Colirio

Ah yes… the statistics. The graphs. More third and fourth hand info again. Go to a hospital like the ones I work in frequently? Ok. Done. I received a different story than the one you presented. Instead - - What about the graphs that show how many of those healthcare workers in hospitals that refuse to get the vaccine in the face of such “OVERWHELMING” evidence? https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210628/huge-number-of-hospital-workers So much so that they are willing to lose their careers over it in multiple states such as: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/us/more-than-170-houston-hospital-workers-suspended-over-refusing-vaccine.amp But these have little to do with the logical disputes that I presented. You claimed that no serious voice can be raised about the effectiveness of the vaccine. I raised logical questions for which you offered little explanation. You doubled down on mainstream statistics that didn’t specifically address my questions of logic. Instead, you actually bring out an additional question of logic where COVID deaths have significantly dropped. But then no correlation is presented as to how these numbers of deaths have dropped more significantly than the percentages in which people have been vaccinated. To be clear, I am not saying whether anyone should or should not get the vaccine. My whole point is that there ARE questions related to the “effectiveness” of the vaccine that are not being addressed. Just because you refuse to entertain them does not make them go away or that those who do should be dismissed.

Huh? I would say that logic alone casts doubt on its “effectiveness.” Remember, all of the “effectiveness” that we hear is third and fourth hand at best. WE aren’t performing the experiments. WE aren’t documenting the results of testing. WE are simply relying on the information that is being passed on to the general public. Information that has, in several instances, changed direction as further testing has been performed. 1. The effectiveness of the vaccine does not mean that you won’t get COVID-19. - This first one has been stated over and over and has been proven true again and again. I have witnessed firsthand several people in my ward who have been vaccinated become sick and hospitalized with COVID-19. If the vaccine was effective in keeping the vaccinated from catching the sickness, then there would be no further need of masks or social distancing once vaccinated. 2. The symptoms will be lessened for those who get the vaccine who then catch COVID-19? - Is there a quantifiable way to judge this statement? Because we were told for a year that the mask mandate was in place because we could be asymptomatic. In other words, for one year, we had to wear masks because we could have the virus and not even know it. How can our symptoms be made less than zero? - So, if the symptoms are individualistic in their severity, how can any study “prove” that the symptoms would be lessened by having the vaccine prior to catching the sickness? Is there a quantifiable study that can judge the severity of symptoms an individual will have before vs. after a vaccination? So, if by logic alone the above statements are disputable, then by what measurement is the vaccine so effective that no serious voice can be raised against it?

It’s a shame that as soon as something becomes political, the scientific understanding of that thing becomes obscured. Instead, it seems that many individuals only seek confirmation bias. They find research that supports what they WANT the truth to be. I’m not sure that any one person, agency, or group can definitively state the truth of COVID numbers as these statistics have been purposely obscured by both well intentioned and sinister-minded individuals from the start. I would assume that those making decisions for the CES are doing so prayerfully and with as much love and concern for the students as they can muster. I am also sure that they mistakes and err often, just like the rest of us.

I wholeheartedly agree. For me, I keep coming back to what war we are actually fighting. What is the overall goal and what does it mean to win? I would assume, as we are members of the church, that exaltation is the goal. As priesthood holders, our goal is to get everyone else there with us. If that is the war being fought, over the souls of men and women, then things that don’t work towards that goal are either distractions at best or tools of the enemy at worst. For me, liberty and freedom from tyranny can certainly be valuable tools in alleviating the human suffering and conditions inherent from a fallen world. But those are only a means to our end goal. (And to be quite honest, it seems they have been rare throughout much of history.) So, are liberty and freedom worthy battles to fight? The Book of Mormon teaches that they are, but with the caveat that we also love our enemies and do good to them that hurt us and pray for those who despitefully use us in the process. In other words, our hostility towards those who oppose us put us in jeopardy of falling short of our main goals. So, it seems to me WHAT battles we choose to fight are less important than HOW we choose to wage them. And, as I tend to become distracted and angry when it comes to certain political issues, it is probably best that I avoid them lest I should be choosing which hill that I spiritually die on.

