Josie

SF, I am glad he is doing better. All of you are in my thoughts. Keep hanging in there dear. I know you have a rough road and keep his name in the temple. Josie

Remember that Satan was very intelligent and greedy. He chose not to follow God's plan of Salvation, because he wanted all of the credit for himself, since he would be forcing everyone to conform to what he wanted. If God would have allowed us to come to earth under Lucifer's plan, we would have gained nothing, but a body, maybe? Satan did not want us to experience pain, happiness, joy, sadness, or anything else. He just wanted us to keep going just as we were in the pre=existence feeling none of the things that our mortal bodies would have allowed us to feel. We had to come here to earth not only to gain a body, but to experience right and wrong, good and bad, etc. Without those experiences we could not have the opportunity to be a God or Goddess and we could not learn and grow beyond where we were. I believe God said that if His plan was not carried through, He would cease to be God, because He could not lie and if His plan did not come about, He would have lied. He would have ceased to be God, and therefore neither He nor us would even have been allowed to exist. God created us so if He was not God he could not have created us and we would not exist. Satan wanted to be God without working for it, is my opinion. He wanted it all and no work. No Work No Glory! Just my opinion -- Josie

Stake President in St. George got a copy of full pamphlet for every adult in the stake and told us to drop the th on the front and think of it as for the Strength of YOU! He said the only thing in the pamphlet that did not apply to us was that we were not to date until age 16. We were already past 16, so everything else applied. Carry it with us, read it, use it, and live it.

I stand corrected and apologize for the mis-information: Maybe this will help though: “Not for the Body” by Elder Harold G. Hillam Of the Seventy in Ensign, Oct 2001, 18 (this was a discription of what he had learned from a professor in his classes for medical school.) Tea and coffee were discussed, not only because of their adverse chemical effects on the body, but also because of the temperature of the drinks. The drinks were often taken so hot that, without realizing it, many individuals were drinking liquids close to the boiling temperature. Those detrimental effects were observed. “And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly” (D&C 89:9). But why do these substances act as they do? Why does one person contract an infirmity, and another in the same situation and environment never have a problem? Our renowned instructor explained that under normal conditions, the cells behave in a normal manner; however, certain factors can trigger the cells to go out of control. These cells then become fast-growing and destructive tumors that can disfigure and threaten life. The sensitivity level at which the cells respond to the triggering factor, or T-Factor as he called it, depends on the inherent nature of the individual. Some people are very sensitive, so just a small stimulus would cause the change, while other individuals appear to be more resistant. This inherent level at which the cells can be triggered to change could explain why some people live long and seemingly trouble free, while others are affected easily and early in life. Boyd K. Packer in Ensign May 1996 page 17: Members write in asking if this thing or that is against the Word of Wisdom. It’s well known that tea, coffee, liquor, and tobacco are against it. It has not been spelled out in more detail. Rather, we teach the principle together with the promised blessings. There are many habit-forming, addictive things that one can drink or chew or inhale or inject which injure both body and spirit which are not mentioned in the revelation. Everything harmful is not specifically listed; arsenic, for instance—certainly bad, but not habit-forming! He who must be commanded in all things, the Lord said, “is a slothful and not a wise servant” (D&C 58:26). BYU Answers to Frequently asked Questions: Why don't Latter-day Saints drink coffee? a. In 1833, Joseph Smith received a revelation known as the Word of Wisdom, which states that "hot drinks are not for the belly" (D&C 89:9). Church leaders later defined "hot drinks" as coffee and tea, establishing the official interpretation for subsequent generations. The Word of Wisdom was given originally to show the will of God, though not as a commandment. Abstinence from coffee has been expected of fully participating members since the early twentieth century. The main chemical in coffee that has caused health concerns is caffeine, a cerebral and cardiovascular stimulant. A large number of other substances are also found in coffee, and their effects on health are not yet well understood. abstracted from "Coffee," in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, ed. Daniel H. Ludlow, 4 vols. (New York: Macmillan, 1992), 1:289. The abstracts on this site have been prepared by BYU Studies staff and interns. Related Scriptures Doctrine and Covenants 89:18-21 I hope this helps. The Source is always the best place to get answers. Josie

