Why so solemn during meetings?

[Dee23]

Hi there! I have been a member of the church for almost 8 years . One thing that I have been told and always will remember is that the church is perfect but the people aren't. It's hard--going to church hearing others talking--and chattering--but I believe if in your heart you desire to strong to hear the word, you will hear it. Example--my dear children almost 2 and almost 3. They can't , won't, don't sit still. Anyway. I was walking around , and around I wasn't hearing anything for a while and then I heard something over the loud speaker/intercom that just touched my heart. I know that I am in the right place and the right time and that I will be blessed for that. So will you.

[Maya]

I always gave 2 chanses to my kids.. Either sit quietly with a book, crayons... in the meeting, or in to the corridorand siting my lap or a chair doing nothing ... tok us 1-2 times in corridor/a litle room each kid to learn that it is much more fun to sit in the meeting with something quiet to do than in the corridor without!

When they were small my meetings often dissapeared in trying to keep them quiet, if they were awake. But that was way better than to learn them that they can run free and wild outside. I rocked them, I made faces, I plahyed with fingers, rid a horse, they discovered a lot interesting things in my handbag (some of them I ahd put in for purpose, I wrecked my barin in trying to find things for kids under 3 to keep them quiet... but it was worth it!!

I remember from my childhood...once dad tok me out of the church as it was so dull there ... I wanted out all the time. It was not like I suffered in the church and that it had been horrible for me to sit there... it was just plain dull..and that is why I believe that if you have something for the kids to do they can even get some glimpses of the speach...just like you do too...

Be consiquent and BOTH parents have to agree about how to handle things..and in our ward the fathers are encourighed to take the kids out if there is a must situation!

[Elgama]

I always gave 2 chanses to my kids.. Either sit quietly with a book, crayons... in the meeting, or in to the corridorand siting my lap or a chair doing nothing ... tok us 1-2 times in corridor/a litle room each kid to learn that it is much more fun to sit in the meeting with something quiet to do than in the corridor without!

When they were small my meetings often dissapeared in trying to keep them quiet, if they were awake. But that was way better than to learn them that they can run free and wild outside. I rocked them, I made faces, I plahyed with fingers, rid a horse, they discovered a lot interesting things in my handbag (some of them I ahd put in for purpose, I wrecked my barin in trying to find things for kids under 3 to keep them quiet... but it was worth it!!

I remember from my childhood...once dad tok me out of the church as it was so dull there ... I wanted out all the time. It was not like I suffered in the church and that it had been horrible for me to sit there... it was just plain dull..and that is why I believe that if you have something for the kids to do they can even get some glimpses of the speach...just like you do too...

Be consiquent and BOTH parents have to agree about how to handle things..and in our ward the fathers are encourighed to take the kids out if there is a must situation!

There are lots of ways to deal with it. I tried that with Ellie it did not work all that happened was I spent week after week with a tantruming two year old (and she can still tantrum for upto an hour at 4 just a lot less often) - my branch president suggested I come out into the quiet room and tell her we can go back with everyone else when she was ready, and then let her play whilst I read my scriptures, joined in with the hymns, took notes from the talks - took 2 weeks and she was back in sacrament behaving wonderfully. Trouble is we now have loads more kids not all as well behaved as Ellie, and she is more difficult now as a result. I find when I take Gabey out that the quiet room is anything but reverent so I tend to keep him in Sacrament unless he is outright screaming.

-Charley

[JustMiss]

Sorry if the title of this message is vague, i'll try my best to elaborate.

I was raised in a Charismatic church (essentially it was Pentecostal) and anyone that has any experience with churches like this known that their services are VERY different in nature than that of an LDS meeting.

Anyway, long story short after many years, I fell away from my old church and began dating a guy who was raised in LDS. He's really taught me a lot, and I feel myself growing very fond of the church. I wanted to become more involved, and I began meeting with missionaries and doing studies with him.

When I read the Mormon scriptures and speak with my new Mormon associates, I truly feel like i've finally found the truth of the world. It's a great feeling.

Attending meetings in the church is another business entirely. I have a really hard time going to meetings. The environment is VERY different from what i'm used to, and I don't feel the spirit in the least when I enter the LDS church. In fact, more often than not i'm offended.

It seems like nobody pays attention to whoever is talking while at the mic, there is so much irrelevant whispering and chattering at the Ward I go to! Is this common at all Wards/Branches? In the Charismatic scene, when at church you talk about Christ, not your everyday business, and our attention was on the speaker (or obviously God.)

And the ones who are paying attention show little to no emotion about the subject at hand. It's almost like they are bored! I don't understand how you could be lackluster while in the presence of God. I get really excited and happy when I hear people teaching the gospel, i'm so used to dancing and cheering when in the Lord's house.

Obviously a lot of this is just me being used to a lot of energy and noise from the Pentecostal churches I attended growing up. But it's so hard to feel passion inside of the LDS church! I get so excited and worked up when reading the scripture at home, but it's like a real downer whenever I get inside a meeting.

Is this sort of behavior expected of all meetings? If so, why is that? I don't want to be cutting down the church because i'm super interested in taking things further. I just want to feel some emotion other than frustration when I enter the LDS church.