And that is my point. It’s not the hill that I’m willing to die on because, quite frankly, there are far more important concerns for my family. (Not of COVID vaccines, but of whether my child should go to BYU-H! 😁) To your point: I would say that when confronted with any choice in which a policy exists, for which I refuse to bend, I am left with three options. I can fight, I can leave, or I can adhere. If I am forced into a corner where no other alternative options exist, then I either fight or adhere. All of these options have consequences that I should weigh before making an important decision. So, to circle back again, the question remains as to whether this is the hill someone wants to die on. Because, IMO, getting a vaccine most likely isn’t the real issue for those wanting to make their stand here. Rather, I would assume that they are actually desiring to stand and fight for a deeper issue. (Ie. Removal of liberties, rebelling against social norms, rebelling against religious authority, rebelling against the opposing political party, standing up for religious ideals, simply wanting to bash the church, etc.) But, perhaps it is just that simple for someone. Maybe they have determined that this is the issue of their lifetime. This is the final line in the sand and they absolutely refuse to cross. And there is just no other school that should even be considered except BYU-H. I am certainly not their Master or their Judge. It just seems to me that a re-focusing of priorities might be needed. (That is not to say that I also don’t need to reprioritize the things in my life!)

To me, this is the crux of the issue. In matters of righteousness, there can’t really be compromise. No unclean thing can enter the Kingdom of God. God sets these boundaries and commandments and only He is Judge. In all other matters of good/better/best there will most likely need to be compromise. A happy marriage is a set of compromises. A happy family requires compromise. Politics is a set of compromises. So, to keep things in perspective, I have had to acknowledge that in social issues, whether decisions are poor, good, better, or best, there are going to need to be compromises. And in this case, ‘vaccination requirements’ is not a hill I want to die on. (Pun executed in poor taste only somewhat intended.) Because we so often think of the church schools as being intertwined with God’s doctrines, we tend to look towards the decisions they make as ways to more closely align with Him. In reality, those decisions are mostly just sets of compromises between the righteous desires of the Saints and the ideals of a fallen world.

You will have to train them how to endure boredom another way unfortunately. Seriously, as a teenager that went with his dad, two hours was a long time. My spiritual cup (thimble-sized at the time) was full in about 3 minutes at most and the rest of the time I was looking for ways to pass the boredom. To be fair, I also lament not being able to take my son to general priesthood meetings. My guess is that the Lord has other ways He wants to edify His young men preparing to serve missions.

What suppressor are you running? That was…. exceptionally quiet.

Some thoughts on the matter... I suppose that I also instinctively fall in line with @Vort’s way of thinking on this matter. However, as I thought about how the church leaders view these matters, it led me to thinking about it in terms of how alcoholism is discussed and viewed. The world tends to associate healing from our base level desires by identifying oneself as the problems and addictions we face. For instance, it is not uncommon to hear someone say they are an “alcoholic” and haven’t had a drink in X number of years. Likewise, it is not uncommon to hear evangelicals refer to themselves as “sinners” when preaching. I suppose then that, due to the commonplace discussions of LGBTQ in the world currently, we should not be surprised to find such self-identifiers within the church as well. In my view, as we know that the Lord has the power to change our hearts and we become His sons and daughters as we strive to be like Him, we should also identify as such. We covenant to take His name upon us as new creatures. I believe THAT is how we should not only identify ourselves but also how we should view ourselves and others. That being said, I suppose it is wrong of me to judge those who self-identify as their problems. Their addictions and issues might plague them to the point to where they truly believe they ARE that trial. Hopefully they are able to allow God to change their natures and eventually be healed.

D&C 42:45 Thou shalt live together in love, insomuch that thou shalt weep for the loss of them that die, and more especially for those that have not hope of a glorious resurrection. I have always read this verse in assuming that due to our love, we would weep from sadness at their momentary loss. A couple of reasons come to mind: Our loss of companionship for the time is a reason to weep. For example, my mother cries every time our family leaves her home as it will probably be a few weeks or even months before we see them again. Thinking on what other service that person might have administered to others is also a reason to weep. How many more lives would they have impacted in a positive way had they been able to stay just a little longer? This is especially true of parents who pass with younger children. How much wisdom might they have imparted? Love that might have been grown through our experiences together. As our family relationships are so important that the Lord has provided a way to keep them forever, it just makes sense to me that not having them around is in itself a reason for sadness.

I agree, @Suzie. It is a terrible tragedy that is being allowed to happen. However, the solution isn’t complicated. At least not to me. 1. The path to legal immigration needs to be fixed. This is number one. It needs a major overhaul in its requirements. The requirements should include an appointed oversight committee, appointed by elected officials, that reviews the cases, with random sampling to determine what is working and where the slowdowns/corruptions are occurring. This, unfortunately, has become a bureaucratic mess on purpose. Many have used this “mess” as a way to line their pockets by prioritizing those who have money for bribes. 2. The Nephites protected their borders and I believe this just makes good sense. Part of the reason there are massive groups of people arriving there after wading through the desert, paying coyotes to smuggle them in, or literally climbing the walls is because it is available. Our borders are not secure and so people take their children there in hopes of giving them a better chance at life. This is, quite frankly, an awful carrot on a stick. Take away the option and this will stop. This has the added bonus of helping to keep traffickers of various “goods” being filtered through a more manageable border system. 3. If we fix number one and two, then the third option needs to include paths to citizenship. Military and/or government service seem like fairly obvious paths in addition to expanding the education of various trades at the same time. This could even potentially be done on state levels where the states themselves create paths to citizenship. Perhaps I am over-simplifying things. Maybe I’m just flat out wrong. But from what I can see, we don’t seem to have any other options and what we are doing isn’t working.

