carlimac

It gives me "the feels".  (gags)
 
Also anything that's trendy that my 78 year old mother in law picks up and won't quit. For a long time it was "Welcome to my world", "Hello?". Now it's just "Whatever" for whichever word she can't remember.   Such as, "Did you pick up the whatevers at the whatever?"

To equate speech with overt violence is reckless, immoral, and false. If you were talking about speech that encouraged people to go out and kill other people, that's one thing. But you are not talking about that. You are talking about people who say, truthfully, that PP is a butcher of human babies. That doesn't encourage anyone to go out and kill people; it simply states a fact.

Ok, Godless, here you go.
 
I'm a white Christian right-wing gun-owning male.  I oppose abortion in almost every case.  I oppose PP (or any other entity that performs abortions) receiving government funds, of any kind, in any amount, whether or not those funds are directly used for abortion work or not.
 
Here's what I think about last week's PP killing:
* It is a horrible thing.  I utterly denounce the killing.
* If I had been there, I would have tried to stop the killer.
* If I knew the guy and had seen red flags, I would have reported them, or otherwise tried to stop the killer.
* No really, I utterly reject Robert Dear Jr's alleged use of deadly violence.  It's totally inappropriate.  It's the opposite of what Jesus wants from His disciples.  He is not one of me.  I utterly reject, without condition, the use of violence or terrorism on law-abiding people, even if they are practicing what I believe to be legal killing of innocent children.
* If you want to see the kind of Christian I support, think of Officer Swasey, one of the three victims that day.  When not on the job as a cop, he was a co-pastor at his church, a homeschooling daddy, and pro-life.  He didn't seem to hesitate a single second to put himself in harms way to stop the killer in the Planned Parenthood building, and he paid for his attempts to save pro-abortion people with his life.
 
How's that?

This is an unabashed falsehood.

Business cliches irritate me a little. Going forward, I will reach out and ping you an email to arrange a time to touch base and we can ensure we handle this paradigm shift.

Not words so much as pronunciations: aks instead of ask, avaidable instead of available.
 
My husband hated "these ones" (redundant, unless you're talking about "these one dollar bills" as opposed to "those one dollar bills", though possibly unnecessary even in that case).
 
In related news, I once had to resort to a dictionary to figure out how to spell shoe (and this was not that many years ago).  It was one of those moments when nothing seemed right. (The internal conversation went something like this: s-h-o-w? No, that's show. s-h-o-o? No, that's for flies.  s-h-e-w? No, that's biblical.  How the heck do you spell that word?!)

There is a fine line between being charitable to those who are struggling with this and supporting/enabling their doubt.  Somewhere in the conversations there has to be empathy for the pain, but also a strong conviction of truth expressed and a reminder of how to approach problems we don't understand. As I did this as a loving, caring aunt and cousin to a couple 30-somethings, I was patently dismissed by one and shouted at to stop patronizing her by the other.   
 
My reaction in these situations with close friends or family is to always to back off and get the you-know-what out of their way. If they aren't going to listen without coming back at me offensively, then I'm not so likely to sit around patting their heads or stroking their egos.  They are on the wrong side of this and so many other church issues right now. They aren't likely to feel the spirit when they are so put out with the leaders, criticizing them shamelessly.  I care about these relatives but they are wrecking their own lives and I think they know it. 
 
I just find so many within this 20-40 generation to be spoiled, entitled, critical and incredible cynical about nearly everything. Without fail when church issues  come up they hop up on their "it's not fair" bandwagon, complaining at the tops of their lungs. There is very little demonstration of humilty among this crowd, and at the same time they have this faux horror at the injustice inflicted by the most humble and loving of the older generations. They are know-it-alls and think the rest of us can never understand quite as deeply as they can. They are quite full of themselves in their "fairness and equality for all" crusades.  It's tiresome.  

Don't worry, they are working on making it a disorder.  Give them another year.

I disagree. I have a niece who us in favor of gay marriage and is very near to losing her testimony completely over how the church treats the subject.

I'm not sure how one can separate their religious views from their political views.  The former should guide one's thinking on the latter.

If political positions cause a person to reject core concepts doctrines, then yes, they are who President Harold B. Lee is referring to.

Iron rod/Liahona is a false dichotomy, because the thing about the Liahona is that if you didn't do EXACTLY what it said--
--it quit working.

No, I don't miss the point at all.
I agree the best course of action is probably not to call names.
Reporting the bullying to the moderators, or simply giving a little kind support to the person being attacked is probably a better course of action. 