Rachelle,

I was a member for over ten years. The meetings don't change. I was taught to sit quietly, reverently with my arms folded. I was taught that was a sign that you were paying attention to the person presenting the talk or lesson. I sat there and would pay attention. I heard over and over , "I know this church is true, I know Joseph Smith was a true propet"... I was excited to belong to the "only true church." The church really emphasizes trusting your feelings. You'll hear things like.... "when you hear a testimony you'll know what the person is saying is true by the warmth you feel in your heart. That's your confirmation of truth. It's a slippery slope. The bible has many warnings about not only trusting your feelings. But also trusting different gospels. In

Galations 1: 6-9

6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

the bible also warns about false prophets going out into the world. It also says that God allows this to happen to test us. The bible also gives us things we can do to determine if one is a false prophet or not. As well as if what is being taught is the word of God. It instructs us to not trust every spirit but to test the spirts. It also tells us to use the Bible as a benchmark for truth. In other words, if you are taught something, refer to the Bible and compare. What does the bible teach about this. If it isn't what the bible teaches then you are not to trust in it. For example... the law of eternal progression where after you die you continue to progress in knowledge. The bible "in Context" doesn't teach that. The key to determining the the truth of the teaching is reading the bible in context. If you are given a bible verse to support a teaching. Don't just read the one verse you are given, But read the entire chapter in context to understand what is really being discussed. There is so many teachings that are so against the teaching of the bible. The idea that man can become gods alone is so far from Christianity. And the teaching that God was once a man that walked a earth like you and I, that died and continued to progress until he was exalted into being god over his own realm. Where him and his many wives hat spirit babies and continue multiplying until there were enough spirits to come to earth to gain physical bodies. So they can live the ordinances of the "only true church" and gain in knowledge and spiritual understanding so that when they die they too hopefully can continue to progress and hopefully become exalted and become gods/ess over their own realms. God put on flesh and became man, to come and teach us, and to die a horrible death on a cross. He was victorious over death and was resurrected so that we can have eternal life to honor and worship him, not exalt ourselves or becomes gods. Rachelle I just hope and pray you will remember the teaching you were taught in your Christian chruch. Compare the teachings to the bible and you will know that as nice and loving as the LDS people are, their teachings are not true. God Bless you!

Missy

[Maya]

Yes Elgama... UH those kids.. are you sure they chose us or we them or even both ways!!

It is sad when not everyone do the same since if other kids are noicy how can yours be quiet!

[Brother Dorsey]

Rachelle,

I was a member for over ten years. The meetings don't change. I was taught to sit quietly, reverently with my arms folded. I was taught that was a sign that you were paying attention to the person presenting the talk or lesson. I sat there and would pay attention. I heard over and over , "I know this church is true, I know Joseph Smith was a true propet"... I was excited to belong to the "only true church." The church really emphasizes trusting your feelings. You'll hear things like.... "when you hear a testimony you'll know what the person is saying is true by the warmth you feel in your heart. That's your confirmation of truth. It's a slippery slope. The bible has many warnings about not only trusting your feelings. But also trusting different gospels. In

Galations 1: 6-9

6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

the bible also warns about false prophets going out into the world. It also says that God allows this to happen to test us. The bible also gives us things we can do to determine if one is a false prophet or not. As well as if what is being taught is the word of God. It instructs us to not trust every spirit but to test the spirts. It also tells us to use the Bible as a benchmark for truth. In other words, if you are taught something, refer to the Bible and compare. What does the bible teach about this. If it isn't what the bible teaches then you are not to trust in it. For example... the law of eternal progression where after you die you continue to progress in knowledge. The bible "in Context" doesn't teach that. The key to determining the the truth of the teaching is reading the bible in context. If you are given a bible verse to support a teaching. Don't just read the one verse you are given, But read the entire chapter in context to understand what is really being discussed. There is so many teachings that are so against the teaching of the bible. The idea that man can become gods alone is so far from Christianity. And the teaching that God was once a man that walked a earth like you and I, that died and continued to progress until he was exalted into being god over his own realm. Where him and his many wives hat spirit babies and continue multiplying until there were enough spirits to come to earth to gain physical bodies. So they can live the ordinances of the "only true church" and gain in knowledge and spiritual understanding so that when they die they too hopefully can continue to progress and hopefully become exalted and become gods/ess over their own realms. God put on flesh and became man, to come and teach us, and to die a horrible death on a cross. He was victorious over death and was resurrected so that we can have eternal life to honor and worship him, not exalt ourselves or becomes gods. Rachelle I just hope and pray you will remember the teaching you were taught in your Christian chruch. Compare the teachings to the bible and you will know that as nice and loving as the LDS people are, their teachings are not true. God Bless you!

Missy

Missy...

This reply you posted to Rachelle's original post seems to me to be just your ex-Mormon way to discourage a new member by spewing regular anti-Mormon twisted garbage.

In your introductory Post you said,

"I am not a member of the LDS church but I do have a great love for the LDS members. I was a member for about 12 years. I enjoy visiting different sites and disscussion boards and getting different view points. I hope that won't be a problem."

I for one think it is a problem and I personally have a big problem with your evangelical agenda. Why is it that evangelicals are determined to try to "convert" Mormons? So, you were a member for 12 years? What makes you an authority on Mormon doctrine? Tell me Missy......if you love the LDS and we are such nice and loving people then why can't people like you just leave us alone?

To Rachelle.....

Just remember, Missy only has the partial truth's found in the Bible...but as LDS we have the fullness of the Lord's Gospel...something Missy and her friends deny. You have to ask yourself this question..."Would you go out of your way and visit an evangelical Christian message board and proceed to tell them that what they believe is wrong." Of course you wouldn't...because you are a true Christian. Watch out for those "wolves in sheep's clothing" that the Bible tells us about who come here with hidden agendas.