Close to a good ending... Spoiler ahead: The fact that the little metal knob wasn’t given to Grogu was a major bummer.

Despite how wonderful and inspired it is, the US Constitution is the means to an end, not the end itself. The ultimate end goal of mortality is to be exalted in the Celestial Kingdom. Our ultimate priesthood duty is to get everyone else there, too. The Jaredites fell to wickedness. The Nephites and Lamanites fell to wickedness. Likewise, most of us are familiar with Moroni’s warning of secret combinations. But another warning that he offers is: Ether 2:9 And now, we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity. 10 For behold, this is a land which is choice above all other lands; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God. And it is not until the fulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are swept off. 11 And this cometh unto you, O ye Gentiles, that ye may know the decrees of God—that ye may repent, and not continue in your iniquities until the fulness come, that ye may not bring down the fulness of the wrath of God upon you as the inhabitants of the land have hitherto done. 12 Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written. So, if you are asking what can be done to save our people and our liberty in this country, my answer is that we trust in God and keep His commandments. Likewise, we encourage everyone else to trust in God and keep His commandments. The further we stray from Him, the closer we are to being swept off. If we trust Him and keep His commandments, the promise is that we will prosper in the land.

To be fair, this is the main issue with MOST so-called “journalists” these days. News is more info-tainment than ever before. And nobody takes them to task based on their erroneous reporting. If a journalist was caught lying or misreporting in years past, they would have lost credibility and most likely their job. Nowadays the wagons of their political “team” get circled in a tighter pattern around them when their journalistic integrity is brought into question.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/brian-kemp-georgia-brad-raffensperger-signature-audit

I am grateful to have been blessed throughout this year with steady work/income. I am grateful for having a job that gave me time to spend with my family each day instead of having to travel or be awake only when they are sleeping. #GiveThanks

I really just come here to get a feel for how the members of the church view the happenings of life and the world. Many of these topics aren’t broached in real life discussions due to their potential volatility, so it is helpful for me to see how other members view these things. That being said, I simply don’t have the energy to back-and-forth about topics in which I clearly have the better informed opinion. 😜

I am grateful for family history work. I have discovered many things about my family that have filled me with joy, sorrow, and the Spirit. I am grateful for the gifts of the Spirit, especially charity, as they have filled my life with meaning and purpose. #GiveThanks

I am grateful for the health and strength that my family enjoys despite the challenges we have faced. I am very grateful for the blessings of having a family sealed for eternity in the temple of God. I cannot imagine not having this blessing in my life and love my family so much. #GiveThanks

I am grateful for the liberty, comforts, and technology that we have in the world compared to ages past. I am grateful for having the priesthood so readily accessible in the world. I am grateful for having temples that dot the land. #GiveThanks

I’m grateful for the relationship that I have with my Heavenly Father. I’m so grateful to Jesus Christ for His atoning sacrifice and example. I’m grateful for my wife and family and that we have a happy home life. #givethanks

