prisonchaplain

I still remember when the Reagan administration (which I still love) claimed that ketchup was a vegetable. At the time I fancied myself a strong conservative and tried to defend providing minimal school lunches. As I've aged I've moderated. Sadly, for some kids their best meals are the ones schools provide. They should be filling and yummy. I suspect that a strong school lunch program would do more to prevent crime and violence than a boatload of gun restrictions. Oh...and I suspect Jesus would favor generous school lunches. 😉

I still remember when the Reagan administration (which I still love) claimed that ketchup was a vegetable. At the time I fancied myself a strong conservative and tried to defend providing minimal school lunches. As I've aged I've moderated. Sadly, for some kids their best meals are the ones schools provide. They should be filling and yummy. I suspect that a strong school lunch program would do more to prevent crime and violence than a boatload of gun restrictions. Oh...and I suspect Jesus would favor generous school lunches. 😉

I was responding to the text she quoted--the Original Post. @zil2 is correct. 

I assumed he was responding to the text she quoted - she quoted something and then wrote "s" - at least, that's what was there when I arrived in this thread.

Witch hunts are always destructive. Buzz words can be just as damaging. For example, when I taught 7th graders history last year we touched on the poor treatment of enslaved Africans. We also covered the forced treaties Native Americans had to sign--which were then broken by U.S. and state governments. Was I guilty of teaching CRT. Of course not, but THAT is how witch hunts sometimes go. Being aware of actual injustice is labeled as woke. Citing a legitimate case of racial bias or injustice is labeled CRT. Citing anything left of Glen Beck makes one a bleeding heart Democrat (or Communist). :::Sigh:::  Cancel culture is terrible--unless we're doing it--in the name of our faith, of course. 

Thank you. Contention is worse than worthless. However, young people do want authenticity. Sometimes the arguments are about preserving what is true. The difficulty is discerning what is central and what is dross. I believe Jesus struggled leaders who had the same difficulties. 

I agree with every word you said here. Of course this isn’t CRT. 
 
And welcome to the club. Unless you agree with MAGA 110% of the time you’ll be accused of being a commie. 

Witch hunts are always destructive. Buzz words can be just as damaging. For example, when I taught 7th graders history last year we touched on the poor treatment of enslaved Africans. We also covered the forced treaties Native Americans had to sign--which were then broken by U.S. and state governments. Was I guilty of teaching CRT. Of course not, but THAT is how witch hunts sometimes go. Being aware of actual injustice is labeled as woke. Citing a legitimate case of racial bias or injustice is labeled CRT. Citing anything left of Glen Beck makes one a bleeding heart Democrat (or Communist). :::Sigh:::  Cancel culture is terrible--unless we're doing it--in the name of our faith, of course. 

Welcome. I think we want the same thing (Christianity and religious faith in general to grow) but differ on how to achieve it.
 
People of all stripes seek peace in the church. I’m guaranteeing you that they’ll say or think “If they look for reasons to exclude protestant mormons or liberal christians, they’ll look for reasons to exclude me too, even if I agree with them. So I’ll go play golf on Sunday instead of dealing with it. I get enough drama at work.” 
 
Heartbreaking 

Thank you. Contention is worse than worthless. However, young people do want authenticity. Sometimes the arguments are about preserving what is true. The difficulty is discerning what is central and what is dross. I believe Jesus struggled leaders who had the same difficulties. 

The part I’m not sure you are getting @prisonchaplain is two fold. One, I want Christianity to grow. Two, I’m not advocating a change in teaching.
 
What I’m saying, and what I’m 100% correct about, is that religious belief is (sadly) in a free fall now and we’re still focused on creating more division in the ranks. It’s actually incredibly sad to me. I feel like this house is on fire and instead of calling the fire department Mom and Dad are sitting on the couch arguing about which cousins they are going invite to Thanksgiving. 

I live in the anti-Bible belt (Pacific Northwest) --an area where 67% have no religious preference. It's been like this at least since my childhood (1960s-80s). Nationwide 70% still claim to be Christian. Of course, that's not true--but it's a lot higher than what we feel.
There's is much to frustrate us. However, when the Spirit of God moves it's amazing how many respond. I believe Christianity's best days are yet to come. I'm expecting revival prior to Christ's return. If I'm wrong, come Lord Jesus, come. The harvest really is ripe. I suspect we are much like the prophet's servant. He could only see the approaching enemies. He could not see that angels surrounded and protected him. Likewise, the prophet who told God he was the only faithful one left. God said, no there were still thousands of faithful. We can't give up. We can't give in. We must dig in. 

