Wicked and disappointed

[Ironhold]

2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

So I finally watched Dear Evan Hansen.

Saw the movie version for review, and TBH I loathed every moment of it. 

My big thing is that Evan suffered no true negative consequences for his deception even though what he did was heinous and possibly even illegal since he used it to fundraise. 

[The Folk Prophet]

5 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Saw the movie version for review, and TBH I loathed every moment of it. 

My big thing is that Evan suffered no true negative consequences for his deception even though what he did was heinous and possibly even illegal since he used it to fundraise. 

You must not have been a pathetic loser in high school. I relate, pretty well, to making stupid decisions as a teenager for whatever reason. Don't most teenagers? Some do it for rebellion, some for thrills, and some for insecurity. But teenagers make dumb decisions.

Would it have been a more satisfying moving if he'd...I dunno...gone to jail for it? Or ended up killing himself in misery because he'd messed everything up? Or a hundred-thousand dollar debt to repay the funds raised? (That one could work rather well, actually. Hmm.) He wasn't really the fund-raiser though. It was that girl. Yes, he was culpable in the fraud, for sure...but it was her idea to raise the money. But I digress....not relevant to the point you're making.

I'm not sure what no true negative consequences means in this case though. He lost the girl and her family. Societally he become despised instead of just invisible. All faith and trust in him was entirely lost by everyone but his mother. That's not true negative consequences?

I can definitely see showing that backlash more and really making it miserable for him because of his actions. But... I actually wanted more of a redemption arc for him, including a potentially bright future that was more than just "because we made the music feel hopeful in the end". He gets fined a hundred grand and has no hope for college now...but then in the end he writes up an essay on the whole matter, including how he's developed a better understanding and respect for his mother's love and sacrifices, and ends up signing a book deal or getting a scholarship or....whatever (not necessarily those things. Just spitballing. But...something.) Something that fixes things after he repents. That would have been more satisfying to me.

I think it should have had a stronger implication that he might get the girl in the end after all...and I think her family should have reached out to him again as well with understanding and love.

I can see a balance there. Stronger consequences, but stronger redemption and hope.

I'm not sure the lack of those things means loathing is valid though. Not that I begrudge you loathing it. Taste and perception is personal. So I'm not saying any of this to try and convince you or imply you're wrong. Just sharing my view.

[LDSGator]

5 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

You must not have been a pathetic loser in high school

Be More Chill and DEH were two of the most intense musical experiences I have ever had due to that very reason. 

[The Folk Prophet]

1 minute ago, LDSGator said:

Be More Chill and DEH were two of the most intense musical experiences I have ever had due to that very reason. 

I'd say I should check those out then...but I actually kind of dislike bringing those insecurities back up. I'm SO not that person any more. And being reminded of it isn't very pleasant.

But I'll have to check those out. Is DEH short for something or is that just what the name is?

[LDSGator]

5 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'd say I should check those out then...but I actually kind of dislike bringing those insecurities back up. I'm SO not that person any more. And being reminded of it isn't very pleasant

I totally agree with you. 

 

5 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Is DEH short for something

Yes, it’s a musical called Dear Evan Hansen. 

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Yes, it’s a musical called Dear Evan Hansen. 

Does someone feel sheepishly stupid now?

 

No...no they do not.

 

 

Okay...they do.

[Ironhold]

52 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

You must not have been a pathetic loser in high school.

When I was in high school I was half feral due to the combination of undiagnosed mental health issues and what was, for all intents and purposes, neglect. 

I only had a few friends, and they were all outcasts like me. 

Yet somehow, in spite of everything, it was still expected that I be the best at everything *and* follow perfectly in whatever plans were laid out for me. 

To this day I question if anyone other than the family cat we had at the time would have shed tears over me. 

This is why I loathed the movie so much, as even when I was at my lowest I still wouldn't have done what Evan did, nor would I have tried to use it as an excuse to justify anything. 

And yeah, he rather skated after everything he did when by all rights there should have been some sort of redemption arc in which he had to *earn* the goodwill of the community again after his lie was exposed. 

[mordorbund]

DEH’s arc is actually around the Murphy family. They produced an unpredicatable son, emotionally neglected their daughter, and in their grief the adults in the room put the burden on a teenager to lead them through it. Say what you will about Evan, these are not good people.

Once they made it to the other side and were functional again they ought to have made restitution and offered to provide more stability for the Hansen family.

[NeuroTypical]

Sheesh.  Never heard of DEH, so I read the plot on wiki.  Didn't expect to get transported back to the traumas of middle-school.  I was not an impressive child by anyone's standards for various reasons.

Maybe 15 years out of that crap, I learned that one of the kids who used to torment me was dead.  Looking into the comments folks were making, I was surprised to learn dude apparently led a tormented and troubled life.  It was a bit of an eye opener into something I've since learned from a lot of different sources - it all tends to roll downhill.  Tormentors/bullies/abusers tend to have learned it from somewhere.  The cycle repeats itself until someone stops it.  Not sure if this guy had an active role in his death or not, but just reading between the lines I'd have to say the odds are probably yes.

