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classylady reacted to mordorbund in Benefits of marrying for time only in the temple?
Think not when you gather to Zion,
Your troubles and trials are through,
That nothing but comfort and pleasure
Are waiting in Zion for you.
No, no, 'tis designed as a furnace,
All substance, all textures to try,
To burn all the " wood, hay, and stubble, "
The gold from the dross purify.
Think not when you gather to Zion,
That all will be holy and pure;
That fraud and deception are banished,
And confidence wholly secure.
No, no, for the Lord our Redeemer
Has said that the tares with the wheat
Must grow till the great day of burning
Shall render the harvest complete.
Think not when you gather to Zion,
The saints here have nothing to do
But to look to your personal welfare,
And always be comforting you.
No, those who are faithful are doing
What they find to do with their might;
To gather the scattered of Israel
They labor by day and by night.
Think not when you gather to Zion,
The prize and the victory won.
Think not that the warfare is ended,
The work of salvation is done.
No, no, for the great prince of darkness
A tenfold exertion will make,
When he sees you go to the fountain,
Where freely the truth you may take.
-Eliza R. Snow
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classylady got a reaction from SilentOne in Faith vs Knowledge
One of my favorite scriptures in the Book of Mormon is the simple quote that Helaman makes from his stripling young warriors: “We do not doubt our mothers knew it.” Those simple words are so profound to me. How did those mothers (and their fathers, grandparents, etc.) teach their young sons, that those young men did not doubt? The experiences the people of Ammon went through were so spiritual, and also traumatic (thousands killed when they would not take up arms to protect themselves). They would rather die than break their oath to lay down their weapons of war. These people, I believe, had a sure knowledge of the plan of salvation. They knew that to die is not the end, but they would be with God. To reach this knowledge, they had the witness of the Holy Ghost. That witness is the sure knowledge. If one has received that witness, there is no doubt.
Many of these young warriors probably grew up in homes where their fathers, grandparents and even mothers had died in the massacre of their people. Along with the surviving mothers, their fathers and grandparents, also had a hand in teaching these young men. The teachings must have been done with the Spirit. That Spirit witnessed to these youth the truth. These young men did not doubt, they knew it because their mothers (and other adults in their lives) knew it.
For myself, when I was a missionary, I personally needed to know for myself. I couldn’t just believe. I couldn’t witness and testify of Joseph Smith unless I knew. I poured my soul out in prayer, much like Enos in the Book of Mormon. My answer didn’t come immediately, but when it did, the spiritual witness by the Holy Ghost was so strong, that I could say “I know”, and I could say “I testify to you in the name of Jesus Christ that Joseph Smith did see God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ.” That witness has remained with me. And, because of that knowledge, and faith, there have been times in my life when I have received other personal revelation that I know I would not have otherwise received.
Some people are blessed with the spiritual gift to know, by the power of the Holy Ghost, that Jesus is the Christ (D&C 46:13). Others are blessed to believe in their words (D&C 46:14). I believe those stripling warriors had that spiritual gift to believe in their mother’s words. And then received the gift to know it was true—all through the gift of the Holy Ghost. When we are confirmed we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. We should try to utilize that gift by praying for the spiritual gifts we lack. There are certain gifts that I personally feel I need in my life, so I pray for those.
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classylady reacted to NeuroTypical in Honoring parents, leave and cleave, and single folk
Back in 2008, the church was doing worldwide leadership training, and one of the talks was called "teach the pattern". It asked the question "Why does the church place such a high emphasis on teaching the ideal situation of temple sealing to spouses and children, with intact 2 parent multigenerational families who all are active and sealed to each other, when so many individuals and families, often through no fault of their own, may never have such an ideal state?"
For a long time, this talk was available online, and I referred to it often, because it was a good answer. I can't for the life of me, find it anywhere any more. So I'll have to paraphrase the answer.
The speaker relayed a story about how his mother used to sew all the family's clothes. She relied heavily on patterns to measure and cut. The dress pattern had been handed down to her by her mom. If that pattern did not exist, she would have to use existing clothing to measure new shirts and dresses and whatnot. Eventually, a copy of a copy of a copy would make a pretty lousy pair of pants. But with the pattern, she could always do her best to measure and cut to size, and it usually turned out ok.