God bless you Rachelle!

[JustMiss]

Missy...

This reply you posted to Rachelle's original post seems to me to be just your ex-Mormon way to discourage a new member by spewing regular anti-Mormon twisted garbage.

In your introductory Post you said,

"I am not a member of the LDS church but I do have a great love for the LDS members. I was a member for about 12 years. I enjoy visiting different sites and disscussion boards and getting different view points. I hope that won't be a problem."

I for one think it is a problem and I personally have a big problem with your evangelical agenda. Why is it that evangelicals are determined to try to "convert" Mormons? So, you were a member for 12 years? What makes you an authority on Mormon doctrine? Tell me Missy......if you love the LDS and we are such nice and loving people then why can't people like you just leave us alone?

To Rachelle.....

Just remember, Missy only has the partial truth's found in the Bible...but as LDS we have the fullness of the Lord's Gospel...something Missy and her friends deny. You have to ask yourself this question..."Would you go out of your way and visit an evangelical Christian message board and proceed to tell them that what they believe is wrong." Of course you wouldn't...because you are a true Christian. Watch out for those "wolves in sheep's clothing" that the Bible tells us about who come here with hidden agendas.

God bless you Rachelle!

I have no "hidden adgenda" I'm not here to convert Mormons. Nor am I determined to convert anyone. People do not do the converting. God does. I am not anti Mormon. Because in order to be anti mormon that would require me to hate mormons. Which I don't. I didn't come to this website to do evangical work or as you try and state it .."convert Mormons". She asked questions, I gave her some of what I learned while a member. There was nothing I put in my post that was hateful, or untrue. If you don't like what I have to say then by all means don't read it. You have that option. I know and understand the LDS mind set. I was one. You want to call me a wolf in sheeps clothing. So be it. You judge me with out knowing me based of some preconceived notion you have in your head. I dont think me telling someone to study their bible in context is a bad thing. Should I tell her to study it out of context? Should I tell her to cherry pick the bible and only pick out the verses that she likes? You're upset because I point out teachings that the LDS religion teaches. What exactly did I twist? It's up to Rachelle what she believes. If she chooses to go another step into the LDS faith, then that's her choice. I think a person should know what a religion teaches and have the option to compare before they decide. How is that anti anything? What would she be out by studying the bible in context? Absolutely NOTHING. What is she out by knowing everything the LDS church teaches as well as the history of the church before deciding to join? NOthing. So don't accuse me of hidden adgendas. I'm sure you rather just give her the milk of the religion now and save the meat until later.

You asked if I think that LDS people are nice and loving why don't "people like me" leave them alone? I'm don't hunt down LDS members and down them on their religion. If the LDS religion is brought up in conversations, of course I will discuss it. We are instructed to share the gospel. If that offends you, then honestly I'm sorry. But that would seem to be a problem for you to work out with in yourself. If you want to play a victim role and make it like all evangicals just harrass LDS members, then you are the one with the issue. What you are missing out on is this, When a christian is discussing with you the gospel then they are doing it out of LOVE for you not hate. LDS members often will not share the gospel because they feel that, "oh well, that one seems to difficult, they can choose to accept the gospel after they die and someone does baptism for the dead for them" Christians do not believe that after you die you have the option so it would be irresponsible for them not to share if questions are brought up. If a Christian shows concern about LDS eternal state and that's viewed as christians harrassing LDS. Are discussions heated? At times yes they will be. ARe all christians eloquent when discussing the gospel with LDS? no they aren't at times. I come here to discuss and read and take in and yes make comments at times if I feel lead to do so. My sister is LDS and coming here and reading helps me talk wtih her. A LDS person actually is the one that suggested I look into the LDS discussion forum. She felt that if I came here and read some of the discussions it would help me better to understand my family. How is that a hidden agenda? I don't believe what my sister believes and out of a loss of what to do I'm here. So I can hopefully understand somethings a little better, so her and I can talk with out walls and resentment, so my kids can have their Aunt in their lives. Don't accuse me with out knowing me.

Take care and God Bless

Missy

[Brother Dorsey]

She asked questions, I gave her some of what I learned while a member.

Okay....here's the questions she asked in regards to the reverence at LDS sacrament meetings, "Is this sort of behavior expected of all meetings? If so, why is that?"

And a whole lot of people answered those exact questions....but your answer in a nutshell was "Compare the teachings to the bible and you will know that as nice and loving as the LDS people are, their teachings are not true."

Doesn't sound like a question she asked to me....how bout you?

I know and understand the LDS mind set.

You do? Really? because you were a member when you were a kid right? Okay then, enlighten me....tell all the LDS here what our mindset is?

You're upset because I point out teachings that the LDS religion teaches.

No, no....I'm upset because you think you know what the church teaches and therefore you preach false doctrine about Christ's church....now if you were an active worthy member of the church who studied the 4 standard works of the church and read the Ensign and watched General Conference and sustained the Prophet of God....then I might say that you just may know what the church teaches, as in what is doctrine and what isn't...but since you've been fed the evangelical idea of the LDS church and proceed to preach it here, yes it upsets me because quite frankly who are you to tell any member of the Lord's church what they believe or that your idea of what they believe is wrong!

I think a person should know what a religion teaches and have the option to compare before they decide. How is that anti anything?

