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    classylady got a reaction from seashmore in Excommunications, sealings and Children born in the Covenant   
    I was under the impression that he would need to be baptized by proxy, but I could be wrong. Then he would have his blessings restored.  I’ll see if I can find any information on this. Children do not lose the blessing of being born in the covenant when a parent/s is excommunicated. Also, when parent’s have their sealing canceled, the children retain their blessing of being born in the covenant.
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    classylady reacted to Traveler in Temples And Protection   
    I thought I ought to respond to this post.  First I would point out that all worship and especially places of worship that are intended to spiritually educate covenant Saints of G-d in order to elevate them to a the higher state of divine being.   Anciently the most sacred place of worship was specifically designed to bring covenant Saints to Christ.  This is why Jesus said to the Pharisees to search the scriptures for they testify of him.  An ancient metaphor for temple was "mountain".  In this metaphor Moses was given for the 10 commandments and Jesus was transfigured.  The 10 Commandments are considered and essential part of the Mosaic covenant which is the "Book End" to the Abrahamic covenant.  Note that Jesus compared the covenant with G-d to the covenant of Marriage - on several occasions.  This is because the two covenants are in truth inseparable.  (but this is another discussion).
    Since I do not have time or space to address all elements of divine temple worship at this time - I will address the covenant with G-d of baptism or ritual cleansing.   When Joshua (the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek name of Jesus) brought the children of Israel to the "Promised land" (which was an essential element of the Abrahamic covenant) Joshua brought them to the river Jordan and performed a ritual cleansing (baptism) before entering the covenant land.  It is both critical and important to understand that this place of the Jordan River was the same place where Jesus was baptized by John.  Certainly not a coincidence!
    With the Baptism of Jesus we have a bridge between the ancient covenants to prepare for Christ to atone for man and the era of worship in the manner anciently spoken of when we will worship Christ as being "like him".  Thus the Church was established not to look forward to the atonement of Christ but through the atonement to become "One" with Christ and the Father.  See the Gospel of John Chapter 17.
    Without going into a lot of detail - I would mention the ancient prophesy in Isaiah (Isaiah being the revelation of all things from the beginning to the end).  Isaiah prophesied that in the last days that the Mountain of the L-rd's house (temple of G-d) will be established in the "top of the mountains" as a place for all nations to worship or to look to in worship.  Now a little bit of history.  When the Latter-day Saints (Mormons) arrived in the Salt Lake Valley they intended to establish there own State in the USA - in some ways similar to Texas with a slightly different constitutional charter.  But the enemies of the "Mormons" - that drove the Mormons from the USA would prevent it.  After many years the Mormons were finally able to get their state - their intent was to name the state "Deseret".  But their enemies at the last hour modified the state charter and changed the name to Utah.  This irony ends up fulfilling the Isaiah prophesy in no other way than by the hand of G-d himself because this is where the flagship of all modern temples of the restoration of the Last-day stands today - in the Salt Lake Valley and the name "Utah" in the native language of the Ute peoples literally means "the Top of the Mountains".  Thus the mountain of G-d's house (temple) is established in the Last-days in the top of the mountains (Utah) where by all nations that intend to worship G-d according to His holy covenant will learn to "walk in his ways".
    The Traveler
  4. Like
    classylady got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Excommunications, sealings and Children born in the Covenant   
    I was under the impression that he would need to be baptized by proxy, but I could be wrong. Then he would have his blessings restored.  I’ll see if I can find any information on this. Children do not lose the blessing of being born in the covenant when a parent/s is excommunicated. Also, when parent’s have their sealing canceled, the children retain their blessing of being born in the covenant.
  5. Like
    classylady reacted to Vort in Zoramites and Korihor   
    Your words are true, but I suspect they lead to a false paradigm. It sounds like you're saying "Both sides are to blame." This is true in the sense that the guy who drives unsafely and the guy who forcibly rapes women both contribute to the ills of society. But that observation obscures the fact that one of the actors is fundamentally, orders-of-magnitude worse than the other.