God has given us the plan of happiness, and the best way to achieve it is to be born into an intact family with two righteous parents, who raise us in righteousness, and we find an eternal spouse and have children born in the covenant, and raise them in righteousness, and the cycle repeats itself. Hardly nobody fits that bill fully. There's always a divorce, or a falling away from the church, or an adoption, or an alcohol-fueled shootout that takes 30 federal marshals to bring down one Uncle, or something. But it's important to understand the pattern and do our best.
Dang. I wish I could find that talk. It did a much better job than I'm able to remember and report.
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classylady reacted to estradling75 in Faith vs Knowledge
Recently in the Come Follow Me program we studied the Gifts of the Spirit. D&C 46
If it is a gift of the spirit "To Know" and "To believe" it seems pretty presumptuous for us to require or declare that someones "Knowing" is a false idea because they did not see with there eyes or hear with their ears... and that they Only really just believe. It seems to deny the Gifts of the Spirit.
On a more practical note... Using my example of the Sun Rising... How many times do I have to see the sun rise before it is acceptable to say "I know the Sun will rise" if I do not know why? It seems to me constant tiny confirmations adds up, but I can't say when it crosses over because its probably different for everyone.
That being said its very possible that there are some people out there are saying "I know" when they don't... and others that doubt what they know because it did not come in some powerful ways.
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classylady reacted to mirkwood in Faith vs Knowledge
There are some gospel principles/doctrines that I KNOW. I think it rather presumptuous of people to say that we cannot know some things.
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classylady reacted to Vort in Faith vs Knowledge
I've often pondered on the topic of faith versus knowledge. I considered responding to the OP at some length, but I realized that my own thoughts were unclear and muddled. So instead I'll post something short, more in line with any insights I might have.
What does it mean "to know" something? If you're a physics undergraduate, do you "know" Newton's laws? If so, what does that mean? Does it mean:
You can recite Newton's Laws? You can explain Newton's Laws? You can use Newton's Laws to solve physics problems? You have independently derived Newton's Laws based on experimental data you have collected? You grasp the underlying physical reality of the universe that leads inexorably to Newton's Laws? The above ideas represent a progression of "knowledge". At each stage, you might be able to honestly proclaim, "I know Newton's Laws!" But being able to recite Newton's Laws is not the same level of knowledge as being able to explain them, which is certainly less than being able to use them, which is a far cry from being able to derive them, which is much less than understanding actual physical reality. And what of Einsteinian relativity? If you "know" Newton's Laws, does that mean you must reject Einstein?
A child says, "I know my Heavenly Father loves me." If you ask him how he knows that, maybe he'll respond, "Because my parents told me." Is this not knowledge?
A youth says, "I know my Heavenly Father loves me." If you ask him how he knows that, maybe he'll respond, "Because I have pored over my scriptures and they affirm God's love for me." Is this not knowledge?
A young man says, ""I know my Heavenly Father loves me." If you ask him how he knows that, maybe he'll respond, "Because I have prayed sincerely, and I have dreamed and received into my heart the knowledge that God loves me." Is this not knowledge?
A middle-aged man says, "I know my Heavenly Father loves me." If you ask him how he knows that, maybe he'll respond, "Because I have seen his love expressed in my life as I have tried to follow him." Is this not knowledge?
An old man says, "I know my Heavenly Father loves me." If you ask him how he knows that, maybe he'll respond, "Because that is the nature of God." Is this not knowledge?
At what point above can the boy or man honestly say in testimony, "I know God loves me"? I suggest that he can honestly proclaim that at any of the above stages. But what if he doubts God's love? Can he still honestly make the proclamation? I don't know, but I think that's a fidgety point.
I occasionally hear people say, "A testimony is found in the bearing of it." In my younger years, I didn't really like that idea, because it violated my model of cause and effect. It seemed dishonest to me to claim a "knowledge" that only came as you said so. It seemed a form of self-deception. But as a middle-aged man, I don't agree with my younger self. I think there is wisdom in the saying.
An easy way to encapsulate this is to claim that "faith versus knowledge" is really a continuum. But I think that's too easy, not really precise enough. Rather, I think that faith and knowledge are not merely complementary, but two sides of the same coin. Faith presupposes some level of knowledge, and you cannot gain knowledge without faith.
Maybe I could have organized this mini-essay better. Maybe someone else can now. But those are some of my thoughts, for whatever they're worth.
