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Thank you for your input and response. The point I intend to make is that there is no sell (hard or soft). The duty of each individual is first to stand up for what they believe to be true. There are two parts to this. The first part of standing up for truth is to speak honestly (and completely) to what it is we believe and understand to be true and to be clear and precise as we can. The second part is to stand as an example of that truth. Another way to think of standing as an example of Christ is taking upon us His name. We do not teach of Christ unless we are that example of what it is that we teach of Christ. Christ is the mediator that assists in our reconciliation to G-d. However, it is the choice of each person to seek a truth and then once a truth is found it is up to each individual to choose to invest and apply that truth. This is the only “way” designated by Christ. I believe a good example concerns Jesus and a rich young man. Jesus spoke clearly and directly but that rich young man chose to dedicate his choice towards riches rather than Christ. As much as Jesus loved him – the choice was left to that person. The same happens with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will not convert anyone against their will. And I do not believe a choice can be made without a clear explanation and example. The amazing thing about the Doctrine of Christ and his example is that it is the way (path) not just to what many call salvation (forgiveness) it is the means (path or way) to freedom. Truly it is that G-d is liberated and free – it is impossible to be free unless or intel we become like him. Obviously, some do not want or intend to become like G-d. Also obviously, I am not yet free (nor yet like or one with G-d) because I am yet a slave of death – but I believe that Christ has established a way to arise free – including free from death and that is done (in part) by submitting one’s self to be buried in baptism by one with authority to seal on earth that which will be sealed in heaven. The Traveler

Very true. From the human side, trying to get others to convert or even listen to you is challenging. If you come across too strong, you’ll be looked at as a pious jerk. If you come across too soft, you won’t be viewed as someone dedicated to your cause. Believers have to walk a fine line.

This approach, often referred to as the 'soft sell,' is not about convincing or converting. It's about representing our Savior. True conversion is not in our hands. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin and reveals the path to salvation. This is why some may ridicule the call to pray for a 'burning in the bosom,' but I refuse to do so. The witness of the Holy Spirit is the only true catalyst for conversion.

There are lots of reports coming out of the Russian Ukraine conflict that are themselves somewhat in conflict. Perhaps the two most significant reports surround a general and a critical supply train for Russian troops. The two reports in conflict do have a common thread – that common thread is that Putin is in great trouble. One side of these reports gives credit to Ukraine and the engine behind the capture of the Russian General. The other side claims that the Russian General rebelled against Putin and has with most of his command – willingly joined with Ukraine to oppose Putin. The same line follows with the capture of a critical supply train. One report is about cleaver Ukraine troops the other about rebel Russian troops. It does appear that the Russian general in question is himself Ukrainian and that his wife and family currently live in Kiev. The other common thread is that Putin has been using mostly non-Russian soldiers from territories held by Russia. That the vast majority of rebel soldiers are Chechen and are Muslim. There is a likely connection between the terror attack in Moscow and the Chechen Muslims. Something else that we should know is about the second most powerful person in Russia next to Putin. The name to be aware of hers is Nikolai Patrushev. Like many things in politics – if the second or number two guy gets into the number one slot – things will likely get worse. Nikolai is from a strong heroic military family. His parents lived through the Nazi blockade of Leningrad (St. Petersburg) with strong influences of suppression from Russia’s scandalous imperial past. In other words, he has a military background and hates the West. I am not a fan that defeating Putin will be a good thing – especially if it bring to power in Russia someone potentially worse. When events are more about certain agendas (in particular political agendas) rather that the realities of circumstances – the truth of the matter will suffer the most. The Traveler

