USNationalist Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 How many here actually think God rigged the casting of lots game to chose mathias to replace judus? If he did- why isn't prayer and lot casting a common practice among churches today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 The lots used in New Testament times were special metallic alloys that responded to the gravitational pull of Kolob, but these metallic lots were removed and hidden in Cumorah to be revealed during the Millenium. That, or I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-train Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 How many here actually think God rigged the casting of lots game to chose mathias to replace judus? If he did- why isn't prayer and lot casting a common practice among churches today?We don't cast lots any more? Did I not get a memo?-a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateHowe Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Guide to the Scriptures: LotsCasting lots is possibly more akin to voting than to a dice game. However, let's assume that Matthias was chosen by a game of pure chance (which I see as unlikely):This would mean that there were so many righteous, spiritually qualified witnesses of Christ who could effectively fill the role of Apostle that some way was needed to narrow the field, and casting lots was a device to narrow the choice to one.I personally think that by saying the Apostles "gave forth their lots," they were essentially giving their votes in a poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowTheWhisp Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I've always understood it to mean they voted and he got the most votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-train Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 The Urim and Thummim operated in the manner of casting lots.1 Samuel 14:41 says:'Therefore Saul said unto the LORD God of Israel, Give a perfect lot. And Saul and Jonathan were taken: but the people escaped.'Scholars of the Septuagint render that verse like this:'And Saul said: Lord, God of Israel, why hast thou not answered thy servant this day? If this iniquity be in me or in Jonathan my son, Lord, God of Israel, give Urim; but if it be in thy people Israel, give Thummim. Then Jonathan and Saul were taken by lot; and the people escaped.'We could speculate that one of the stones was drawn from a bag after such a prayer, or that one of them illuminated or gave some sort of sign. Regardless, it is evident that through some selection of one or the other, God communicated with man. It is further evident that KJV translators called the process 'casting lots'.Whether the apostles used a Urim and Thummim or not is unknown, but drawing randomly at straws or lots of some sort would not be without precedent.In Joshua 18 & 19, lots were cast to reveal the lands of inheritance of the various tribes of Israel. Also, as demonstrated in Lev. 16, lots were cast in determining which beast was the scapegoat or the sacrificial lamb on the day of Atonement. The crew of the ship also cast lots to determine what caused the tempest that troubled them and it fell on Jonah and they cast him into the sea. There are actually many other places where the will of the LORD is determined by lot in the scriptures if you look around.-a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I'm still partial to the Kolob-centric metallic alloy theory. Seriously though, for an interesting take on the Urim and Thummim, read "The Alchemist" by Paulo Coehlo. Its also just a really good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNationalist Posted January 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 crimson- I am also partial to your kolob thing theory. Very insightful, heh. I suppose it could have been a voting thing, that would make sense. I had just assumed it was an area of chance because the process had the same name as the one in which the roman soldiers used to split Christs clothing. I'll have to find one of those people that knows the greek and find out which kind of lot it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowTheWhisp Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I suppose it would make a significant difference if 'lots' was used to translate different words. The OT would of course not have been written in the same language as the NT either so that immediately throws a spanner in the works.I shall look out for 'The Alchemist' - sounds like it could be an interesting read.The gravitational pull of Kolob, now there's a thought. Maybe if the moon can be responsible for the tides Kolob could be responsible for a whole lot more than we ever imagine! I wonder if Russell Grant should be notified. ( little joke for the Brits amongst us) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I ain't British, but I lived in England for a year and I know who Russel Grant is. Maybe he can use my Kolob theory if I can have his residence in Middlesex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowTheWhisp Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I've never seen it but I imagine it's quite posh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Funny thing is, I think I remember what "posh" stands for: Port Out Starboard Home Right? I still remember some people from my ward in Ipswich asking me at a ward party if I wanted some lemonade, and when I said "yes," getting Sprite, hahahaha. Good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WANDERER Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 · Hidden Hidden In the spirit of being helpful, LOL, there's fleece as another option. But it requires a sheep. Link to comment
WillowTheWhisp Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Now you have thoroughly confused me there Wanderer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Steuss Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 The lots used in New Testament times were special metallic alloys that responded to the gravitational pull of Kolob, but these metallic lots were removed and hidden in Cumorah to be revealed during the Millenium.That, or I don't know.Brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WANDERER Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 · Hidden Hidden Using a fleece was an Old Testament form of seeking God's will (other than the officially used lots). Casting lots and so on today...possibly not a good idea to test God on a regular basis...but I can see that when people may be divisive on an issue that avoiding violence might be a good idea. Prayer would be the first port of call I assume. Link to comment
Dr T Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 "ro, sham, bo" for God's divine will... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Mormon Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I vote for "Rock, Paper, Scissors". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_jason Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I've never seen it but I imagine it's quite posh.Posh is hot. That David Beckham is a lucky sonofagun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Mormon Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyB Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Trouble with using fleeces is I'm never quite sure if the approved method is wet fleece and dry ground or dry fleece and wet ground, and do the Gideons have the fleece as their symbols or at least a sheep as a mascot. Posh maybe posh but Beck's just a spiv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Um, Willow and I weren't talking about pop singers. From what I remember, "posh" is an acronym that applies to wealthy lifestyles or expensive possessions. I read that when the British would take a ship for a vacation down the western coast of Africa for example, the most expensive cabins were those whose windows faced Africa so the passenger could get a good view. Well when sailing south, those cabins would be on the port side of the ship; sailing north back to England, the cabins facing Africa would be on the starboard side of the ship. Hence, "Port out, starboard home" came to refer to anyone who was wealthy enough to afford to pay for cabins that were on the port side of the ship going out, and on the starboard side coming home. Posh. Anyone from England wanna correct that if its wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_jason Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Um, Willow and I weren't talking about pop singers.Wow. Someone has a hard time with sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 BTW, just because the Scriptures tell us that the people did something, does not mean that God necessarily approved of what they did. It may well be that they did literally cast lots (game of chance). The fact that the practice never carried on would suggest that it was not something God meant to institute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Yeah the_jason, I can't stand sarcasm because I'm so incapable of handling it and it's always been a big problem for me so you're sooooo right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.