God has a wife in heaven???

[WillowTheWhisp]

Adding to that, we know that God is everywhere at all times.

Is that actually scriptural?

[Hemidakota]

In the other forum someone said that there is a mother who is married to God the father-wife.They have spirit children.What is the name of the mother and wife of God the Father??? The difference between LDS and NON_lds is the nature of God.In LDS,God the Father is flesh and bones.Non -Lds,God the father is a spirit-Trinity. Did Joseph Smith say that God was a man-motral first who become a God??? Both LDS and non-LDS believe Mary was born a virgin.

ONLY a handful ever seen HER in person and could describe HER beauty.

[Blackmarch]

When God told us that we need to "conform to the image" of Jesus Christ, and when Jesus said that God is spirit and must be worshiped in spirit... wouldn't it be more logical to conclude that we are made in the image of God by having "moral character", emotions, ability to use logic. We were created a thinking, loving being as God is, but not necessarily looking like Him. That seems more Biblical to me. What do you guys think?

I don't recall the bible saying that we need to conform to it but that we have to be like him.

It also commands us to be perfect, and when it says we are made in the image of God I can't find reason to believe that just means just only in morality and intelligence (altho that is certainly part of it) but also the vessel as well, wherein such attributes may dwell within and gain root and grow.

To be frank I think that humanity is the pale, (extremely) poor copy/mirror image of God..

Yes God is spirit.. Altho I think either the term spirit is either very poor or vague definition in this case... and with God it's more than just being, or meaning entity or lifeforce, but actually has what we could call physical attributes (altho that might not be the most accurate way of showing it either).

one of the interesting things God told joseph smith is that before him all things are spirit.

[Hemidakota]

Layer upon layer upon layer of images we truly are...

[JohnOF123]

Is that actually scriptural?

There are several passages such as Psalm 139:7-13

(...If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea...)

That's part of it. If you need some more references, let me know. God is not only omnipresent but also omnipotent and omniscient.

I don't recall the bible saying that we need to conform to it [Jesus's image] but that we have to be like him.

Romans 8:29

What was Jesus, then? Was he not flesh and bone.. and not God also in mainstream Christian theology? Why then did Christs physical body ascend with him into Heaven?

I see your point. Jesus has two natures: human and divine (Col. 2:9 Phil. 2:5-8). But Biblically, God the Father does not. But I agree with you that matter can exist in heaven.

John 4:24, "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Luke 24:39, “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.

So if God the Father does not have a body of flesh, then what about the God in the OT that people saw?

Now in Exodus 24:9-11, 74 people saw the God of Israel and under his feet there was a pavement of sapphire, etc.... God was seen in human form in the OT, right?

But Jesus said in John 6:46 that no one has ever seen the Father.

So, if God was being seen in the OT, but it was not the Father, then who was it?

(Pre-incarnate Christ)

In 1 Timothy 6:16-17 it says that God dwells in unapproachable light whom no man has seen, nor CAN see. I have to believe the Word.

[carlimac]

"This glorious truth of celestial parentage, including specifically both a father and a mother, is heralded forth by song in one of the greatest of Latter-day saint hymns, O My Father by Eliza R. Snow, written in 1843, during the lifetime of the prophet, includes this teaching:

In the heavens are parents single?

No; the thought makes reason stare!

Truth is reason, truth eternal,

Tells me I've a Mother there.

"

This is a wonderful expression. How I would love to know and be able to communicate with mother in heaven. But I read a book one time that said Eliza Snow wasn't talking about a divine mother when she wrote those words, but about her own mother who had passed away. Can't remember who it was written by but it was one of her close family members or friends.

I haven't read through all the posts so don't know if this was addressed already.

[bmy-]

"This glorious truth of celestial parentage, including specifically both a father and a mother, is heralded forth by song in one of the greatest of Latter-day saint hymns, O My Father by Eliza R. Snow, written in 1843, during the lifetime of the prophet, includes this teaching:

In the heavens are parents single?

No; the thought makes reason stare!

Truth is reason, truth eternal,

Tells me I've a Mother there.

"

This is a wonderful expression. How I would love to know and be able to communicate with mother in heaven. But I read a book one time that said Eliza Snow wasn't talking about a divine mother when she wrote those words, but about her own mother who had passed away. Can't remember who it was written by but it was one of her close family members or friends.