Reading this thread got me interested enough to google up another demon from my past.  In 30 seconds I think I found the guy.  He apparently still lives close to where we went to school.  Running a gofundme for himself to pay legal bills due to a messy divorce, he talks much smack about his ex and apparently doesn't get to see his kids any more.  A public comment from 2018 on his mylife.com profile says "He is a psychopath who ruined my life. He stalked me and held me hostage."  Dang.  Even with 40 years of distance and 25 years of actively trying to follow Christ's commandment to love my neighbor and forgive my enemy, it was more of a stretch than I'm comfortable admitting.  But I got there.  I'm sad to hear the evil demon 14 year old who caused me so much pain and fear might not have grown out of it like the rest of us.  I hope his kids are ok, and whatever made him that way didn't get passed on to them. 

I think I'll probably skip experiencing DEH in play or movie.  I'm not a fan of looking back into the darkness unless there's a good reason. 

Edited Thursday at 06:30 PM by NeuroTypical

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Ironhold said:

This is why I loathed the movie so much, as even when I was at my lowest I still wouldn't have done what Evan did, nor would I have tried to use it as an excuse to justify anything. 

Understood. But... I thought they handled it really well and it was intriguing and engaging. Thanks for your thoughts.

[LDSGator]

Did anyone who had a bad high school experience have a good college experience? That happened to me. I went to a small, Catholic college for two years and was miserable. Then I transferred to UNH and absolutely loved it. Graduated with honors too. 

Edited Thursday at 08:09 PM by LDSGator

[The Folk Prophet]

56 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Did anyone who had a bad high school experience have a good college experience? That happened to me. I went to a small, Catholic college for two years and was miserable. Then I transferred to UNH and absolutely loved it. Graduated with honors too. 

It's actually hilarious to me how much High School social stuff matters to High Schoolers and to now understand how little it matters in reality.

[Just_A_Guy]

32 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

It's actually hilarious to me how much High School social stuff matters to High Schoolers and to now understand how little it matters in reality.

FWIW, my law school graduating class was about the same size (or a shade smaller) as my high school graduating class; and it was amusing to see how many of my classmates were fairly obviously trying to turn the whole thing into a redo of their high school experiences (while the rest of us were just like “whatever, dude; I’m going home to my wife and kids now”).

[The Folk Prophet]

21 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

whatever, dude; I’m going home to my wife and kids now

That's my mantra!

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Did anyone who had a bad high school experience have a good college experience? That happened to me. I went to a small, Catholic college for two years and was miserable. Then I transferred to UNH and absolutely loved it. Graduated with honors too. 

Yes indeed - that was my story.  After High School, it's like all those horrible people just disappeared out of my life permanently, and I was suddenly surrounded by a smarter higher caliber of human, and the 'rule of the jungle/survival of the fittest' crap seemed to be a thing of the past. 

In the decades since, I've reached out to two people to apologize for my bad behavior towards them.  Both gave versions of "don't sweat it, we were all dumb back then". 

 

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

It's actually hilarious to me how much High School social stuff matters to High Schoolers and to now understand how little it matters in reality.

I remember trudging through high school hoping "I sure hope all these morons finally outgrow all of this evil stupidity."   I know I did.

I'm always amazed to hear statistics about how a large number of people just go on to live their lives in the same area, sometimes the same house, as they grew up.  I couldn't wait to get the crap out of Dodge.

 

[Ironhold]

18 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Did anyone who had a bad high school experience have a good college experience? That happened to me. I went to a small, Catholic college for two years and was miserable. Then I transferred to UNH and absolutely loved it. Graduated with honors too. 

Oh that was pretty miserable at times too, but for far different reasons.

...Like how I had to pay for an entire year of B-school *completely out of pocket* because of a snafu on the part of the college's financial aid department which I wasn't notified about until it was too late for me to appeal it. 

That wasn't cheap, and I was paying for it on the wages I was making delivering newspapers. 

[LDSGator]

7 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

That wasn't cheap, and I was paying for it on the wages I was making delivering newspapers. 

I had to wait tables and deliver pizzas to pay tuition too. It happens to all of us. And yes, my first college played games. Wretched place. 

Edited Friday at 02:44 PM by LDSGator

[NeuroTypical]

I emptied garbage cans at a candy store and then started making chocolates to pay for about half of college.  The other half was pell grants.

Edited Friday at 02:55 PM by NeuroTypical

[Ironhold]

4 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I had to wait tables and deliver pizzas to pay tuition too. It happens to all of us. And yes, my first college played games. Wretched place. 

The college I was going to for graduate school was a branch campus of a larger network of colleges. As a result, many of my classes were actually virtual classes taught by professors located at one of the larger facilities. 

