Do Satanists Infilltrate The Church?

[tiancum]

Just out of curiosity for those believing in SRA, do you believe this lady also?

LOL, WHY do YOU?

[a-train]

So if I understand all of this correctly, there are people who believe in a conspiracy of reptile/human lifeforms that worship Satan and are seeking world domination. As I poked around, there are people claiming that they have seen these things 'shift'. They believe that they can transform themselves from their human form to their reptile form.

Neato.

On the subject of SRA, I think the difference here is whether or not there is some concerted effort within a secret organization that perpetuates the practice. Are there some child molesting, raping, murdering, individuals out there? Are there some completely messed up people doing tortures and murders? Are there people who are outwardly good church goers who are abusive to their family? Certainly there are. But do they all know each other and have a secret handshake? That is the question. Am I putting that right?

-a-train

[tiancum]

But do they all know each other and have a secret handshake? That is the question. Am I putting that right?

That would definitely be a SECRET and definitely a COMBINATION.

A train, what you are suggesting would have to be "expanding in every segment of our society. It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing."

[the Ogre]

Is It Possible That Satanists Can Infiltrate The Church Without Your Knowlage.

Is It Possible That They May End up In The 70 Or Even in The Apastolic. Because Judas Was An Appostle.

Yes they do and they are currently called Boy Scouts.

[Snow]

No sorry, i don't agree that to qualify to be SRA, it has to be widespread. Widespread is an arbitrary term anyway.

The qualifyers are;

It has to be abuse, in other words, it has to harm physically or kill someone.

It has to be done as part of a ritual, or as part of the belief system of a Satanist.

There are, possibly/probably some messed up people who abuse others and while doing it either involve what might be described as satanic overtones, or maybe pretend to worship satan for kicks. For that matter, there might be such abusers that involve christian rituals or pretend to worship God while committing their crimes. Maybe there are even such abusers that pretend to worship Gozer the Gozarian or Bigfoot or are so deluded that they actually to worship Bigfoot.

So what.

The issue is not that there aren't such messed up people. The claim, for example - that of a poster on this thread, is that there is some systematic widespread practice. In fact, it is alledged by SRA enthusiasts that there is a vast luciferian conspiracy that commits up to 60,000 murders a year.

That's what we are talking about - not random nuts.

[Snow]

The amount of work put into trying to prove SRA doesn't exist is quite impressive. I wonder why it is of such importance (to someone who has never been personally touched by such horrific trauma) to sway others not to believe it occurs...

Don't make a veiled allegation by implying something. Come right out and say it. What is your point?

Not to mention that all of the arguments are faulty, and merely opinions and twists of partial facts originally fabricated by those who have reason to cover up the true evidence that SRA is a real practice.

Faulty and fabricated? Really? That a serious charge. Prove it.

What is your evidence that the arguments are faulty?

What is your proof that it is fabricated?

The fact is that Satanists do get away with murder, literally. And no, there are not very many convictions made based on the concept of cult crime, because people don't want to know the truth. It would be hard, if not impossible, to convince a jury of non-believers or a corrupt judge. The acts and cover up of SRA groups have become so sophisticated over all the thousands of years they've had to perfect them, that evidence is rarely exposed. When the label of SRA is left out of the court case, often those same crimes are easier to convict. No one wants to believe in SRA, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't occur.

Here we go again.

Name 10 Beelzebubers that have gotten away with murder.

Name 10 Luciferians that are infiltrated into the Church.

Name 10 Mephistophelerians that are infiltrated into the Government.

You are making factual claims. What won't you provide proof of your claims?

[tiancum]

There are, possibly/probably some messed up people who abuse others and while doing it either involve what might be described as satanic overtones, or maybe pretend to worship satan for kicks.

Goof ball, LOL what do you mean probably? The question is not, does it exist? of course it does. It has existed throughout history. Cain sacrificing fruit started it. We have so many snapshots of civilizations at their low points, making human sacrifices to their gods. (different names, same god) There are MANY violent cases linked to the occult today... On official court record. There are many convictions, but ya see, the convictions are not for Satanism. You can't convict someone on their belief in Satan, Cat gods, Mephisto, Mephistopholes whuteva. You can only convict someone when they harm another.

