Trump just won the election

[LDSGator]

26 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

As opposed to when I talk with you, and one of us always ends up fleeing in tears.

You punched me in the face last time you saw me. 

[JohnsonJones]

 

16 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I vote for Trump not because of his personal immorality.  I vote for Trump because he is less of a threat to the Constitution than any prominent Democrat that I've ever heard speak.

Let's take a look at the Bill of Rights:

Who is for shutting down free speech?  Democrats.(1A)
Who is for shutting down religious observances and public demonstrations?  Democrats. (1A)
Who is for shutting down opposing view points in the press?  Democrats. (1A)
Who is for getting rid of guns in civilian hands?  Democrats. (2A)
Who plotted to gain search warrants with no probable cause and frame a former President?  Dems (4A)
Who just denied a neutral jury in some very publicly  trials?  Democrats.(5&6A)
Who denied Trump the right to witnesses in his defense?  Democrats. (6A)
Who denied the 8th Amendment to the Jan 6thers?  Democrats.
Who denied Texas the 10th Amendment just a year ago?  Democrats.
BONUS ROUND: Who's for abolishing the Electoral College?  Democrats.
Who wants to secure our national sovereignty?  NOT Democrats.

Hmm, hard to parse it doesn't want me to parse it into individuals sentences...but there are some interesting observations that go counter to your statements...

#1 - Though they do it under the auspices of protecting children and limiting pornography, the Republicans and the state governments they control actually have been the ones who have been doing actual book banning and censorship recently.  They've done actual book banning and actual censorship of what is considered free speech (under the guise of requiring validation to view pornography sites they have basically censored those sites from the public). 

Is this good or bad?  That's not the question that is being asked or stated here.  YOU said that the Democrats were shutting down free speech...when in fact...it's the Republicans that have been literally by every definition of the book, shutting down and doing away with free speech in a very real sense that the rest of the world has observed, and notices is currently occurring in the US.  It's been compared to a few other regimes you may recognize, that have ALSO done similar actions such as the U.S.S.R., Iran, Communist China...and of all the lovely places...North Korea.  Great places for the Republicans to be compared to by the world as they ban books and censor free speech in the various ways they have passed legislation in their governments.

I'm not passing judgement on whether this is right or wrong, or good or evil, but observing that the Republicans actually have been FAR more involved with this Banning in a very literal way recently.

#2 - Which religious observations are you noting?  You mean Trump's vocal accusations against Muslims in the US?  Or perhaps you are referring to some of his advisors which are deeply antisemitic?  Or perhaps you are referring to the current Palestinian sympathizers which are campaigning against the Democrats  due to the Democrats support of Israel?  Perhaps you are referring to the Neo-Nazi's that attend Trumps rallies which are deeply antisemitic in their views?  Or perhaps it is the membership of the supporting KKK that attend  Trumps rallies which tend to be both Anti-Catholic and Antisemitic (and to top it off...ironically...in some cases...Anti-Mormon)?

It's an interesting thing when one points these things out...only to see that their side of the equation is equally as guilty...just in a different manner and a different way.

#4 - Search warrants?  I would actually agree with you in part there...in regards to what I saw as a political ploy in New York.  However, anyone who's ever had a clearance with a government should be rightly offended by what Trump did with the classified documents.  Anyone who's ever had to deal with that stuff knows they'd be in prison yesterday if they had done the same thing.  It's atrocious that Trump has gotten a pass where almost every serviceman who ever did anything like that ended up imprisoned or pursued by the FBI, and the unequal punishments that  Trump has had in comparison to those who also had to deal with these things...is obnoxious.  People point to Biden (who had a few documents) but IGNORE the massive amounts that Trump had.  Signs also point towards Trump actually possibly SELLING national secrets to the Saudi's AND the Russians....

That by itself should be something that alarms ANY ONE who loves freedom.

#5 - Excessive punishments against those who attacked and ransacked our Capital on January 6th.  I take it you haven't done much jail time.  I haven't seen excessive punishments or fines towards them.  In fact, I'd say they've been lite on most of them.  I suppose this is more a matter of opinion that we will differ upon rather than something we will agree upon.  However, I'd say that overall, the application of law has been done in relation to them and they have had their day in court for the most part, when the trials have come about.  If you have a problem with these cases and the punishments, maybe you sympathize more with those who dislike the police than those who believe in the current US justice system. 

