estradling75

Homosexuality is not a forbidden topic. You can post about it. It is a however a very volatile topic, with lots of strong opinions due to various reasons(some of which you mentioned). This usually results in quick descent in to rule breaking, or locking up into just venting without any real discussion going on. Which will get them closed.

I carry alot more then funeral expenses. I carry enough clear out the mortgage/other debts, with a chunk left over. I figure I'll still have a job I'll just need enough to get me to the point were the youngest kid can start fending for themselves/enter school and it not unreasonable for the older kids to watch them for a few hours.

Save it offline... The subject in question will return and get another run... Just like all the other times its come back. When it does you can post your uplifting insight... then watch as the thread degrades until the mods close it.

This thread was over two years dead... the OP has not been on in over a year therefore thread closed

Sorry for confusing you by combining an answer to Carl62 in with what I wrote to you Which is a claim based on anecdotal evidence and small sample size. Plus the phrase 'too many' and 'pressured' are way open to mean anything Except that both the Bishop and the Stake President interview those that go on mission and part of that interview is to find out worthiness, which includes why they are going. And for those that don't go, the Bishop is the President of the Aaronic Priesthood, part of his job is to be working with the boys and finding out what is going on. So no, your claim that the church doesn't know is not supported. Given the system in place it seems very likely that they will have a very good idea. Comments like this do not refute anything. But they add more to the pile of those things that you have said that come off critical of church leaders You have been refuted... in as much as any opinion can be. Your supporting evidence is show as nothing.

Sorry Saintish I used your post as a springboard into the whole discussion... not just your part of it. Rebaptism was common, then it went away. I presume for good reasons. We have different standards now, and it is better to work within the current setup

To what point... to repeat a very sacred saving ordinance just so that someone can feel better? Instead of teaching them correct principles, and encouraging them to develop the faith necessary to stand no matter how life and members of the church might fail to go as expected

Ok the facts that you use to support you opinion of to much pressure leading to crappy missions and falling away from the church. Personal experience and the experience of what other people have told you. Totally anecdotal evidence of a very small sample size. Yet you claim that this is happening in large worrisome numbers. But facts aren't the only thing. There is also the authority. The god given power to speak in his name and interpret his will. Well you have it for yourself and for your children. But baring other church calling, this is the sum total of the strength and proof of your opinion that you claim is 'right' Your opinion is up against the current status of how the Church runs things. The Church has the number of young men of missionary age. It knows the numbers that fall away, it knows the numbers that go on missions, it knows the numbers that leave missions early and why. They have cold, hard, facts of what is really going on. They also have people at each level that have the god given right so speak his will to all those at that level. So they have both facts and authority to correct problems. There is plenty of evidence that they respond to changing conditions both in retention and missionary work. That they are not afraid to council, advise, rebuke, or change things when they feel it need. Thus the current status is their opinion on what it necessary. Given the facts each person gets to judge on if they think your opinion on what needs to be done or the church opinion on what needs to be done is more likely to be correct.

Because with every claim that you make that the Church should 'do something' you are casting a stone at leadership of the church. You are the one that made the link to the story of the adulteress. If you did not mean to imply that there is a leadership fault somewhere then back down on the demand that they fix it to your liking

Wait wait wait... You are seriously putting yourself in the role of Christ. And the Prophet of the Church and GAs in the role of the corrupt leaders of the time who allowed it to happen... And you can't understand why we think you might have a bit of pride going on?

Please define 'any pressure' because I think we are taking pass each other. As a parent I feel it is my responsibility to make sure my kids understands what the Lord expects of them. This is includes but not limited to Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Gift of the Holy Ghost, Priesthood, Tithing, Word Of Wisdom, Chasity, Service, Temple Work, and Missionary work both general and full time. If I don't teach them then they will learn from more worldly sources and then I will have failed my primary duty toward them. (Talk about pressure) But the moment I tell my kids what it right and expected of them there is pressure. It is unavoidable and inevitable. The only way to not put 'any' pressure on your kids is to not have any standards at all. Now is there a problem if we don't have the kind of relationship with our kids where they can come to us with their questions, concerns, and doubts. If they don't think they will be understood or listened to then we have failed in an entirely different way and it needs to be corrected. If when we see them wavering all we do is pound on them to 'do the Right thing' then I consider it undue pressure and I acknowledge it can happen. But lowering the standard is not the way to correct it. You correct it by fixing the relationship so you listen and help them through it (Which is by far a harder thing to do)

If the parents and various youth leaders are not currently doing this then they are FAILING... Its not like the mission program is new or unexpected. Generally speaking young men should be prepared to go at 19. There is slack up to age 25 for support of individual needs and circumstance.

