LDSJewess

The Paris Hotel followed by the Bellagio are my two favorites. They aere so huge and self contained with shows, shopping malls pools and spas that you could literally not walk outside and have a complete vacation. Vegas is pretty expensive though so don't plan to find bargain shopping at any hotel on the strip. Food buffets are stuill a buy for eating but many of these newer hotels have full restaurants that can get pricey as are the shows. But if you have planned and budgeted for a Vegas vacation you will have a blast. After the sun goes down and everything is lit up, take a ride up the Stratisphere, take a walk down the strip at night as each hotel has a show onto itself before you even walk in the door (their way to lure you inside). There are pirate shows, waterfall extravanganzas, you name it. Someone already suggested the Hoover Dam and while you are there take in Lake Meade as well. There is loads to do there. As for the weather, the hotels I meantioned have misters surrounding their gardens, outdoor restaurants and pools which bring that hot and dry temps down to almost outdoor air conditioning.

I remember this being done in the first ward I belonged to although not necarily the 5th Sunday. I did like it though.

I think the issue of why people have reluctant or negative thoughts about the LDS church is not because if the religion per se, but because there are sacred things that are not revealed to the general public; so they become focused on the "secrets" that they don't know. It is no different than the feelings people have about the Masonic Lodge or the Shriners (my husband is a member of both). Although these two organizations do not call their rituals sacred, they do have rituals and customs that are done privately and not openly to the public. So the public sees them as a "secret" cult like organization. If people do not seek truth then they do not know the truth. And if they don't know the truth, then indeed it is hidden or "secret" from them. Perhaps for very good reason, as if people do not seek to understand and don't understand, then they are simply not ready for higher knowledge. When they are ready and they seek truths with an open mind and pure heart, then things will be revealed to them. Unfortunately there are thse that prefer to take the easy road and not commit to gaining knowledge and understanding, and instead they just come up with their own stories. If they are still in a state of fear and apprehension then they are simply not ready to seek and know what is true.

I think after reading all these posts the bottom line is if you buy your garments directly at the Temple, then you are asked to show your recommend. Then again, if you are at the Temple it is likely assumed that you have a current recommend. When you order on the website or if you order by phone, then they just ask for your membership number, and of course looking up your member number would show if you were endowed or not.

I was about to say the same thing regarding obtaining legal counsel. Not knowing what you think could have happened it is hard to assess, but the fact that your child had seizures and retinal hemorrhage is not in and of itself a diagnosis for shaken baby syndrome. Yes, those are symptoms but so are a numnber of other possibilities. One of my grandchildren died at the age of 3 months. No broken ribs but the other symptoms of seizures and retinal hemorrhage were present. When he stopped breathing he was rushed to the hospital and the nurses kept referring to "his injuries" which confused me immediately because he had not incurred any injuries, just seizure and stopped breathing. But they were basing the possibility of shaken baby injury by the retinal hemorrhage which was present in the exam. My daughter and son in law were questioned over and over by the police in the hospital before the baby was even pronounced dead. As it turned out the medical examiner in the autopsy declared the cause of death to be "postural asphyxiation" which appearently was caused by the baby being at an age where he could turn over half way but did not yet have the strength or coordination to right himself which in turn cut off his airways and the seizures and the retinal hemorrage were symptoms of this event. Lack of oxygen can cause this and it can even be found in babies that die from SIDS although not as ccommon of symptoms. This very tragic event was traumatic as it was to the parents and our entire family, and although we realized the police had to do their jobs especially in light of so many real abuse cases. But the investigation makes the tragedy even more traumatic. Sometimes the system wants immediate answers and are too quick to accuse. Had my grandson not died there would have been no autopsy and we we were told that the causes of what they thought to be "injury" may have gone undected. I hope that you can have the cause of your baby's symptoms thoroughly investigated and legal counsel help as well because not knowing what happened will put a stain on you and your family. Also if it can be truly be determined what these symptoms were, you can avoid them in the future as well as monitor the new baby too. Children that have symptoms like this can be prone to SIDS in some studies, and siblings can inherit similar symptoms. This of course is providing there were no actual injuries, even unintended ones, but it is worth looking into. As for the financial needs and counseling needs you have, be persistant with your Bishop and Stake President. Don't worry about looking needy. We all could wind up needy at one time or another. Right now you are in need. Perhaps in the future your life experience will come in handy to help someone else in need. One more thing. Please do not feel less of a member because you are new or a convert. The LDS church is one of the strongest mission churches there is and converts are plentiful. We were all new at one time or another, and many will reach out to you if you reach out as well. As for the ride, ask people. Don't be shy about it. If you were in my ward and asked me, I would not hesitate to offer the ride and I am sure many others would as well without being asked by the Bishop. Also find out who is in charge of Visiting Teaching and make it clear that you need a visiting teacher. And of course turn to Heavenly Father and pray for strength and answers. You are not alone. You and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Hi, I'm the original poster, and I thank all of you for helping me get answers for my questions. We had been inactive for a nunmber of years and upon coming back to church, I took someone's advice and asked the Ward Clerk for my membership number. He gave me a copy of my record. I was endowed but since I was inactive for a time do not have a current recommend. In any event, I went to the LDS.ORG website and called them on the provided 800 numbder on the site. I gave them my membership number and ordered my garments with no problem and they have since arrived. For someone else that mentioned the new Carinessa fabric, I took a chance and ordered them. I love the fabric and the fact that the chemise tops do not have seams across the bust line. I found that sizing ran a little large but with the help of the order person I was givent the correct sizing advice too. Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Susan Lordi artist of the Willow Tree Sculpture Collection. I have growing family of her pieces.