There are various other problems with your statements, but those are probably the most glaring ones.  I could just spout out a list (and a much longer one at that) like you did without any commentary on how such a thing was accomplished or done...but I've already written a lot and that's with VERY short summations of a few of the topics you mention. 

16 hours ago, Carborendum said:

But if that's not enough, and you want to stand on your high horse on sexual immorality, then what about Biden and his "handsiness" with little girls?  You give him a pass on that?  The media and all the legal system certainly did.  So, why not you too?

What about the fact that Kamala prostituted herself to get ahead in the government?  She gets a pass too?

What's sauce for the goose is fit for the gander.  If you have any problems with Trump, it should be worse with BOTH Biden and Kamala.

I'm at least trying to be generous and forgive them all for that as far as my vote goes.  But I cannot sacrifice my vote for people who want to destroy the Constitution.

I think you make a mistake (easy to make when a right leaning independent is considered a flaming liberal on this forum) that I'm a democrat or liberal.  I am not.

You are not mistaken that I was far more favorable to Biden.

I don't think you know anything about what my thoughts regarding Kamala Harris are...you assume FAR too much.

 

Edit: And for now, I think I will keep my stance on her quiet overall.  I WILL say that how I view Trump as being immoral is not just based on his immorality in regards to his marriages and infidelity, but far more than that, inclusive of his ability to be honest, have integrity, or even be trustworthy...none of which he qualifies in having from what I've seen. 

I've already made a prediction that he will either win or seize the presidency this next term...as well as other things in regards to that.  We can hope I am wrong, but I think there's a strong probability that I am right as well.  It will become even more alarming if David Bednar becomes the Prophet in the next few years if Trump becomes president as the cornerstones of David (as in, the David of Prophecy who will be in the last days) and an Anti-Christ would be laid at that point, leaving Jerusalem to be having a siege, the temple to be built, and two prophets to be killed as the next things on the list. 

Edited October 12, 2024 by JohnsonJones

[NeuroTypical]

Just a reminder to everyone about the site rules, agreed to by everyone in order to post here:

3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated.

4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post.

[LDSGator]

5 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

 

Hmm, hard to parse it doesn't want me to parse it into individuals sentences...but there are some interesting observations that go counter to your statements...

#1 - Though they do it under the auspices of protecting children and limiting pornography, the Republicans and the state governments they control actually have been the ones who have been doing actual book banning and censorship recently.  They've done actual book banning and actual censorship of what is considered free speech (under the guise of requiring validation to view pornography sites they have basically censored those sites from the public). 

Is this good or bad?  That's not the question that is being asked or stated here.  YOU said that the Democrats were shutting down free speech...when in fact...it's the Republicans that have been literally by every definition of the book, shutting down and doing away with free speech in a very real sense that the rest of the world has observed, and notices is currently occurring in the US.  It's been compared to a few other regimes you may recognize, that have ALSO done similar actions such as the U.S.S.R., Iran, Communist China...and of all the lovely places...North Korea.  Great places for the Republicans to be compared to by the world as they ban books and censor free speech in the various ways they have passed legislation in their governments.

I'm not passing judgement on whether this is right or wrong, or good or evil, but observing that the Republicans actually have been FAR more involved with this Banning in a very literal way recently.

#2 - Which religious observations are you noting?  You mean Trump's vocal accusations against Muslims in the US?  Or perhaps you are referring to some of his advisors which are deeply antisemitic?  Or perhaps you are referring to the current Palestinian sympathizers which are campaigning against the Democrats  due to the Democrats support of Israel?  Perhaps you are referring to the Neo-Nazi's that attend Trumps rallies which are deeply antisemitic in their views?  Or perhaps it is the membership of the supporting KKK that attend  Trumps rallies which tend to be both Anti-Catholic and Antisemitic (and to top it off...ironically...in some cases...Anti-Mormon)?

It's an interesting thing when one points these things out...only to see that their side of the equation is equally as guilty...just in a different manner and a different way.