I haven't read through all the posts so don't know if this was addressed already.

It has been. Check Hemis posts.

[jwomack]

The only reason LDS believe in a heavenly mother, is that it makes sense. We're created in God's image. We're literally spirit children. That means we're the same species. Children grow up to look like their parents, and this planet has boys and girls both running around on it. We believe gender is important, and eternal.

Everything else is just speculation - we don't have any clarifying revelation or scripture on the matter.

LM

At the very foundation of our beliefs is that we have a living prophet. We believe that Joseph smith was the first modern prophet and that we have had a living prophet and 12 apostles since that time. They have the ability to recieve revelation just as the prophets of old. One of the greatest peices of modern revelation is called The Family: A Proclamation To The World. The second paragraph of this revelation says:

"ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose." (emphasis added)

This is one source of Modern Revelation that reveals to the world that we have Heavenly Parents, a mother and a father.

[HiJolly]

Well, I have enjoyed reading through these 14 pages... And I see that no one answered the OP's question on the name of Heavenly Mother. Heh. Read on.

There is only one recorded vision that I know of that speaks of HM enthroned with HF. It was a vision recorded decades after the fact, by Z. Coltrin:

19 April 1834

This vision was given while Joseph Smith was travelling from Kirtland to New Portage, Ohio, with Zebedee Coltrin and either Sidney Rigdon or Oliver Cowdery (or possibly both).

Though not reported in the _History of the Church_ (2:50), where mention was made of the New Portage trip, Zebedee Coltrin gave several accounts of this vision later in his life, one of which was recorded under the date 3 October 1883 in the Salt Lake School of the Prophets minutes:

"Once after returning from a mission, he [Coltrin] met Bro. Joseph in Kirtland, who asked him if he did not wish to go with him to a conference at New Portage. The party consisted of Prests.

Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Oliver Cowdry [sic] and myself [Coltrin]. Next morning at New Portage, he [Coltrin] noticed that Joseph seemed to have a far off look in his eyes, or was looking at a distance, and presently he, Joseph, stepped between Brothers Cowdry [sic], and Coltrin and taking them by the arm, said, "lets take a walk." They went to a place where there was beautiful grass, and grapevines and swampbeech interlaced. President Joseph Smith than [sic] said, "Let us pray." They all three prayed in turn-- Joseph, Oliver, and Zebedee.

Brother Joseph than [sic] said, "now brethren [sic] we will see some visions." Joseph lay down on the ground on his back and stretched out his arms and the two brethren lay on them. The heavens gradually opened, and they saw a golden throne, on a circular foundation, something like a light house, and on the throne were two aged personages, having white hair, and clothed in white garments. They were the two most beautiful and perfect specimens of mankind he ever saw. Joseph said, They are our first parents, Adam and Eve. Adam was a large broadshouldered man, and Eve as a woman, was large in proportion." [note 24]

Another version of this vision was recorded by Abraham H. Cannon in his journal under the date 25 August 1890:

"Pres. Petersen told of an incident which he had often heard Zebedee Coltrin relate. One day the Prophet Joseph Smith asked him [Zebedee Coltrin] and Sidney Rigdon to accompany him into the woods to pray. When they had reached a secluded spot Joseph laid down on his back and stretched out his arms. He told the brethren to lie one on each arm and then shut their eyes.

After they had prayed he told them to open their eyes. They did so and they saw a brilliant light surrounding a pedestal which seemed to rest on the ground. They closed their eyes and again prayed. They then saw, on opening them, the Father seated upon a throne; they prayed again and on looking saw the Mother also; after praying and looking the fourth time they saw the Savior added to the group. He had auburn brown, rather long, wavy hair and appeared quite young."

[note 25]

This may be the first recorded vision of the Heavenly Mother in Mormonism. In the first account she is identified as "Eve". In the second account she is identified as "the Mother" and is given status with the "Father" and the "Son." This vision raises some theological questions about the nature and number of the Godhead which are beyond the scope of this essay, but the point here is that the Mother is mentioned in conjunction and on an equal footing with the Father and the Son. [note 26]

- Toscano, Margaret Merrill. "Put on your strength O daughters of Zion:

Claiming priesthood and knowing the Mother." In Maxine Hanks (ed.),

_Women and Authority: Re-emerging Mormon Feminism_ (Salt Lake City:

Signature Books, 1992), 411-437 (this excerpt 431-432).