Absolutely! I strongly believe that too.....but if one really wants to learn about how to bake a cake they don't ask a butcher...they ask the baker. In other words if you want to know about the LDS church ask those good, faithful LDS people, not an evangelical who doesn't even think we are Christians...am I right or am I right? And yes...that is anti-Mormon because you are preaching against LDS beliefs in an open forum that you know is frequented by LDS.

But, wait....you said, "I don't believe what my sister believes and out of a loss of what to do I'm here. So I can hopefully understand somethings a little better, so her and I can talk with out walls and resentment"

But, but, but....you were a member for over ten years and you know the LDS mindset and you know what the LDS church teaches....so what is it you need to understand? Hold on a sec. I just figured it out....I can help you tear down that wall of resentment with your sister! Simply stop criticizing her beliefs and telling her what she believes is wrong....keep your mouth shut and love her! I'm sure that will work for you.

What is she out by knowing everything the LDS church teaches as well as the history of the church before deciding to join?

Absolutely nothing...but like I said, she should ask a baker, not a butcher....don't you agree. I mean, would you like it if I tried to define your beliefs for you to someone else? I'm sure you wouldn't!

I'm sure you rather just give her the milk of the religion now and save the meat until later.

Milk? Meat? No, remember what God said....we will be given the truths line upon line precept upon precept a little here and a little there when we are prepared to understand and receive it.

I'm don't hunt down LDS members and down them on their religion.

No? So you just come to an LDS forum safely behind a computer screen to put down our beliefs!

When a christian is discussing with you the gospel then they are doing it out of LOVE for you not hate.

Absolutey...every Sunday in church we Christians teach and discuss the Gospel with each other with LOVE!

LDS members often will not share the gospel because they feel that, "oh well, that one seems to difficult, they can choose to accept the gospel after they die and someone does baptism for the dead for them"

Huh? 50,000+ missionaries in the field at any given time is not sharing the Gospel? "Every member a missionary" ring any bells? The LDS pray for opportunities to share the Gospel. We love to share our testimonies and feel the Spirit of the Lord testify through us. Oh, how little you really know about the LDS people and the church.

Christians do not believe that after you die you have the option so it would be irresponsible for them not to share if questions are brought up. If a Christian shows concern about LDS eternal state and that's viewed as christians harrassing LDS.

See, there you go again, building a wall of resentment by telling us we are not Christian...have you learned nothing? You're not making brownie points with the LDS folk here...but that's okay because we forgive you and we know you LOVE us!

I come here to discuss and read and take in and yes make comments at times if I feel lead to do so.

Discuss or condemn? Make comments or hurt?

Missy, I know my replies can be a little sarcastic and rough around the edges but please, please believe me when I say, It really matters not what you preach or how you preach it, you cannot cause a change of heart in a faithful member of the Lord's church...we have been given personal revelation regarding the Gospel and we will not deny God...!

So, if you really want to know us take a que from another evangelical who frequents this board (PrisonChaplin) and just share your personal beliefs about your faith without condemning or putting down the LDS faith as we will not put down or condemn yours.

truce?

[JustMiss]

Brother Dorsey,

I do hope you feel better now that you vented. I honestly don't mean that sarcastically. I just have a couple comments and forgive me if I don't do this quote thing correctly.

my Comment:

Christians do not believe that after you die you have the option so it would be irresponsible for them not to share if questions are brought up. If a Christian shows concern about LDS eternal state and that's viewed as christians harrassing LDS.

Your Comment:

See, there you go again, building a wall of resentment by telling us we are not Christian...have you learned nothing? You're not making brownie points with the LDS folk here...but that's okay because we forgive you and we know you LOVE us!

I wasn't trying to build a wall of resentment, nor am I trying to score brownie points. When I attend the LDS church at that time the members and leaders didn't want to be referred to as Christian. They didn't even want to be referred to as Mormon. They wanted to be referred to as LDS. The tone at that time was that of looking down at Christians (people that attended churches that weren't LDS) Comments like they don't have "the fullness of the gospel" and others such as "All their teachings are an abomination" Things like, "The Christian God is the Mormon's Devil." It was an insult at that time to be referred to as a Christian. And I seen it on several occasions if someone made a reference to an LDS member saying something like, "Oh are you Christian?"... There reply would be.... "No, I'm LDS" I'm not sure at what time the LDS members wanted to be referred to as Christians. So my apology.

My Comment:

LDS members often will not share the gospel because they feel that, "oh well, that one seems to difficult, they can choose to accept the gospel after they die and someone does baptism for the dead for them"

Your Comment

Huh? 50,000+ missionaries in the field at any given time is not sharing the Gospel? "Every member a missionary" ring any bells? The LDS pray for opportunities to share the Gospel. We love to share our testimonies and feel the Spirit of the Lord testify through us. Oh, how little you really know about the LDS people and the church.

Yes I know you have a large number of missionaries. I know every member is to think of themselves as a missionary. What I meant by my comment is something on a different level. What I was taught as an LDS member was that while talking to someone about the church, or teachings or my testimony that if they seemed frustrated or said something against the church I was to stop. That I didn't have to answer questions. That if they raised opposition to what I was saying then their opposition was my confirmation that what I was testifying was the truth and the amount of their opposition let me know the significance of what I was saying. Truth was the quiet whispering in my heart. Opposition was the confirmation of the truth and the amount of opposition determined how important what I was saying was. When I was taught that if I meet opposition, that I do not need to continue that discussion with that person. I was told they will not understand because they do not have the fullness of the gospel and that they are actually part of satan's schemes to try and pull me from the truthfulness of the church. I was also told not to worry about it because the person if they aren't taught the gospel here will have a chance to accept or reject it in paradise after they die. That was a lot to take in at the time it was being taught. I've seen my sister, who is active in the LDS church visit our relatives when they were dying and never discuss the gospel with them. I could never understand that. My thought was, if she believes and she does, that she is a member of the only true church then why in the world wouldn't she discuss it? But she didn't. She let 3 years lapse with out ever even trying. But as soon as they died, she went to the temple and had their name added in for the baptism of the dead. That's why I made that comment. Because to me and others it seemed not right. I can see from my comment how you and I'm sure others thought I was talking about missions but I wasn't.