Well, one of my finance professors wanted us to do all of our homework and tests through a particular online portal operated by the publisher of the textbook. 

Given that I wasn't making a whole lot, I was buying my textbooks used. 

The professor was assuming that we were all buying our books new.

Because he assumed that we were all buying brand-new textbooks, he neglected to inform us that each book when purchased new had an individualized access code that we would *specifically* need in order to access the *specific* content he was using for the course as we needed to use that code to register ourselves individually and get directed accordingly. 

It took several weeks and multiple e-mails - including a few to my academic advisor - for me to actually get through to him and explain to him that because I purchased my textbook used I didn't have that code and so didn't have access to the specific content. By this time, we were deep enough into the semester that if I tried to withdraw from the class it'd have been an automatic F under the college policy. 

Fortunately for me I'd made enough noise via my advisor that some of the upper echelon realized I was about to get messed over through no fault of my own and brought some thunder down upon that professor. 

This led to the college officials offering me a deal: I would get an "incomplete" for the class, a code they use to indicate situations where a person is forced to withdraw through no fault of their own and so shouldn't receive any sort of academic punishment provided they retake the course within a designated amount of time. They had already lined up a professor to teach that class in person at the branch campus the next semester, and so they would guarantee me a slot in his class. PS, that textbook and the online portal were about to go bye-bye for good. 

Problem is, that "incomplete" put me below the minimum threshold of credit hours needed in order to receive the aid, and because the system was automated nobody bothered to actually check to see if the appropriate exemption I should have gotten was put through. Well, it wasn't, and so by the time the financial aid department got the official notice from the computer that I no longer qualified for aid, it was too late for me to reapply or petition for reinstatement. I was thus stuck paying out of pocket for an entire academic year. 

[LDSGator]

3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I emptied garbage cans at a candy store and then started making chocolates to pay for about half of college.  The other half was pell grants.

Those kind of jobs are unpleasant-no one says “I want to wait tables and clean garbage cans when I grow up.” But they teach valuable lessons. You work hard to get out of them so you don’t have to live your life working terrible jobs! 

[LDSGator]

Everyone should be required to be a server for six months. You learn to deal with entitled people, obnoxious people, irritating people, flat out stupid people-and your only weapon is your smile and personality. 

[mordorbund]

18 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

whatever, dude; I’m going home to my wife and kids now

I think I have an old video of you exiting a class activity.

 

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

I emptied garbage cans at a candy store and then started making chocolates to pay for about half of college.  The other half was pell grants.

Those kind of jobs are unpleasant-no one says “I want to wait tables and clean garbage cans when I grow up.” But they teach valuable lessons. You work hard to get out of them so you don’t have to live your life working terrible jobs! 

The emptying garbage job was my first job during high school.  17 yrs old and earning minimum wage of $3.05/hour!

Small family-owned store, with endless family drama and unfairness.  I worked my way up from garbage to chocolate clean-up, to making the chocolate.  By the time I graduated college, I was running the production department.  That sounds more impressive than it was.  I was making barely $20k/yr. 

It had much unpleasantness to it, mostly the boss and his kids.  But like @LDSGator said, I learned a crapton of valuable lessons.  Plus, I earned enough to pay for half of college while living at home. 

 

 

[LDSGator]

24 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

The emptying garbage job was my first job during high school.  17 yrs old and earning minimum wage of $3.05/hour!

Small family-owned store, with endless family drama and unfairness.  I worked my way up from garbage to chocolate clean-up, to making the chocolate.  By the time I graduated college, I was running the production department.  That sounds more impressive than it was.  I was making barely $20k/yr. 

It had much unpleasantness to it, mostly the boss and his kids.  But like @LDSGator said, I learned a crapton of valuable lessons.  Plus, I earned enough to pay for half of college while living at home. 

 

 

There’s nothing like leaving a place like that either. Ciao, good luck in the future. 

[Backroads]

On 4/11/2025 at 8:53 AM, NeuroTypical said:

I emptied garbage cans at a candy store and then started making chocolates to pay for about half of college.  The other half was pell grants.

I did early morning janitorial to pay for living expenses after the incredibly stupid move I did to get a full-ride scholarship (gamed the split summer semester system with too many credits via a loophole via the aim of getting such n such GPA during it to factor into the math equation that would then provide me a full-ride scholarship. Worked. Cost me my soul and sanity). 

I loved early morning janitorial. My claim to fame was I cleaned Bednar's office. Oddly, my favorite thing to clean was the bathrooms. Met one of my best friends doing this job. And then I had the rest of the day to do stuff.

Yeah, jobs like these are indeed generally meant to get you through to the next thing. But I also think of the quote from God on Bruce Almight  "Some of the happiest people in the world go home stinking to high heaven at the end of the day."

Edited Monday at 08:07 PM by Backroads