#4 - Search warrants?  I would actually agree with you in part there...in regards to what I saw as a political ploy in New York.  However, anyone who's ever had a clearance with a government should be rightly offended by what Trump did with the classified documents.  Anyone who's ever had to deal with that stuff knows they'd be in prison yesterday if they had done the same thing.  It's atrocious that Trump has gotten a pass where almost every serviceman who ever did anything like that ended up imprisoned or pursued by the FBI, and the unequal punishments that  Trump has had in comparison to those who also had to deal with these things...is obnoxious.  People point to Biden (who had a few documents) but IGNORE the massive amounts that Trump had.  Signs also point towards Trump actually possibly SELLING national secrets to the Saudi's AND the Russians....

That by itself should be something that alarms ANY ONE who loves freedom.

#5 - Excessive punishments against those who attacked and ransacked our Capital on January 6th.  I take it you haven't done much jail time.  I haven't seen excessive punishments or fines towards them.  In fact, I'd say they've been lite on most of them.  I suppose this is more a matter of opinion that we will differ upon rather than something we will agree upon.  However, I'd say that overall, the application of law has been done in relation to them and they have had their day in court for the most part, when the trials have come about.  If you have a problem with these cases and the punishments, maybe you sympathize more with those who dislike the police than those who believe in the current US justice system. 

There are various other problems with your statements, but those are probably the most glaring ones.  I could just spout out a list (and a much longer one at that) like you did without any commentary on how such a thing was accomplished or done...but I've already written a lot and that's with VERY short summations of a few of the topics you mention. 

I think you make a mistake (easy to make when a right leaning independent is considered a flaming liberal on this forum) that I'm a democrat or liberal.  I am not.

You are not mistaken that I was far more favorable to Biden.

I don't think you know anything about what my thoughts regarding Kamala Harris are...you assume FAR too much.

 

Edit: And for now, I think I will keep my stance on her quiet overall.  I WILL say that how I view Trump as being immoral is not just based on his immorality in regards to his marriages and infidelity, but far more than that, inclusive of his ability to be honest, have integrity, or even be trustworthy...none of which he qualifies in having from what I've seen. 

I've already made a prediction that he will either win or seize the presidency this next term...as well as other things in regards to that.  We can hope I am wrong, but I think there's a strong probability that I am right as well.  It will become even more alarming if David Bednar becomes the Prophet in the next few years if Trump becomes president as the cornerstones of David (as in, the David of Prophecy who will be in the last days) and an Anti-Christ would be laid at that point, leaving Jerusalem to be having a siege, the temple to be built, and two prophets to be killed as the next things on the list. 

JJ, even when I disagree with you I always love your posts. 

[LDSGator]

On 10/12/2024 at 7:35 AM, JohnsonJones said:

I think you make a mistake (easy to make when a right leaning independent is considered a flaming liberal on this forum) that I'm a democrat or liberal.  I am not.

Welcome to the club, though this forum is by far one of the best I’ve encountered in terms of honest and fair debate.

I’m the same way @JohnsonJones. I was a right wing conservative in college because I was surrounded by liberals, so it all depends on perspective.  
 

Allow me to dust off an old chestnut. 
 

 

Edited October 14, 2024 by LDSGator

[NeuroTypical]

30 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I see your bet and call:

[Phoenix_person]

7 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Welcome to the club, though this forum is by far one of the best I’ve encountered in terms of honest and fair debate.

I’m the same way @JohnsonJones. I was a right wing conservative in college because I was surrounded by liberals, so it all depends on perspective.  
 

Allow me to dust off an old chestnut. 
 

 

And now some conservatives are engaging in the funniest fit of irony I've ever seen.

[LDSGator]

12 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

And now some conservatives are engaging in the funniest fit of irony I've ever seen.

I’m old enough to remember when the hard left blamed Bush for Katrina! 

[NeuroTypical]

13 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

And now some conservatives are engaging in the funniest fit of irony I've ever seen.

Yeah, I run into folks like that.  I suppose I can't really gatekeep the title "conservative" to keep out teh idjits.   Just know that most of us are about as proud of them as the left is of the poor college idiots that try to debate Charlie Kirk, or the OnlyFans/stripping defenders at @Whatever studios.  

 

 

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

I’m old enough to remember when the hard left blamed Bush for Katrina! 

