Rascism - new thread

[Elgama]

YouTube - A Girl Like Me

BYU Broadcasting | Programs A-Z

These were buried in another thread thought they were worth having one all of their own

-Charley

[a-train]

Is there supposed to be a link there?

[Elgama]

Is there supposed to be a link there?

yup lol let me find them

BYU Broadcasting | Programs A-Z

-Charley

[Moksha]

From the link, here is the BYU TV schedule for Sisterzin Zion:

BYU TelevisionFebruary 23 @ 12:00 AM February 23 @ 7:00 PM February 26 @ 3:00 AM

I just finished reading a post on the LDS forum at Beliefnet yesterday about diversity and the Church. From the post I saw that there still are improvements to be made to make people of diverse backgrounds, ethnicities and racial groups to feel welcome and wanted in the Church. One particular item I have been curious about is the seeming reluctance of members to cross the racial divide when it comes to dating.

[tree]

god loves us all!!!! he made us the way we are so to the whole earth needs to wake up and recognize althougth we are different in color and culture , we are also the same or else we couldnt reproduce with each other. think about it , ,( a human and an animal cannot reproduce together) why then did god permit us to enter-breed? BECAUSE WE ARE THE SAME SPECIES!!!!!! just dfferent colors and cultures. the human race is awesome, if we were exactly the same,, this world would be soooo boring dont you think. my dream is ...COME QUICKLY LORD JESUS!!!!!!! p.s. we need to bring in more black bros. and sisters i feel their being left out ! why when GOD is no respector of persons are we failing some where ???? TREE

[WillowTheWhisp]

It all depends on your perspective I suppose. There are some Wards where white people are in a distinct minority.

[tree]

god loves us all!!!! he made us the way we are so to the whole earth needs to wake up and recognize althougth we are different in color and culture , we are also the same or else we couldnt reproduce with each other. think about it , ,( a human and an animal cannot reproduce together) why then did god permit us to enter-breed? BECAUSE WE ARE THE SAME SPECIES!!!!!! just dfferent colors and cultures. the human race is awesome, if we were exactly the same,, this world would be soooo boring dont you think. my dream is ...COME QUICKLY LORD JESUS!!!!!!! p.s. we need to bring in more black bros. and sisters i feel their being left out ! why when GOD is no respector of persons are we failing some where ???? TREE

I LOVE EVERY ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tree]

i have some mixed relatives in my family, not only are they some of the most beautiful people i have ever seen but are very loving. i feel that if anybody has prejudice in them, they havent perfected the love of CHRIST . i know nobody is perfect but how can we say we love god when we hate our brother? we were all spirit siblings in the pre-mortal realm ,why not now????????????? SOME BODY HELP ME!!! tree

[BenRaines]

I think that the greatest difficulty is not in the race difference but in the cultural difference. From personal experience having married someone from a different country it is not easy. We have made it work but it was not easy.

Ben Raines

[Traveler]

Personally I think the race card is an illusion. I believe all humans belong to the same race which is the human race. I am also not certain that concern about “mixing” cultures should always be considered bad. For example during a trip to Japan – myself and 4 other foreigners (all male) were walking down a dark seldom used path (some distant for where others were) late at night when a young school girl approached alone from the other direction. As we passed the girl I noticed there was no fear or even concern showing in her eyes or expression.

I do not think that the Japanese should become more like Americans, unless that young girl ever comes to America for a visit – Then I think it best that she should develop some prejudices before going out alone at night.

The Traveler

[Winnie G]

members to cross the racial divide when it comes to dating

OK when I read that my memory bell went off, do any of you remember witch president said that marrying out side social, cultural back ground was not wise.

It would have to have been in the last 30 years because that is how long I have been a member.

It had a lot of wisdom in it, because of exasperation's and traditions.

I may sound like social a bigot but in truth even social class comes in to play as well.

I say this because in my past marriage, never meeting my husband's family was a big mistake and would have been a deal breaker if I had known them.

[a-train]

The adversary is working hard to divide the children of God by any line he can. Race has long been one of those. Race has been an issue that even the very elect have struggled with. Assumptions about the black skin that fell upon the Lamanites mingled with scripture have been used. Speculations about the state of people of color mingled with the philosphies of men have been offered as doctrine.