Are there cases that we don't hear about? YUP

Is it possible that some of the perpetrators go unpunished? YUP

The issue is not that there aren't such messed up people. The claim, for example - that of a poster on this thread, is that there is some systematic widespread practice. In fact, it is alleged by SRA enthusiasts that there is a vast luciferian conspiracy that commits up to 60,000 murders a year.

we were actually talking about BOTH.

I believe it unwise to even guess at numbers. Whether it is 100, 500. 50,000, or 50,000,000... it is still abuse. it is still satanic.

The original question was, "is it possible for satanists to infiltrate the church?"

Of course it is possible. I know of some, and actually knew a couple. One specifically was the leader of a child porn ring. They were deeply involved in the occult too. His name is Richard. He was excommunicated when he was finally caught and confessed to the rapes and Satanism.

Name 10 Luciferians that are infiltrated into the Church.

Here are some names Snow. I don't know how much it will help, as giving names doesn't really prove anything. I could be making it all up!

Mark, Dave, Richard, Ken, James, Mike, Ray, Leon, Lynn, Carrie, Sue, Pam, another Richard, a dentist who would indoctrinate some of his "special" patients, and influenced my aunt to at first accept reincarnation, spiritualism, read Tarot, blah blah blah. . These are all people who are or were members of the church.

Sue, (whom i knew) by the way, admitted publicly to trying to give her women friends (all active members of the church) Satanic sacraments (covertly)as she thought it would help her relief society sisters come to the truth, and heal them. She confessed exactly how she did it, how it was blessed, etc....and she wasn't alone, she was part of a group or people that thought they just had more truth, like that Satan of God's has a divine mission of being the opposition, and then he will get his body! She wouldn't tell who all her friends were. I know of her because her daughter and I are friends.

You, or anyone else can believe me or not. I just gave information.

[Snow]

Goof ball, LOL what do you mean probably? The question is not, does it exist? of course it does. It has existed throughout history. Cain sacrificing fruit started it. We have so many snapshots of civilizations at their low points, making human sacrifices to their gods. (different names, same god) There are MANY violent cases linked to the occult today... On official court record. There are many convictions, but ya see, the convictions are not for Satanism. You can't convict someone on their belief in Satan, Cat gods, Mephisto, Mephistopholes whuteva. You can only convict someone when they harm another.

Are there cases that we don't hear about? YUP

Is it possible that some of the perpetrators go unpunished? YUP

we were actually talking about BOTH.

You're talking about both. I could care less about random nuts as that was not the charge of the Satanic Abuse poster.

I believe it unwise to even guess at numbers. Whether it is 100, 500. 50,000, or 50,000,000... it is still abuse. it is still satanic.

Except it's not 50 million, or 50 thousand, or 5 hundred or even one hundred...

It's 1. ONE That's 9 less than 10. one!

There is only one case on record in the US of a person pleading guilty and/or being convicted to abuse involving a Satanic ritual component. He is a special person - one who has been proven capable of entering a self-induced trance and creating his own false memories. He pleaded guilty because he believed his own false memories and wanted to spare his daughters the stress of a trial. He has since recanted and is appealing his sentence. (from Religious Tolerance)

The original question was, "is it possible for satanists to infiltrate the church?"

Here are some names Snow. I don't know how much it will help, as giving names doesn't really prove anything. I could be making it all up!

Bingo!

[Snow]

Here's someone who believes in it:

YouTube - Trading Spouses - Crazy Lady - "I'm a God warrior"

[tiancum]

Bingo!

So does that mean you think I am lying?

Why do you make me bother explaining it to you. I expect that someone could figure it out for themselves. The point of the questions wasn't because I wanted 10 names. I wanted 10 actual people. Real people with real lives. Real facts that can be checked.

[bjw]

The shapeshifting reptilian stuff can actually be proven from the Bible. It calls Lucifer a "serpent" in Genesis and when it mentions the antichrist and false prophet in Revelations it says that "three unclean spirits that look like frogs" come out of their mouths. Interesting.

Some of the stuff that those on here have been mentioning that have experienced this is scary. Were these people believers that Lucifer is the Holy Ghost? I know one of you mentioned that they believed that Lucifer would one day recieve a body. It was mentioned in an earlier post that Joseph Smith put a stop to this doctrine in the early church, does anyone have any references about that?

