Is grace enough?

[lostnfound]

If I did, I would bear testimony Hiz...[Tidbit] I know the Holy Ghost and how He operates. The witness therein is more powerful than a great orator. Here is something that majority Christians and a few Saints, still have no understanding about.

Now, what I do find as insult, regards to the precious truths, those who claimed the privilege of knowing the Godhead, upon quizzing them what I term - sacred information - [about the Godhead], are deceivers and liars. What do you think will happen to them across the veil? Hmm….

I do find something that is quite fascinating; it is profitable to be in the lords business. Noting my friend, who is one of those claimed clergy, now has two homes and a growing bank account.

The rain falls down on the believer and the unbeliever..\

many clergy do well..why not? God provides for his own. my family and i have done well doing God's work.

[HizWife625]

If I did, I would bear testimony Hiz...[Tidbit] I know the Holy Ghost and how He operates. The witness therein is more powerful than a great orator. Here is something that majority Christians and a few Saints, still have no understanding about.

Now, what I do find as insult, regards to the precious truths, those who claimed the privilege of knowing the Godhead, upon quizzing them what I term - sacred information - [about the Godhead], are deceivers and liars. What do you think will happen to them across the veil? Hmm….

I do find something that is quite fascinating; it is profitable to be in the lords business. Noting my friend, who is one of those claimed clergy, now has two homes and a growing bank account.

Are you passing judgement?

[prisonchaplain]

If I did, I would bear testimony Hiz...[Tidbit] I know the Holy Ghost and how He operates. The witness therein is more powerful than a great orator. Here is something that majority Christians and a few Saints, still have no understanding about.

Now, what I do find as insult, regards to the precious truths, those who claimed the privilege of knowing the Godhead, upon quizzing them what I term - sacred information - [about the Godhead], are deceivers and liars. What do you think will happen to them across the veil? Hmm….

I do find something that is quite fascinating; it is profitable to be in the lords business. Noting my friend, who is one of those claimed clergy, now has two homes and a growing bank account.

I want to understand this correctly, because one way of reading it combines accusation and insinuation. Do I understand correctly that you perceive trinitarians (yes I'm reading between the lines--that's why I am hoping you'll correct me) are LIARS and DECEIVERS??? Further, that clergy who are supported by their churches are money-grubbers???

One of the reasons I continue here with pleasure is that I hope to learn from you, and to distinguish the lies told about you by "Antis" from the substantive differences of understanding we have concerning doctrines. If we lose the belief in "loyal opposition," (I can disagree with you and still have your best interests at heart), that will be a sad time indeed.

[lostnfound]

prison,, very well said! I could not agree more. And I too and curious as to what hemi actually meant.

[Hemidakota]

It has nothing to do that a believer has to be LDS only. LDS church has its major problem also. The ones I have referred too, I ensure I didn't list the names for a purpose. These are they, who would wear the god emblem, whether it is an LDS, Christian, Muslim, Luthern, New Age, and so on, misuse it for gain [money] and power over others.

PrisonChaplin, I do admire you for your posting and thanks for the correction. I should of added greater detail, with the last comment.

[lostnfound]

Hemi if that is what you meant. I agree with you. Using God's name to exploit others or to gain power and money..are in my opinion decievers.

[Hemidakota]

Even my son's e-mail this morning complained about some missionaries aspiring to notable position within his mission area. He was grieved to see this.

Again to illustrate my point: Paul was a small frame feeble individual [5 foot], black hair, olive rough completion, who speech impairment [weakness] was a voice that would crackle when not influence by the Holy Spirit. For 14-years he served the Apostleship without script and purse. Being married, it was not only hard for him but his wife. His love for the Savior was his fruits of his labours.

Now if we all could follow that example, how great this world would be.

[lostnfound]

good point hemi..I too am often encourged by Pauls ministry.

[Dr T]

Paul was the man!

[skalenfehl]

Hemi if that is what you meant. I agree with you. Using God's name to exploit others or to gain power and money..are in my opinion decievers.