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classylady reacted to scottyg in Faith vs Knowledge
Faith should eventually lead to perfect knowledge in something...whether the results are good or bad. However, in terms of spiritual things, once that knowledge is obtained the need for faith still exists...it does not just disappear or become irrelevant.
Example 1: in the premortal existence, all knew that our Heavenly Father was God, and that His plan centered around a Savior. Amongst other reasons, undoubtedly there were some who (even though they had knowledge) lacked the faith to accept the plan laid out before them. They knowingly chose another voice over the Father's, many likely due to having little faith in Him, or the Christ that would come. Knowledge alone did them no good.
Example 2: I, and many others, know that keeping the law of tithing brings blessings, but it still takes faith to keep this commandment throughout our lives. Even though we may pay it due to our knowledge, we are still exercising faith. Losing faith will eventually allow the natural man to take over, and a myriad of reasons (excuses) not to keep it, or any other commandment, will overpower your past knowledge.
Once we enter in at the gate, all is not done. Enduring to the end requires faith. Contrary to what many believe, knowledge is not permanent - it can be lost when you do not use it. Spiritual knowledge usually becomes lost when faith is lost.
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classylady reacted to Vort in Faith vs Knowledge
I have suggested more than once that faith is a multifaceted gem. In Ether, we learn that the brother of Jared "had faith no longer, for he knew, nothing doubting." Yet Acts 6:8 speaks of "Stephen, full of faith and power". Did Stephen's power come from his lack of knowledge? Clearly not. More to the point, 1 Corinthians 10:13 states that "God is faithful". Must we therefore assume that God is doubting, lacking somehow in knowledge? Absurd.
Faithfulness is not a condition of ignorance, but of enlightenment. True, the scriptures sometimes contrast "faith" with "knowledge"; but as I've mentioned above, that is not a uniform scriptural teaching. The Lectures on Faith talk a great deal about what faith is and how it is used. Through faith, great miracles are wrought. Think of the greatest Miracle-Worker ever, and then remember Ether 12:16: "Yea, and even all they who wrought miracles wrought them by faith..."
Faith is much more than mere ersatz knowlege, some kind of placeholder for real understanding. Faith is power.
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classylady reacted to Carborendum in Faith vs Knowledge
You probably don't realize it. But you're implying that these are mutually exclusive.
What the BoJ experienced was not merely a physical sense of God's appearance. It was a spirit-to-spirit communication of profound and eternal truth. It was "pure knowledge" that has little to do with sight.
Think about it. He saw a finger. He KNEW it was the finger of the Lord. How? How does seeing "a finger" give you pure knowledge that it is the Lord's Finger? There HAD to be additional facets to the experience beyond sight alone.
Think about it. By the definitions you're using, how can we ever have knowledge that Jesus is our Savior? That's not something that you can "see" with your eyes. it is an understanding and an acceptance of a truth that can ONLY be communicated by the Spirit.
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classylady reacted to Vort in Significance of the name Joseph Smith
I've played with the nomen est omen idea on this forum before, the thought that a person's name tells his function somehow. Mostly I use it in a humorous context, but I think there are true applications of the idea. One might have to do with the name "Joseph Smith".
Joseph was the favorite son of Israel (Jacob) and the savior of his brothers and their families. When the scriptures talk of "the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob", in every case they indicate the God of covenants. That covenant made to Abraham, that through Abraham's seed all the earth would be blessed, continued through Isaac and Jacob, and seems to have been especially prominent in Joseph. If there was one of the twelve tribes that carried on the covenant line, I think Joseph would be a strong contender for the position.
A smith is, of course, a creator, one who takes raw materials and forges or otherwise shapes them into great works. 3 Nephi 22:16 quotes Isaiah 54:16 in telling us, "Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work..."
I don't expect anyone to take my word for it, but I strongly suspect that Joseph Smith's name was not merely foreordained, but that it was chosen because of the significance of the words that make up the name. Not to get too woo-woo or anything. It just seems the type of understated elegance that so often grace the works of God. Just an idea for consideration as anyone might see fit.
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classylady reacted to Hello in Sealing/Cancelation Question
Update. We received the letter that the cancellation was granted prior to the sealing! Yay.