Your Comment:

But, wait....you said, "I don't believe what my sister believes and out of a loss of what to do I'm here. So I can hopefully understand somethings a little better, so her and I can talk with out walls and resentment"

But, but, but....you were a member for over ten years and you know the LDS mindset and you know what the LDS church teaches....so what is it you need to understand? Hold on a sec. I just figured it out....I can help you tear down that wall of resentment with your sister! Simply stop criticizing her beliefs and telling her what she believes is wrong....keep your mouth shut and love her! I'm sure that will work for you.

I actually don't criticize her. What good would that do? Absolutely none. She has resented me from the time I had my name removed from the church records. She does the criticizing and I rarely say things back. We at one point had to agree to disagree and that didn't last long. She makes comments. One day we were at a family gathering. Most of the family attending were non LDS. We were sitting around the table and my great aunt told my cousin what a beautiful cross pendent she had on. My sister looked at it and rolled her eyes in disgust and said, "I think it's morbid!"... My cousin was taken off guard and said, "I don't understand why do you think it's morbid?". my sister said, "It makes no sense! It's like if your father died and your wore a hub cap around your neck from off the car that hit him! It's morbid and it makes no sense!". I bit my tongue for a few moments but I'm sorry, but I can't wrap my mind around that way of thinking. So I said, "Well if my father pushed me out of the way of the car and sacrificed himself so that I could live, then wearing that hubcap wouldn't seem so far fetched." She had no right to lash out like that. She learned that attitude from the LDS church. I've heard it alot when I went there. Comments like... "well if Jesus was shot you'd probably wear a gun around your neck."... Christians view the cross as a symbol of Love. Jesus willingly gave up his life on the cross for our sins. Wearing a cross to remember that great loving sacrafice is not morbid. It's an empty cross symbolizing Jesus is alive and victorious over death. How that can be viewed as morbid I'll never understand. But anyhow, It's not a matter of me just having to shut my mouth and love her. I already love her. If I didn't, I wouldn't care one way or the other about what she does.

Your comment

Discuss or condemn? Make comments or hurt?

Missy, I know my replies can be a little sarcastic and rough around the edges but please, please believe me when I say, It really matters not what you preach or how you preach it, you cannot cause a change of heart in a faithful member of the Lord's church...we have been given personal revelation regarding the Gospel and we will not deny God...!

I'm not here to condemn anyone. I am open for discussing. I'm not one that intentally hurts people. It's not my nature and brother dorsey your comments are not a little sarcastic but very sarcastic and they aren't rough around the edges they are rough all the way through. And as I posted before, I'm not here to cause a change of heart or "convert Mormons" as you put it. It's not my job to do that. God is the only one with that power. If seeds are planted, He adds the increase. I am a faithful member of the Lord's church. His church consists of His body of believers, not according to what church I had membership in.

and I almost forgot.... truce. :) Take care and God Bless!

[Andrew777]

I'm just happy I've found the LDS church that I've been attending and have left the church I grew up in which is probably very similar to where JustMiss goes, seeing her talk here just reinforces that.

[Brother Dorsey]

When I attend the LDS church at that time the members and leaders didn't want to be referred to as Christian. They didn't even want to be referred to as Mormon. They wanted to be referred to as LDS.

Hmmmm...I have been a member of the church for almost 30 years and have served in many capacities and in many wards and have never, ever heard anyone teach this....ever. How long have you been away from the church? In the past 4 or 5 years we've been encouraged when asked what church we belong to to answer "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" and not say "Mormon" as it is a nickname and not the name of the Lord's church. Never have we ever been taught that we are not Christian or to deny that absolute fact.

The tone at that time was that of looking down at Christians (people that attended churches that weren't LDS) Comments like they don't have "the fullness of the gospel" and others such as "All their teachings are an abomination"

Again, I have never been taught to look down on anyone of any faith and have never heard of this being taught in the church. Members of the Lord's church know we are all children of God and equal in His eyes.

Things like, "The Christian God is the Mormon's Devil."

Now you're getting ridiculous.....you sure you were a member of the church? Or are you pretending that you were to try to add some kind of credibility to your anti-Mormon statements?

It was an insult at that time to be referred to as a Christian.

LOL...now I'm laughing....you are proving to me that either you were never a member OR you never listened in church.

And I seen it on several occasions if someone made a reference to an LDS member saying something like, "Oh are you Christian?"... There reply would be.... "No, I'm LDS" I'm not sure at what time the LDS members wanted to be referred to as Christians.

You are a very confused person Missy...LDS have always been Christian and have always preferred to be know as Christians. Your statements lead me to believe that you were never a member.

What I was taught as an LDS member was that while talking to someone about the church, or teachings or my testimony that if they seemed frustrated or said something against the church I was to stop.