I found an interesting speech from Thomas Klingenstein: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/10/13/claremont_institute_chairman_thomas_klingenstein_trump_2020_a_man_vs_a_movement.html I realize that it is long, but I found it to summarize the beliefs of many Trump supporters, who otherwise would probably not be Trump supporters. THOMAS KLINGENSTEIN: My name is Tom Klingenstein. I am the chair of the board of the Claremont Institute which is a conservative think tank, managing partner of a New York investment firm and playwright. I wish to make three points. First, Trump is the perfect man for these times, not all times, perhaps not most times, but these times. Second, Republicans are not doing a good job explaining the stakes in this election. They must explain, and this is my third point, that the Democratic Party, which has been taken by its radical wing, is leading a revolution. This makes the coming election the most important one since the election of 1860. Let’s begin there. Unlike most elections, this one is much more than a contest over particular policies—like health care or taxes. Rather, like the election of 1860, this election is a contest between two competing regimes, or ways of life. Two ways of life that cannot exist peacefully together. One way of life, I’ll call it “the traditional American way of life,” is based on individual rights, the rule of law, and a shared understanding of the common good. This way of life values hard work, self-reliance, volunteerism, patriotism, and so on. In this way of life there are no hyphenated Americans. We are all just Americans. Colorblindness is our aspiration. The other way of life I call multiculturalism. Others call it “identity politics” or “cultural Marxism” or “Intersectionality”. The multicultural movement, which has taken over the Democratic party, is a revolutionary movement. I do not mean a metaphorical revolution. It is not like a revolution; it is a revolution, an attempt to overthrow the American Founding as President Trump said in his excellent Mt. Rushmore speech. Republicans should say the same thing. Republicans everywhere, at every level, and at every opportunity. Multiculturalism conceives of society, not as a community of individuals with equal rights but as a collection of cultural identity groups—defined by race, ethnicity, gender, and so forth. According to the multiculturalists, all these identity groups are oppressed by white males. Their goal is to have each identity group proportionally represented in all institutions of American society. As should be immediately clear, achieving this proportional representation requires a never-ending redistribution of wealth and power from some groups—and not just from whites—to other groups. Such a massive redistribution can only be achieved by a tyrannical government and like in all tyrannies, one where dissenters are silenced. In order to achieve this proportional representation, the Democrats require not just endless affirmative action but genuine socialism, open borders, unrestricted trade, seizing guns, sanctuary cities, and much more. The Black Lives Matter/Democrats understand (which Republicans seem not to), that if they are to achieve this policy agenda they must get Americans to change their values, their principles, and the way they understand themselves. They must get us to believe that national borders and colorblindness are racist; that we are not one culture but many; that the most important thing in our history—the thing around which all else pivots—is slavery. More broadly, the multiculturalists must get us to believe that we are unworthy—not just that we have sinned (which of course we have)—but that we are irredeemably sinful, or, in the language of today, “systemically racist.” And sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic and all the other “ists” and phobias. Simply put, multiculturalism must get us to believe we are bad This suggests one way to frame the coming election: as a contest between a man, Trump, who believes America is good and a man, Biden, who is controlled by a movement that believes America is bad. I do not think it is any more complicated than that. For the multiculturalist to change traditional values and principles they must destroy, or radically restructure, the institutions that teach those values and principles. The most important of these institutions is family, but also very important is religion, education (which they have mostly destroyed already) and community life, replacing the latter with government bureaucrats. It is here—in these value-teaching institutions—that we see the underpinnings of the Revolution. This is where the real action is. Republicans seem to be missing in action. Republicans need to explain that BLM and their Democratic enablers wish to destroy the traditional mother-father family. To substantiate this claim, Republicans have only to point to the BLM mission statement. The mission statement, written by avowed Marxists, also lets us know that BLM holds transgenderism to be the burning issue of our time. Republicans must also explain that religion, because it teaches American values, is also on the chopping block. Republicans also must make American see that the taking down of statues is not about removing a few confederate generals; it’s about destroying America’s past, as is the New York Times 1619 Project. The rioters, and their BLM-Democrats enablers, are tearing down the statues even of people like Frederick Douglass who fought against slavery. This is not an accident. It is not collateral damage. Frederick Douglass was a great American. He believed that America in her soul was not racist. He believed in hard work and self-reliance. And because of his embrace of American values the BLM-Democrats have to get rid of him. They must also get rid of Abraham Lincoln, for it is he who best explains what we should aspire to. And it is he who is the best defender of the American Founding. In one sense, this election is a referendum on the Founding. Whether America was founded in 1619, as the BLM-Democrats contend, or, in 1776 as Lincoln, and, until recently, all Americans believed. Republicans must make more of political correctness and cancel culture, which, as we have seen so vividly of late, brutally punishes apostates. Who does Twitter think it is, censoring an American president? Republicans simply cannot stand for that. And Republicans must explain, as I earlier explained, that the multiculturalists are trying to get us to believe that we are systemically racist so that we will surrender to their policy agenda. This too must not be allowed to stand. The American people need to hear what they know in their hearts: they are not racists. Republicans should stand up and say, “no, America is not racist.” Period. If Americans are systemically anything, it is a systemic commitment to freedom and equal rights for all. Perhaps most importantly, Republicans must say over and over that America is “incredible,” to use President Trump’s adjective of choice. They must remind the American people that, as a friend of mine is fond of saying, America has brought more freedom and more prosperity to more people than any country in the history of mankind. Most Americans know this, but this too they need to hear from their leaders. In order to make the case that the Democrats are leading a revolution, Republicans must delegitimize Black Lives Matter—the organization, of course, not the sentiment. To BLM and their Democratic enablers, Republicans must say: “Absolutely, black lives matter. They just don’t matter to you. You don’t care about Mr. Floyd, the black businesses you have destroyed, the blacks who are getting killed because you have forced the police to back off. You’re here for destruction. Not black lives, not any lives.” After delegitimizing Black Lives Matter, the next step for Republicans is to tie BLM’s revolutionary agenda around the necks of Democrats. The BLM wing of the Democratic party has captured the entire party. Run-of-the-mill Democrats may not agree with all of the BLM agenda but they go-along, so they might as well agree. Joe Biden is one of the go-along Democrats. So do not expect all Democrats to sing the BLM tune; even so, most will kneel before them. Listen to Biden. On one occasion Biden said, “Let’s be clear, transgender equality is the civil rights issue of our time.” A year ago, Biden may not have even known what transgenderism is. He does not seem to know it, but he has been radicalized. Biden now regularly talks about “systemic” racism. On one occasion Biden said, though without evidence, there is “absolutely systemic racism in law enforcement.” “[But] it’s not just in law enforcement,” he continued, “it’s across the board. It’s in housing, it’s in education . . . It’s in everything we do.” He is wrong on every count, but if indeed he believes that racism is in “everything we do,” that it is systemic, then he believes, whether he admits or not, that the system must be overturned. Biden does not realize it, but he is calling for the overthrow of the American way of life. I presume that is not his intent, but when the words he is reading off his BLM teleprompter get translated into policy, that will be the consequence — the destruction of the American way of life. Biden demurs. There is nothing to fear from Biden says Biden: “Do I look like a radical socialist with a soft spot for rioters?” No, he does not, but what he does look like is a sap. Republicans must make it clear that these are the “Biden riots.” This brings me to my last point: Trump. I know President Trump has many faults. I myself sometimes cringe listening to him. Sometimes he is his own worst enemy. He is a braggart, often misinformed, petty, sometimes even vengeful. And more. And yet, we are very lucky to have him. I am almost prepared to say that having him is Providential. How else to explain that we find ourselves with this most unusual, most unpresidential man who has just the attributes most needed for this moment. At any other time, he might well have been a bad president. But in these times—these revolutionary times—he is the best president we could have had. He has the indispensable attribute of a leader: courage. As a leader must, he goes where others are afraid to go. And he has common sense, which means he generally wants to go to the right place. Above all else, and above anyone else, Trump is committed to America. He is unreservedly, unquestionably pro-America. He feels no guilt for America’s past. He makes no apologies. He concedes nothing. These may not always be the attributes one wants in a President, but in this day of woke guilt they are the most essential things. And Trump has unlimited confidence in America. In this time of national doubt, this too is just what the doctor ordered. He thinks our culture is “incredible” and that’s the way he wants to keep it. Trump not only thinks America is incredible, he knows we are in a fight for our lives. And despite what one hears ad nauseum from the Democrats, Trump is perhaps among the least racist presidents we have ever had. Trump is not defending the white way of life; he is defending the American way of life, a colorblind way of life which is open to anyone who is willing to embrace it. If we want to save our country, then we should support him—unequivocally. I am. I think this election is that important, and I think Trump is that good. I hope you agree. Remember, Trump versus Biden is the choice between a man who believes America is good and a man who is controlled by a movement which believes America is bad.

