Maya Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I been thinking of the commandmet that says that we are not to kill... Yet God told Nephi to kill Laban...not to mention all the people the israelites were to kill in order to invite the land that was given to themby God. Even children should be killed. I just would like to understand better this side of God. Why does he give us such a commandment and stil tell someone to kill.... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowTheWhisp Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I see it that we shouldn't make the decision to take life, that it is God's decision to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 hanks Willow.. hmm not bad ... I quess everyone else is sleepping, or working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpacktr Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I been thinking of the commandmet that says that we are not to kill... Yet God told Nephi to kill Laban...not to mention all the people the israelites were to kill in order to invite the land that was given to themby God. Even children should be killed. I just would like to understand better this side of God. Why does he give us such a commandment and stil tell someone to kill.... ? Well, think about the reasons God gave for taking those lives:Nephi: he needed the brass plates in order to make sure that his descendants would have the gospel. Remember what happened to the Mulekites, who fled w/o scriptures. Their religion, language, everything, was perverted. The Lord's reasoning: it is better for one man to die than for an entire nation to perish in unbelief. Israelites: the inhabitants in the land were practicing the most perverse forms of religion known. Burning children on altars. Sexual rites in the name of religion, including with animals. The Lord knew that intermingling with those people would quickly pervert Israel. And they didn't listen completely, did they? They spared some, and quickly intermarried with the inhabitants and began indulging in the practices of the heathens.We always need to remember that we don't see things as the Lord does. W/O the brass plates we would have missed so much of the BoM, because those prophets had access to the writings of the Brass Plates, which had the writings of the prophets of Israel on them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeipho Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Hello friends. Without getting into too much detail and making all our eyes hurt from reading I will say this. G'd did not command us to "not kill", but rather the original Hebrew word used and given to Moses read "thou shalt not 'murder". There is a huge difference between murder and the general act of killing, be it in self defense or the defense of another or to preserve freedom. When Nephi killed Laban he was under direction of God to preserve freedom through the keeping and preserving of the record of his people. And now you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stampede Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Not only was Nephi commanded to kill Laban, but moses killed an egyptian and buried him in the Sand so that nobody knew. Here is the kicker to all commandments. If the Lord commands it, Do it. the lord once said "My grace is sufficient for thee." the lord commanded people to take the lives of certain people because there was no other way for the Lord's work to go forth. It is very rare but it happens. those that are commanded to do so, i'm sure repent, and the lord forgives them, he will forgive whom he will forgive. and technichally, the Lord doesn;t kill people, he calls them home, We are all eternal no matter what we do. our bodies will come with us int he resurrection. and our spirits cannot die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 ...not to mention all the people the israelites were to kill in order to invite the land that was given to themby God. Even children should be killed. I just would like to understand better this side of God. Why does he give us such a commandment and stil tell someone to kill.... ? The barbarism of the Old Testament was written as being sanctioned by God. This was a rationalization for the bad deeds of men. It has little to do with the Christian God of love. Killing is wrong and when it is done, it should never be associated with the will of God. God is g--d. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Not only was Nephi commanded to kill Laban, but moses killed an egyptian and buried him in the Sand so that nobody knew. I've always assumed that Moses acted out of foolish anger when he did this--not God's leading.As others have said, we are not to murder. Further, Jesus raises the bar, saying that we are not even to say to our brother, "Thou fool!" We're also not to judge (which I take to mean rendoring a personal condemnation).On the other hand, Jesus encountered soldiers, and simply told them not to be unfair to people--no command to drop their weapons, and become conscientious objectors.And, true enough, nobody can annhilate the soul. Our destiny is eternal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonboySquarepants Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 stampede, if God commands people to kill other people, however rare it may be, why would they need to repent? why would God need to forgive them? God doesn't command people to break his commandments and then judge them for obeying, does he? on the other hand, i think lds believe he does do that, so maybe i'm just trying to swim up a waterfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Ogre Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 stampede, if God commands people to kill other people, however rare it may be, why would they need to repent? why would God need to forgive them? God doesn't command people to break his commandments and then judge them for obeying, does he?on the other hand, i think lds believe he does do that, so maybe i'm just trying to swim up a waterfall.As an LDS I think if the L-rd gives one a "Get Out of Jail Card" H- means it. I hope you enjoy that waterfall swim. I prefer barrelrides, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonboySquarepants Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 :) thanks! it's great exercise. i just don't think one would have to repent for obeying God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Barrelride!! Ever tried the Niagara! Thanks quys... a lot of the same toughts as I have... those that had something new forme got a thumb up... actually asking this forsomeone else, but I am also interested in the answers... and I noticed I went like ...hmmaaammmh as I tried to answer,did not really know what to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Ogre Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 :) thanks! it's great exercise. i just don't think one would have to repent for obeying God.Nor do I, so long as when the sin being committed is on direct commandment from G-d (i.e. you heard it straight from H-m) and not a perceived