I live in the anti-Bible belt (Pacific Northwest) --an area where 67% have no religious preference. It's been like this at least since my childhood (1960s-80s). Nationwide 70% still claim to be Christian. Of course, that's not true--but it's a lot higher than what we feel.
There's is much to frustrate us. However, when the Spirit of God moves it's amazing how many respond. I believe Christianity's best days are yet to come. I'm expecting revival prior to Christ's return. If I'm wrong, come Lord Jesus, come. The harvest really is ripe. I suspect we are much like the prophet's servant. He could only see the approaching enemies. He could not see that angels surrounded and protected him. Likewise, the prophet who told God he was the only faithful one left. God said, no there were still thousands of faithful. We can't give up. We can't give in. We must dig in. 

I live in the anti-Bible belt (Pacific Northwest) --an area where 67% have no religious preference. It's been like this at least since my childhood (1960s-80s). Nationwide 70% still claim to be Christian. Of course, that's not true--but it's a lot higher than what we feel.
There's is much to frustrate us. However, when the Spirit of God moves it's amazing how many respond. I believe Christianity's best days are yet to come. I'm expecting revival prior to Christ's return. If I'm wrong, come Lord Jesus, come. The harvest really is ripe. I suspect we are much like the prophet's servant. He could only see the approaching enemies. He could not see that angels surrounded and protected him. Likewise, the prophet who told God he was the only faithful one left. God said, no there were still thousands of faithful. We can't give up. We can't give in. We must dig in. 

I live in the anti-Bible belt (Pacific Northwest) --an area where 67% have no religious preference. It's been like this at least since my childhood (1960s-80s). Nationwide 70% still claim to be Christian. Of course, that's not true--but it's a lot higher than what we feel.
There's is much to frustrate us. However, when the Spirit of God moves it's amazing how many respond. I believe Christianity's best days are yet to come. I'm expecting revival prior to Christ's return. If I'm wrong, come Lord Jesus, come. The harvest really is ripe. I suspect we are much like the prophet's servant. He could only see the approaching enemies. He could not see that angels surrounded and protected him. Likewise, the prophet who told God he was the only faithful one left. God said, no there were still thousands of faithful. We can't give up. We can't give in. We must dig in. 

I still remember when the Reagan administration (which I still love) claimed that ketchup was a vegetable. At the time I fancied myself a strong conservative and tried to defend providing minimal school lunches. As I've aged I've moderated. Sadly, for some kids their best meals are the ones schools provide. They should be filling and yummy. I suspect that a strong school lunch program would do more to prevent crime and violence than a boatload of gun restrictions. Oh...and I suspect Jesus would favor generous school lunches. 😉

There is a Presbyterian minister I've heard who says that Christians should treat LGBT neighbors kindly. He does not endorse their behavior and has traditional views about marriage, but believes Christians are commanded to show love to everyone.
In the 1970s he was considered a liberal.
In the 1990s he was considered moderate.
Today he is viewed as an extremist, right-wing, MAGA conservative. 
His views never changed. 

Churches sometimes have problems--aspects that outsiders criticize and aspects that older teenagers and young adults find more difficult to accept than past generations did. Examples:
1. Politics are too conservative: Both of our churches lean right. The last U.S. president was particularly difficult for some to stomach. My short answer is that how members vote, despite their insistence to the contrary, is more a mark of their politics than it is a religious distinctive. The #1 reason many in my fellowship vote conservative is that they are prolife. Members will sometimes say, "I don't know how a true Christian could vote for a proabortion politician." They can say that, but there is no political litmus test in church.
2. Church doesn't do enough for the environment. My church might be especially guilty on this because we believe Jesus will return at any time. So, some members disregard environmentalism. Nevertheless, "creation care," is something Christians of many stripes embrace. We may not be the most earth friendly, but taking care of what God made is scriptural.
3. Sexual holiness codes are hypocritical and especially hurtful to LGBT. First, they are not hypocritical. Adultery, fornication, and porn viewing are all sinful. We don't talk as much about this because very few Christians are advocating porn viewing, fornication or adultery. They know it is sinful even if it happens a lot. We love LGBT folks, just as we love those who fornicate, commit adultery, or view porn. Nevertheless, if there is sin the call is to repentance--not affirmation.
4. History: The two biggest TV evangelist scandals of the 1980s were of Assemblies of God ministers--Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker. What most don't know is that both men were defrocked. We don't speak ill of them. What they do is now between them and God. As a result, some believe that they faced no accountability. They did. Rather than submit to our restoration process they gave up their ministers' credentials.
5. Overemphasis on doctrinal distinctives. Usually this has to do with our belief that speaking in tongues is the initial, physical evidence that one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This is our teaching, and the belief can be explained biblically. However, we're quick to add that when people convert to Christianity they immediately walk with the Holy Spirit, and many will enter the kingdom who have not and will not speak in tongues. 
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints faces many of these broad issues. Some can be answered fairly quickly. Nevertheless, there seems to be lingering struggles. What we grapple with is different, but there are some similarities. Call this a commiseration string.