First of all, it is not the caffiene, it is the tanic acid that is the problem. But, that beside, we are commanded not to drink coffee and tea. Part of the WOW is the spirit of the law. We are also commanded in that same WOW to take care of ourselves and not let things enter our bodies that should not. I am sure that if drugs and the like had been around then, they would have been there too. Coke and Pepsi also were not there then, and I think the debate on those will go on for what seems like forever. Anything in access can be bad for us. Meat, ice cream, Milk, lettuce for some people, or anything else. It is a spiritual law between us and the Lord. Some things are spelled out specifically in the WOW, and those we abstain from regardless. Some are not, and those we have to use the brain God has given us and also consult with the Lord when something is in question.

John everyone is invited to LDS Discourse as long as they go by the rules. We also listen to people's suggestions and concerns, just as we listened to you and BenRaines here. LDS Discourse does not want to take anyone away from this site or anywhere else, it is an open invitation for all to come as another place to visit and enjoy. We all come here and like this site and the people, I have came here for years, this is where I started chatting. I came to this site about 9 years ago and chatted here till it went down and then came back when I found it was up again and still come. LDS Discourse is a different site, without alot of frills, but it is a nice place to go. It's standards are high and it will see that those standards are followed, but most can find somthing of interest to them, if you are looking for that kind of site. Josie

I have always respected Traveler and enjoyed his posts. Again, I am sorry for any thought otherwise. Josie

LDS Discourse meant no disrespect to anyone or their way of worship. Due to traveler's unique situation, LDS Discourse has changed their rule to allow the use of G_d. The rule was not meant to offend anyone, and the administrator did not mean to keep anyone from coming to the sight because of their beliefs. That is the whole idea of the sight, to allow freedom of expression of our beliefs without ridicule from others. LDS Discourse wants no contention with any other site or competition. It is a place where LDS standards will be held in very high regard and no bashing of the LDS Church or any other religion will be allowed. It is not to steal people from here or anywhere else, but will give us another place to visit. You will find that LDS Discourse has listed LDS Talk on the front page of their website as an affiliate link. Josie

It is great website. Very different layout.

I too came to this site many years ago when it was a cgi site and I was like a scared rabbit that did not know which end was up. Through the help of good people here, like BenRaines, Pam, Barefooten, and others, oh and Pale, I got my feet on the ground. This site and them people I have met here and made friends with have been a true blessing in my life.

Church Institute lessons on D & C teach that these two witnesses will be from the First Presidency or Quorum of the 12 and they will be in Jerusalem approximately 4 years or 4 1/2, I cannot remember which.

I have seen it in a lot of places, big and small, and I think schools are one of the worst places for children.

You know, this was a man that had done horrible things and I agree with him being executed. But turning it into a public spectacle and it being viewed over and over in news reals is just acceptable, and there is no need for it. I undertstand some of these people wanting to be sure he was dead, but there were plenty of witnesses to testify to that and we are in a sense doing exactly what we were told all along would be done and turning him into a martyr instead of the villian that he was. And now the news is talking about the images that were captured on the cell phone and how he was called names and harrassed by the guards etc., and that just makes him even more so. As far as I am concerned, this deserved no more attention than being mentioned that it had been done and that is it. especially in this country. Let it go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't make him a hero. He is anything but and the more we talk about him and what he went through at his execution, the more of a hero we make him!!!!!!!!!!