    I could spend all day listing out the hypocrisies and outright lies told and done by the Republican Party and even by conservatives in general. But to pretend that that's somehow equivalent to the evils perpetrated on a daily, even hourly, basis by the Democrat Party and the political left is an unabashed falsehood. I think that recognizing and honestly dealing with the failings of "your side" is a worthy exercise, one that is needed for any healthy, moral person or society. But to build false equivalencies between two sides is to doom us to utter failure. I have seen this sort of thing happening for at least half my life, and I'm sure it's been going on far longer than that. It is what has brought us to this point.
  6. Like
    classylady reacted to prisonchaplain in OK what happens after judgement? kind of a corny question   
    Okay, my perspective, as an outsider, probably is quite ignorant. However, I somehow got the impression that all three kingdoms were...well...heavenly realms. So, I imagine that the terrestrial kingdom is exponentially better than the telestial one, and that the celestial kingdom is exponentially better than the terrestrial one, but that even the telestial kingdom is better than our current state--perhaps, again, exponentially so. In other words, it's all good, all challenging, all Heavenly Father (through His Son or Spirit) allowing us to develop to our personal bests. It may well be that telestial living would seem pathetic to one accustomed to the higher realms. However, it is likely the most appropriate and balanced for those who will reside there. I doubt anyone will be bored--even in the outer darkness.
    [Now, let the faithful fill in the huge gaps I just left behind...]
  7. Like
    classylady reacted to Grunt in Terrified of baptism   
    That's funny (not funny ha ha but funny odd).  My wife had the exact same issue.  In the end, she opted for a ceremony with just myself baptizing her and 2 witnesses.  
  8. Like
    classylady reacted to Carborendum in Temples And Protection   
    I would urge everyone to listen to and read this GC address by Elder Bednar. It was referenced in this week's CFM manual.
    I was acutely aware of this because of my calling as Temple & FH leader.  But as the speech went on, it became more and more apparent just how important temples are in this day.  TODAY.  Right NOW!  Specifically, he talks of the protection we receive because of "Temple Worship".
    But we are prevented from attending the temple.  A part of me wonders if our condemnation for "taking lightly that which we've received" includes the blessings of the temple.  And because of that, we've had our temples taken away from us.  Without our temples, we lose some of the blessings -- which include protections -- from the Lord.
    Speaking of taking lightly... I have to admit that I have no memory of this address when it was first given in 2009.  I'm so sad.
    1. CFM manual talks of the people of Ammon who "never did fall away".
    2. Elder Bednar is quoted (from the above linked talk) as saying.
    Applying that metaphor, it implies that the People of Ammon never fell away because they regularly worshipped in the temples.  The message then is clear.  If we are to never fall away, we must also regularly worship in the temple.  (Alma 26:6).
    This is an important point that I wish were taught more often.
    Now, you may have noticed how I bolded the phrase worshipped in the temple. Here's why.
    I know that I've been guilty of just "going through a session" quite often.  And, again, it is my wife who reminds me that I need to take time to ponder, pray, and listen to the Spirit while in the Celestial Room.
    I'm just now learning this and recognizing the great blessing of the temple.  But I'm denied entry (as is the world).  Why didn't I take more advantage of the temple when I could?
  9. Like
    classylady reacted to Vort in Liberals in the Church   
    I was eight years old when President Lee gave this address. I don't remember it from that time, but I have studied it many times since. I was also aware of how words of the time were used, and became more aware as I grew up. The word "liberal" had much the same type of political connotation in American society of 1971 as it has today. When President Lee quoted Elder Widtsoe about "liberal Mormons", it's obvious to me that he was speaking in reference to those of his own day, in 1971, using the term as it was used politically.