I actually learned this from my early days of Judaism, but it applies as well to my faith as a Latter Day Saint. There is a Hebrew prayer translated into English that is: "Let the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be acceptable to you O Lord........." I was taught to question absolutely everything and that everything was open to discussion and the sincere quest for answers, but from a viewpoint of faith, those questions and words coming from our mouth, and thoughts in our hearts and minds should be of respect and reverence and acceptable to God Our Heavenly Father. I think only then do we receive the answers that we seek. They may not be the exact answers that we hope for at the exact time we wish for but we will receive answers and thus our knowledge and wisdom will be increased and our faith strenghtened.

Mistie, First of all welcome back. Facebook is a complicated forum with its good and not so good issues. The good thing about Facebook is it allows you to stay in touch with a lot of people at many different levels in a minimal amount of time. The not so good part is that often too much information is posted on such a public forum, giving others the opportunity to offer unsolicited comments and opinions that are not welcome. I would simply say "Thank you for your concern, but this is a personal issue regarding my faith and not something that I wish to defend or debate." And then leave it at that. Any further dialogue can be responded with no response, or the message delete button. It it begins to border on harrassment, then perhaps the "friend removal" optional is in order. I also agree that such messages should be first saved to file just in case you encountered an issue regarding your rental arrangement. Other than that, if you "friend" someone on facebook then treat them as friends, and expect them to treat you accordingly. Friends are people that support you and uplift your spirits even when they do not necessarily agree with you.