The fact is, our mortality is a test. A test to see if we will do all things whatsoever the LORD commands. (Abraham 3:25) And what has He commanded? 'The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.' (Mark 12:29-30)

Now a man cannot be raised from blindness to sight without faith. If we had but a shred of faith, we would treat our fellow men as children of God regardless of who or what they appear to be to our blinded temporal eyes. Only after such a trial will men be able to see their fellow beings as they really are. As Paul said of such a transformation: 'For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.' (1 Corinthians 13:12)

And what does Paul tell us to rely on while we yet see through a glass darkly? 'And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.' (1 Corinthians 13:13)

-a-train

[Elgama]

OK when I read that my memory bell went off, do any of you remember witch president said that marrying out side social, cultural back ground was not wise.

It would have to have been in the last 30 years because that is how long I have been a member.

It had a lot of wisdom in it, because of exasperation's and traditions.

I may sound like social a bigot but in truth even social class comes in to play as well.

I say this because in my past marriage, never meeting my husband's family was a big mistake and would have been a deal breaker if I had known them.

In someways its sensible but I married an American and I am a Brit - that combination is very common in the church... My husbands family are from a military and midwest ranching background, something very alien to me from a mostly comfortable North West of England then North East of Scotland background. We rub along OK, My Mum can't reconcile herself to the differences though and my Dad struggles.

-Charley

[tree]

you tell it like it is a-train, it dont get any plainer than that!!!!!!! the only thing i hope for ,,,for my daughter is that she marries a faithful, loving LDS.MAN and makes it to celestial kingdom. i would much rather see her married to another race, that would love and respect her and their family than to see her marry in her own race to a mean and controling man.(not at all saying white men are mean and controling, there is good and bad in all people/male and female ) well toot-a-loo, tree

[Elphaba]

Personally I think the race card is an illusion. I believe all humans belong to the same race which is the human race.

I absolutely agree.

I am also not certain that concern about “mixing” cultures should always be considered bad.

"Always"? How about "never."

<snip>late at night when a young school girl approached alone from the other direction. As we passed the girl I noticed there was no fear or even concern showing in her eyes or expression.

I agree, that would be impossible in many places in America. I hope what you saw is what she actually felt, but I suspect you are right.

". . . unless that young girl ever comes to America for a visit. Then I think it best that she should develop some prejudices before going out alone at night.

Prejudices against whom?

In the link below are the breakdowns of which race commits crimes in which percentages. For example, 39.1 percent of whites commit murder compared to 59.3 percent of blacks.

However, it also shows that 54.7 percent of whites compared to 43.4 percent of blacks commit sexual assaults.

Additionally, 54.3 percent of whites are arrested in gang assults compared to 41.2 percent of blacks are.

It has much more information in it, breaking the crimes and their rates down by race.

My point is, if you are going to develop a prejudice against a race to keep yourself safe, you're going to have to include the entire human race.

In fact, I suspect most people would be surprised to see the numbers on that chart. I was.

Obviously, in the scenario of the young woman, she needs to use her common sense and not go out walking alone after dark. In the more dangerous areas, she probably shouldn't walk alone in either day or night.

I am not so naive that I don't realize people of the same race live in areas where certain crimes are higher than others. But there are also people who live in a different location that no one would suspect has comparitively high crime rates.

Therefore, the location should be the "prejudice," if you will. Not the person's race. I know we're not there yet, but encouring prejudice is not the answer.

Bureau of Justice Statistics Homicide trends in the U.S.: Trends by race

Elphaba

[tree]

sho - nuff ! as some of my black brothers and sisters might say? sho-yo right_ ! thats what my cajun family members say. thank you for that insight,, TREE

[Winnie G]

I think you miss the point, it is issues such as a man or women from a country were gender traditions clash. A small example would be-----

What age dating is allowed or allowed at all,

This may not become a issue till children of that union become teenagers.

You have to see the bigger picture,

In Canada those ingratiating to Canada have to sign a agreement that they will not do or even involve them selfs in genitals circumcism or remove Canadian born children out of the country to have it preformed.

this is not a religious mind set it is a tradition, any medical doctor must report such a act, (emergency room, child care workers etc. Just like a gun shot)

Traditions run very deep in some cultures, The church has to deal with this all the time. Body piercings are a tradition is some cultures. We have friends who's parents were mission presidents in one of those arias of the world.