    Throughout my life, I have found this to be almost unerringly true. I suspect it has to do with the absolutism that infects all American political liberal thought today, that their opinions are The Opinions and no others are worthy of consideration. This sort of implicit pridefulness inevitably leads to ruin. However that may be, those BYU students who proudly proclaimed themselves "liberal" in the 1980s while I was a student there eventually either left the Church or rather dramatically shifted their sociopolitical preferences. Since leaving BYU, I have seen time and again the close relationship between Saints who call themselves "liberal Mormons" and Saints who fall away from the gospel. There certainly are exceptions; I have a brother-in-law who considers himself a liberal Democrat (though I'm not convinced he really is) but who is solidly converted to the Church and the gospel it proclaims. So it's possible. But in my (non-statistician) judgment, the correlation is far too high for this to be mere coincidence.
  10. Like
    classylady reacted to Carborendum in All Callings Have Claim On Revelation   
    One of my callings is the ward music chair.  That means that I pick the hymns each week.  This has been on hiatus due to the quarantine.  But since Sacrament Service is starting up again, I just experienced something wonderful.
    The topic for the week was "The Rest of the Lord".  So, I went through a very methodical/scholarly/intellectual method of picking the hymns.  I checked them against my past log of hymn to ensure that we did not have too frequent repetition of any hymns.  I sent them in.
    But immediately after I sent them in, I was caught up in thought regarding those hymns, then other hymns came to my mind.  It was a whirlwind of thought with momentary pauses on certain words and phrases.
    Finally, the words of the hymn "How Great Thou Art" came to my mind.
    I couldn't stop thinking about that phrase.  I thought it fits the weekly topic by that phrase alone.  But most of the time, that song was about how inspired one feels when seeing the workmanship of the Lord's hands.  I'm inspired by my watermelons :).
    But I realized that my mind was being focused for me.  I was supposed to change the closing hymn to How Great Thou Art.  So, I sent a revised email to the ward clerk.
    Today, there was a talk that was based on the blog post on the Church website.  She explained the peace she feels from seeing the handiwork of the Lord.  Here's an excerpt.
    I don't know if anyone else in the ward noticed the inspiration involved here.  But I sure did.
    The rest of the Lord is to be found all around.  We just need to see it.
  11. Haha
    classylady reacted to pam in How is the Church doing handling the latest crisis?   
    For once an age comment not directed at me.
  12. Like
    classylady reacted to Anddenex in How is the Church doing handling the latest crisis?   
    Thank you for pointing out something very important regarding emotional state and the Spirit. I do not remember where I read it but it was from a church leader who said something to this nature, "Tears are not evidence of the spirit; although, tears can represent a strong emotional bond to an experience that was given by the Spirit. It is not the Spirit." The message continued with learning to control our emotions so that our message can be clear and understood.

    I had a friend in college who believed "emotion" and the "Spirit" were tied together, emotion and Spirit were one. That is dangerous. We were discussing four states: mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual. He said there are only three states, "mental, physical, and spiritual." I would say this is what you are referencing when people combine emotion and Spirit as interchangeable truths (one in the same).
    Our scriptures though create a conundrum as we find in Doctrine and Covenants 9: 8-9. As to my experience, this is where my friend and others combine spirit and emotion = burning in the bosom (an emotion). This is why I prefer Doctrine and Covenants 8: 2-3 because I have never felt the burning in the bosom but I have definitely experienced communication -- pure intelligence -- speaking directly to my mind and heart.
  13. Like
    classylady reacted to Grunt in Missionaries   
    Not sure.  The Temple is still closed.  Also, the missionary that taught me online is getting married this fall in SLC, so we may discuss going out there for that, then getting sealed there where we have dear friends.
  14. Like
    classylady reacted to Grunt in Missionaries   
    Nobody follows this anymore, so it's mostly for myself, BUT:  Mrs. Grunt finished her Temple Prep classes and was set apart this week as a Primary Presidency counselor.  
  15. Like
    classylady reacted to Carborendum in Victory Garden   
    Picture Taken Tuesday and Today.  Compare.  Sorry no scale for the Tuesday photo.  But it was about 3" long.  The one today was about 10"

    This is the same one I posted on the 30th.  It was about 7".  Today arout 15".  The curly-cue is nowhere near browning yet.  There is another one in the garden just a tad larger.  But it is difficult to get to.  So, I couldn't take a picture.