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classylady reacted to Jedi_Nephite in Passed the Technician Class test for Ham Radio today
@classylady After reading your post, my initial response was this:
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classylady got a reaction from Jedi_Nephite in Passed the Technician Class test for Ham Radio today
There’s a lot of variables in choosing an antenna. Where you live, what your surroundings are, hoa/pud restrictions (legally they can’t keep you from putting up an antenna, but there might be restrictions in how high), are there power lines in the way, etc. Will you be getting your general or extra class license to get on HF?
My husband is working on a fan-dipole antenna for HF. He has a Kenwood TS-850S. It’s about 30 years old. I’m setting up a base station in my office with a TYT radio and a small external power supply. Probably will be using a Potkus dual band j-pole antenna. Up until now I’ve just used my handheld Baofeng UV5r with a larger battery. Occasionally I will use my husband’s base station which is a QYT 980+, a dual band uhf/vhf radio. In my car I have a BTech 25x2, with a 19 inch dual-band mag mount antenna, and my husband has a BTech 50x2 in his pickup truck with a 30 year old Larsen dual-band mag mount antenna. In Hubby’s ham shack he also has an ICOM 2340h, Kenwood TH71, a smaller 2 meter Yaesu, and can’t remember exactly how many baofengs. I also have an old ICOM 2AT.
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classylady reacted to Jedi_Nephite in Passed the Technician Class test for Ham Radio today
Well, I passed the Technician’s exam yesterday.
I ordered a Yaseu FT-60r along with a Diamond exchangeable antenna. I plan on getting an Icom for our base station, but I’m taking more time with that as I research what I need, and how I want to set it up.
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classylady got a reaction from Carborendum in The Gospel
I think of gospel and doctrine as pretty much the same thing. I probably haven’t given it a lot of thought. And, it doesn’t overly concern me.
For me, I think about one of the rawest of emotions: grief. For many, the death of a true loved one is heart wrenching. That’s when the basic fundamental questions are often asked. Where do I come from? Why am I here? Where do I go after death? And, many people in the world wonder, is there a heaven? Is there a God?
And, what knowledge do we have as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? We know the answers to those questions. Answers, that we often take for granted. Answers that a young child who has been brought up in the church knows. It is the gospel of good news! Most in the world do not have the answers to these questions. At least not as thoroughly as we do. So, the death of a loved one is almost more than they can bear. It is still difficult for members, too, for we too grieve and mourn, but we have a knowledge that is a wonderful blessing. It helps to know that our loved one is on the other side of the veil. We know we will see them again. And, we have hope in the atonement and in the resurrection. We know who our Heavenly Father is. We are His spiritual children. We know who Christ is. He is our elder brother and our redeemer.
For those who have searched for those answers, and then was taught them: “How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!” Isaiah 52:7. What greater blessing is there than to know the gospel of Jesus Christ and living those principles and obtaining the ordinances in order to receive exaltation? I am so blessed! My testimony is what has brought peace through some nearly unbearable times in my life. And, honestly, I have a hard time understanding how someone who has had this knowledge can throw it away and leave the church. I love the gospel. I love the “good news.”
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classylady got a reaction from MrShorty in Passed the Technician Class test for Ham Radio today
I’m pretty stoked! I actually passed the exam! If you knew how little I know about electronics you would have been surprised I was able to pass. It was an all morning and afternoon class with the test afterwards. I was dismayed at the material that needed to be learned, especially as it was in an area I know very little about. The terms were all Greek to me.
My husband has had his license for over 20 years. He’s quite happy I was able to pass the test. I think he had his doubts. Two of my sons took the test with me and they both got their licenses too. Yay! Can you tell I’m excited?
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classylady got a reaction from Jedi_Nephite in Passed the Technician Class test for Ham Radio today
We have over ten BaoFeng radios in the house. They’re relatively inexpensive and not too difficult to program by computer and cable. Of course these are for VHF/UHF, which is mostly local. If your area has linked repeaters you will be able reach greater distances. The more you use your radio the more you learn. You’ll want an HF radio for long distances. Antennas make a big difference. A directional yagi antenna will get you greater distance with lower power, but is directional.
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classylady got a reaction from Jedi_Nephite in Passed the Technician Class test for Ham Radio today
Look at Hamstudy.org. It is a good resource for what you need to study for the exam. At least here in the U.S. Morse code is no longer required for the exams. But, it is a hobby within the hobby of ham operators. Back when I was a teenager, and Morse code was required, I would listen to my brother transmit and receive. I tried learning it, but didn’t stick with it. I’m thinking if I ever have the time, I’d like to learn code.