I provided several statements by men in attendance when Brigham Young gave the speech recorded in JD 1:50-51, who confirm that the speech was recorded accurately. And no it isn’t possible that all these men “misheard” what Brigham said on that occasion. As for additional Adam-God statements by Brigham Young and his contemporaries over the next 25+ years, many of these are easy to find online. Here are two links that document many of Brigham Young’s Adam-God statements: https://mormonpolygamydocuments.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Brigham_Young_Adam.pdf https://www.adamgod.com/ Yes, quite a few of his contemporaries repeated what Brigham Young taught regarding Adam-God. Some were apostles, others leading church authorities, and other lay members. There were several apostles who taught Adam-God in their own words or testified that the spirit had confirmed to them that it was true. Others accepted it as true because they sustained Brigham Young as the prophet of the church and believed that what he taught was the word of the Lord. See for example: Franklin D. Richards 12/10/1853 MS 15:803-04 Hear what the Prophet Daniel says upon this subject - [quotes Daniel 7:9, 10, 13, 14.] Again, the word of the Lord through the Prophet Joseph, gives additional importance, if possible, to the part which Adam acts relating to his children, which reads as follows - [quotes D& C 29:26.] From the foregoing we are enabled to draw important conclusions, that before the coming of the Lord Jesus in the clouds of heaven, to take the reins of government upon the earth, Adam comes and gathers around him all that have ever held keys of power under him upon the earth, in any of the dispensations thereof to man; he calls forth the dead from their graves, at the sound of his trump; he brings them to judgment, and they render unto him an account of their several stewardships; the books are opened that a righteous judgment may be rendered by him who now sits upon his throne, not only as the Father, but the Judge, of men; and in that capacity thousands minister unto him. An august assemblage are now gathered in one grand council around the great Patriarch of all Patriarchs, consisting of his sons, who have been faithful in that which was committed to them; and all this preparatory to that great event, when the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven should be given to the Saints of the Most High. Daniel saw that the Saints possessed the kingdom, by virtue of which Adam was once more in possession of the dominion given unto him before the fall, which was over every living thing that moved upon the earth, which rendered him the universal Sovereign and Lord of all. At this important period, when Adam is reinstated with full power upon the earth, seated upon his throne, as Daniel saw him - a glorious and an immortal God, one like the Son of Man comes in the clouds of heaven (as oftimes represented by the Apostles), to the Ancient of days, and receives from him dominion, glory, and a kingdom; or in other words, Michael, having accomplished the work committed to him, pertaining to this world, delivers up an account of his stewardship over the same, to that character represented as Yahovah in the creation of the world, who reigns in unison with those upon the earth, until his work is fully accomplished - till the last great contest with the enemy, who has been released for a little season, is won; then he in turn delivers up the kingdom to the great Eloheim, that in the language of the Apostle, `God may be all in all.' This final surrender, we are to bear in mind, does not detract from the God-like power and dominion of our first Parent, nor of our Lord Jesus Christ. In the Patriarchal order of government, each and every ruler is independent in his sphere, his rule extending to those below, and not to those above him, in the same order. ... [W]e find that ... Michael has power to deliver men from the power of the Devil, which is death; that by the sound of his own trump - the trump of the archangel, the nations of the dead shall awake and come forth to judgment, and there render an account to the Ancient of Days seated upon his burning throne. Then shall the nations know that he is their Judge, their Lawgiver, and their God, and upon his decree hangs the destiny of the assembled dead. Yes, our Judge will be a kind and compassionate Father, by whom none can pass, but through whom all glory, dominion, and power, will be ascribed to the great ETERNAL. Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball 10/6/1854 Journal of Joseph L. Robinson, 102-03 President Brigham Young said thus, that Adam and Eve were the names of the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized and that Adam and Eve were the natural father and mother of every spirit that comes to this planet, or that receives tabernacles on this planet, consequently we are brother and sisters, and that Adam was God, our Eternal Father. This as Brother Heber remarked, was letting the cat out of the bag, Heber C. Kimball 6/29/1856 JD 4:1 I have learned by experience that there is but one God that pertains to this people, and He is the God that pertains to this earth - the first man. That first man sent his own Son to redeem the world, to redeem his brethren; his life was taken, his blood shed, that our sins might be remitted. Heber C. Kimball 3/11/1857 Journal of Heber C. Kimball 20:17 The Lord told me that Jesus Christ was the son of Adam. Heber C. Kimball 4/30/1862 Heber C. Kimball, Memorandum The Lord told me that Adam was my father and that He was the God and father of all the inhabitants of this earth. George Q. Cannon 10/15/1870 Meeting of the School of the Prophets [George Q. Cannon] fully endorsed the doctrine that father Adam was our God and Father - or as He in many places is called, Michael the great prince - the Arch Angel, Ancient of Days, & c. It was not only wisdom, but perfectly consistent, that Adam & Eve should partake of the forbidden fruit and start the work of increase of their species. The above doctrine had been revealed to him, so that he knew it was true. Orson Hyde Wednesday 1/25/1871 Jans Christian Anderson Weibye Daybooks I attended meeting, Orson Hyde preached to us, and he told us that what we heard before that Adam is our God, we had a splendid good meeting. At Manti, Jan 25th Orson Hyde preached to us here in Manti, that, Adam is our God for this planet (Earth). George Q. Cannon 6/23/1889 Journal of Abraham H. Cannon He (George Q.) believes that Jesus Christ is Jehovah, and that Adam is His Father and our God: that under certain unknown conditions the benefits of the Savior's atonement extend to our entire solar system. ... He asked me what I understood concerning Mary conceiving the Savior; and as I found no answer, he asked what was to prevent Father Adam from visiting and overshadowing the mother of Jesus. Then said I: "he must have been a resurrected Being." "Yes," said he, "and though Christ is said to have been the first fruits of them that slept, yet the Savior said he did nothing but what He had seen His Father do, for He had power to lay down His life and take it up again. Adam, though made of dust, was made, as President Young said, of the dust of another planet than this." I was very much instructed by the conversation and this days services. Lorenzo Snow and Franklin D. Richards 10/12/1897 Brigham Young Jr. diary At meeting of all the apostles except Grant and Merill, Pres. [Lorenzo] Snow led out on Adam being our father and God. How beautiful the thought - it brot [sic] God nearer to us. Bro Franklin [D. Richards] said it made him thrill through his whole body - it was new & it was inspiring. Brigham Young, Jr. Thursday 12/16/1897 Brigham Young, Jr. Journal Adam is our father and God and no use to discuss it with Josephites or any one else.