As an experiment, ask the aforementioned young folks what they think is hypocritical about churches. Really dig for their fundamental answer (in a polite way, of course). I guarantee that you will quickly find that the large majority believe religious people and organizations are hypocritical simply because that is what they have been told all of their lives.
Ask for examples, and you won't get many. Perhaps the most popular will be "homophobia" among religious people; but of course, "homophobia" itself is a lie, a term made up not to explain anything but to smear people who hold to certain beliefs and moral standards. Explain that considering homosexuality to be an immoral act is no more intrinsically evil than considering demonstrations against abortion to be an immoral act. If you wade through the levels of argument to reach the core idea of living by a moral standard, they will simply drop the topic rather than grapple with their own inconsistency and hypocrisy. Prepare to be called lots of names, because that's their idea of solid argumentation against evil.
I'm painting with a broad brush, and you will certainly find exceptions, but what I have described is what I have found to be the rule. Today's young adults are no smarter than their parents, and have the added handicap of having been indoctrinated with a much worse, more vile background ideology.

I think this is a problem that is not actually factored in to a degree.  The point I've heard over this is that Church's regularly ignore the teachings of the New Testament.  The most recent was actually in National News (so not from Young People at all) where it was pointing out that Church's were ignoring or outright trying to teach against what the Lord taught.  The reason was that it was seen that the teachings of the Lord in the New Testament were too liberal and thus did not equate with the political ideas of the congregations.
I've heard some young folks say that this feels like Churches today are hypocritical.  They feel that the things taught in the New Testament are actually teaching something that's been termed in modern times as Religious Socialism or Religious Communism.  I've said this before as well, though I am still deeply religious and hold strongly to my Church, that the things taught and lived in the New Testament as well as the early Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints during the 19th century equated to the same ideas of Religious Socialism and Religious Communism (not to be confused with Marxist Socialism which is where a LOT of conservatives get confused about and upon).
There is something referring to a false image of our Lord but propped up by Conservatives where the Lord pushes the Supply Side rather than Charity.  This is due to the idea that many young people actually LIKE what is taught in the New Testament but see it as teaching things such as feed the poor, help those who need help, love they neighbor.  They feel that many of the people who are members of the Churches these days may pay service to those things with their lips, but in actual practice, do the exact opposite. 
This is where I think there is a dichotomy of thought in the Republican and Democrat parties.  The Republicans tend to lean more towards Moral Chastity (being more Chaste in action, no homosexual relations, etc), which is where they win over many of the Church going members.  However, they seem to be very against the idea of Charity in general as a society.  On the otherhand you have Democrats that seem to focus more on the Charity aspects, but completely abandon Chastity.  The best combination may be a combination of the two of those (Chastity AND Charity). 
Young people unfortunately (at least where I teach) seem to want to ignore the Chastity portion and try to make any and all excuses on not following it, but are all in their thoughts about the Charity parts (perhaps because over half of them are starving students).  Hence, why they probably lean more liberal in some ways and see Church going members trending towards Conservative values as not following the teachings of the Lord or the New Testament.
I see this as well.  On the religious side though, we see in Genesis 2:15 that Adam was taken to the Garden to take care of it.  He basically was told to be in charge of it and take care of it.  We can apply this to the world as well.  We should be doing our best to take care of the world as best we can (as well as other people).  I think the bigger question is how we actually can do that.  There is a lot of political raff to confuse the picture at times of what is actually true and what is not.  There is a LOT of media sensationalism that fogs up the picture at times of what actually is occurring in regards to pollution and climate change.
I think sometimes we do NOT focus enough on the more widespread sins of Fornication.  WE also don't focus as much on Adultery which is terribly rampant, but fornication is far more rampant among our young folks. 
That said, many of the young folks don't want to be reprimanded for their own infidelities in these matters, and Churches don't want to make a lot of their young folks angry.  It's safer to target the sins of Homosexuality and such because there are less of them out there. 
ALL the sins of immorality (fornication, adultery, homosexuality, etc) should be addressed, but I see a lot of avoidance in regards to fornication, though it is probably the most prevalent of all the immoralities practiced among young people today.
I'm not sure that would bring them back to church though.  They seem to already know what they are doing is against what is in the scriptures, and seem to want to make excuses on why it's okay for them to do so, or other such things.
Yes, there are similarities, though overall I think we, as a Church are doing better to a small degree on the immorality, or WERE prior to 2015.  More of our young people who were ACTIVE (in otherwords, were active in going to church and it's activities) were obeying the law of chastity (compared to a national average of less than 5% of US citizens were following the law of chastity, 95% were having pre-marital relations of that sort).  That was when we actively taught about obeying the law of chastity and certain rules about not seeing certain films with a hard top set at R-rated movies and a hard bottom of the age 16 for dating (we have since gotten rid of those so, not sure how it will go in the future). 
We know this was going to occur though.  It says in the Bible about the last days and how wickedness will only increase.  It will probably only get worse as time goes on, up until the coming of the Lord to rule the earth comes. 