Those of you hwo are on this forum that are older (as in old enough to be the parents of teenagers), can perhaps relate to this. I once heard a speaker ask when addressing a middle age adult audience: "Would you choose a young person right out of high school to plan your career for you." Would you choose a young person right out of high school to select a person or make a decision that would effect the rest of your entire life?" And of course just about every one in the room nodded in understanding and agreement of what the speaker was trying to convey. The fact is we live in a society that often pushes people into marriage long before they are mature enough to understand what marriage really entails, no less parenting. Girls before they are out of high school or college are encouraged to marry and the carrots are beautiful white dresses, flowers, celebrations, gifts, bridesmaids to give the bride special attention. Mnay young brides are caught up in the wedding part but not the marriage part. The same happens with pregnancy. Baby showers, gifts, celebrations, and loads of attention. So the mommy to be is caught up in the carrying the baby and having the baby and all the attention that goes with it, rather than all the trials and work raising the baby will take. They we have the young man. Often does not finish college so has to struggle in work and careers that are less than his highest potential. Instead often these very young men who often have not even supported themselves completely are faced with supporting a wife and children. Also the young couple (and I even have read it here on this forum as well) make statements about how their husband or wife does not give them the "attention" they need. But if you have a young man having to support a family and a young women needing to care for children, all this attention is more romantic fantasy than reality. And then there is the lack of maturity regarding the intimacy of their relationship. Having little to often no experience, they have no idea what to expect and what they even want to expect. For the sake of chastity, parents and older adults say you will know what to do when you are married. Sheeesh. Animals instinctly know what to do too but animals do not attatch emotional and life long relationships to mating either. And since the could lacks education and maturity, they become frustrated and too often think about the grass being greener on the other side. My suggestion for a happy marriage that really lasts for a lifetime and beyond is to focus on education first. I hear a lot about how people can make a good living without a college degree. That is true but a higher education is not all about career training and money (although that is a perk to college education). A minumum four year degree after high school will allow a teenager to gain a sense of maturity and have a clearer understaning of the world and what it takes to be successful in ones livelihood as well as in the home and family (it is all one package). It also givs young peopl;e the time to think about what they want in life and it allows them to get past the teen age hormone rushes and dramatic emotions and take the time to decide what they want in life so they can make better choices in a spouse and find some one who wants what they want and what goals they want to pursue together. 51 percent of marriages end in divorce. The younger the marriage the more likely they join the statistics. It is often said and I believe it to be very true: "You cannot meet the needs of others until you have met your own needs." If you are going from Mom and Dads home to your own with your spouse, and if you are hoping that your spouse will "take care" of you, then sorry to say you are heading for disaster. I know this will not be a popular post to the young because hormones and emotions drive you to impulsive choices. But if you spend your money or your parents money on a good education so that you can take the time to gain maturity and the skills you will need to become a mature and responsibile, self assurred adult, then you will be able to have a much better chance at being one of those couples that lasts. The poster above said that often the second or third marriage is the one that lasts. That is beacause they are mature and experienced and have learned what it takes to make a marriage last.

Some wife, Ok I am old enough to be your granny and I have been there and done that so here is some advice to you both. Copu it, share it with you hubby and give this some real though. Then if you truly think changing both yourself and the situation with your husband does not work, then re-read and closely follow the advice of Just-A Guy. First of all regarding your husband. You said things could be worse. You are right, you could wind up in a hospital or dead. Sorry but many husbands that are mentally abusive escalate down the road in their behavior. Not caring for your well being and not being concerned that you were sleeping in a car, and with holding funds from you IS ABUSE and it is also against the law. BUT here is where YOU need to change. No more marterdom and self abuse on your part. The household money belongs to both of you and allowing yourself to go to a homeless shelter or sleeping in a car when there are resources at your disposal is SELF ABUSE. In addition voluntarily ramaining in a mentally or physically abusive environment is also SELF ABUSE. You may not be able to change the poor behavior of your husband BUT you CAN change how you respond and react to his behavior. For that matter "Throwing a dog out for peeing on the carpet is animal abuse." So you need to first understand and fully recognize what abuse is. As for counseling, yes go to LDS Family services. And also look into legal counsel to see what your rights are. It is not necessary for your husband to go to counseling, but along the way it will need to be made clear to him by you, a counselor, or even the police, that he cannot legally throw you out of your home. And if you are asked to leave tell HIM to leave if he doesn't want to be near you. Since he is the primary income worker, then it would be easier for him to acquire a new place to live. But if you must move out for your well being, (or for that matter if he leaves), then he will likely need to pay you support. Apparently you husband does not realize that beyond the emotional and spiritual aspect, marrage is a legal and binding contract, and you cannot just say it is over because you don't like the person. Your husband has responsibilities that will be made very clear to him if a separation of any kind ensues. What ever happens, In the event that this issuie cannot be resolved then even after a divorce if that happens, I cwould continue counseling so that when you are ready to pursue a happy and healthy marriage in the future, that you will first have the self esteem tools to not choose the same kind of person and make wiser choices for your self and any possible future children as well.