commandment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miztrniceguy Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 ok, so i'm sure most of us have read/heard of instances where a child is molested, and the accused gets away with it. if the parent murders the accused because of what he did to their child, this person is guilty of murder. if this person was a member of the church, i presume they would be excommunicated. would they ever have a chance to regain membership? what will happen to this person when they finally go before Heavenly Father? will he have mercy on them? i know "vengence is mine" saith the Lord. but what will really happen in this case? of course, it is all speculation as to what may happen. just wondered what others take on the situation might be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalenfehl Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Interesting question, but Christ said in the NT that it would be better for a person if a millstone were hung about his neck and cast into the sea if he harmed a child. That's some perspective!Mark 9:42--- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miztrniceguy Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 i'm asking for thoughts on the fate of the person who murdered the child abuser, not the child abuser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 just wondered what others take on the situation might be?There are too many variables to have any sort of blanket opinion about your question. In many states, the law is written such that individuals can use deadly force in preventing such a crime. That means you're not guilty of murder if you kill someone in the beginning or middle of such an act. Would God judge you guilty? That's a different question, because He knows your heart. LM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalenfehl Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 i'm asking for thoughts on the fate of the person who murdered the child abuser, not the child abuser.Oh, oops, I'm sorry. I guess the key word in your statement is murder. Murder is not synonymous with justice and justice is not the job of any one person. My opinion is that anyone who murders another will be judged accordingly as will the molester, but as far as how? That's a tough one. Only God is qualified to do that. Just my opinion, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 ok, so i'm sure most of us have read/heard of instances where a child is molested, and the accused gets away with it. if the parent murders the accused because of what he did to their child, this person is guilty of murder. if this person was a member of the church, i presume they would be excommunicated. would they ever have a chance to regain membership? what will happen to this person when they finally go before Heavenly Father? will he have mercy on them? i know "vengence is mine" saith the Lord. but what will really happen in this case? of course, it is all speculation as to what may happen.just wondered what others take on the situation might be?LDS.org - Family Chapter Detail - Forgivingwhen something comes uplike this, this is the story that always comes to mind. I don't know what Heavenly Father will do but whilst understandable the parents actions are not right either.-Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeipho Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 stampede, if God commands people to kill other people, however rare it may be, why would they need to repent? why would God need to forgive them? God doesn't command people to break his commandments and then judge them for obeying, does he?on the other hand, i think lds believe he does do that, so maybe i'm just trying to swim up a waterfall. Actually one of the first interactions between man and God is God giving two contratictory comandments. The command to mulitply and the command not to eat from the tree of knowledge. They could only obey one command at the expence of the other. Had they not eaten, they would have remained innocent and thus not gotten their groove on and had children leading up to Cain and Able and even the very lovable and sweet Adeipho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 i think the statment where much is given much is required would answer most of this. not that we would ever know how god would judge them for such an act. however, we know that abuse changes ppl, changes their capacity to think clearly or rationaly sometimes (not everytime, sometimes). especially without any gospel knowledge. killing your abuser in such a state you may not be accountable. only god knows what you understood and what motivated you. however a concious plot to kill someone might be a compleatly different situation. i know of someone that nearly killed her abuser. she had the oportunity and changed her mind at the last min. as she prepared to go to the temple (found the chruch after this event) she was talking to the bishop and said that was her only regret. she wished she had killed him. there was a delay in her getting her recommend due to this (i can only assume it was to protect her, didn't want her going to the temple and then killing someone). she has since gone to the temple and come to terms with what happened, that is no longer a regert of hers. point i guess is we don't know someones mind, only god does. depending on what is there would determine if they are fully accountable for the sin of "murder". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miztrniceguy Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 so, is it possible for someone who was sent to prison for murder to be released, join the church, and go to the temple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Everything is possible so long you have not shed INNOCENT blood and you have repended rigiosly and try to make it good again for the person you have hurt or the persons family, if npossible. What is done can never be undone. The sin is on the others if they do not forgive someone who rigiosly repend. I forgive whom I will but you man shall forgive everyone (or somthing like that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalenfehl Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 so, is it possible for someone who was sent to prison for murder to be released, join the church, and go to the temple?I'm not sure any of us are truly qualified to answer that question. I am willing to bet that if you speak with missionaries, they can find out from their Mission President, who can investigate further from the General Authorities of the church, or if you speak with an LDS bishop in who's ward boundary you live, he can also find out for you. This would be your best scenario to find out. Best wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miztrniceguy Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 full disclosure...my wife is a writer, and i wondered where a storylinelike this might go if explored. of course, this is all hypothetical, and i realize none of us would KNOW the answers...just want opinions as to what poeple THINK MIGHT happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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