I think the difference is in this paragraph:
 
Bullies use unsubstantiated personal attacks to denigrate their victims.  Often, they make fun of their victim’s intelligence, twist his/her words, get everyone to laugh at him, and in doing so isolates and degrades their target.  In this way, their victim is neutralized, and serves as a strong reminder to everyone of the bully’s or the bully GROUP’s power. 
 
For example, if a person points out the flaws and weaknesses of another's arguments, is that "bullying"?
 
No.
 
 If a person brings his or her own experiences or quotes scripture or studies in substantiation of his/her opinion, is that bullying? 
 
No.
 
If more than two people disagree with a given poster, are they "ganging up" on him/her in a bullying manner, or are they simply expressing their (perhaps deeply held) opinion to the contrary?
 
No.

No, I don't believe that.
There is a difference between bullying and disagreeing.
People can disagree in a kind and respectful manner.

I spent some time in the wee hours this morning thinking about forum bullying.  Maybe some on the forum, myself included, might benefit from the information I found online about forum bullying, definitions, and solutions.
* * *
 
Forum bullies are self-appointed protectors of their own sometimes twisted truth and detail. They are belligerent, in-your-face, combative, sarcastic, cynical, projecting an air of superiority, and have an extensive vocabulary they use to cow those they are addressing. 
 
Verbal bullying is their main joy in life. They thrive on it.
 
Most forum bullies are compensating for something lacking in their life, something they are missing such as respect, friends, social graces, sex, etc.   Maybe they’re PO’d because they’re bald or short. Maybe nobody validates them in the real world. Or maybe they’re just nasty people who didn’t get enough love as a child.
 
Forum bullies feel compelled to address every single thread they disagree with. They are like a moth to a flame. They MUST respond because the other guy is an idiot and doesn’t know what he or she is talking about, and someone (meaning them) must right the injustice done and squash the false information being disseminated by THAT idiot. They continue to come back and back and back until their opponent either gives up and walks away out of disgust or sadness.
 
Forum bullies probably don’t have much of a life and not many true friends.  If they have a wife or husband, or children, they most likely treat that person the way they treat people online.
 
Bullies use unsubstantiated personal attacks to denigrate their victims.  Often, they make fun of their victim’s intelligence, twist his/her words, get everyone to laugh at him, and in doing so isolates and degrades their target.  In this way, their victim is neutralized, and serves as a strong reminder to everyone of the bully’s or the bully GROUP’s power. 
 
Bullies rule through fear. Most forum members will sit back in silence because they can’t - or aren’t willing - or aren’t emotionally prepared or just don’t want to deal with an attack on THEM by the forum bully. That fear strengthens the bully. He/she knows nobody is going to stand up and challenge him/her.
 
Bullies usually attack weak or new targets.
If you come to a forum with a heavy heart, deep concerns, uncertain, or emotionally vulnerable, and there is a bully present, you more than likely will end up on a serving plate. New members  are a bully’s favorite because they are new, unproven, and do not yet have a support system. They are alone – and therefore easier to hunt-down and DESTROY!
 
It reminds me of putting a new hen into my henhouse. The leader of the pack will attack her, chasing her away from food and water, not allowing her to roost, pushing her to the bottom of the flock, killing her if she resists. 
 
Why are people bullies?
 
There might be many reasons.
Perhaps that is the way they were reared, being exposed to violence and rudeness. They weren’t reared with manners or common sense.
 
They get a thrill out of verbally beating up people online for no reason except their own twisted entertainment and feelings of superiority. For them, beating the heck out of someone is like getting points of power in a video game.
 
The most common reason bullies prevail is because nobody will stand up to them or report them.
 
Bullies are often cowards who are full of talk; immature adults who never quite grew up and need to fill an empty void in their hearts by beating people up online without being challenged.
 
How to Deal with Forum Bullies
 
SPEAK UP!
Complain to the owners of the forum.
Every single time you see a bully step out of line, complain.
Report it.
Do not get involved with name calling or sink to the level of the Forum Bully
When you see a Forum Bully attack someone, report it, every single time.
Do not stop.
Eventually, and hopefully, they will cease or be evicted.
 
Ask yourself – why are you here? Is there benefit to staying?
No?
Well, before you leave, ask yourself if it might be worth staying?
 
It might be that if just a few “nice people” start standing up to the bullies, the entire tone of the forum could brighten and transform into a place where people can find Christ’s love instead of an emotional or verbal beating.
 