Yes, it is perfectly ok to pray even when you don't believe. But you might want to pray on your own too and start by telling God exactly what you posted here. And then pray for help with your unbelief. There is no shame in that. As for your grandparents, I can tell you that I am a grandparent too, and there is not much grandparents have not felt and experienced at one time or another that you are feeling now. Having the opportunity to spend a vacation with your grandparents, and having the opportunity to really talk with them heart to heart and soul to soul will be an amazing experience for you and for them because they have been where you are. Please don't lie to them about how you feel. They will not stop loving you if you do lie, but your time with them will be so much more enriching if you can talk with them from your heart. Tell them you have been struggling with your beliefs, and tell them you have not prayed in a long time and you are not even sure how to pray anymore. And then ask them to help you and teach you to pray. Trust me, grandparents will be more than happy to be understanding and want to guide you and teach you. It is the nature of a grandparent. When your vacation has ended you still may not be a believer, but you will have had a much more open and loving relationship with your grandparents. Then again they just may show you through their exmple that there is indeed value in prayer. Have a wonderul vacation and enjoy your time with your grandparents, prayers and all. :)

Bytor, I believe it is definitely a parenting issue (perhaps to a full degree). Not knowing the entire story of course, that makes it a little hard to comment and give accurate advice. But here goes with a few assumptions since I don't know the full story. First of all I am assuming the problem young man is not the son of the Bishop. You did not indciate that he was so I will assume that is not the case. The Bishop is responsible to uphold the standards of the church, but this is not an easy task when the offending person is still a minor and the parents are not dealing with the problem. I agree with Classy Lady that the young man cannot be ostracized because it is important to love, support and guide other members. You say that there are issues with the law of chastity and drug use. Are these things going on to your knowledge on church activities, outings and Temple trips? If so then this indeed is serious and perhaps if the Bishop is unable or unwilling to act upon it at least by holding meetings with parents or coming up with a plan of disciplinary action, then you and others that need to have this addressed may need to go beyond the Bishop and speak with the Stake President. A long time ago in another ward there was an issue that was serious regarding a family in our ward and the Bishop would not act upon it, and indeed it was brought to the Stake Prez. If there are people who will not bring their families to activities because of this, then you and these families need to get together and follow through impressing the seriousness of the matter. Just remember to do it in love and understanding. I tend to read the profiles of those I converse with online (I will add more about myself very soon), but you describe your self in detail and that you have faced challenges earlier in your life. Just handle the situation in a way that will help to guide this wayward young man toward the Gospel and not away from it.

Dravin, I got to tell you that in my experience it is Jews that do more questioning about just about everything and research just about everything in much more detail than any other group of people I have encountered. But Jews are human and they have to leave some things to speculation especially in the event where things are not open knowledge. In the Jewish culture, there is no baptism, cleansing, immersion or similar for the dead, BUT they are very familiar with immersion ceremonies because Jewish converts undergo a very similar immersion ceremoney to baptism. They don't call it baptism per se, but it is pretty much the same idea. If one converts to Judaism, they immerse in water much like a Christian baptism, so this is not something Jesus just came up with nor is it unique to followers of Jesus. Since Jesus was a Jew he knew thias ritual among Jews as well, so immersion+conversion in the frame of reference of a Jew. Secondly, Jews since the beginning have been fastidious about keeping records of anmes and who was the son or daughter or who and what tribe and so on and so on. Records are a huge deal to Jews. And Jews are aware that Mormons investiagte records of people all over the earth. The holocaust records were gathered, recorded and maintained by Jews, so naturally if Mormons search these records, then if they do ordinances on the names, then it would stand to logical reason that Mormons after performing ordinances would record and maintain a record of the ordinance. So again a Jew's frame of reference would be about how they view record keeping and the importance of it. No one is foolish enough to think there could be more than one record or copies of records etc: but the issue is posterity. When decendants way down the line are searching for their own family history, what records may they come across? None of us can know for sure how that plays out because we are talking about possibilities in our future. To a Jew (and I am telling you how they think of it), is like if a person dies as a Jew and the family places a Star of David on their tombstone or a memorial plaque, but then somewhere down the line and places a cross on the tombstone or errects another memorial plaque with a cross. I know Mormons don't do this. I am only saying that Jews are not asking to have their dead left out of ordinances becauser of hatred or bigotry toward Mormons or any other religion. No they don't fully understand, and unless you are a Temple Worthy Mormon to witnmess it, even some Mormons would not understand. Perhaps the greatest concern for just about any Jew is having their identity or memory erased. That is what the Nazis tried to do. I think in their minds, any non-Jewish ordinance involving their names is a sophisticated way of erasing their memory and identity.