Martha Beck Nibley, Hugh Nibley's daughter, was one person that claimed to be an SRA victim. She said that her father molested her during Satanic rituals. The Nibley family said she made it all up though, and that Martha had a tendency to tell some tall tales sometimes. I think that fake cases that come up make it that much more difficult for the real victims.

I'ts good to know that our church cares enough to investigate this. I hope that anyone doing this is brought to justice. It would be nice if we could somehow get word when they put a stop to more of it.

[Snow]

The shapeshifting reptilian stuff can actually be proven from the Bible. It calls Lucifer a "serpent" in Genesis and when it mentions the antichrist and false prophet in Revelations it says that "three unclean spirits that look like frogs" come out of their mouths. Interesting.

S.

Okay, using the bible then, or what ever else you want, go ahead and prove "the shapeshifting reptilian stuff."

[manxman]

Church discipline rarely is made public, it's generally a private matter. Don't expect change on that front. When persons in authority are found in transgression, the situation may be different, depending largely on how much harm has been done, to how many, and who needs to know. I've heard of a case where a couple joined the church for the express purpose of publicly reporting on the temple services. They apparently succeeded, but I guess they will have to sort that out with their maker. God will not be mocked..... there are people in the church in varying degrees of personal righteousness, some who are in open rebellion and others who are particular about their compliance with the Lord's will. Systematic intrusion by enemies is possible, but unlikely, and the Lord would be aware and dealing with it, his way. Most enemies just try to tear it down from outside, whilst the membership is less deliberate in its destructive practices. As many missionarys have said, 'sometimes you wish the members would just live their religion, not religion their lives.'

[a-train]

Here's someone who believes in it:

YouTube - Trading Spouses - Crazy Lady - "I'm a God warrior"

Woah. I advocate strongly the Word of Wisdom, but that lady needs a drink for real!

-a-train

[Hemidakota]

Snow, without digesting the last 10-pages, why is your conviction so strong on this subject again?

[NeuroTypical]

The shapeshifting reptilian stuff can actually be proven from the Bible. It calls Lucifer a "serpent" in Genesis and when it mentions the antichrist and false prophet in Revelations it says that "three unclean spirits that look like frogs" come out of their mouths. Interesting.

So again I ask: I've posted a link to a lady that claims President Hinckley was a shape shifting reptilian. Do you believe her?

Martha Beck Nibley, Hugh Nibley's daughter, was one person that claimed to be an SRA victim. She said that her father molested her during Satanic rituals. The Nibley family said she made it all up though, and that Martha had a tendency to tell some tall tales sometimes.

We don't have to rely on the Nibley family's account of things - we can read some of Martha's tall tales in her own book. For example, she claimed that once she went to a barbers shop in Provo, and was told she could not change her hair style without her priesthood holder husband's approval. Anyone else have this experience?

LM

[tiancum]

I've posted a link to a lady that claims President Hinckley was a shape shifting reptilian. Do you believe her?

No, do YOU?

We don't have to rely on the Nibley family's account of things - we can read some of Martha's tall tales in her own book. For example, she claimed that once she went to a barbers shop in Provo, and was told she could not change her hair style without her priesthood holder husband's approval. Anyone else have this experience?

No... What happens or doesn't happen in the nibley household is none of my business...it is gossip. No thanks...I know hugh had the spirit when he talked...good enough for me!

As for the barber...I have known strange people VERY STRANGE. I wouldn't put it past someone saying that. I could see an old man saying that or something equally dumb.

[Snow]

Snow, without digesting the last 10-pages, why is your conviction so strong on this subject again?

My conviction comes from simply knowing and understanding the facts on the matter. I am no more passionate about it than any topic where I think I am right. You can ask Elphaba - I will argue just as much about the meaning of a word as I will about this.

However, there are reasons to have conviction about the topic of SRA:

For example, the McMartin SRA affair and trial in So Cal was the most expensive criminal trial in US history costing the taxpayers millions and millions of dollars. It destroyed the lives, really destroyed, of the defendants, emotionally scared hundreds of children and worked the media and citizenry into a frenzy.

For what?

In 208 counts there was not a single convictions. Not one. Why? Cuz it was bogus. Nutty people were driving it forward and we all suffered for it.