Where'd you learn this? At the MTC? Or perhaps at EFY? We are taught to share the Gospel in any way we can. We are also taught that contention is of the adversary and when contention is present the Spirit of God will not be present and without the Spirit to testify of the truth you speak it will be difficult to teach the Gospel. That's pretty much what I have been taught.

That if they raised opposition to what I was saying then their opposition was my confirmation that what I was testifying was the truth and the amount of their opposition let me know the significance of what I was saying. Truth was the quiet whispering in my heart. Opposition was the confirmation of the truth and the amount of opposition determined how important what I was saying was.

Huh? WOW....LOL. Who taught you this garbage? This has been and never will be doctrine of the church, nor has it ever been taught in the church. Is this something you just made up or was it something your pastor or preacher told you? Maybe you got it from an anti-Mormon website perhaps?

When I was taught that if I meet opposition, that I do not need to continue that discussion with that person.

Yes, yes....when the spirit of contention is there you don't need to continue the discussion...yes, you got that one right!

I was told they will not understand because they do not have the fullness of the gospel and that they are actually part of satan's schemes to try and pull me from the truthfulness of the church.

No, no....they will not understand because the Spirit of God is not present to testify of the truth....you got that one wrong!

I was also told not to worry about it because the person if they aren't taught the gospel here will have a chance to accept or reject it in paradise after they die.

Yes...you got this one right...the church teaches us to love them and provide temporal service for them and honor their right to worship as they wish...the Lord will soften their hearts someday in this life or the next so they can be taught.

I've seen my sister, who is active in the LDS church visit our relatives when they were dying and never discuss the gospel with them. I could never understand that. My thought was, if she believes and she does, that she is a member of the only true church then why in the world wouldn't she discuss it? But she didn't. She let 3 years lapse with out ever even trying. But as soon as they died, she went to the temple and had their name added in for the baptism of the dead. That's why I made that comment. Because to me and others it seemed not right.

What in the world does your sisters relationship with her relatives have anything to do with the doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ? It was your sisters choice to not teach the Gospel to these relatives and I for one am not going to put her down because of it. And God bless her for doing the saving ordinances for these relatives

I actually don't criticize her. What good would that do? Absolutely none. She has resented me from the time I had my name removed from the church records. She does the criticizing and I rarely say things back. We at one point had to agree to disagree and that didn't last long.

I'm sorry to hear that...sounds like there's some real contention going on between you and your sister. It unfortunate. But again, what does this have to do with the doctrines of the church?

Remember, the church is true and perfect, the people aren't.

One day we were at a family gathering. Most of the family attending were non LDS. We were sitting around the table and my great aunt told my cousin what a beautiful cross pendent she had on. My sister looked at it and rolled her eyes in disgust and said, "I think it's morbid!"... My cousin was taken off guard and said, "I don't understand why do you think it's morbid?". my sister said, "It makes no sense! It's like if your father died and your wore a hub cap around your neck from off the car that hit him! It's morbid and it makes no sense!". I bit my tongue for a few moments but I'm sorry, but I can't wrap my mind around that way of thinking. So I said, "Well if my father pushed me out of the way of the car and sacrificed himself so that I could live, then wearing that hubcap wouldn't seem so far fetched." She had no right to lash out like that.

I agree...she had no right to lash out...but again what does that have to do with what the church teaches?

And BTW, the church does not teach that wearing a cross is wrong....we teach that a cross it is not a symbol of our faith. The symbol of our faith is the membership...remember you said, "the LDS are nice and loving people." Just like the Lord has asked us to be? Many LDS choose to wear them and they are not looked down upon whatsoever.

She learned that attitude from the LDS church.

Nope...she chooses to have that attitude...the church does not teach that!

I've heard it alot when I went there. Christians view the cross as a symbol of Love. Jesus willingly gave up his life on the cross for our sins. Wearing a cross to remember that great loving sacrafice is not morbid. It's an empty cross symbolizing Jesus is alive and victorious over death.

Every LDS person I know will absolutely agree with you...However like I said it's not a symbol of our faith in Christ. We don't need to wear our faith around our necks. We live our faith.

[havejoy]

Just Miss, I seriously have a hard time believing you were ever a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Just about everything you've said you were taught at church is the opposite of what we actually teach. I've lived in three different wards and have never heard such tripe. I, too, am wondering about your agenda.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh but I've heard everything you've said before but always from anti-Mormons and never from anyone who was ever a practicing member of the LDS Church.

[Iggy]

Missy:

What I was taught as an LDS member was that while talking to someone about the church, or teachings or my testimony that if they seemed frustrated or said something against the church I was to stop.

Bro Dorsey:

Where'd you learn this? At the MTC? Or perhaps at EFY? We are taught to share the Gospel in any way we can. We are also taught that contention is of the adversary and when contention is present the Spirit of God will not be present and without the Spirit to testify of the truth you speak it will be difficult to teach the Gospel. That's pretty much what I have been taught.

Missy:

That if they raised opposition to what I was saying then their opposition was my confirmation that what I was testifying was the truth and the amount of their opposition let me know the significance of what I was saying. Truth was the quiet whispering in my heart. Opposition was the confirmation of the truth and the amount of opposition determined how important what I was saying was.

Bro Dorsey:

Huh? WOW....LOL. Who taught you this garbage? This has been and never will be doctrine of the church, nor has it ever been taught in the church. Is this something you just made up or was it something your pastor or preacher told you? Maybe you got it from an anti-Mormon website perhaps?