You may know this BUT THEY DON'T. They don't go to the Temples to see the work done unless the became members of the LDS church in life and became Temple Worthy in life. The problem is that Jews believe this because they assume that theeir records and information is obtained from public records and somewhere it is indicated that ordinances have been done. They also are concerned that hundreds even thousands of years from now there will be records that may be mis-construed that they were baptized into anotheer religion and that their posterity may think that they were no longer practicing Judaism. The problem is not hatred, and intolerance and the problem is not boigotryu on the part of either Jews or Mormons. The problem is in lack of understanding. The fact that the ordinances are sacred to Mormons and not open to public view makes it even harder to understand to non-Mormons. The important part is that we all must maintain respect and tolerance for the choices that each individual makes.

Ok I think I see what the problems is on how Jews view this: It is the we count temple baptisms in our membership count Now I do understand that a deceased person baptized by proxy is not considered to be a member, but correct me if I am wrong, that the LDS church DOES indeed keep a record of a name including birth, death and possibly proxy baptismal dates???? Is this not so? We have gone round and round on this issue, but the issue is not whether Jews believe or disbleieve that proxy baptism can effect them spiritually. It is all about the name and the remembrance of their name throughout posterity for many many generations to come with their name being identitfied as a Jew. The other reason is that Jews were in the past forced to convert to Christianity or be killed which of course still strikes a very raw nerve. Some Jews have thought of prozy baptism as something akin to the forced baptism of Jews practiced for centuries in Europe during the Middle Ages. But the primary reason that Jews oppose the idea of proxy baptism is that they feel it disparages the memory of a deceased person which can obscure the historical record for future generations. In addition it is thought that when a Jew is baptized by proxy, the door is open for all of his deceased ancestors to be baptized as well. And if their baptismal records place before the public a revisionist view that these deceased Jews were Mormons, even though it is not a religion that they accepted in life, it askews the records for future generations of Jews for many generations to come. Jews are taught to be committed to enumerating descendants, but would feel this would be difficult as they fee that records regarding the baptisms would distort their family ties and their historic links to Judaism.

I have a few sincere questions about this thread as well as othert threads on this site. 1. What exactly is your definition of porn? It has appeared that pron definitions have run the gamut from girls wearing bikinis on the beach, waitresses in tanks and short shorts (as in the Hooters) thread, and everything from scantily clad people to internet "porn action" videos???? I find the seeming definitions to be extremily varied and hard to make comments when it is not defined or defined in such a varied way. 2. What is meant by porn addiction? Again defining porn would help but are we talking about people liiking at a Playboy mag or equivalent on the web, or oggling a girl on the beach, or frequenting adult theatres, or soliciting prostitutes? I hate to sound so naive, however perhaps it is my age and culture but I have never met ANYONE in my entire life that I knew was a porn addict. Then again as a women I don't discuss my intimate life with my BFF, my female relatives or anyone except my husband since that aspect of our life is PRIVATE. And I would be willing to bet that he does not discuss our private life with anyone else either. Furthermore my husband and I trust and respect each ther enough not to feel some need to investigate into each others personal business. We each have our own computers and we neither of us invade each other's privacy by checking online to see what sites the other visits. We don't even check each other's bank accounts except when we file join tax returns. We are happy with our personal and intimate relationship with each other, but frankly I have no idea if my husband has ever visited a porn site on the internet. I have never seen any magazines laying around but I don't ransack his closet or his car or personal space, and he repects my personal space as well. I do know that our marriage is satisfying and monogamous and we know each other and trust each other not to have an affair. In my personal opinion if a spouse has any habit or activity that THEY have an issue in overcoming, they can obtain counseling or whatever they need to do to overcome their problem. But if a spouse is trying to force behavior (or lack thereof) on the other person, it shows a great lack of trust, and it also is taking on the other persons potential problem upon herself. I guess my advice, assuming this is the occasional visiting of adult internet sites, that otherwise have no interaction with another person (such as chatting with a person from a porn site????), and the marriage is otherwise good, satisfying and mutually respectful, I am not sure if looking for a problem is constructive. Just my opinion of course and it would help again to understand what is actually meant by pron and addiction to pron since variations in definition can make the eresponses variable as well.