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classylady reacted to Just_A_Guy in Charity: Feeling jaded on charity
So, this may be terribly condescending on my end, but . . .
There is a staggering number of people out there whose brains just don’t work right.
It may be due to chemical addiction, or trauma in the early phases of childhood development, or bad culture, or bad genetics, or a bunch of other things. But this is just how their brains (don’t) function, and they go through life from one train wreck to the next because certain things just don’t “click”; and the ability of therapeutic/chemical/surgical interventions to correct those kinds of cognitive errors is limited.
I was at a seminar a couple years ago that made this point in a much more delicate way, with something called The Brain Architecture Game. At the time I was defending indigent parents whose children were in DCFS custody, and my takeaway (which maybe wasn’t what its creators intended) was: your ability to fix these people is somewhat limited; so don’t knock yourself out trying. If you can show kindness, and find a meaningful way to help the next generation be a little less dysfunctional than the last one, you’re doing the Lord’s work.
There’s more wisdom in the saying that “the poor you have with you always” than most of us are willing to admit.
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classylady got a reaction from laronius in The Gospel
I think of gospel and doctrine as pretty much the same thing. I probably haven’t given it a lot of thought. And, it doesn’t overly concern me.
For me, I think about one of the rawest of emotions: grief. For many, the death of a true loved one is heart wrenching. That’s when the basic fundamental questions are often asked. Where do I come from? Why am I here? Where do I go after death? And, many people in the world wonder, is there a heaven? Is there a God?
And, what knowledge do we have as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? We know the answers to those questions. Answers, that we often take for granted. Answers that a young child who has been brought up in the church knows. It is the gospel of good news! Most in the world do not have the answers to these questions. At least not as thoroughly as we do. So, the death of a loved one is almost more than they can bear. It is still difficult for members, too, for we too grieve and mourn, but we have a knowledge that is a wonderful blessing. It helps to know that our loved one is on the other side of the veil. We know we will see them again. And, we have hope in the atonement and in the resurrection. We know who our Heavenly Father is. We are His spiritual children. We know who Christ is. He is our elder brother and our redeemer.
For those who have searched for those answers, and then was taught them: “How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!” Isaiah 52:7. What greater blessing is there than to know the gospel of Jesus Christ and living those principles and obtaining the ordinances in order to receive exaltation? I am so blessed! My testimony is what has brought peace through some nearly unbearable times in my life. And, honestly, I have a hard time understanding how someone who has had this knowledge can throw it away and leave the church. I love the gospel. I love the “good news.”
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classylady got a reaction from mordorbund in Asking evil spirit to depart
Thanks everyone for your input. It has been very helpful. My husband and I are trying to prepare a Family Home Evening lesson that we will personally teach to our children and grandchildren. We want to incorporate actual spiritual experiences we have had, or our ancestors have had. We are trying to get across the blessing of knowing where we came from (who we are), why we are here, and where we go after death. I’m trying to decide if my grandmother’s experience might be too controversial. Yet, it is very profound. Some of the experiences I will be sharing are experiences we, my husband and I, and our ancestors have had as to help from the other side of the veil. These are experiences that I feel very strongly need to be shared with my posterity. They are sacred. And, I feel there is a purpose to them and it can help strengthen their testimonies. I want them to know we are watched over, and at times help is given us. But, there are also times when the Lord stays his hand. And I also want them to know the adversary is real, and we can command an evil spirit to leave our presence. I’m just wondering how much I should share, or even really go there. I’m still praying for inspiration.
Last night as I was sorting through some family history papers, I know I was led to a very specific experience my husband’s grandmother had after the death of her husband. My mind keeps flooding with events I remember being told about as a child. Some of the experiences are recorded. Others are not, such as my grandmother’s experience with commanding an evil presence to depart. My mother told me that one, and as I’ve talked to a few other extended family members, they remember being told it too, but some had forgotten until I brought it up. It needs to be recorded.
I was questioning this idea of even doing a Family Home Evening for the kids and grandchildren. Is this inspired? Or is it just my wishful thinking that my husband and I can help influence the kids and grandchildren. Some are really struggling with their testimonies. But, after finding that experience on my husband’s grandmother, I feel I’m being led. There is no stupor of thought here.