I would not put in on the level of adultery and murder either... I would put in on the level of potentially hindering someone else spiritual growth. Either from not reaching the people you would have if you had gone worthily or hindering because you are unworthy or unfocused while you are out. And that is serious. The repentance process is the same for any sin, recognize that it was wrong, forsake what you have done wrong, try to make amends as much as you can and seek out help from church leaders if need. Carl62 You ask what is the point... Seeing no benefit, but remember the whole point in this life is to see if we will do all things which the Lord commands... For those that don't go or choose to not do it while there... The answer comes back as a pretty big no. They can repent of course, and get back on track. But if they don't this could be a point were the Lord is separating the Wheat from the Tares. And that is kind of a brutal process no matter how you look at it

I am going to take it a bit farther then Vort does... For a worthy young man going on a mission is a commandment... Yes I said commandment... Put it in stone under the 10, type commandment. For those making the claim that you have no choice but to obey commandment, I would like you remind you of the very real possibility of sin, which comes from breaking the commandments. And I think that is really what this discussion about pressure, and expectations boils down to. Some people in the church are very self righteous and judgmental when it come to pointing out the flaws and mistakes of others. And a mission age young man that doesn't go is an easy target for this kind of gossip. Even well meaning people will be curious as to why. And lets face it, if you don't go you are going to be feeling guilt, and even the most well meaning question can be taken wrong when a person carries such a burden.

Since I think the idea of 'damaged goods' has been dealt with already I will move on to another part. I have heard many single sisters complain that a good (unmarried) man is hard to find. I don't know how that works out demographically for your area, but I do know that the general trend is in that direction. So much so that single sisters have been promised that as long as they remain faithful no blessing will be denied them, even if it takes after this life to get it. I would highly encourage you to grab a hold of that promise and make it yours. Focus on taking care of your kids, focus on taking care of you and your faith and spirituality. Then if at some point in the future some man enters your life, you will be ready, if he is good and faithful and right. Or you will have the strength, power and faith to reject him if he is not. As beneficial as having a man around to help out would be, if you make that your focus, you run the risk of pushing out of the way or ignoring other important factors in your desire to reach that goal.

Please note that anyone that breaks the temple/marriage vows... Also voids the promises at the same time. If they can't keep the promises they made, then they can't keep you either. The letters and the paperwork are to document the process and to make sure things are done in order. But no matter what is said and done in the paperwork, nothing there can repair the broken promises, and restore the blessings. Only true repentance that invokes the atonement has that power.

Interesting... Could you switch your choice of religious affiliation in your profile? It shows you as Mormon / LDS / Christian. We like having people of other beliefs (or lack there of) around here. But the wrong profile info can cause confusion in the minds of many people you might interact with.

She changed her mind once before... There is nothing saying that she will not change her mind again. You married her, as a partner to work with, while going through the struggles of life. This is one of those struggles. Perhaps your marriage will not survive, I don't know, that is between the two of you. But I do know that you should not give up until you can go to the Lord in prayer and with total honesty say you've done everything you can to save your marriage.

Maybe you should ask her

I am one of the anecdotes... I hear alot of people saying age is a factor, but I think that is more of a mask for what really is the factor. I think the real factor is maturity. Maturity is not a factor of age but it does in many cases grow with it. But you can also have people that are really mature for their age and people that are really immature for their age.

OWLs are the name of the tests given in Harry Potter

For all practical purposes your bishop is official as it gets. If he says wait a year then you are waiting a year.

I would like to thank everyone who gave their input. It looks like the questions have come to stop so I am going to close the thread to prevent derailment. This doesn't mean I think all the questions have been asked, (I know better then that) If someone has a question that has not been asked yet and didn't get a chance to while the thread was open, feel free to PM me with it. I'll add them to the list for Ask Gramps. If I get a steady stream of PM about this I will reconsider the closing of this thread.

Looks like the questions submission has slowed down. I'll give it another day and then wrap things up to pass to the Ask Gramps team.

For me it means I am responsible for making sure the things that my family needs to have happen, happen. I don't necessary need to be the one to do it, just that it gets done.