Missy:

When I was taught that if I meet opposition, that I do not need to continue that discussion with that person.

Bro Dorsey:

Yes, yes....when the spirit of contention is there you don't need to continue the discussion...yes, you got that one right!

Missy:

I was told they will not understand because they do not have the fullness of the gospel and that they are actually part of satan's schemes to try and pull me from the truthfulness of the church.

Bro Dorsey:

No, no....they will not understand because the Spirit of God is not present to testify of the truth....you got that one wrong!

Missy:

I was also told not to worry about it because the person if they aren't taught the gospel here will have a chance to accept or reject it in paradise after they die.

Bro Dorsey:

Yes...you got this one right...the church teaches us to love them and provide temporal service for them and honor their right to worship as they wish...the Lord will soften their hearts someday in this life or the next so they can be taught.

Iggy:

I vaguely remember a teacher at Church telling us this. It could have been a Seminary teacher - because he was removed after they discovered he was teaching the Gospel according to his own beliefs. This would be in the late 70's. About eight years ago, I had my Branch President tell me that the Church needs no defense. I was having quite a problem with my neighbor. He was certain I was going to heck in a hand basket and he was out to save my soul. His method was to degrade everything I beleived. I quit defending the gospel principles and gospel doctrines to him. Each time he brought up one of his "points", I shared my testimony. My Branch President told me that no one, not even satan can argue against your heartfelt testimony.

Brother Dorsey, your answers are spot on- I think that perhaps Missy had a misguided teacher who was teaching the Gospel according to their own interpretations, rather than teaching the Gospel according to Church Doctrine.

This happened to my best girlfriend. A woman in the church told her that if she lived in sin, there was no repentence from that and she, her boyfriend and all children she had would burn in hell too.

Well, even primary children in the church know that is so very wrong. But my girlfriend was so unsure of herself, her spirituality that she believed it, never joined the church and actually spent the better part of the next 20 years talking against the LDS church.

When we first met, she did not know I was LDS - I was inactive then, and was rather ashamed of the fact that I was inactive.

Later on, when she learned that I was LDS she went on a tangent extolling all that was wrong with the Church. I finally gave her an ultimatim, our friendship or her bad mouthing tangent. She would have to choose. She chose our friendship.

She now knows exactly what the LDS church is and is not. We are still friends, she has her own faith and I have mine and we love each other dearly.

I met this woman who told my friend she was going to burn in hell. She was in her 60's when we met and when I told her what her words had done to my friend, she was truly sorry- she was rather new to the church then, and she had the doctrines all mixed up with the beliefs of her fathers church and her grandmothers church ( two totally different churchs). She was so very ashamed.

FYI- this is an excellant example of this months Visiting Teaching message.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I actually don't criticize her. What good would that do? Absolutely none. She has resented me from the time I had my name removed from the church records. She does the criticizing and I rarely say things back. We at one point had to agree to disagree and that didn't last long. She makes comments. One day we were at a family gathering. Most of the family attending were non LDS. We were sitting around the table and my great aunt told my cousin what a beautiful cross pendent she had on. My sister looked at it and rolled her eyes in disgust and said, "I think it's morbid!"... My cousin was taken off guard and said, "I don't understand why do you think it's morbid?". my sister said, "It makes no sense! It's like if your father died and your wore a hub cap around your neck from off the car that hit him! It's morbid and it makes no sense!". I bit my tongue for a few moments but I'm sorry, but I can't wrap my mind around that way of thinking. So I said, "Well if my father pushed me out of the way of the car and sacrificed himself so that I could live, then wearing that hubcap wouldn't seem so far fetched."

I am Latter-Day Saint and don't wear a cross but when I hear people speaking of the cross I sometimes think about this scripture:

Luke chapter 9

23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

We can also cross reference this scripture with another in the Book of Mormon.

Alma chapter 39

9 Now my son, I would that ye should repent and forsake your sins, and go no more after the lusts of your eyes, but cross yourself in all these things; for except ye do this ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. Oh, remember, and take it upon you, and cross yourself in these things.

[Aelswyth]

Just Miss, I seriously have a hard time believing you were ever a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Just about everything you've said you were taught at church is the opposite of what we actually teach. I've lived in three different wards and have never heard such tripe. I, too, am wondering about your agenda.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh but I've heard everything you've said before but always from anti-Mormons and never from anyone who was ever a practicing member of the LDS Church.

I've never heard these things from the Church or from active, involved members... but I have heard some pretty crazy things out of the mouth of my mother-in-law, who was raised in an inactive RLDS family ("jack mormons"). She says a lot of the same weird things I hear from anti-Mormons, so perhaps a few decades back there were some strange little pockets of inactive Mormons who had a lot of peculiar folklore but not much actual doctrine..? Also, much of what my mother-in-law knows about the LDS Church comes from the RLDS and is therefore negative and skewed, and some just outright false. Things like bishops asking for your tax returns to make sure you're really paying a full tithe, and forcing you because you are under a contract. Also a lot of dubious, eyebrow-raising stories about Cain's exploits in the land of Nod, etc. Just really weird stuff I've never heard from any official sources or even from individual members who are active in the Church. So, that stuff IS out there, and perhaps there are some out-of-the-mainstream little communities and/or families who perpetuate these things out of true ignorance of the truth, so that their kids grow up believing these are real Mormon doctrine and beliefs. I don't know.