There is so much evil out there. My desire is for them to have rock-solid testimonies. For some, I’m afraid it may already be too late. Hopefully, something we say will get through to them. There is always hope. And, we will never give up. I have a 15 year old granddaughter who is already questioning her sexuality. She’s a baby! Why does she need to worry about this at her age? Kids are bombarded at such a young age with this, and made to think they need to choose. Im so tired of all this worry for my family. I’m looking forward to the Second Coming.
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classylady got a reaction from NeuroTypical in Asking evil spirit to depart
Thanks everyone for your input. It has been very helpful. My husband and I are trying to prepare a Family Home Evening lesson that we will personally teach to our children and grandchildren. We want to incorporate actual spiritual experiences we have had, or our ancestors have had. We are trying to get across the blessing of knowing where we came from (who we are), why we are here, and where we go after death. I’m trying to decide if my grandmother’s experience might be too controversial. Yet, it is very profound. Some of the experiences I will be sharing are experiences we, my husband and I, and our ancestors have had as to help from the other side of the veil. These are experiences that I feel very strongly need to be shared with my posterity. They are sacred. And, I feel there is a purpose to them and it can help strengthen their testimonies. I want them to know we are watched over, and at times help is given us. But, there are also times when the Lord stays his hand. And I also want them to know the adversary is real, and we can command an evil spirit to leave our presence. I’m just wondering how much I should share, or even really go there. I’m still praying for inspiration.
Last night as I was sorting through some family history papers, I know I was led to a very specific experience my husband’s grandmother had after the death of her husband. My mind keeps flooding with events I remember being told about as a child. Some of the experiences are recorded. Others are not, such as my grandmother’s experience with commanding an evil presence to depart. My mother told me that one, and as I’ve talked to a few other extended family members, they remember being told it too, but some had forgotten until I brought it up. It needs to be recorded.
I was questioning this idea of even doing a Family Home Evening for the kids and grandchildren. Is this inspired? Or is it just my wishful thinking that my husband and I can help influence the kids and grandchildren. Some are really struggling with their testimonies. But, after finding that experience on my husband’s grandmother, I feel I’m being led. There is no stupor of thought here.
There is so much evil out there. My desire is for them to have rock-solid testimonies. For some, I’m afraid it may already be too late. Hopefully, something we say will get through to them. There is always hope. And, we will never give up. I have a 15 year old granddaughter who is already questioning her sexuality. She’s a baby! Why does she need to worry about this at her age? Kids are bombarded at such a young age with this, and made to think they need to choose. Im so tired of all this worry for my family. I’m looking forward to the Second Coming.
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classylady got a reaction from Carborendum in Asking evil spirit to depart
Thanks everyone for your input. It has been very helpful. My husband and I are trying to prepare a Family Home Evening lesson that we will personally teach to our children and grandchildren. We want to incorporate actual spiritual experiences we have had, or our ancestors have had. We are trying to get across the blessing of knowing where we came from (who we are), why we are here, and where we go after death. I’m trying to decide if my grandmother’s experience might be too controversial. Yet, it is very profound. Some of the experiences I will be sharing are experiences we, my husband and I, and our ancestors have had as to help from the other side of the veil. These are experiences that I feel very strongly need to be shared with my posterity. They are sacred. And, I feel there is a purpose to them and it can help strengthen their testimonies. I want them to know we are watched over, and at times help is given us. But, there are also times when the Lord stays his hand. And I also want them to know the adversary is real, and we can command an evil spirit to leave our presence. I’m just wondering how much I should share, or even really go there. I’m still praying for inspiration.
Last night as I was sorting through some family history papers, I know I was led to a very specific experience my husband’s grandmother had after the death of her husband. My mind keeps flooding with events I remember being told about as a child. Some of the experiences are recorded. Others are not, such as my grandmother’s experience with commanding an evil presence to depart. My mother told me that one, and as I’ve talked to a few other extended family members, they remember being told it too, but some had forgotten until I brought it up. It needs to be recorded.
I was questioning this idea of even doing a Family Home Evening for the kids and grandchildren. Is this inspired? Or is it just my wishful thinking that my husband and I can help influence the kids and grandchildren. Some are really struggling with their testimonies. But, after finding that experience on my husband’s grandmother, I feel I’m being led. There is no stupor of thought here.