Notes:

24. Located in archives, Historical Department, Church of Jesus Christ

of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City.

Well, there it is.

HiJolly

[bytebear]

Wasn't Margaret Toscano excommunicated for teaching this? Hmmm....

[HiJolly]

Wasn't Margaret Toscano excommunicated for teaching this? Hmmm....

She and her husband were both ex'd. The reasons have not been made public by the Church. I do believe it had to do with feminist themes in at least her case.

That should not color your reading of the text as written by Coltrin. She didn't alter that.

HiJolly

[austinterry]

a-train - with all due respect.. the verse Acts17:29 does not state that we are literally the offspring of God..

It states:

"28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

by this I think it means "poetically", or figuratively, we are God's offspring, but the verse immediatly following that states :

"29 Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill"

I take these verses to mean, that we are God's Children, but he is not like us in the flesh and we as his Children, should be well aware of this.

When I read these verses in the Bible it leads me to believe that the prophets and apostles were talking about idol worshiping. Lets think about who their audiences are. They are preaching to pagans, people who worship the engraven image (gold, silver, and stone images) These people were woshipping objects made by their own hands and not God. Because God does not dwell in such objects, neither is he made of them. The prophets are trying to steer the pagans away from idol worship. the book of Isiah and Ezekial are great examples of this teaching of the prophets. therefore, i take the above quoted verses to mean just that.. don't worship idols.

[Cassiopeia]

I find it interesting that mankind still uses our words to describe something heavenly. Would a female deity such as a Heavenly Mother be Heavenly Father's wife? Wife? That is such an earthly term.

If we are to believe in such a concept that we have divine parents, it is reasonable to conclude that they are partners in creation. Yet, what is that relationship between them? We are confined to limited understanding as it was taught in the early days of my membership that nothing is revealed about a Heavenly Mother as she is so sacred to the Father that He would not reveal more.

Those were some 33 years ago when I first heard that excuse. Is there proof that She exists? Is it important that there is? One only needs to study ancient religions to know that existence of the feminine deity existed long before Judaism or Christianity. Many pagan religions worship the God and the Goddess. Threads of the truth are revealed here and there, yet nothing is substantiated in fact, and neither is there sufficient proof of a male deity that can be found.

It's called belief, faith and worship.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Cassiopeia

[Blackmarch]

I find it interesting that mankind still uses our words to describe something heavenly. Would a female deity such as a Heavenly Mother be Heavenly Father's wife? Wife? That is such an earthly term.

If we are to believe in such a concept that we have divine parents, it is reasonable to conclude that they are partners in creation. Yet, what is that relationship between them? We are confined to limited understanding as it was taught in the early days of my membership that nothing is revealed about a Heavenly Mother as she is so sacred to the Father that He would not reveal more.

Those were some 33 years ago when I first heard that excuse. Is there proof that She exists? Is it important that there is? One only needs to study ancient religions to know that existence of the feminine deity existed long before Judaism or Christianity. Many pagan religions worship the God and the Goddess. Threads of the truth are revealed here and there, yet nothing is substantiated in fact, and neither is there sufficient proof of a male deity that can be found.

It's called belief, faith and worship.

Hey hey!!! Good to see ya Cassi!

Excellent post by the way :)

I think word wife works because for most of the time our sight and understanding are limited to being earthly.. and so must suffice for the moment. But That's not to say that it means every little thing that we see in the term "wife".

[Cassiopeia]

Hey hey!!! Good to see ya Cassi!

Excellent post by the way :)

I think word wife works because for most of the time our sight and understanding are limited to being earthly.. and so must suffice for the moment. But That's not to say that it means every little thing that we see in the term "wife".

Of course we can only speculate. Which has not been a great thing to do in my experience but for the sake of this discussion, I will venture out to say that I think Heavenly Mother is actually a Goddess, equal in stature and ability to our Father.

[Blackmarch]

Of course we can only speculate. Which has not been a great thing to do in my experience but for the sake of this discussion, I will venture out to say that I think Heavenly Mother is actually a Goddess, equal in stature and ability to our Father.

I would hope so.

[Blake]

I have read some of the discussion on this thread and appreciate all the thoughtful comments and questions that have been submitted. This is a complex question. I had some ideas I thought I might add to the discussion.