WOW you have so much good ahead of you that I am thrilled for you! I got married right out of high school and had two kids and wound up divorced when my oldest was 6 and youngest was an infant. From then on I spent a lot of time just trying to keep us fed and sheltered. When my youngest was in 5th grade I was 35 years old and went to my community college to take a creative writing class. A counselor somehow talked me into taking 12 credit hours. Two years later after meeting all the core requirements, I transferred to a four year university and earned my degree just a month shy of my 40th birthday. Did I acquire debt? Of course and that was a struggle since it took a very long time to pay back student loans. The best part was while I barely got through high school on c-minus's I carried a 4.0 in college and I believe that is because I was ready for college and I was investing in my time and investing my finances knowing I would be paying for it. This made that degree all the more important and cherished in my life. I loved it so much I got really involved and became the Vice Presisent of the student body. My kids cheered me on all the way and I inspired them to value higher education. Just do it and enjoy the journey. You are an entire decade that I was when I stated college for the first time. One word about the financial aspect. You may want to let you husband know how important education is to you. Think about it; if he has enough money without you working to support a family (if you could have had children), then there is enough to pay instead for your education. If you actually put it on paper, it would cost as much to raise a few kids over a four year peiod as it would to go to college if you did not have kids. Now about kids. If you decide to ever adopt children please think seriously as to WHY you want to adopt. Adoption is not and should never be about YOU or that you WANT to be a parent. Adoption is a free willing dedication to knowing what the child NEEDS and WANTS and that you are committing to care for and raise another person's child. That child may forever feel a connection to their birth family regardless of how loving you are and how good your home was or whether they even knew or will get to know their birth family. You must be prepared to adopt as an act of unconditional love to a child, NOT to fill a need within yourself. Wishing you all the best.

Ok just to get this straight though. Using the op analogy, do you think that if you had a loved one who was a soldier that died in Iraq or Afghanistan, that Muslems would take his or her name and do a religious ordinbance on them because they liked them?????

I would be offended beyond words!!!! I don't believe one iota of the Muslem religion, but I would be infuritated if I had a son or daughter who was killed in Iraq or Afghanistan and then Muslems took their names and desecrated their names by performing an inititory right over them. I have the same very strong opinion regarding Muslems that are trying to build a Mosque at ground zero. Jews do not hate Mormons. They have a very live and let live attitude and tolerance of other faiths. But the live and let live thinking is that they do as they wish others can do as they wish so long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others. One thing I may add in this series of conversations is that Jews do believe in a conscious afterlife. Mormons believe in a concious afterlife. So if we all believe that life and consciousness does exist after physical death AND that death is merely an event and the extension to our current lives, then why is it so hard to believe it is different doing something involving the dead as the living. We would not take a person of another faith by the arm or carry them to the Temple in their sleep and baptize them, so why is it ok to do so when someone is dead? Just because they are not in this life? But they are alive just not here. I have to say that if when I was investigating the church almost 20 years ago, I came across a congregation that thought of me as a hater because I was mindful of the feelings of the Jews regarding how they wanted to preserve their idenitiy and their memory in this life, and affter their death, I would have not joined the church. I think it is important for ALL people to be mindful and respectful of the feelings of others regardless of whether or not they are in agreement. It is true what they say about the discussion of religion and politics. These things are very personal and passionate to people. I believe that as we are taught in the LDS church to show a good example. We can live by example and we can do ordinances on those that do not oppose it. But to judge the minds and hearts of a peeople and assume that they are bigots and haters because they want to be FREE to practice their own religion in this life and the next without and interference is not setting a good example at all. I have been reading a lot of terms from people that say Jews hate Mormons and Jews are bigots. But what I am seeing is anti semitism in it's most simple form. I don't believe for a moment that is what the Church would want us to do. The LDS church has graciously complied by agreeing not to baptize holocaust victims without their permission. If it is the churches decision, then why are members that still want to take issue with it.