    This is the one I posted on May 29th.  I actually took the photo on the 28th (about 3" long).  Today, it is about 6" diameter.  Still not ripe. Explosive growth.

  16. Like
    classylady reacted to Carborendum in Baptisms for the dead   
    I just got a special email from Church Headquarters because I'm the Ward Temple and Family History Leader.  The relevance to this thread is that it coupled missionary work and vicarious ordinance work in one category (Gathering of Israel).
    It occurred to me that there wasn't any active proselyting (or at least it was extremely minimal) in Old Testament times.  And Jesus, Himself avoided those who were not of the House of Israel in his preaching and his blessings.  But AFTER the resurrection, he committed the Apostles and ALL Christians to go and "feed my sheep."  He specifically commissioned Paul to preach to the Gentiles.  But they were all to go forth two-by-two and perform missionary work.  Only after the Resurrection.
    I believe this is another piece of the puzzle.  Why was no missionary work done on this side of the veil until AFTER the Resurrection?  Why was no missionary work done on the other side of the veil until after the resurrection?  I'm not sure I know the answer.  But it appears that the answers to both these questions have some additional qualities in common that we are not yer aware of -- or at least no one has brought them up.
    EDIT: And why was Christ "sent only to the House of Israel" in his mortal ministry, but later opened the preaching of the gospel to the gentiles?  As far as I know, no revelation has been given on this point.  It seems we may never know.
  17. Like
    classylady reacted to laronius in Spiritually Theraputic Gardening   
    The OP got me thinking about the Fall. Adam and Eve start out in a world where the earth brings forth naturally and bountifully. Then the Fall happens and God tells them the earth will now in large measure be uncooperative but that it is their responsibility to tame it and make it do what by it's fallen nature it doesn't want to do. And so by the sweat of their brow they learn to work both with and against nature to produce desirable fruit. Eventually the knowledge of the Lord will one day fill the earth and it will become a paradise again but in the mean time we spend so much of our mortal probation simply trying to get the earth to sustain our life. Surely the Lord had a lesson or two in mind when he planned this all out. And while the Lord can use all situations to teach us I think there are some things that just can't be taught the same than while tilling the earth, many of which have already been mentioned here.
  18. Like
    classylady reacted to Carborendum in Spiritually Theraputic Gardening   
    I went to visit two families to administer the sacrament today.  So I took two containers of blueberries with me from our garden.  While I was on the way, the EQP told me over the phone that the second family had already begun meetings at the church with the Bishop.  So, I didn't need to go to them.
    When my sons heard the news, one of them said,"Great!  We get more blueberries."
    Just a month ago I would have gone along with that reasoning.  But something has changed in me as I've been more into my garden than in past years.  I told him to put all the blueberries into a single container to take to the first family.  I could feel the disappointment in their hearts.
    I told them that we are fortunate to have people in our lives who are in need.  How often do we get to share something that will make people happy?  How often do we get to do that with people who are in need?  Gardening is a wonderful thing because one cannot really grow a garden without knowing that no matter what we do, God is the one who makes it happen. 
    For the practical conservative economist in me, I reasoned that there is no such thing as asking for more because the garden produces whatever it produces. You can't  force it.  You can't ask it.  You're in no way entitled to more.  It's a matter of rationing, proportioning, & prioritizing. For the theist in me, we have a lesson about grace and works.  For all the work we put into it, God (or Nature/Nature's God/The God of Nature) is the one who makes things grow at all.  There is a certain partnership.  But in the end, God can do it without us.  We cannot do it without God.  There is a certain humility that comes from that recognition. Recognizing this, I found that I had started the garden because I wanted to eat the fruits.  But now, I'm more excited about sharing the fruits.  I'm more excited about giving things away -- especially to people who are in need.  Gardening has changed me.  I wonder what gospel parallels that conjures up .