Or maybe not. Maybe it’s just not worth the effort to get involved.
You have to choose.
 
Do you really want the forum to be an arena where people with problems are “put in their place? “
 
Or do you want this to be a safe place where people with problems can come to bounce off ideas, maybe find solutions to things that are eating at them?
 
Do you want this to be a place where investigators can rub shoulders with real members of the church, and get answer so their questions, even if you’ve heard those questions a million times in anti-LDS literature? Even if you suspect them of having ulterior motives. Even if...
 
If you want this to be a safe place, a friendly place, a place of Christ-like love, then maybe you might want to lock arms and speak up more often when you see people being bullied.  
 
Will I become a member of the thousands who have tossed up their hands and left?
I hope not.
I feel there is great value here and a wonderful opportunity to be a firm, but kind, example of a Latter Day Saint.
 
I've fallen short, I know.
I'm going to try harder.
 
(edited so as not to point fingers)

So many people, including active members, are letting the thoughts and philosophies of the world dictate their thoughts instead of doctrinal and church teachings.
 
Many of the negative comments I've seen on lds discussion boards on facebook have been from members who state they are active, recommend holding members.

One doesn't want to be too dismissive of anyone who turns their back on the gospel.  On the other hand, one can't help thinking of 1 John 2:19:
 
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

On the bright side, our home teaching percentage just went up. 

This reminds me of something that happened to me when I first graduated from college. I was interviewed and recommended for a technical post at GCHQ (similar to the NSA in America). Of course they have to do a lot of background checks on prospective employees - which I assumed was just to make sure I wasn't a Soviet spy (this was at the tail end of the Cold War). And since I wasn't a Soviet spy I naturally assumed this would be a formality. However, the investigation dragged on for quite some time, during which I bummed around doing occasional warehouse work and gradually lost interest in working for GCHQ. Finally a letter arrived from GCHQ saying that as a result of their investigations they would not be able to employ me.
 
By now I was determined to reject any offer of a job from GCHQ anyway, and was already making arrangements to go back to university. But the letter still bugged me: it was laconic to the point of rudeness, giving no indication of what they had against me. If there was something nasty in my background I wanted to know about it! However several letters and telephone calls left me none the wiser.
 
After a few days I let the matter go and concentrated on preparing for grad school. But it still left a nasty taste in my mouth. I still wonder now what the skeleton had been discovered in my closet!

There is a fine line between being charitable to those who are struggling with this and supporting/enabling their doubt.  Somewhere in the conversations there has to be empathy for the pain, but also a strong conviction of truth expressed and a reminder of how to approach problems we don't understand. As I did this as a loving, caring aunt and cousin to a couple 30-somethings, I was patently dismissed by one and shouted at to stop patronizing her by the other.   
 
My reaction in these situations with close friends or family is to always to back off and get the you-know-what out of their way. If they aren't going to listen without coming back at me offensively, then I'm not so likely to sit around patting their heads or stroking their egos.  They are on the wrong side of this and so many other church issues right now. They aren't likely to feel the spirit when they are so put out with the leaders, criticizing them shamelessly.  I care about these relatives but they are wrecking their own lives and I think they know it. 
 
I just find so many within this 20-40 generation to be spoiled, entitled, critical and incredible cynical about nearly everything. Without fail when church issues  come up they hop up on their "it's not fair" bandwagon, complaining at the tops of their lungs. There is very little demonstration of humilty among this crowd, and at the same time they have this faux horror at the injustice inflicted by the most humble and loving of the older generations. They are know-it-alls and think the rest of us can never understand quite as deeply as they can. They are quite full of themselves in their "fairness and equality for all" crusades.  It's tiresome.  

There is a fine line between being charitable to those who are struggling with this and supporting/enabling their doubt.  Somewhere in the conversations there has to be empathy for the pain, but also a strong conviction of truth expressed and a reminder of how to approach problems we don't understand. As I did this as a loving, caring aunt and cousin to a couple 30-somethings, I was patently dismissed by one and shouted at to stop patronizing her by the other.   
 
My reaction in these situations with close friends or family is to always to back off and get the you-know-what out of their way. If they aren't going to listen without coming back at me offensively, then I'm not so likely to sit around patting their heads or stroking their egos.  They are on the wrong side of this and so many other church issues right now. They aren't likely to feel the spirit when they are so put out with the leaders, criticizing them shamelessly.  I care about these relatives but they are wrecking their own lives and I think they know it. 
 