In the 1990s the University of California at Davis and the University of Illinois conducted a massive study - the researchers investigated more than 12,000 accusations and surveyed more than 11,000 psychiatric, social service, and law enforcement personnel. Any guesses what they found?

It's an easy and obvious answer.

They found zip, nada. There was no unequivocal evidence for a single case of satanic ritual abuse.

The FBI did another study. Care to guess the findings? ... no good evidence for even a single case of satanic ritual abuse.

Then someone pops up on the internet and alleges as a fact that satanists have infiltrated the government and the Church. What's their evidence? NOTHING, Not a Single Thing.

My conviction is simply that i know what the evidence shows and don't have to rely on the word of anonymous people on the internet.

[bjw]

So again I ask: I've posted a link to a lady that claims President Hinckley was a shape shifting reptilian. Do you believe her?

We don't have to rely on the Nibley family's account of things - we can read some of Martha's tall tales in her own book. For example, she claimed that once she went to a barbers shop in Provo, and was told she could not change her hair style without her priesthood holder husband's approval. Anyone else have this experience?

LM

Sorry, I should have been more specific. No, I do not believe that President Hinckley was a reptilian. In fact, I do not believe that they are (or look like) humans at all. However, I do believe that there are demonic beings that can resemble reptiles, since the Bible associates them with serpents and frogs. (as in the Genesis and Revelation accounts) People who give the UFO stories (granted most of them are probably nut jobs, but a few might be true) usually describe humanoids with reptile-like characteristics. It might not be too far-fetched to say that these were demonic episodes that these people associate with "alien encounters" since the only thing they can compare it to are sci-fi movies.

I actually heard that the Mormon-reptillian conspiracy thing got started because a shopping mall worker in SLC claims he saw a reptillian humanoid in a tunnel under the mall and that the tunnel leads to the temple. In reality, I've heard there is a network of tunnels there but I think its only to link the church headquarters buildings so that LDS employees have the ease of moving around the various buildings underground without crossing streets, etc.

I never heard the hairstyle thing before. That's so funny. I can't imagine anything like that actually happening. Of course, I live close to a small town that is mostly all members of the Dutch Reformed church and a friend of my grandfather's that lived there said that they had a law against mowing your lawn on Sunday, so I suppose there's been stranger things happen. Still, the hairstyle thing is just a little strange.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Here's someone who believes in it:

YouTube - Trading Spouses - Crazy Lady - "I'm a God warrior"

That lady has serious problems. I feel so sorry for her children. They looked so upset and the youngest one especially. Her husband really ought to do something about her.

As for false accusations of SRA there have been a couple of instances here in the UK (not involving the Church) where whole communities were supposed to be involved in Satanic abuse and all the children were taken into care and not allowed contact with their parents. It was all subsequently proved to be false and based on 'planted memories' during hypnosis sessions with therapists - false memories. Eventually the children were returned to their innocent parents but their lives have been ruined.

It's like the mass hysteria of the Salem witch trials. You'd have thought we were more civilised than that by now.

[NeuroTypical]

Ok - I can't get anyone to say they think Pres. Hinckley was a shape-shifting reptilian. That is good. And no, of course I don't believe it myself.

I posted that lady's claims, to illustrate the similarities to spirettedotter's claims.

When spirettedotter makes her claims about "brainwashing, sophisticated programming, torture, pornography, drug trafficking, animal and human sacrifice, and inflicting pain and guilt for power and control”, and says the phenomenon is "about a very powerful movement that is underground and evil, and REAL, and it is comprised of many powerful high status figures", some people believe her.

But when the lady in my link talks about mind control programs and ritual intergenerational abuse, nobody's willing to buy it? How come? I mean, yes, she throws stuff in about our church leaders, but dang - the two stories are as well documented, as well articulated, and obviously equally believed by the person telling the story.

Ok, people who believe spirettedotter, why do you believe her, but not the lady talking about shape shifting reptilians?

LM

[tiancum]

So which do you think does not happen today, here on earth:

brainwashing

programming

torture

pornography

drug trafficking

animals sacrifices

human sacrifices

inflicting pain

a very powerful underground movement of evil.

you may go on an individual basis, and say which you believe are happening in the "latter days".

Ok, people who believe spirettedotter, why do you believe her, but not the lady talking about shape shifting reptilians?