Some time ago I wondered about the physical appearance of Christ. I thought it odd that many claim to know Jesus Christ but at the same time I wondered if they knew him well enough that they could pick him out in a crowd. I have a brother that I ski with, we meet at the ski resort. We know each other so well we do not even have to plan on where or when to meet. We can spot each other on the lifts or the slopes because we are so familiar with each other. When Jesus walked among us as a man there were some that immediately recognized him (even a rather impious heathen lady) and some that despite all the evidence could not recognize him (even the most respected pious among the Jews). I have come to believe physical appearance is likely not the best means of recognizing Christ. I speculate that Jesus is likely shorter than most men of this modern age. I have no idea concerning the pigment of his skin, the color of his hair or his eyes. I speculate that he does not look so much like me. Anciently there was a great King of the East that had spies in various areas (including in and around Jerusalem) that heard of Jesus and his miracles and teachings. I speculate this great King was of the sort that were among those that sought Christ from the star when He was born and also perhaps related to or was Prester John or of a line of Prester Johns. This great King was converted that Jesus was the Christ and knew of plots to kill Jesus. So, he commanded his spies deliver a letter to Jesus along with an artist that was commanded to draw a portrait of Jesus. It was believed that Jesus hand wrote a letter to this king that was delivered with the drawn portrait. Though the portrait was lost in time the letter was presumably preserved among “Christians” in the East that became to be known as Nestorian Christians. The letter that is claimed to be written by Jesus is the only original document text of possible sacred ancient documents known to exist today concerning the Christ. This document has been tested and proven to be written at the time of Jesus upon parchment available only around the Jerusalem area – thus extremely unlikely a fake. I am amazed that this document is not better known but what is more astonishing to me is how many “Christians” do not care about such a document just because it was not included in our (their) “Western” Bible. I am convinced that in this day and age – it is quite dangerous to know anything of the “man”hood of Christ – for a great many reasons, including some religious (Christian) reasons. The Traveler