There is so much evil out there. My desire is for them to have rock-solid testimonies. For some, I’m afraid it may already be too late. Hopefully, something we say will get through to them. There is always hope. And, we will never give up. I have a 15 year old granddaughter who is already questioning her sexuality. She’s a baby! Why does she need to worry about this at her age? Kids are bombarded at such a young age with this, and made to think they need to choose. Im so tired of all this worry for my family. I’m looking forward to the Second Coming.
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classylady reacted to Carborendum in Asking evil spirit to depart
Here's a summary of all that has been already said:
The quote that Mordor provided has some insight into what happened, and what is allowed. As Jane said, casting out devils is a matter of faith in Christ, not necessarily the Priesthood alone.
I have wondered, what is the difference between having the gift of healing per the gifts of the Spirit, vs the power to heal through the Priesthood. There may be a difference in form. But what is the difference in function/power? I'm not sure there is any.
At some point (I'm sorry I don't have the reference) the Brethren decided that the fact that many people asked the question you did also opened the door to people thinking that women held the priesthood. While (as Vort said) women can hold the priesthood through their husbands, I believe it is more vicarious than by investiture or extension. So, they were discouraged from using the same forms (arm in the square and laying on of hands). Obviously there are some exceptions to this. But there is a reason why it is restricted.
So, in the end, no there was nothing wrong with what she did. But the impression you got from it was exactly why it has been discouraged in later generations.
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classylady reacted to JohnsonJones in Asking evil spirit to depart
Depends on what you consider doctrine and what era (I know this is a vague answer, but unfortunately, many things change and so a straight answer is hard to give).
Up until at least around the mid 1970s, the answer to your question would be yes. She did.
This was somewhat inferred by Joseph Smith but later reinforced by Brigham Young. The teaching was that woman could exercise their husband's priesthood in the absence of their husband, as they were one in sealing under the order of the Lord and thus under the Patriarchal and Celestial orders of the Priesthood.
We see examples of this in Church history (mostly with them doing healing, but occasionally in other matters), with the most famous being Joseph F. Smith witnessing his mother exercising this at times in his youth.
Today, this is no longer taught. It is no longer mentioned. In that light, if we go by modern Church resources, it is a much harder question to answer. If we go off what we can normally read, it is generally inferred that these things are not performed by woman and thus any priesthood actions such as the blessing of the sick need to be done by the Elders of the Church or those who are of the male gender (and it should be noted that previously, it was normally okay for woman to utilize the priesthood, normally only in the absence of their husband, though they could also aid in a priesthood blessing if there was no other to assist in the home, for example). My guess is that in the modern day church, that the general feeling is that this is not done, and only the men who have had the priesthood granted to them are the ones to do any of these things.
However, there is not a lot of guidance for or against a woman doing this, but the lack of instruction of teachings on it seem to infer to me that generally woman do not perform any priesthood functions for any reason in the Church.
A recent talk by the Prophet has tossed some mystery on this though. In this, he inferred that the priesthood was not actually how it has been taught, thought, or instructed as in the past. There is no need for it to be passed on by the laying on of hands for many things, and thus EVERYONE has the priesthood who is a faithful member, including woman. However, he did not really elaborate what that means regarding what woman can do exactly with the priesthood that they supposedly have. It has been inferred later that woman have priesthood authority over their church positions, and if we see being a mother or wife as an official position in the church, that would infer that they have priesthood authority to do whatever they want in the Home...BUT (and this is a BIG BUT) that is really an unknown and has not really be specified.
In addition, the latter inference from the talks are actually directly countering talks that were given regarding the priesthood and how it operates all the way up until at least 2012, which can be confusing to many. As per many of those talks, only men have the actual priesthood in the formal sense of church ordinances, blessings, keys, and powers. This means, it is unclear in our present day church what the priesthood allows woman to do or not to do in the current church doctrine except with the idea that woman in leadership positions (such as Relief society President) can have some authority under the priesthood and as such the power to utilize their own preisthood (as per Nelson and other speakers after his historic talk a few years ago).
That said, when threatened by such as you describe, I think any Saint can call on the Name of the Lord to ask for help and to try to cast such a thing out from the home.