[Aelswyth]

I am Latter-Day Saint and don't wear a cross but when I hear people speaking of the cross I sometimes think about this scripture:

Luke chapter 9

23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

We can also cross reference this scripture with another in the Book of Mormon.

Alma chapter 39

9 Now my son, I would that ye should repent and forsake your sins, and go no more after the lusts of your eyes, but cross yourself in all these things; for except ye do this ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. Oh, remember, and take it upon you, and cross yourself in these things.

I think these kind of scriptures are generally accepted as referring to living the Gospel, meaning, following Christ's example of righteousness. Christ refers to it also in Matthew 11:28-30: "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

His "yoke" and "burden" are the same as his "cross"; they refer to the responsibility of righteousness. He is calling all who are burdened with the guilt of their sin upon their conscience, and with the yoke of the Mosaic law upon their shoulders, to lay these burdens at his feet, rest in his salvation and righteousness, and live under the yoke of his law and ordinances, which, unlike the burden of the Mosaic law, is easy and light, borne with joy. Alma, in 39:9, is telling his son to take up the responsibility of righteousness that he has forsaken and bear it as befits a man in his position.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I think these kind of scriptures are generally accepted as referring to living the Gospel, meaning, following Christ's example of righteousness. Christ refers to it also in Matthew 11:28-30: "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

His "yoke" and "burden" are the same as his "cross"; they refer to the responsibility of righteousness. He is calling all who are burdened with the guilt of their sin upon their conscience, and with the yoke of the Mosaic law upon their shoulders, to lay these burdens at his feet, rest in his salvation and righteousness, and live under the yoke of his law and ordinances, which, unlike the burden of the Mosaic law, is easy and light, borne with joy. Alma, in 39:9, is telling his son to take up the responsibility of righteousness that he has forsaken and bear it as befits a man in his position.

You are correct. It was a symbol Christ and Alma were speaking of these scriptures. We are to take upon us the responsibility of walking in the Spirit and not the flesh.

One of my favorite passages in the New Testament also speaks of this subject.

Romans chapter 6

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

[Andrew777]

I'm just happy I've found the LDS church that I've been attending and have left the church I grew up in which is probably very similar to where JustMiss goes, seeing her talk here just reinforces that.

I was mistaken here, the general population of Mormons are just as spiteful, intolerant, bigoted, self righteous and misinformed as the evangelical Christian that posted here, it's fortunate that LDS doctrine and leaders aren't like that.

[Aelswyth]

I was mistaken here, the general population of Mormons are just as spiteful, intolerant, bigoted, self righteous and misinformed as the evangelical Christian that posted here, it's fortunate that LDS doctrine and leaders aren't like that.

???

Where did that come from? It's not a very charitable attitude.

I know very few spiteful people, in any walk of life. I suppose pretty much all people possess the other foibles you mention, to varying degrees. But you sound very venomous here. Did something happen?

[RachelleDrew]

Justmiss- While I appreciate your well-meaning advice to stick with "what I was taught" in other Christian churches, it wasn't asked for.

Other Christian churches taught me nothing but lies, and you are lying as I type. The LDS is the truth, and quite frankly I feel sorry for you if you feel you have to swoop in on new members and attack them with anti-mormon propaganda while they are still fresh in their faith.

Please don't come into any more of my threads to spread lies and try and turn people away. It won't work.

[JustMiss]

Justmiss- While I appreciate your well-meaning advice to stick with "what I was taught" in other Christian churches, it wasn't asked for.

Other Christian churches taught me nothing but lies, and you are lying as I type. The LDS is the truth, and quite frankly I feel sorry for you if you feel you have to swoop in on new members and attack them with anti-mormon propaganda while they are still fresh in their faith.

Please don't come into any more of my threads to spread lies and try and turn people away. It won't work.

Rachelle, I feel like I owe you an apology. I do apologize that my post upset you. I'm sorry you were lied to by christian churches. There is no need for you to feel sorry for me, because I don't feel like I have to swoop in on new members and "attack" them anti-mormon propaganda. That was never my intention when I joined here. Honestly it wasn't. I read your post and I just felt things were laid on my heart. I mean no disrespect to you or anyone here. I am glad you feel that you have found truth and I wish you the best in your walk wtih the Lord. Take care, good luck and God Bless!

[skalenfehl]

Well, LDS members are just as normal or abnormal as anyone of any other faith. Some are charismatic and gifted speakers and some are very shy, introverted and probably nervous as all heck when standing in front of a congregation to give a talk. Conversely there are many members in the congregation at different levels of spirituality. Many listen attentively and many are distracted by how slow their garden is growing.

As mentioned previously, the main purpose of having sacrament meeting is to strengthen one another and to partake of the sacrament where we renew our baptismal covenants with the Lord. Focus on the sacrament blessing and ponder it in your heart during the passing of the bread and water. During the meeting, focus on the messages of the speakers. Sometimes it's easy to tell if they have planned their messages prayerfully and with plenty of time for planning or if they're just shooting from the hip with little or no preparation. You will know by the Spirit and if it "fills your cup", so to speak.

As for the rest of the members, unfortunately this is common probably most everywhere you go. But this shouldn't change your opinion of the church or it's teachings. The church is perfect, the people are not. Hope this helps. :)

[lilered]

I have found that Church Sacrament Meetings vary depending on the ward. Some are a solemn and very reverant, others are at the other end of the spectrum being somehwhat noisy and distracting. They however are all the same during the blessing and passing of Sacrament, that of being very respectful and reverant.

[Guest FaxHeiree]

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