I think there is pressure and prejudice on both sides of this issue by many. As far as a white refusing to date a black because of the color of their skin. I am white and would not date someone that was black, because we marry who we date and if I were young, which I am not, and wanted children, I would not want my children rediculed by both races because they were a mixed race and children do catch a great deal of flack over that. This is a prejudice world we live in. Too many times I think we fail to think about the reprocussions of our actions. People of all races in or out of the church tend to have feelings of "being better than" as you put it or prejudice toward others. I am not saying everyone, but many. That is why the General Authorities spent much of a Conference speaking about the problem and correcting it. If we don't listen to them, we will be held accountable for it. As far as the curse of the darker skin color, we know that this was a curse inflicted by the Lord for disobedience to his word. It is throughout the scriptures. But, we also know that that curse was lifted as he promised when the Priesthood was restored to all races. I cannot say I am better than any man that walks on this earth. We were all created equal and in God's image. We all have the same opportunity to live his gospel and receive the same Eternal blessings. Does prejudice exist in the church? Yes! Does it exist out of the Church? Yes! Is it right? NO! Is it acceptable to the Lord? NO! Will we be held accountable for it? YES! Can I say that someone has done wrong because they have married a black, hispanic, oriental, or any other race of people? NO! Does their doing that make me better than them? NO!

I remember, in last Oct's General Conference, the general authories several times bringing up the issue of us accepting all mankind as equal and not holding prejudices on either side. Not them against the caucasion, nor the caucasion against any other race and that all were equal in the gospel. This is only a summary of course of what they said, but basically that is what they said. Excuse me, I mean Oct 2005. Or else it was this springs. Not the one that just passed.

I respect the word of wisdom and what God has directed us to do through his modern day prophets. I have seen what alcohol does and how it not only effects the life of the one using it, but the lives of everyone they love or touch through their life. The same is true with illegal drugs. I have no desire to have that in my or around me. I have seen it in my family and otherwise and it has no place in my life. Smoking is a filthy and unhealthy habit and it too has now been proven to endanger those around the smoker. I am very willing to obey our prophets and Lord.

There is nothing wrong with a road trip just for the fun of it, and you are right, it has nothing to do with Heavenly Father's approval, unless something is being done against His commandments. My apology.

I am 55, never been drunk, never had a drink of alcohol, smoked, took drugs, gone off on road trips just for the fun of it, been arrested, or many of the other things that my parents, nor my Heavenly Father would have approved of. I was baptized into the church at 14 and raised myself in the Church, as my parents had instilled correct principles to get me started. I was married to a new convert at 27 and we were sealed in the temple 1 year later. I was not blessed with children by birth, but adopted 6 special needs children and spent 22 years caring for them in my home as my own. 2 have died in the last 5 years. I was divorced 8 years ago from this same man that completely left the church and adventually anything that was good in this world. Both of my parents have passed away. I am still active in the church. I don't feel like I missed anything by not drinking or smoking or having sex before marriage, or partying every chance I got. Hey, I did not have my first date until I was away from home and in college. My father was terrified that I would get in with the wrong crowd. I grew up knowing that if I wanted to live, I would listen to my parents. Don't take me wrong in saying that, I had the best parents I could ask for. Not perfect parents, just good parents that I knew loved me. I don't regret what I did not do and don't feel like I missed anything in striving to live God's commandments. I am thankful God loved me enough to help me find the gospel and have enough head on my shoulders to want it to be a part of my life. I am alone now and I don't consider those trivial things like drinking, smoking, partying, etc... missing out on anything. I don't know what it would be like to have a loving husband that truly cared about me and loved me more than anyone else in the world. I don't know what it would be like to have children that could progress normally through school and that I would see grow and be married in the temple and give me grandchildren. I don't know what it would be like watch my grandchildren grow and play with them and read to them, for I will never have them. I am not saying this for pity. I am saying this to perhaps help you understand that there are far more important things in life than a bottle of beer or a party. I am happy, I know God loves me and I know he will bless me for what I have missed in this life. Josie

Thanks SF for sharing that special story and memory with us.