    When I explained all this to my sons, my sons quoted."Doing good is a pleasure.  A joy beyond measure.  A blessing of duty and love."
  19. Like
    classylady reacted to Carborendum in Victory Garden   
    Thanks for the compliment.  Unfortunately, I can't take as much credit as I'd like to.  A lot of it has to do with the soil, the rain, climate, etc.  That I can't control much.
    We are in the 500 year floodplain, so we naturally get lots of mineral deposits all the time.  It is very sandy surface layer with a clay lower layer that allows lots of moisture retention and good drainage at the same time. The weather this year has been perfect.  Hot days, cool nights. Rain several days in a row, then several sunny days.  Sometimes it rained plenty at night and sunny days.  PERFECT!!!
  20. Thanks
    classylady got a reaction from Carborendum in Victory Garden   
    Wow! Your watermelon patch is really coming along, as are your other veggies. I’m rather envious. I really would like to be a great gardner,  But, alas, I try every year, and it’s hit or miss.  I’ve switched to container gardening. It’s about all I can handle now.  Next year I will have to figure out where and how to plant my Bradford watermelon seeds. I’ve got enough land, about 1/2 acre, but the soil is rocky and not the best. I will have to get it ready. I really want to try those seeds.
    We just cut up a watermelon we got at the grocery store. It’s not sweet, and as usual lately with any watermelon we buy, disappointing!
  21. Like
    classylady reacted to Carborendum in Victory Garden   
    So, here is my patch today.  Compare to the picture at the OP of this thread.

  22. Like
    classylady reacted to Carborendum in Victory Garden   
    I finally saw a couple of female flowers.  I saw two on the same plant.  I hope I only missed some on the other plant. 

    For now I would like a minimum of one full sized watermelon so we can get a real idea of the flavor and preserve some seeds.  I can hope for 8 to 10 from each plant.  But I doubt I'll get it.
  23. Like
    classylady reacted to Carborendum in What Was King Noah's Sin?   
    Short answer: Personal interpretation of the gospel and pet theories rather than the basics of faith, humility, obedience, and sacrifice.
    Long answer: From Mosiah 12...
    This is a very important beginning of the conversation.  Abinadi specifically states that they have not taught them the ways of the Lord.  They have perverted them.  Then asks them what they ARE teaching the people.
    So, as far as they are concerned, they're doing what they're supposed to do.  They teach the Law of Moses, after all. That is the Law of God.  Therefore, we're teaching right.  But what is Abinadi's response to their claim?
    It is easy to think that Noah and his priests were simply hypocrites.  I don't think so.  At some level, sure they were.  But the primary thing that Abinadi is giving them a tongue lashing for was the fact that they were not doing their jobs and preaching the word of God.  He starts his actual lesson with the Ten Commandments.  Pretty basic stuff.  Not the doctrine of the atonement or grace, or works, or love thy neighbor, or the value of work...  He teaches the commandments of God.
    And when he does, both Noah and Alma are pricked in their hearts.  I'd say because neither of them had even thought about (or taught about) the commandments in a long time.  And they were being reminded of them for the first time since their apostasy.
    We can all have our pet principles (which are true and just principles).  But we twist them in such a way that we justify our sinning against the commandments of God.  We believe in the "warm and fuzzy things" like "love thy neighbor" and excuse ourselves from ignoring the commandment to stay chaste or to warn our neighbor or to cry repentance to all the world.  And to do so, means we're simply creating our own offshoot of the Church rather than staying true to the roots.  That was Noah's great sin.
  24. Like
    classylady reacted to Grunt in Missionaries   
    Mosiah 26:3 really sums up my investigator experience.  It may be my new favorite verse.
  25. Like
    classylady reacted to Grunt in Missionaries   
    I feel you.  This is crazy.  I'm working from home and working FAR more hours than normal.  Fortunately(?) my wife is our of work during this mess so she can pick up the slack with the twins.  She's amazing.