Since this thread has been brought back up – I thought to add some more of my thoughts about the one and only true and “LIVING” church. In my mind the importance of the one and only true and living church is equivalent to or saying that there is only one true and living path or way. In a previous post of mine on this thread I used the metaphor of Kingdom that is often used in scripture in reference to the society of G-d. Obviously, there are many kingdoms that we encounter in mortality – we could also say governments or the structure of laws by which societies on earth are governed. Just as there is only one true and living G-d, there is only one true and living church structured with G-d’s laws (not man’s or man’s interpretations) and ordinances and commandments. Since there were no comments about divine kingdoms or governments my assumption was that this concept was not understood or considered of upmost importance. This leads me to believe somewhat that few are capable or interested in discussing the structure of laws by which G-d governs his Kingdom (which his Church is part). The one example I used in a previous thread pointed directly to the law given to Peter that would allow him to seal here on earth (perform functions) within the church on earth that were valid in Heaven or after we die. Of course, baptism is an example of such a function. As I said previously, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only organization I know of on earth that claim and/or attempt to insure all have opportunity to be baptized on earth and have that sacred law sealed in heaven. Many “churches”, rather than deal with such necessity as baptism claim that it is not all that necessary, despite the fact that Jesus himself, of necessity, was baptized. I would now point out that the scriptures bring to bear a second witness that there is a true and living Church in the giving witness of the “Path” or “Way” of G-d to salvation. The post that started this thread seemed to indicate (as I understood it) that there is no such thing as the only one true and living path or way – only a best path or way available at the time. I find no such witness in scripture. Rather I find comments like straight, and narrow is the way or path – implying only one path leads to salvation. Jesus said that he is the way. I understand that to mean that He is the Christ, and that Christ (Messiah) is the only means or path of salvation and exaltation and that he is not a Christ or Messiah of confusion but of clarity and exactness for all his disciples and followers. There is no other true and living path. If one is not convinced, they are on the one and only true and living path it can only be because they do not know the one and only true and living G-d nor His Son (Jesus Christ). It is not possible to know G-d without knowing His Son – the Son of G-d – Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and the one and only way that they have provided. There is a caveat that needs to be understood. Though the path is currently available to some in this life – it is not complete or completed in this life. One of the simple truths that was lost from scripture that was restored in the Book of Mormon is that there is of necessity a “time” between death and the resurrection to complete the way or path. There are spiritual echoes of this in the ancient scripture of Genesis that references the way or path to the “Tree of Life”. The Book of Mormon provides more concerning this path in what is known as “Lehi’s Dream” of the path and the “Tree of Life”. It is true that other churches (religions) have access to truths. It is possible that there are individuals in other religions and churches that know and better understand certain truths than some (even many) of the Latter-day Saints. Their understandings and efforts to appreciate and honor the truth they have received or discovered will be of their benefit when they leave this life and await the resurrection. Likewise, there will be many things individual Latter-day Saints will think they understand that will have to be adjusted for when they leave this life and await the resurrection. I do not believe we (LDS) have to convince anybody of anything in this life. Our job is to testify of Christ and teach the doctrine of Christ – particularly the doctrine of Christ that was lost and restored for us now in the Book of Mormon. There are great advantages in this life and the next to know and follow the path holding on to rod of iron (way), being aware of the fulness of the Gospel of Christ (or doctrine of Christ) that is in the Book of Mormon and take advantage of the Laws, Ordinances and Covenants of the only true and living Church of Christ. The Traveler

It's weird. I watched this movie, then 30 years of silence, and then I've seen this clip now twice in as many days. TikTok random #FYP vid, and now this thread. The aliens are tinkering with our algorithms!

Nicky nicky Jack Nicholson gets well and truly "nicked"*, and all the bullying bluster in the world won't save him this time! Tom Cruise was "meh". Demi Moore was OK. But Jack Nicholson was totally the star of this movie! * British slang "to be nicked" is to be arrested. Also to "nick" something means to steal it.

I'm a Spartan. No contest. Ironic.

What about hoarders and spartans? Show me your home screen and I’ll know what category you are in.

From personal experience, helping others is not only hard work, it is sometimes self-defeating. I've tended to focus my energies on trying to remove "clutter". We try to make things clearer by removing some of the confusing mess that life tends to throw at us. When things are clear, they can see truth. Then I notice two paths people tend to take: People don't notice that the clutter is gone. They've lived with it for so long, they don't even know how to behave without the clutter. So, they keep doing what they have always done because they had to deal with clutter. They've come to expect it, then embrace it. Some people are able to see clearly because the clutter has been removed. They make changes and begin to experience peace and happiness for a time. But eventually the clutter returns because... that's life. And they go back to their old habits because they've never learned to deal with the clutter in the first place. So, ideally, we'd find some way to show or explain to people what all the clutter is doing and how to deal with it. Sometimes we need to clear the clutter because that is the only way they can see clearly. But once they are able to see clearly, they need to see clearly despite the clutter. How to do that? I wish I knew.