If it’s not required, we have sure wasted a lot of time in the temples performing vicarious ordinances. From the Handbook: 18.1 Ordinances of Salvation and Exaltation The priesthood includes the authority to administer gospel ordinances that are necessary for salvation and exaltation. People make sacred covenants with God as they receive these ordinances. The ordinances of salvation and exaltation are listed below: Baptism Confirmation and gift of the Holy Ghost Conferral of the Melchizedek Priesthood and ordination to an office (for men) Temple endowment Temple sealing The ordinances of salvation and exaltation are not performed for persons who have intellectual disabilities that make them not accountable and unable to make covenants with God. Nor are these ordinances performed for children who die before age 8. These persons are “saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven” (Doctrine and Covenants 137:10; see also Moroni 8:8–12).

For myself, while I tend towards ideals that most would consider conservative, the truth is that I pretty much view politics as a distraction from what is most important: The Plan of Salvation. It’s why we are here in mortality. It seems to me that many of us spend so much time debating which political ideology has the greater merit that we forget that living and sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ has infinitely more merit than all other ideals.

Oof. The worst part is wondering how this might spread to other illnesses. Perhaps even the common cold, and how Mr. Fred spread his germs to Mr. Joe causing him to miss work for 3 days and now wants recompense. I believe the dynamics of the (past) status quo might be susceptible to change after recent events and seeing how these have detrimentally affected the nations.