Nah, the left has always been civil and truthful.  

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Nah, the left has always been civil and truthful.  

Yup. 

[Phoenix_person]

3 hours ago, LDSGator said:

I’m old enough to remember when the hard left blamed Bush for Katrina! 

I remember Bush taking a lot of heat for the response, but not the hurricane itself. I remember Pat Robertson blaming it on the gays.

[LDSGator]

17 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

I remember Bush taking a lot of heat for the response, but not the hurricane itself.

I remember celebrities and really nasty leftists saying he hated black people and caused the levee to burst. Charming.

 

19 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

remember Pat Robertson blaming it on the gays.

I remember that too. Asinine, but expected. Also abnormally cruel to the Christians who lost everything to Katrina as well. 

[LDSGator]

The hurricane issue is actually a real problem for one of my really devout neighbors. Getting slammed with destruction after praying for days that it’ll pass then watching your agnostic friends suffer virtually no damage has tested their faith.
 

It’s heartbreaking to watch, actually.  Logically you can explain to them that the Lord doesn’t work that way, but emotionally it’s quite hard to watch her faith break down in real time over this. What I learned is that it’s easy for me to talk about having faith from a powered home with no roof damage. 😞     

Edited October 15, 2024 by LDSGator

[mikbone]

12 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

The hurricane issue is actually a real problem for one of my really devout neighbors. Getting slammed with destruction after praying for days that it’ll pass then watching your agnostic friends suffer virtually no damage has tested their faith.

We had a big fire in town and 2 other families spent the night in our home while they were displaced.  They both prayed that their homes would be spared.

One home had some mild smoke and fire damage to the stuff in the yard.

The other family’s home was torched.

 

The torched home family received a $1M insurance check and all kinds of blessings.

The family with the smoke damage lost a load of money with the clean-up and sale of their home.

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

[LDSGator]

10 minutes ago, mikbone said:

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Indeed. I try to listen to her and make a bit more time for her family.
 

She’s not in the stage yet to hear this saying, understandably so.  

Edited October 15, 2024 by LDSGator

[NeuroTypical]

As we approach the election, the tea and coffee people both try to look appealing to the cocoa bois.

[NeuroTypical]

Oh, snap!

 

[NeuroTypical]

Oh, SNAP! The story is getting picked up by news outlets.
 

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2024/10/17/meta-software-engineer-says-anti-harris-posts-automatically-demoted-n2646358

[Phoenix_person]

5 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Oh, snap!

 

There are a lot of reasons why I'm angry at Elon for turning Twitter into a Nazi-infested cesspool, not the least of which is the fact that it's the last of the prominent social media platforms that still allows you to browse your feed chronologically instead of at the whim of an algorithm (not that it does me much good when more than half of the accounts I follow there have abandoned ship). I know Meta (FB, specifically) took heat after the 2020 election for the way their algorithm seemed to favor content that sparked engagement, and misinformation is great for engagement. Now it's filled with thousands of grandparents sharing AI images of ducks that turn into Jesus if you squint hard enough, all with hundreds of "Amens" in the comments. The billionaire class is trying their hardest to turn Idiocracy into a documentary, because they know no one will challenge them if we're too busy arguing with Nazis and promoting lazy AI development.

[Vort]

3 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

There are a lot of reasons why I'm angry at Elon for turning Twitter into a Nazi-infested cesspool, not the least of which is the fact that it's the last of the prominent social media platforms that still allows you to browse your feed chronologically instead of at the whim of an algorithm (not that it does me much good when more than half of the accounts I follow there have abandoned ship). I know Meta (FB, specifically) took heat after the 2020 election for the way their algorithm seemed to favor content that sparked engagement, and misinformation is great for engagement. Now it's filled with thousands of grandparents sharing AI images of ducks that turn into Jesus if you squint hard enough, all with hundreds of "Amens" in the comments. The billionaire class is trying their hardest to turn Idiocracy into a documentary, because they know no one will challenge them if we're too busy arguing with Nazis and promoting lazy AI development.

Behold the functioning, such as it is, of the leftist mind.

[Phoenix_person]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

Behold the functioning, such as it is, of the leftist mind.

