D&C 98:44 and Matthew 18:21

[askandanswer]

Matthew 18

21 ¶ Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

 

Doctrine and Covenants 98

44 But if he trespass against thee the fourth time thou shalt not forgive him, but shalt bring these testimonies before the Lord; and they shall not be blotted out until he repent and reward thee four-fold in all things wherewith he has trespassed against thee.

 

Does Matthew 8:21-22 teach that we should be willing to forgive people many, many times and does Doctrine and Covenants 98:44 teach that in some circumstances, or for some actions, we should limit our forgiveness to four occasions? Do these verses teach different things about forgiveness?

[Vort]

I believe that the Matthew account refers to forgiving those who trespass personally against us, as in being unkind or otherwise abusing our mutual brotherhood, while the Doctrine and Covenants account refers to those who seek our destruction or otherwise seek to do great harm against us. Note that the D&C verses do not say that God will fight our fights, or that if we're sufficiently aggrieved, God's might will be with us as we hunt down those who try to destroy us. Rather, it says that, if we have followed the "law of forgiveness" wherein we give them three chances to repent*, we are then justified if we choose to seek a more permanent solution. Note that "justified" does not mean "guaranteed to win".

*Nibley claimed that this ancient "law of threes", I think he called it, or something like that, has been around from the earliest times. He mentioned that it is common in ancient societies and still pops up in both historical and current contexts, such as the Muslim practice of giving a conquered people three chances to convert to Islam before you behead them.

[CV75]

2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

Matthew 18

21 ¶ Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

 

Doctrine and Covenants 98

44 But if he trespass against thee the fourth time thou shalt not forgive him, but shalt bring these testimonies before the Lord; and they shall not be blotted out until he repent and reward thee four-fold in all things wherewith he has trespassed against thee.

 

Does Matthew 8:21-22 teach that we should be willing to forgive people many, many times and does Doctrine and Covenants 98:44 teach that in some circumstances, or for some actions, we should limit our forgiveness to four occasions? Do these verses teach different things about forgiveness?

Matthew 18 is about how we address personal offenses by another individual or group. D&C 98 is about how the Lord’s people address offenses by another nation, kindred, tongue, or people. He commands us to forgive in the first; in the second, He commands us to go battle only after certain conditions are met. And even then, we should have forgiveness in our hearts if not trust by virtue of common sense (forgiveness does not require trust, except in he Lord). Nephi’s killing of Laban is an interesting example of an intermingling of these two principles., wherein an individual defended his nation against an individual’s offense.

So yes, I would say these verses teach about two kinds or expressions of forgiveness, suitable for two circumstances (individual and group).

[Traveler]

18 hours ago, askandanswer said:

Matthew 18

21 ¶ Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

 

Doctrine and Covenants 98

44 But if he trespass against thee the fourth time thou shalt not forgive him, but shalt bring these testimonies before the Lord; and they shall not be blotted out until he repent and reward thee four-fold in all things wherewith he has trespassed against thee.

 

Does Matthew 8:21-22 teach that we should be willing to forgive people many, many times and does Doctrine and Covenants 98:44 teach that in some circumstances, or for some actions, we should limit our forgiveness to four occasions? Do these verses teach different things about forgiveness?

I would add to the previous posts a little more insight to D&C 98 that is given to us by revelation as an introduction to section 98.  We have the means by which we can see regress through the laws of the land:

Quote

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, August 6, 1833. This revelation came in consequence of the persecution upon the Saints in Missouri. Increased settlement of Church members in Missouri troubled some other settlers, who felt threatened by the Saints’ numbers, political and economic influence, and cultural and religious differences. In July 1833, a mob destroyed Church property, tarred and feathered two Church members, and demanded that the Saints leave Jackson County. Although some news of the problems in Missouri had no doubt reached the Prophet in Kirtland (nine hundred miles away), the seriousness of the situation could have been known to him at this date only by revelation.

 

Let us look at the some of the context of the scripture to which you have raised question (concern?).  Especially as it relates to our current situation in the Middle East as war is spreading.  Verses 32-44:

Quote

32 Behold, this is the law I gave unto my servant Nephi, and thy fathers, Joseph, and Jacob, and Isaac, and Abraham, and all mine ancient prophets and apostles.

33 And again, this is the law that I gave unto mine ancients, that they should not go out unto battle against any nation, kindred, tongue, or people, save I, the Lord, commanded them.

34 And if any nation, tongue, or people should proclaim war against them, they should first lift a standard of peace unto that people, nation, or tongue;

35 And if that people did not accept the offering of peace, neither the second nor the third time, they should bring these testimonies before the Lord;

36 Then I, the Lord, would give unto them a commandment, and justify them in going out to battle against that nation, tongue, or people.

37 And I, the Lord, would fight their battles, and their children’s battles, and their children’s children’s, until they had avenged themselves on all their enemies, to the third and fourth generation.

38 Behold, this is an ensample unto all people, saith the Lord your God, for justification before me.

39 And again, verily I say unto you, if after thine enemy has come upon thee the first time, he repent and come unto thee praying thy forgiveness, thou shalt forgive him, and shalt hold it no more as a testimony against thine enemy—

40 And so on unto the second and third time; and as oft as thine enemy repenteth of the trespass wherewith he has trespassed against thee, thou shalt forgive him, until seventy times seven.

41 And if he trespass against thee and repent not the first time, nevertheless thou shalt forgive him.

42 And if he trespass against thee the second time, and repent not, nevertheless thou shalt forgive him.

43 And if he trespass against thee the third time, and repent not, thou shalt also forgive him.

44 But if he trespass against thee the fourth time thou shalt not forgive him, but shalt bring these testimonies before the Lord; and they shall not be blotted out until he repent and reward thee four-fold in all things wherewith he has trespassed against thee.

 

The Traveler

[CV75]

6 hours ago, Traveler said:

I would add to the previous posts a little more insight to D&C 98 that is given to us by revelation as an introduction to section 98.  We have the means by which we can see regress through the laws of the land:

 

Let us look at the some of the context of the scripture to which you have raised question (concern?).  Especially as it relates to our current situation in the Middle East as war is spreading.  Verses 32-44:

 

The Traveler

From the Church's recent statement, "As servants of God, we affirm that He calls upon all of us to love our neighbors as ourselves, and we pray for a peaceful resolution of all conflicts." First Presidency Issues Statement on Middle East Violence (churchofjesuschrist.org)

Using D&C 98 as a template for the laws of the land (are you suggesting this approach for Israel or USA?) would require the state to become an agent of or for the Lord's people. While it may be argued that governments are such agents to the extent their free constitutions protect religious expression and other rights, at what point do the heads of state wait upon God to command their entry into battle?