1. I am a convert to the LDS church, having become a Christian several years earlier. The whole idea of an anthropomorphic God was strange to me at first and I initially struggled with many doctrines that are based on that principle (man becoming divine, God having a female companion, etc). What resolved it for me was simply taking the Bible on face value when it says we are children of God. I do not think the Lord would use a term like that in a purely metaphorical sense. It is such a loaded concept, that I don't believe a perfect God would use a term like this if he did not mean it literally. The corporeal nature of God is an essential doctrine upon which much of mormonism hangs. If God is a being of flesh and spirit combined, then believing that man is his literal offspring and that there is Mother in heaven is not theologically difficult. The fundamental problem lies in the question of whether God is a corporeal being, or a unversal spirit.

2. It always seemed to me that the definition of God being a universal spirit without body, parts or passions was not well-supported in the Bible. Saying "God is a spirit", as the bible does, does not preclude him from also having a body. Man is also a spirit at his core, but possesses a body as well. The teaching about a God who is omnipresent as a universal spirit seems to me to stem from the Nicene Creed, wherein God is described as a mystical and unknowable Trinity, a sort of Universal Spirit with three principle hypostases or avatars: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. When I as a Christian tried to contemplate this conception, I found it difficult to reconcile with my understanding. First, when Christ was baptised the Father spoke from Heaven, Christ was in the Water, and the Holy Spirit came down in visible form, like a dove. Clearly there were three beings here. Also in Gethsemane Christ learly distinguished between His own will and the Will of the Father saying:

Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. Luke 22:42

This quote leads me to believe that Christ and the Father have distinct wills, yet Christ always chooses to do his Father's will. To me, having separate wills testifies that they are separate beings. Second, The Nicene Council was convened hundreds of years after the death of the last apostle, after Christianity had fragmented. Even while the apostles were alive, they continually battled with the teachings of the Gnostics, who presented a spirituality that married Judeo-christian doctrines with concepts from outside of the judeo-christian framework, in particular the concepts of transcendancy and divinity within. I knew enough about Eastern religions to know that these concepts are found in the religions of India and the far east. Judaism had always taught that God was a personage, so corporeal that the old testament records:

And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.- Exodus 33:11

The East taught that God is a unviersal spiritual energy or essence that is present in all things. Eastern religions use this basis to encourage people to see themselves as avatars of a single God-essence, while Judaism taught the separateness of God and his creation. I wonder if it is possible that the Transcendental God described in the Nicene Creed owes its formulation to the influence of Eastern Thought, via the Gnostics and the Greek philosophers. Nevertheless, I am impressed with the outcome of the Nicene Council in that the Gnostic scriptures themselves were excluded from the canon. In spite of what my beliefs lead me to conclude were errors of interpretation, I am convinced that God definitely was watching over the council and helping guide the choices that were made there. The canon of scripture that was adopted was remarkably pure in its doctrinal content and its presentation of Christ as the unique Savior of mankind and the only Way to the Father. Centuries of faithful christians were blessed immensely by this as are Christians today including LDS.

3. I believe that man resists the notion that he is a literal child of a corporeal God primarily because man appears so sinful and fallen. But if we allow the atonement of Jesus Christ to be powerful enough to overcome the effects of sin for all His repentant and humble followers, then it is not difficult to conceive that in the course of eternity, a disciple of Christ could become so purified and so holy, that he or she could be ready to be entrusted with the mantle of Divine Parenthood and Governance, which is essentially what makes God who He is.

4. Once I could conceive God the Father being a perfect, but very corporeal being, distinct from Christ and the Holy Ghost, then believing that he is married and has literal children was not difficult for me.

This represents my own thought process of how I came to an understanding of these doctrines. I hope it might be useful to someone. I hope noone who disagrees with me will take offense, as it is not my intent to discredit anyone's beliefs. I have immense respect for people of faith and especially for other christians, who I consider brothers and sisters in the faith of Christ.

[Hemidakota]

Excellence posting…

Now, to receive such knowledge requires more than our works as the proof to receive such precious pearl as knowledge. As you already noted in your posting of the various Jewry ordained priests of the past, with the distortion of the true gospel was a major issue. One of which that was often preach against, “…our works will save us.” Yet, it was told, they lack faith. As even Apostle James, stated, “…works without faith is dead.”