Churches sometimes have problems--aspects that outsiders criticize and aspects that older teenagers and young adults find more difficult to accept than past generations did. Examples:
1. Politics are too conservative: Both of our churches lean right. The last U.S. president was particularly difficult for some to stomach. My short answer is that how members vote, despite their insistence to the contrary, is more a mark of their politics than it is a religious distinctive. The #1 reason many in my fellowship vote conservative is that they are prolife. Members will sometimes say, "I don't know how a true Christian could vote for a proabortion politician." They can say that, but there is no political litmus test in church.
2. Church doesn't do enough for the environment. My church might be especially guilty on this because we believe Jesus will return at any time. So, some members disregard environmentalism. Nevertheless, "creation care," is something Christians of many stripes embrace. We may not be the most earth friendly, but taking care of what God made is scriptural.
3. Sexual holiness codes are hypocritical and especially hurtful to LGBT. First, they are not hypocritical. Adultery, fornication, and porn viewing are all sinful. We don't talk as much about this because very few Christians are advocating porn viewing, fornication or adultery. They know it is sinful even if it happens a lot. We love LGBT folks, just as we love those who fornicate, commit adultery, or view porn. Nevertheless, if there is sin the call is to repentance--not affirmation.
4. History: The two biggest TV evangelist scandals of the 1980s were of Assemblies of God ministers--Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker. What most don't know is that both men were defrocked. We don't speak ill of them. What they do is now between them and God. As a result, some believe that they faced no accountability. They did. Rather than submit to our restoration process they gave up their ministers' credentials.
5. Overemphasis on doctrinal distinctives. Usually this has to do with our belief that speaking in tongues is the initial, physical evidence that one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This is our teaching, and the belief can be explained biblically. However, we're quick to add that when people convert to Christianity they immediately walk with the Holy Spirit, and many will enter the kingdom who have not and will not speak in tongues. 
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints faces many of these broad issues. Some can be answered fairly quickly. Nevertheless, there seems to be lingering struggles. What we grapple with is different, but there are some similarities. Call this a commiseration string.

Churches sometimes have problems--aspects that outsiders criticize and aspects that older teenagers and young adults find more difficult to accept than past generations did. Examples:
1. Politics are too conservative: Both of our churches lean right. The last U.S. president was particularly difficult for some to stomach. My short answer is that how members vote, despite their insistence to the contrary, is more a mark of their politics than it is a religious distinctive. The #1 reason many in my fellowship vote conservative is that they are prolife. Members will sometimes say, "I don't know how a true Christian could vote for a proabortion politician." They can say that, but there is no political litmus test in church.
2. Church doesn't do enough for the environment. My church might be especially guilty on this because we believe Jesus will return at any time. So, some members disregard environmentalism. Nevertheless, "creation care," is something Christians of many stripes embrace. We may not be the most earth friendly, but taking care of what God made is scriptural.
3. Sexual holiness codes are hypocritical and especially hurtful to LGBT. First, they are not hypocritical. Adultery, fornication, and porn viewing are all sinful. We don't talk as much about this because very few Christians are advocating porn viewing, fornication or adultery. They know it is sinful even if it happens a lot. We love LGBT folks, just as we love those who fornicate, commit adultery, or view porn. Nevertheless, if there is sin the call is to repentance--not affirmation.
4. History: The two biggest TV evangelist scandals of the 1980s were of Assemblies of God ministers--Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker. What most don't know is that both men were defrocked. We don't speak ill of them. What they do is now between them and God. As a result, some believe that they faced no accountability. They did. Rather than submit to our restoration process they gave up their ministers' credentials.
5. Overemphasis on doctrinal distinctives. Usually this has to do with our belief that speaking in tongues is the initial, physical evidence that one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This is our teaching, and the belief can be explained biblically. However, we're quick to add that when people convert to Christianity they immediately walk with the Holy Spirit, and many will enter the kingdom who have not and will not speak in tongues. 
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints faces many of these broad issues. Some can be answered fairly quickly. Nevertheless, there seems to be lingering struggles. What we grapple with is different, but there are some similarities. Call this a commiseration string.