I just find so many within this 20-40 generation to be spoiled, entitled, critical and incredible cynical about nearly everything. Without fail when church issues  come up they hop up on their "it's not fair" bandwagon, complaining at the tops of their lungs. There is very little demonstration of humilty among this crowd, and at the same time they have this faux horror at the injustice inflicted by the most humble and loving of the older generations. They are know-it-alls and think the rest of us can never understand quite as deeply as they can. They are quite full of themselves in their "fairness and equality for all" crusades.  It's tiresome.  

There is a fine line between being charitable to those who are struggling with this and supporting/enabling their doubt.  Somewhere in the conversations there has to be empathy for the pain, but also a strong conviction of truth expressed and a reminder of how to approach problems we don't understand. As I did this as a loving, caring aunt and cousin to a couple 30-somethings, I was patently dismissed by one and shouted at to stop patronizing her by the other.   
 
My reaction in these situations with close friends or family is to always to back off and get the you-know-what out of their way. If they aren't going to listen without coming back at me offensively, then I'm not so likely to sit around patting their heads or stroking their egos.  They are on the wrong side of this and so many other church issues right now. They aren't likely to feel the spirit when they are so put out with the leaders, criticizing them shamelessly.  I care about these relatives but they are wrecking their own lives and I think they know it. 
 
I just find so many within this 20-40 generation to be spoiled, entitled, critical and incredible cynical about nearly everything. Without fail when church issues  come up they hop up on their "it's not fair" bandwagon, complaining at the tops of their lungs. There is very little demonstration of humilty among this crowd, and at the same time they have this faux horror at the injustice inflicted by the most humble and loving of the older generations. They are know-it-alls and think the rest of us can never understand quite as deeply as they can. They are quite full of themselves in their "fairness and equality for all" crusades.  It's tiresome.  

There is a fine line between being charitable to those who are struggling with this and supporting/enabling their doubt.  Somewhere in the conversations there has to be empathy for the pain, but also a strong conviction of truth expressed and a reminder of how to approach problems we don't understand. As I did this as a loving, caring aunt and cousin to a couple 30-somethings, I was patently dismissed by one and shouted at to stop patronizing her by the other.   
 
My reaction in these situations with close friends or family is to always to back off and get the you-know-what out of their way. If they aren't going to listen without coming back at me offensively, then I'm not so likely to sit around patting their heads or stroking their egos.  They are on the wrong side of this and so many other church issues right now. They aren't likely to feel the spirit when they are so put out with the leaders, criticizing them shamelessly.  I care about these relatives but they are wrecking their own lives and I think they know it. 
 
I just find so many within this 20-40 generation to be spoiled, entitled, critical and incredible cynical about nearly everything. Without fail when church issues  come up they hop up on their "it's not fair" bandwagon, complaining at the tops of their lungs. There is very little demonstration of humilty among this crowd, and at the same time they have this faux horror at the injustice inflicted by the most humble and loving of the older generations. They are know-it-alls and think the rest of us can never understand quite as deeply as they can. They are quite full of themselves in their "fairness and equality for all" crusades.  It's tiresome.  

There is a fine line between being charitable to those who are struggling with this and supporting/enabling their doubt.  Somewhere in the conversations there has to be empathy for the pain, but also a strong conviction of truth expressed and a reminder of how to approach problems we don't understand. As I did this as a loving, caring aunt and cousin to a couple 30-somethings, I was patently dismissed by one and shouted at to stop patronizing her by the other.   
 
My reaction in these situations with close friends or family is to always to back off and get the you-know-what out of their way. If they aren't going to listen without coming back at me offensively, then I'm not so likely to sit around patting their heads or stroking their egos.  They are on the wrong side of this and so many other church issues right now. They aren't likely to feel the spirit when they are so put out with the leaders, criticizing them shamelessly.  I care about these relatives but they are wrecking their own lives and I think they know it. 
 
I just find so many within this 20-40 generation to be spoiled, entitled, critical and incredible cynical about nearly everything. Without fail when church issues  come up they hop up on their "it's not fair" bandwagon, complaining at the tops of their lungs. There is very little demonstration of humilty among this crowd, and at the same time they have this faux horror at the injustice inflicted by the most humble and loving of the older generations. They are know-it-alls and think the rest of us can never understand quite as deeply as they can. They are quite full of themselves in their "fairness and equality for all" crusades.  It's tiresome.