Because ALL of the above are happening. People are not turning into lizards...duh, dragons frogs or polkadotted cats or whatever. Although if i could, i would turn into a really big bird (perhaps seagull) and poop on some gangsta rappers!!

Along your lines of logic, President Kennedy was never "shot and killed" in Dallas if you don't believe he was shot from the grassy knoll.

Evil conspires...it's what it does. Drug dealers conspire with each other so they don't get caught. Mafia conspire TONS and by the way, have been involved in all the above list...EXCEPT turning into animals and pooping on music industry moguls. MS13 fits ALL the above, AND..........they practice Satan worship. They are HUGE. They even have ties in Salt Lake and the little town I live in in California. Don't even get me started on Communism (Chinese, Soviet, South American, and Cuban) and Hitler's Idiocy. It is projected that the Commies , in the 20th century have killed over 50 million people. The Russian mafya is larger than any other mafia in the world now, and it is rumored that many of them dabble in the occult.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Tiancum,

Of course those things are happening. But that isn't spirettedotter's claim. She's claiming that these things are happening due to a "powerful movement that is underground and evil, and REAL, and it is comprised of many powerful high status figures". We're left to assume she means people in the church.

See, there's a big difference in saying you got brainwashed and tortured by years by your incestuous father, and saying a third of the High Priest's group was involved and it what they did on their monthly activity night and the Stake President and area General Authority would show up for it a few times a year.

One is believable. The other is indicative of a delusional mental disorder.

LM

[tiancum]

See, there's a big difference in saying you got brainwashed and tortured by years by your incestuous father, and saying a third of the High Priest's group was involved and it what they did on their monthly activity night and the Stake President and area General Authority would show up for it a few times a year.

One is believable. The other is indicative of a delusional mental disorder.

I don't think that she was saying that at all. She was saying that there are a few members that live double lives. And they have been deceived into believing really foolish things, and have hurt people. Who can argue with that???

I think when we hear pop terms like ritual abuse, we paint with broad strokes and say the whole thing is not true, and automatically discredit what the person says.

My goal is to get people to listen. Listen for specifics...do not raise the affective filter as soon as a certain term is used.

No one can deny that Ritual abuse/ Conspiracies/ and wolves in sheep's clothing exist. (we are really arguing about specifics)The prophets warn us MUCH about it. Moroni tells us Secret Combinations WILL be among us. president Benson said (his talk I testify)that secret combinations were in every segment of OUR SOCIETY. HE explained that they are more cleverly disguised, highly organized, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. He said that battles would rage publicly AND in secret.

How vast it is, we will never know, and honestly I don't care to know. I do know of a few individuals that were greatly deceived. How i described before. There was even a time when I was approached in the Temple locker room by another patron and told that if i wanted to receive true revelation, that I needed to participate in temple rituals outside the temple. There was even a book about how to do it. I promptly informed my bishopric.

It is sad to say that there are a few wolves dressed in sheep's clothing. A few attend church, cleverly disguised. The extent to which these people conspire is only up to supposition.

[Hemidakota]

So which do you think does not happen today, here on earth:

brainwashing

programming

torture

pornography

drug trafficking

animals sacrifices

human sacrifices

inflicting pain

a very powerful underground movement of evil.

you may go on an individual basis, and say which you believe are happening in the "latter days".

Because ALL of the above are happening. People are not turning into lizards...duh, dragons frogs or polkadotted cats or whatever. Although if i could, i would turn into a really big bird (perhaps seagull) and poop on some gangsta rappers!!

Along your lines of logic, President Kennedy was never "shot and killed" in Dallas if you don't believe he was shot from the grassy knoll.

Evil conspires...it's what it does. Drug dealers conspire with each other so they don't get caught. Mafia conspire TONS and by the way, have been involved in all the above list...turning into animals and pooping on music industry moguls. MS13 fits ALL the above, AND..........they practice Satan worship. They are HUGE. They even have ties in Salt Lake and the little town I live in in California. Don't even get me started on Communism (Chinese, Soviet, South American, and Cuban) and Hitler's Idiocy. It is projected that the Commies , in the 20th century have killed over 50 million people. The Russian mafya is larger than any other mafia in the world now, and it is rumored that many of them dabble in the occult.

TWA Flight 800 - shot down [stinger missile] by two men in a white craft?