We call this priestcraft.

[Hemidakota]

I wish I had the patience to teach this priceless principle on how priesthood blessing heals people. It deals with GOD's glory, the intelligences, and HIS will. Everytime I watch someone on the TV being healed, I just smile.

[Misshalfway]

I haven't read this thread. I don't know if I have the strength....or endurance......

I just wanted to say, that it IS grace that God gives us commandments and teaches us thru obedience. It is all grace. The works are inside of the grace. The opportunity to hold our own accountability is part of the grace too. Not to mention the love of a perfect parent.

[prisonchaplain]

Even my son's e-mail this morning complained about some missionaries aspiring to notable position within his mission area. He was grieved to see this.

Again to illustrate my point: Paul was a small frame feeble individual [5 foot], black hair, olive rough completion, who speech impairment [weakness] was a voice that would crackle when not influence by the Holy Spirit. For 14-years he served the Apostleship without script and purse. Being married, it was not only hard for him but his wife. His love for the Savior was his fruits of his labours.

Now if we all could follow that example, how great this world would be.

The prevelance is "super stars" in the Christian world is troublesome, and Paul is a wonderful anecdote. He had many personal weaknesses, but was strong in the Word. However, if I'm not mistaken, most Christian scholarship suggests that he was single. I'm aware that some argue that, due to his position, he had to have been married--and yet he seems to indicate that he wasn't, in Scripture. I'm not sure how important his status is to the overall message though: 2000 years later, pride still goes before the fall--even if it's carried in the name of Jesus.

[Brother Dorsey]

Are you passing judgement?

Yeah Hemi...are you passing judgement? Oh well, I guess that really doesn't matter now does it as all us "Mormons" are a gunna burn in hell anyways.....lol.

[prisonchaplain]

Yeah Hemi...are you passing judgement? Oh well, I guess that really doesn't matter now does it as all us "Mormons" are a gunna burn in hell anyways.....lol.

If one does not like the worst fruit of the evangelical crop, don't pick it--and for heaven's sake, don't eat it...and above all, don't regurgitate it.

[Guest User-Removed]

You ever heard Billy Graham preach? Chuck Swindoll?

I would just leave your socks at home.....They will knock'em off anyways :lol:

I'm proud of a picture I have with Reverend Graham and his late wife Ruth...I've heard Swindoll...

Frankly...I prefer my traditional Christianity along the lines of Reverend Jeremiah Wright.

I will admit...I do love a little fire and brimstone....who is that knucklehead from Ohio...Reverend Rod Parsley?????

[Guest User-Removed]

just rememmber skip that just becouse a guy on tevelsion claims to be a christian does not make him one. This is why I do not let pastors lead me I spend time in God's word and know the truth first so that I can spot a counterfeit.

You mean...sorta like the Reverend Ted Haggard?????

BTW...google... "Elmer Gantry"....

I got your leg pulled half way across the country....bwahahahahaha

[Guest User-Removed]

I do find something that is quite fascinating; it is profitable to be in the lords business. Noting my friend, who is one of those claimed clergy, now has two homes and a growing bank account.

Hemi...I'm told that "We Thank Thee O God For A Profit" is #1 on the National Religious Broadcasters Association hit parade....

[Guest User-Removed]

Further, that clergy who are supported by their churches are money-grubbers???QUOTE]

I'm curious here...Would you say that Joel Osteen is about the Lord's business?

Would you say that Reverend Ted Haggard was about the Lord's business?

Traditional Christians howl over the alleged wealth of the LDS Church...

What's that book...MORMONS INCORPORATED...yet, you see nothing wrong when a man cries on TV..."The Lawd will kill me ifa I don't raise 8 million dollars"

[Guest User-Removed]

Yeah Hemi...are you passing judgement? Oh well, I guess that really doesn't matter now does it as all us "Mormons" are a gunna burn in hell anyways.....lol.