From that time until today, even in the latter-day church, I still see evidence of members who still think, works will get me into heaven [meaning: the highest state of the Celestial Kingdom]. What is missing is the application of faith with works. We still teach to this very day, it still requires faith and works combined. If we can just apply as Alma the Younger, the Brother of Jared, even that of Joseph Smith, being the same par level in order to move past our fundamental beliefs, that we can we receive the pure knowledge of knowing our Heavenly Parents. If we just follow the pattern that our beloved Savior gave to the Prophet Joseph Smith, within the D&C, we can achieve a lot more today and thus receive, greater doctrines that as not been taught openly to all members of the church.

We are living in a best of times, with those that were only called in the latter-days, being filled with Holy Ghost, and surrounded by technology that supports our effort in receiving greater knowledge.

I still have hope and faith, that we can achieve more than those of the past…

Edited May 6, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Blake]

Thank you for the positive feedback. I wish to clarify that I was not implying that anyone should seek out knowledge of mysteries beyond the doctrine as revealed through the prophet. My whole focus was on reaching a state of acceptance of doctrines that have already been revealed. The "Mother in Heaven" doctrine, while not clearly established by ancient scripture, has nevertheless been taught in the church since the time of Joseph Smith with full approval by the Prophet and was reaffirmed in the Proclamation on the Family. Even the book "Gospel Principles" which is an approved textbook of LDS doctrine asserts that we are born of Heavenly Parents. So for me, this doctrine is not something unrevealed that I gained through personal revelation, rather it is a standard church doctrine that I gained a testimony of through the process I outlined in my previous post.

Thank you. My only desire here was to clarify my process of conversion on these matters and how I regard this teaching.

Blake

[futurus75]

Yes, God the Father has flesh and bones. He lived a mortal life just like Jesus and rose to immortality and eternal life just as Jesus did. After having done this, He begat countless spiritual children. He ultimately brought these children to a grand council in heaven.

In the grand council, God the Father outlined important future possibilities and His Plan for His spirit children. He told us that He would create an earth and we would go there and be tested to see if we will do His will.

The earth was ultimately created and the spirit children of God the Father obtain physical bodies as they are born here on the earth. Our spiritual existance with God before our birth is called by LDS folks: the premortal existance or the antemortal existance.

We know that our spiritual birth in our premortal existance was brought forth by a mother. That is about all we know about this mother. We know no name for her. We also know that the spiritual body we obtained in our birth into the premortal realm is an item of substance. The spirit body is material, but it is material made up of matter that is finer or purer than anything discernable with the naked eye.

We do not know the actual process whereby our heavenly mother brought forth our spirit body. It is possible that the process could be very similar to the process whereby the physical body is formed, but it is just as possible that the process is entirely different. We simply don't know.

All that we do know is that this spirit body was in some manner given to us by our Heavenly Father through some virtue or action of our heavenly mother.

-a-train

We are all wives of God because His Personal Wife is Everything to Him. Amen? Right Hunny? Yes Love, Amen.

Everything is One and one is Everything. Twin Flames. :)

[john doe]

We are all wives of God because His Personal Wife is Everything to Him. Amen? Right Hunny? Yes Love, Amen.

Everything is One and one is Everything. Twin Flames. :)

Huh? Please explain, and try to use small words.........

[Hemidakota]

. So for me, this doctrine is not something unrevealed that I gained through personal revelation, rather it is a standard church doctrine that I gained a testimony of through the process I outlined in my previous post.

Blake

Excellence…a few here received the same…it is not a hard doctrine to ‘swallow’ when we apply ourselves. As it is no harder to receive a personal revelation on the location on where our Heavenly Parents resides.

We can learn from our beloved prophet Joseph Smith, in applying the same process in receiving personal revelation.

[Guest CedarCityCougar]

God has both parts..........

Man comes from God-----Women comes from Man, that would leave one with the conclusion that God has both attributes of Masculine and Feminine.

Edited May 8, 2010 by CedarCityCougar

[WillowTheWhisp]

Where do you get such teaching from CedarCityCougar? I know of no Christian denomination which teaches that.

[Elgama]

God has both parts..........

Man comes from God-----Women comes from Man, that would leave one with the conclusion that God has both attributes of Masculine and Feminine.

well given if we do have a Heavenly Mother she is part of the Godhead or God that would be true, but she isn't Heavenly Father either. I am striving to become one with my Husband and God but I will never be my husband