My remarks about class had to do with finding out marriage in my ex husbands family was not the norm even his own mother buried three husbands not being married to any of them having 8 children who did not think twice about shaking up. This I found out on my wedding day, I remembering thinking to myself and then later to my new husband, "Your oldest brother was born in 1947 ??? your mother had three Smith children???" she never married their father or yours???

Now think about that? what kind of women in 1947 lives with a man has three children with out being married, then two more husbands not marrying them and having five more children??

Once married this moral mind set became a Big issue in my marriage ending it with in ten years.

Class, Cultures, Traditions all play a role you add race in and it has a story all its own.

[Elgama]

Within the United Kingdom and Ireland there are many distinct cultural and class differences if we stuck within our own groups then we become inbred and narrow. My Mums family the Catholic Irish only married Catholic Irish (even though they had lived in Liverpool, England and not in Ireland for many generations and at least one line was Jewish at one point), Prodestant Irish married Prodestant Irish - then one generation broke the mold and a Prodestant Irish married a Catholic Irish that happened in the next generation as well, the following generation got adventurous and the one of them married a Liverpool Scot (3 generations since they had lived in Scotland but had only ever married Presbyterian Scots), another was even more so and married a man who was half Manx and half Welsh the next generation were then free to marry English (or non Celtic) people. My family on both sides due to the introduction of the welfare went from lower working class to upper middle class in a couple of generations. On my Dads side in Yorkshire and in Borders England the situation you describe with your Mother in Law seems fairly common if you moved in together you were wed, that was the legal situation in Scotland until recently and I think at one point Wales. Personally I feel really close to some of the unwed Mothers in my family tree,

I have gone too far in my parents eyes and married an American the culture clashes hugely - there are differences with the way a woman from a Liverpool Irish background sees things - the society was largely matriarchal, men went out to work and women took the decisions - My Mother is highly shocked I trust my husband to look after the children for more than an hour or two and shock horror I let him take my daughter to buy shoes just how free can a relationship get lol oh yes thats right he has a say in how we decorate the house, and I am quite happily letting him iron his own shirts. There are plenty of other examples - I let American missionaries away with a lot more than English ones - I expect a well brought up Englishman to offer to wash dishes after a meal, I have only ever in 16 years had one American offer and he had, had English companions. A Scots person when they come to tea I expect to bring something to contribute (this custom is sadly dying out in the younger generation), and English person is generally more likely to do a thank you gift - and Americans clean differently and have very different table manners, my Mum can't understand these in Richard.

But our cultures have met and we have new traditions we tweaked thanksgiving and bonfire night and now have them together.

-Charley

[WANDERER]

I have a fairly multi-cultural background. Diversity has it's low points and it's high points. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[havejoy]

Elphaba wrote: In the link below are the breakdowns of which race commits crimes in which percentages. For example, 39.1 percent of whites commit murder compared to 59.3 percent of blacks.

This is actually 39.1% of all murders are committed by whites (who make up close to 70% of the US population) and 59.3% of all murders are committed by blacks (who make up about 20% of the US population)

However, it also shows that 54.7 percent of whites compared to 43.4 percent of blacks commit sexual assaults.

This is really 54.7% of all sexual assaults are committed by whites (who, again, make up close to 70% of the US population) and 43.4 percent of all sexual assaults are committed by blacks (who, again, make up about 20% of the total US population)

So there are a much higher percentage of blacks committing these crimes than are whites; i.e. 20% of the population is committing more than half of all crimes of these types.

That said, if you judge individuals by what you know or think you know about groups, you are missing opportunities to make great friends. I think when we meet a person for the first time we should make an effort to see them thru the eyes of our Heavenly Father first and then go from there.

[Elphaba]

Hi have joy,

Thank you for adding that perspective to the numbers I provided. In fact, “crimes committed as a percentage of the black population” (my label) are even higher than you mentioned because the 2000 Census Bureau states blacks only compose 13 percent of the total US population, not the 20 you mentioned. So this would weight the numbers indicating even a higher percentage of blacks commit crimes, if I understand it correctly.

But I’m trying to determine why this matters? I understand how stupid that sounds, and I seriously do understand how your perspective changes my whole picture. I don't deny that--and it doesn't help it, does it?