My first suggestion is to talk to your family dr. Make sure there is nothing going on that you might not be aware of and see what he suggests

I taught my children the same way my mother had taught me. I told them the story of St. Nicholas and I told them the Christ's birth and how the wise men brought him presents at his birth in gratitude and thanks giving and respect for who he was and what he was to do. I talked to them about the charity that Christ has for others and the example he gave to us of giving. Then I shared with them that Santa Claus was a symbol to remind us of giving and being good to one another and that he represented the "Spirit of Christmas". HE was always laughing and jolly to remind us to be happy and thankful for what we had. He was always giving to others and spreading happiness where ever he went. His red suit reminds me of the blood that Jesus shed on our behalf and the white that trims it reminds me of how we are to be working toward being pure and clean so we can go again and be with him. I never elaborated on the commercial side of Christmas or Santa Claus. I used him to help me remind them of what they were working for. I only gave them information as they were able to handle it and only what they were able to internalize at a time. Yes, we celebrated with Santa Claus and we also celebrated why we have Christmas and how the two can tie things together for all of us.

I am with Sugar, "God" is not an appropriate screen name and is wayyyyyyy over the line. It is disrespectful to the our Heavenly Father, and the members of this site. Josie

A woman or man can not get clearance or cancellation until one has found someone else to be married too. If the man finds someone, he cannot have his previous sealing cancelled. He must get permission from the first Presidency to be cleared to be sealed to another. If the woman finds someone, she must "then" send papers to the first presidency and ask to have her first sealing cancelled before she can be sealed to another. You ask why? Because in the woman's case, if she does not find another, then she still has the blessings of her temple sealing as long as she remains true and faithful to the covenants she made. If she were to get her sealing cancelled and die before being sealed to another, she would not be able to progress in the Celestial Kingdom to the highest degrees, she would remain an angel forever. If she remains faithful to her sealing covenants then she will be given to another that is worthy of her, if she does not find anyone else here. A man cannot have his sealing to a woman cancelled, even if they have had a civil divorce, because he is responsible for those covenants that he made to that woman before God in his Holy Temple. If he is not worthy of her, then again, if she remains faithful, she will be given to another. If the first woman he was sealed too does not remain faithful, then she will loose all, and if he remains faithful, he will be given another. I am so glad that it is Heavenly Father and Christ that take care of tying up all of these loose ends....

Outshined, That is wonderful. It is great to see caring people that are willing to give of themselves for others and I know that this little child will be so blessed to have you and your wife as parents. God's blessings to you. Josie

Lindy, Forgiveness of self is sometimes the hardest forgiveness of all. We generally are the most critical of ourselves and don't seem to know when to let go. You can see that I include myself in that "we". A dear friend taught me that a part of repentance is to forgive ourselves. If we truly repent, God has blotted out the sin from his view and we need to blot it out from our own view. We remember our mistakes so we can do our best to not repeat them, but there is nothing we can do about the past, but do better in the future. We cannot change a thing in the past, so we have to leave the past in the past and go forward, rather than dwelling in the past and letting it harm the future. We are taught that we are devine sons and daughters of God. God knew that we would make mistakes. That was the whole idea of putting us on the earth. So we could learn by our mistakes. That is the whole point, is for us to learn and then do it no more. That is what makes us better people. Part of us learning to love is us learning to love ourselves. When we can love ourselves and accept ourselves as children of our Father in Heaven, then we will have much more love for others. We also find that the more we do for others, the more we love ourselves and the more we can forgive our faults and mistakes and put them in God's hands. In Oct. 2005 Conference, Elder Bateman gave a wonderful talk on the Atonement and talked about how Christ has felt our pains, our sorrows, as well as the sins we have committed. It was a wonderful talk that taught me much about the Atonement. Christ has already been through it for us, and knows exactly how we feel and think. This same friend told me that if I truly believed in the gospel and had a testimony of it, I would accept my divinity as a daughter of God, and be willing to love myself and forgive myself, and allow myself to progress and move forward. The friend said it much better than I am here, but I hope I atleast got the idea across.