I am beyond not qualified to discuss the details of this thread. Instead, consider what has happened to the larger Christian movement. It has formed into three branches.
The modernists/liberals interpret the Bible in light of modern cultural mores. Some even argue that the reader's perspective is primary.
Fundamentalists try to preserve and defend what was. They sometimes insist on the King James Version of the Bible, the singing of hymns, extensive holiness codes, and lock-step doctrinal adherence. From the second group I offer the following example: I went to see my aunt baptized in this type of church. The minister's sermon was aimed at criticizing my church's beliefs. After the service he came up, shook my hand, and told me directly that the sermon was aimed at me.
Then there are those, and I probably fit in this camp, who take the scriptures as mostly historical, mostly literal, and absolutely inspired of God. We try to engage the culture rather than condemn it. Our hope is to focus on Jesus and the Good News and not get sidetracked by secondary stuff. Sadly, we often fail.
 I'm wondering as I read this thread if much of the LDS world is also split into modernists, traditionalists, and the messy middle? 

Churches sometimes have problems--aspects that outsiders criticize and aspects that older teenagers and young adults find more difficult to accept than past generations did. Examples:
1. Politics are too conservative: Both of our churches lean right. The last U.S. president was particularly difficult for some to stomach. My short answer is that how members vote, despite their insistence to the contrary, is more a mark of their politics than it is a religious distinctive. The #1 reason many in my fellowship vote conservative is that they are prolife. Members will sometimes say, "I don't know how a true Christian could vote for a proabortion politician." They can say that, but there is no political litmus test in church.
2. Church doesn't do enough for the environment. My church might be especially guilty on this because we believe Jesus will return at any time. So, some members disregard environmentalism. Nevertheless, "creation care," is something Christians of many stripes embrace. We may not be the most earth friendly, but taking care of what God made is scriptural.
3. Sexual holiness codes are hypocritical and especially hurtful to LGBT. First, they are not hypocritical. Adultery, fornication, and porn viewing are all sinful. We don't talk as much about this because very few Christians are advocating porn viewing, fornication or adultery. They know it is sinful even if it happens a lot. We love LGBT folks, just as we love those who fornicate, commit adultery, or view porn. Nevertheless, if there is sin the call is to repentance--not affirmation.
4. History: The two biggest TV evangelist scandals of the 1980s were of Assemblies of God ministers--Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker. What most don't know is that both men were defrocked. We don't speak ill of them. What they do is now between them and God. As a result, some believe that they faced no accountability. They did. Rather than submit to our restoration process they gave up their ministers' credentials.
5. Overemphasis on doctrinal distinctives. Usually this has to do with our belief that speaking in tongues is the initial, physical evidence that one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This is our teaching, and the belief can be explained biblically. However, we're quick to add that when people convert to Christianity they immediately walk with the Holy Spirit, and many will enter the kingdom who have not and will not speak in tongues. 
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints faces many of these broad issues. Some can be answered fairly quickly. Nevertheless, there seems to be lingering struggles. What we grapple with is different, but there are some similarities. Call this a commiseration string.

My suggestion was that sometimes it's not our age that makes us liberal/moderate/conservative so much as the age of the person who labels us. I've problably gone from conservative/fundamentalists to moderate/conservative over the decades. However, the younger a person is the more likely they are to pigeon-hole me as a rabid, right-wing extremist. 
Most religious leaders care more about people than politics or ideological purity. However, even trying to keep people in the pews can be a futile effort. We had those who insisted on masking and those who opposed masks during COVID. Our approach was to obey the law but to treat people like adults. Some of the mask-insisters left and more of the mask opponents left. Some said we didn't care about the health of our community and others said that we compromised with the Antichrist. 
All we can do is keep focused on the Good News and trust the Holy Spirit to do the convicting and bringing in.