Water about $75 a month and power about $200 a month, no gas, approx 2,000 sf 2 people Tampa Bay area.

I think that when people accuse us as just believing blindly, they don't understand the concept and meaning behind obedience or the concept of our desire for eternal progression. What has always worked so well for me is that I think of Heavenly Father as a literal Father or parent. When I was raising my children I would expect them to follow my rules and guidelines (like commandments), and if they followed them the result was positive. Not just that I would be happy they obeyed me, but also because they would learn, grow and progress as a result of them following my guidence and choosing to obey. We can take this down to it's simplest form. Let us say my child is 3 years old and I command them that they do not run into or play in the street. I don't give a reason why, I simply expect them to obey, which of course as we all know is for their own good. It is better at this point that the 3 year old simply follows my command blindly because their mind is not ready yet to comprehend the consequences (or in biblical terms the eyes are not open). If I tell the 3 year old not to play in the street because I command it and they are to obey without question it will work out much better than saying a car will hit you and you will wind up dying. A 3 year old has little to no concept of what dying actually entails. When the child becomes a little older, the command and teaching can change from "Don't go in the street" in the street, to "look both ways before you cross the street" Bt the time a child is 6 or 7 they have a little better concept of what being hit by a car could do. Although death may still be abstract to them, they are more conscious of getting hurt. By the time that child progresses on to becoming a teenager, we allow them to get a learners permit to not just go in the street, but actually drive a car in the street that they were once told to stay out of. Now the command changes with the progression to obey the speed limits and laws of the road and watch out for children playing in or crossing the street. Each rule or call for obedience is given to us according to our level of progression. Obedience is just a part of the learning process. We will eventually learn why it was important to obey. We can question why we must obey, but it is often easlier and more proficient if we do simply obey. Reasons may not be easy for us to understand and if we feel we can't grasp the reason to obey, then we may fail to obey, and our disobedience can get in the way of our progression or cause serious consequences for us. As we continue to progress, we will no doubt be given more challenges. If we show to our Heavenly Father that we are disciplined enough and responsible enough to obey him in faith, then we can progress to taking on more responsibility and the receiving of greater blessings. Kind of like showing our parents that we are obedient and responsible enough not to run into the street and risk harm and eventually we are responsible enough to drive the car.

Opps goes to show me not to judge. I thought Vort stood for the def. in the Urabn Dictionary of: To "pass wind while doing a leg motion of extreme intensity to create additional sound and scent. LOL Actually I have more curiosity about Vort's photo then his name since the photo and profile don't seem to match. But then again I don't have a photo posted at all, and I am sure that Pam does not really look like a sugar bookie. LOL My user name is boring in comparision but I admit to not being all that creative with creating user names. So LDSJewess is pretty much self explanatory. I am Jewish and I am a member of the LDS church.

Chaplain, I think this topic is perhaps one of the most distinct differences between the LDS church and mainstream Christianity. And some Christians that do not fully understand this are those that think the LDS church is false or even cultish. In reality, yes LDS believers do believe that we are sent to earth to learn and be a a state of progression to become like God. To become perfect as our father in heaven is perfect. I believe Jesus walked the earth also be be the example of this. I kind of think of him as the big brother who already accomplished what his little brothers and sisters had not yet matured and prgreessed enough to become. Remember Jesus healed people, raised the dead, performed many miracles and he said" "These things also shall you do also." Now of course he was saying this to a throng of people who had not yet progressed to a thorough understanding of this. Before the church was restored and when Christianity was under Roman rule, (no separation of church and state back then), it was considered blasphemous to even consider we could speak directly go God, no less become like God. What a complete mess that would have been to the rules of the Roman Empire if the citizens who were subject to the Emperors rule actually believed they could progress to become like God. The important thing to know is that we must remian humble and open to the teachings that will allow us to progress. I expect this will be a very long progression. We understand that progression takes a lifetime and beyond. We are not believing that we are just going to pray and read scriptures and go to church and suddenly wake up and become perfect as God. But the end result over much time and progression is not only possible but probable. I believe that is Heavenly Fathers ultimate plan, but it is in his timing, not ours.