The gist of my argument is instead of labeling "people" with prejudice, we should instead label "place." Your numbers actually support that idea, IMO, though I'm not sure. This is really a work in progress for me.

I tried to get my point across when I wrote: “I am not so naïve I don’t realize people of the same race live in areas where certain crimes are higher than others.”

But I actually think your data supports what I am trying to say in a quirky way.

When Traveler's Japanese friend comes to America, his suggestion that she begin "developing prejudices" is absolutely the last thing she should do. (Although he didn’t say against people, that is what I inferred.)

What I think she should do is ask around and discover the dangerous places, and label "them," and not the people. And then she just uses her common sense and does not go to those dangerous places. Hopefully, she will also understand she has no right to judge anyone in the dangerous place. Yes, many of them have made horrible choices, ruined their lives, and crippled their children and brought them down with them. But Traveler's friend doesn't know who has or has not done that.

In addition, there is always going to be someone who has done the same thing on the safest block in the city. Which is a segway into my next point. I wanted to show how there are people who are not labeled by prejudice, but who commit crimes, just in a different location. If we compare by hard numbers, which I still think is okay to do, the people who commit these kinds of crimes are a significant part of the population.

Additionally, they are seldom convicted, because it rarely occurs to someone they have a problem to begin with. The wife can walk out of her $750,000 house, put her two kids in their 2008 Suburban, and drive away high on crack. People don’t realize this, but it is a dangerous problem. Is her neighborhood as dangerous as the projects? Obviously not in violent crime.

But for drugs, I think it's much more dangerous than people perceive it to be. Especially to teenagers, who steal the drugs, and young children who are severely neglected by the high parent who is supposed to be taking care of the child.

Anyway, I fully admit I’m not convinced my “label by place” is the answer.

I just know that learning to label people by prejudice to keep oneself safe is definitely not the answer. It's the anthithesis of the answer.

I admit this is not one of my better thought-out posts. I hope someone figures out what I'm trying to say!

Elphaba

[havejoy]

I understand what you're saying and agree it would be better to avoid certain places rather than classes or races of people. On the other hand Washington DC has one of the highest crime rates in the US but it has some great things to see.

I'm not sure what the real answer is but I know it's wrong to judge someone too harshly by what you know about others.

This works in reverse as well. For a long time I trusted others if they happened to be members of my church. That was wrong and I got taken advantage of. It was just as stupid to do that as it would be to ignore a new neighbor because of their skin color.

[a-train]

Skin color is simply no indication of character whatsoever.

What is bad is that institutional and governmental powers have perpetuated racial problems for so long. Samuel B. Fuller was a hero in my book. I think he was right all along that the answer is not within the halls of justice, the House, or the Senate, it is in each of us.

Mr. Fuller was disliked for his remarks about black folks needing something to sell. But the man who wanted to buy the Chicago bus system so that discrimination could be done away by the new management was beautiful in my book. It is a shame that the richest black American of the early 20th Century was rejected by his own people when he attempted to tell the truth. Today, Bill Cosby and even Kweisi Mfume are getting flack for the same thing two generations later.

It is true, that if governmental institutions and programs are causing much of the trouble, looking to them for solutions is not the most ideal method for progress. When one leg is broken, your supposed to stand on the one that's still in good shape.

I think the greatest accomplishments in desegregation have not taken place at school or in court. They have taken place at basket ball courts, churches, skateboard parks, sneaker shops, music venues, parties, and private social environments naturally provided without government intervention.

The number one greatest thing black America needs to remedy its problems both economic and social is the same thing white America needs and Uncle Sam can't give: family.

-a-train

[COUNTRYBEAR]

I agree with DesRaines the difficulties lie in the cultural differences that divide us and as far as perspective partners in life goes no can or should decide for the individual what is best for them and as for everyone else its none of their business. In all other respects people are people and should be treated with the love, charity and dignity deserved of a son or daughter of god. In the beginning we were all spirit children of god undivided by mortal trapings such as skin colour.

[tiancum]

I married someone from a different culture... But someone fro Spain with both Jewish and Muslim ancestry.

I hate stereotypes...I hate 'em!!! What I hate even worse is when people feel forced to fit into a stereotype. We even do it as Mormons...Yet we don't even realize we are doing it.