I guess what I can't help but think is.... we always look at these sorts of things as if our job is to make it as easy as possible for others to return to God. To remove all obstacles. To lay out the red carpet, etc., etc. Obviously there is some correctness to this idea. And yet... Life is meant to be a trial. And how do we know that we aren't meant to be a trial for someone else? I mean....maybe God put someone in our path because He knew we'd rub them the wrong way in everything we say and do and they're being tested to see if they'll stay true to Him despite that? That doesn't mean we ought to go about being jerks to people on purpose with the idea that we're testing them. (Everything being relative. Because He has asked us to speak truth boldly and warned us that we will offend, and he that is ashamed because of the offense of the world is not worthy, etc., etc.) I just worry about second-guessing that because of OUR wisdom in what's offensive and what isn't. The simple matter-of-fact is that Christ offended. Constantly. Every where He went. He offended, and offended, and offended. They put Him to death for it. And we've been asked to take up the cross and follow Him. We should expect that doing so will EXTREMELY offend others. I've learned, sadly, that speaking the truth offends. And it offends badly and often. If we speak the truth, we will offend. I get what you're saying. I have, myself, often made changes in my communication methods to try and better align with what I believe God would have me do and say. But we also need to be careful to not hide away, fail to speak what is true and right, etc., because we fear offending others. There's obviously a balance there to be struck. And maybe some strike it easier than others. I struggle with it.

Sorry for revisiting this after a few months. But I want to EMPHATICALLY state I am NOT saying "bedside imperfections are key to other's damnation". I am saying we need to learn to speak when God has spoken, and be silent when he has been silent. I guess text just doesn't carry enough context. We don't need to look beyond what he has given us, but also we need to stand firm in what he has. I feel bad that I made this sound otherwise. I'm simply saying that we need to be careful in driving those away when going to far. But, it has to be said (as you and others have), we need to make sure we go far enough, else we do ourselves and others a disservice. I'm happy to leave it at that.

"Name them two by two, and it will surprise you what the Lord can do" (Not as amusing as "While shepherds wash their socks" or "Jingle bells, Batman smells")

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_in_Nigeria

I live 3 hours South of the Medford Oregon Temple and 2 hours North of the Feather River Temple in Yuba city CA. We probably don’t deserve a temple in our nearby city as we only have 2 Stakes in the local area. And I doubt we could keep it busy enough even considering the draw from outlying smaller communities. But my patriarchal blessing says I will spend many hours officiating in the temple and performing genealogy work. I plan to continue taking community call and working for another 10 years before I retire. So it would be prohibitive for me to fulfill the blessing unless a temple is built here within the next 10 years. It will happen.

I am of the opinion that we are building the temples for a time of need. We may have a time in the near future where we will not be able to build them anymore. It is laying up for the future.

@NeuroTypical

Yes indeedily-doodily! Me too. I really caught the temple bug recently, so much that I've now got a spreadsheet that I'll update every General Conference and whenever there's a new announcement. The spreadsheet gives me this chart, which thrills the heck out of me: That there's what you call exponential growth. I last saw a chart like that, when we were looking at COVID infection rates. One person had it, then a dozen, then the whole world. And now the same sort of thing is happening with temples. The next 5 years are going to be a hoot. The open question is how long the exponential growth will continue. Someone did a plot - if it continues like it is now, we'll have ~2500 temples in 40 years.

Seems like a good place to put this. I enjoy visuals like this:

Don’t you have a Koala to feed down there? 😛

It’s complicated. Much more so than both sides want to admit. NPR knows who their audience is, and so does Fox. Neither side is going to go out of their way to show stories their audience doesn’t want to hear. NPR has a liberal bias in their reporting, but since we have 10,000 news sources, their power is virtually nil. So it’s not worth getting fussy over. Bernard Goldberg, himself no leftist, said it best. “Some conservatives think Al Roker is out to get them if he forecasts rain on the 4th of July.” If you are way far right wing (and yes, way far leftwing) you’ll make things up in your head or misread them to satisfy your own confirmation bias and reassure yourself that you are correct. It saves you from having to think or ask uncomfortable questions.

I believe the proper term for NPR (or any political commentary) – political activists (specific political party alignment) is narcissistic personality disorder. Though Trump is often called out for being narcissistic (for very good reason) it is a label that fits 99.9999% of those seeking elected political office. Explanation from the Mayo Clinic: The Traveler

Totally agree. My point is, NPR is on one "side", while the chart has it looking nice and centerist. It needs to be a big handful of pixles to the left, in order to have this chart accurately display NPR's bias. You don't get to be thought of as "Middle" when you: - Suppress stories that could impact an election and bias voters against the Democratic incumbent - Suppress stories from reliable science and news sources that jeopardize a nonconservative COVID narrative - Push shaky and groundless stories about the Republican candidate being a Russian schill - Refuse to admit any wrongdoing or apologize after the general public eventually catches up and catches on to the truth. Doncha think?