Thanks, I'm well aware that my mental faculties leave much to be desired. I have permanent physical reminders of it, in fact, and I receive substantial VA benefits due to the link between my mental health decline and head trauma I received 20 years ago in Iraq.

That doesn't mean I'm wrong about the way social media algorithms are being exploited to manipulate public opinion and invade privacy, especially among older Americans who don't understand the extent to which they're being mined for data. I've lost count of how many times I've had to tell my mom to stop engaging with public Facebook posts from obscure accounts that are designed to gather personal information from her like her birthday, maiden name, and first car. I think she finally listened after the THIRD time her FB account was cloned and she had to tell all her contacts not to accept friend new requests from her. I've seen that happen to several people I care about, including my 95 year-old mega-MAGA grandfather. But at least *he* believed me when I told him it happened because FB has turned into a buffet for scammers who profit from the technological illiteracy of our older generations. I worded that last bit a little differently, though. I didn't want the man who taught me how to use a HAM radio to feel like a tech dummy, even though he kind of is when it comes to using social media safely.

But yeah, I'm a mentally ill idiot for not wanting my flamboyantly-racist (and bigoted in just about every other way imaginable) grandfather to lose his pension to a faceless digital thief.

And anyone with a Twitter account and functioning eyeballs can see that the antisemitism (not to be confused with anti-Zionism) has gotten alarmingly worse over the past year since free speech was "legalized". Yes, there are some bad eggs on "my side" acting in poor faith in the name of freeing Palestine, but the dogwhistles on the right are getting increasingly louder. Twitter is turning into Gab, another bastion of "free speech". I guess we're seeing what kind of speech wasn't previously "free" on these platforms that are under no legal obligation to protect hate speech. It's sad, because I met a lot of great people there over the years, including many who have recently abandoned ship because they're queer, Muslim, Jewish, or some other demographic that is constantly targeted by people who pay Elon for the priviledge of having their hate speech elevated and amplified. If there's one positive outcome from it, it's that it has motivated me to log off more and spend time talking to people in my community face to face to about the values we have in common.

Edited October 18, 2024 by Phoenix_person

[LDSGator]

7 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

Thanks, I'm well aware that my mental faculties leave much to be desired. I have permanent physical reminders of it, in fact, and I receive substantial VA benefits due to the link between my mental health decline and head trauma I received 20 years ago in Iraq.

That doesn't mean I'm wrong about the way social media algorithms are being exploited to manipulate public opinion and invade privacy, especially among older Americans who don't understand the extent to which they're being mined for data. I've lost count of how many times I've had to tell my mom to stop engaging with public Facebook posts from obscure accounts that are designed to gather personal information from her like her birthday, maiden name, and first car. I think she finally listened after the THIRD time her FB account was cloned and she had to tell all her contacts not to accept friend new requests from her. I've seen that happen to several people I care about, including my 95 year-old mega-MAGA grandfather. But at least *he* believed me when I told him it happened because FB has turned into a buffet for scammers who profit from the technological illiteracy of our older generations. I worded that last bit a little differently, though. I didn't want the man who taught me how to use a HAM radio to feel like a tech dummy, even though he kind of is when it comes to using social media safely.

But yeah, I'm a mentally ill idiot for not wanting my flamboyantly-racist (and bigoted in just about every other way imaginable) grandfather to lose his pension to a faceless digital thief.

We love you bro. Don’t forget that. 

[Phoenix_person]

BTW, one of the main reasons I'm still on these forums at all is because there are so many rules in place limiting what we can say. Heck, I've been here long enough to remember a time when several of current "current events" threads on here would have violated site rules. I think that temperance is a good thing and that we could use more of it, not less, on more mainstream parts of the internet. I can't count the times I've tried to have discussions like this on FB or Twitter only to be called a series of inaccurate slurs and blocked. As much as I get frustrated by this place sometines, it's nice to have somewhere I can go to discuss things like the economy and health care reform without being called a Jewish pedo cuck. That last one is a personal favorite of Royce White, the GOP candidate running against Amy Klobuchar. The Minnesota GOP hasn't recognized his primary victory on any of their official platforms, and it's easy to see why if you look at his official platforms.

[LDSGator]

22 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

these forums

I love TH. I feel like it’s my virtual LDS ward. Not joking, I think it’s great.