Vort, Since we are all mortals there is no way that you or anyone else can speak for another human being in this world or the next on what they do or do not believe. Just because a Jew does not belong to the LDS church does not mean they absolutely dis-believe the LDS ordinances can or cannot touch a person. Jews are not so black and white in their thinking and beliefs as you seem to be. Jews are highly encouraged to seek and study for themselves. There is no specific creed or dogma among most Jews (save perhaps the most Orthodox that are quite the minority). Jews are for the most part open to theory and think in terms of possibilities. Although the majority do not believe in a literal hell as many christians do, they do believe in life after death which can most possibly and even probably include a full consciousness and personal identity of themselves, their name and identity with other Jews. It is why the naming of a Jew is so important and why lineage is also important to a Jew. One thing that is highly impoetant to the majority of Jews is the REMEMBRANCE of their dead ancestors. A Practice called yahrzeit is when a living family member or dear friend will light a candle over the name of the deceased on the anniversary of their death. It is a way of remembering their name. A prayer called the Mourners Kaddish is recited in remembrance of the deceased. It is not a prayer for their soul. It is a prayer to honor God in their memory. The reciting of their name and remembering their name is extremily important. There is a specific day of REMEMBRANCE holiday set aside for Jews who perished in the holocaust called Yom Hashoah. At this time many Jews make candles or get them from synagogues and Jewish Community centers and label each one with the NAMES of the murdered ones. They then light the candle and say the Mourners Kaddish which is a prayer NOT FOR THEIR SOUL but to HONOR GOD IN THEIR MEMORY since the murdered Jews may not have family or people around to say the Mourners Kaddish for them. Again the name of the deceased is important because as the other poster stated, that is all they have. Their name is their constant even when there is no one to remember them as they were in life. There is a very heart warming story of a man who just before his death in the gas chamber siad that he hoped that "his people": Not his family sindce they were also about to die, but his people the National of Israel, fellow Jews, would say Kaddish and REMEMBER HIS NAME. Not people that remembered him opersonally but his name. It is that important. This has absolutely nothing at all to do with LDS or being LDS. It is an important ritual. Even though I am a member of the LDS church, I want upon my loved ones to observe Yahrziet after my own death and say the Morners Kaddish and honor God in my memory. For Jews this gives comfort to the surviving family and for many it is believed it also gives comfort to the deseased as well. A Jew's name and the memory of that name is very important. It is what Jews have that they hold dear whether it is etched on a yahrziet wall in a synagogue, or remembered on the inside cover of a prayer book, or spoken verbally by another or merely scralled on a sheet of paper. Now back to the baptism ordinances. Vort, WHY would it be important for you to submit the name of baptize by proxy a name presented to you someone who did not give their consent or whose living family members opposed it? Why is it so important to YOU? I ask this especially since the Church has agreed not to baptize holocaust victims per their request and/or the request of their relatives still living. Believe me when I come across a fellow Jew that tells me they would be fine with me performing an ordinance, I would be proud and honored to be able to be a part of it. And I would also likely still recite the Mourners Kaddash for them on the anniversary of their death. For those that have expressed that they do not want their name submitted for baptism, OR even if an athiest Jew asked me to not recite Mourners Kaddish for them, I would refrain from doing that too because I believe that truly loving our neighbors as ourselves as Jesus taught us to do; means to also honor and respect their wishes, and to leave the judging of them to God. And there is no honor in calling them derrogatory names or accusing anyone of bigotry when they simply are not comfortable with having their precious name and identity (and yes it is precious to them), for the sake of you feeling superior in your thinking. It simply serves no good purpose.