Hell...Hell...And here I bought a down jacket to be buried in cause I thought we wuz going to Outer Darkness....bwahahahahaha

[AnthonyB]

Further, that clergy who are supported by their churches are money-grubbers???QUOTE]

I'm curious here...Would you say that Joel Osteen is about the Lord's business?

Would you say that Reverend Ted Haggard was about the Lord's business?

Traditional Christians howl over the alleged wealth of the LDS Church...

What's that book...MORMONS INCORPORATED...yet, you see nothing wrong when a man cries on TV..."The Lawd will kill me ifa I don't raise 8 million dollars"

I will be the last to defend Tele evangelists, not my cup of tea (or Potsum). Infact the prosperity doctrines of the Word/Faith movement IMHO are about as far from the real heart of the gospel as you can get.

As for the failed men above that, are you saying that no LDS leaders have ever sinned or fallen into apostasy? Not my understanding of your history but I will agree that when anyone he claims to be serving the Lord fails, it is a thing that leaves a sour taste in the mouth, no matter how much compassion I may feel towards their plight.

[jadams_4040]

I just cought up on some of the posting. I find it interesting that even though some say that grace is enough they will then turn around and say it is not enough if you deny the Christ. If it is enough and if it is free then even discussions are pointless. The only reason to say or talk about the grace of G-d and make a point of it - is because somewhere somehow it is not enough.

It does not matter what a person says - it is what they do. That has always been the case and will always be the case.

Let me put this in another way - How can a G-d be called "full of grace" and love and compassion that would banish anyone from heaven that truly desired to be there. I have said it before and I will say it again. THE GRACE OF G-D IS NOT ENOUGH FOR THOSE THAT WOULD RATHER BE IN DARKNESS THAN IN LIGHT!!!

I personally would rather be in a hell full of those that desire to be in heaven and with G-d than in a heaven full of those that want to exclude anyone from heaven that desires to be with G-d.

Also - I do not care what you have done or where or how you worship or what church you belong to - If you want to live in heaven with G-d - I offer you all that I have and all that I am to stand by and assist you in getting there as best I can and know how. Even if it does not make a difference - I offer it anyway.

The Traveler

I think most of those {on this board} know that works are required , yet beleiving in him with our all is the first and most important cammandment as "monk" said in another thread, without beleiving in his grace and mercy, nothing else is possible.:)

[Guest User-Removed]

I think most of those {on this board} know that works are required , yet beleiving in him with our all is the first and most important cammandment as "monk" said in another thread, without beleiving in his grace and mercy, nothing else is possible.:)

AuContraire...There are those on this thread who believe that Grace alone paves the road to Salvation.

They believe that murderers and rapists will be in Heaven...just as sure as Peter, James and Jonh are there...all because of Grace alone...

[Guest User-Removed]

As for the failed men above that, are you saying that no LDS leaders have ever sinned or fallen into apostasy? Not my understanding of your history but I will agree that when anyone he claims to be serving the Lord fails, it is a thing that leaves a sour taste in the mouth, no matter how much compassion I may feel towards their plight.

Clearly...if you knew anything about LDS history...you would know there are many "fallen LDS"...That was not the point of my post.

Someone on this thread claimed that no Christian does what I've clearly pointed out that many have do.

When a traditional Christian minister screams out on the radio...that all you need is to say Jesus save me and you'll be saved, he is cheapening the sacrifice of the Savior. When a Christian minister peddles a plastic jesus filled with a little dirt from Gethsemene...They cheapen the Atonement.

What I really find amazing is that while many exclaim...love my plastic jesus...they whisper...hate those gawdless marmons...

NOW...Clearly, I'm not indicting the whole of Traditional Christianity...but...I've seen enough streaked mascara on cable TV to know that Traditional Christianity is a fraud riddled today...as it was during the Great Councils...

[HizWife625]

Those who do not accept the definition of Grace, will not inherit eternity with Christ. Those whe place conditions upon grace, take the Lord's death in vein.