NightSG

The clarion call was "Flatten the curve!", not "Don't ever let anyone ever get infected ever ever ever!" The curve has been flattened. Now it's time for people to quit panicking and get back to life. It's a virus. Everyone will get infected, eventually. We have moved from caution to paranoia, and I primarily blame the media (with the assistance from the finger-waggers who just can't help their impulse to signal their supreme virtue).

In years to come, looking back, this is what we will probably say was the correct choice.
 
 
This is socialism in action (well, not the paying of debt part.)

Due to extensive damage to my sinuses I sometimes have to breathe through my mouth to get enough air. 
Most kinds of face mask make that difficult to impossible. 
So I can maybe wear my mask for 10 - 15 minutes at a time before I have to take it off and get a good, big breath. 
As you can imagine, I've had to fight my parents about this, as they think I'm just hyper-ventilating. 

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Let me make one thing clear, Southern Utah has done VERY LITTLE in terms of quarantine. To say we were successful just drives our thoughts on it home.
 
We must be getting our news from different source. I have heard and read that hospitals are encouraged to attribute deaths to c-19 cause it increases their funding. There have been many cases where someone dies because of a heart defect, but because they have c-19, they report it as that to show they are also in need of precious emergency funding. The idea that hospitals are not counting every possible death as a c-19 death seems wrong and against human nature.
I also read that a month ago, they started counting antibodies (a somewhat unreliable way of seeing if someone had the virus or not) in LA and New York. They found that 2.5 million people in NY had c-19 anti bodies, bringing death rate down to  0.2%
I think the biggest tell for how ridiculous this all  is is the lack of celebrity deaths. The news can say “6% death rate” and “Millions are going to die from this” and we just have to take their word for it, but when we see entire basketball teams, politicians,  celebrities, etc. getting c-19 and only a handful age 60-100 years old of them dying due to c-19 “complications”, it’s hard to think that this is serious.
Additionally, there this 20 minute video floating around, that YouTube has since taken down, of civilian reporters exposing the lies we were seeing in the news. 20 minutes of these 15 second - 1 minute long clips of people comparing the media’s claims to reality.
 
some examples include:
Media: they are setting up temporary mass   Morgues in the streets for all the deaths
civilian reporter: showing the same “mass morgues” The media showed and they were just emergency treatment stations and had long been vacant.
 
Media: Lines wrapping around the block as people scramble to get the aid they need.
Civilian reporter: at same location the next day... but it is an empty parking lot
 
Media: Ambulances in X city are being over used and they don’t have time to get to everyone
civilian reporter: in same city showing a hospital parking garage full of idle ambulances
 
Media: look at all these scary picture of covid-19 stuff
Civilian Reporter: showing that there are dozens of reused stock videos from years earlier during other sickness and non-sickness related events that they are using as c-19 propaganda.
It’s going to take a lot to convince me this is not some slippery slope that the media found themselves in.
I agree this is probably worst than the flu in many ways (as more people will get it and die from it)... but we should just quarantine the “at risk” people instead of killing our economy. 
 
Or the government can just keep passing stimulus checks that I can use on cool toys, either or I guess (I actually used it to pay off the rest of our debt. We definitely did not need it).

Gospel Principles or standard works? The answer I am hearing is YES...but in reverse order. Great answer. Obvious...but true. And, yes, for too many Christians of all stripes, there has not been even one reading through the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments. Sadly, some of our compromised mega-pastors are actively advising against much of the Bible as unnecessary. :::sigh:::  Keep them ignorant, keep them controlled.
I especially like the added counsel to use Gospel Principles, but with actually references to all scriptures listed. Who does that? Very few...but yeah, everyone should. I recall reading a study book from a religion I do not agree with. They made a statement I thought wrong, and in parenthesis it had six biblical references. Most would look at that and be amazed and overwhelmed. They must be right with all that scripture backing them. Alas, I actually read the first two references and realized they had nothing to do with the point made. It's almost as if they simply used a concordance to see if any of the words in their points were also in the Bible, and the listed each verse that contained one of the words.
BOTTOM LINE:  Want to avoid being a heretic within? Read your faith's scriptures...daily passages and yearly books. Excellent stuff. I believe our elders called this type of thing a spiritual discipline.

I told my 17-year old, who was quoting an Edgar Allen Poe poem, that if she wanted to memorize Bible passages like that King James is the easiest. She looked surprised and asked me why. It's the rhythm and cadence. It's not my studying Bible, but there is nothing like the King James for memorizing and quoting. The other reality is that the KJV rates at about an 11th grade reading level. NIV is 7th, as are most news magazines. So, it's more than we are used to, but not out of reach.

Amen, brother.

This is akin to Jordan Peterson's view that religious practice (attending Church for 1 hour per week) brings one to ponder or renew one's commitment to doing good.  Ahh... I should just let Jordan speak for himself:
 

Glenn Beck moved to Texas for the same reason.
Hannity has been threatening to do the same for a few years now.
Elon Musk is now saying he'll probably move the entire company out of California to a more business friendly state like Texas.  (And I never thought of Musk as a free market guy).

The other day, I heard a Democrat on the news say that New York's response to COVID 19 was the best possible.  I wished I could have asked that person if they could name any place in the world that had a worse response.
But there is something else going on.  A lot of individuals have discovered that because of COVID-19 that many companies have learned that their workers can work remotely from home.  The problem is - when someone is working from home in one state for a company in another state - which state should get the income tax?
In all my travels I have never paid an income tax anywhere other than where I have my residence.  I have been places several years and flying home on weekends.  I have never liked New York City - even to visit but their draconian tax system is leaving me with more excuse than ever.
That they would tax voluntary workers that put themselves at risk is definitely draconian but perhaps I should say typical of Democratic party policy.  But then it is getting harder for blue states to finance their dreams.
 
The Traveler
 
 

According to this article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2020/05/08/andrew-cuomo-confirms-new-york-will-tax-out-of-state-volunteer-health-workers-congress-can-stop-this/#774365215f12  Samaritan's Purse was shocked that they would be taxed. Further, the governor can certainly wave the tax. He indicates he will if the feds cough up more money. There is legislation pending, recommended by Forbes, to prevent this kind of thing from repeating. So, again, yes what Cuomo's doing is legal. It's not normal, it's the ultimate in ungratefulness, and even some Democrats in DC seem ready to correct this punk move.  
 

I agree with every detail you offered, but 100% disagree with the conclusion. Yes, NY has the legal right to tax those who work within its borders. Yes, large organizations should know this. Yes, as believers, we should render unto Caesar what is Caesars. BUT, I do not believe the governor's threat is normal. Many organizations respond to natural disasters. The Church does. Convoy of Hope, Samaritan's Purse, even secular groups like the Red Cross. Never have I heard of a hard-hit location, when the disaster passes, saying to the volunteers: Thanks for coming, here's your tax bill!
This is a punk move. The governor is using the best Americans as pawns, hoping to shame the GOP senate into giving his state money. Frankly, I am so upset I would urge my senators to vote no, just to show NY we won't reward such outrageous tactics. Sadly, my state's senators are probably cheering the governor on.

New York has already proven in the past they will take anything they want from their citizens if the State authorities deem it necessary.  It was necessary for them in their minds to put harsh restrictions and bans on New York citizen's right to keep and bear privately owned firearms.  The lack of respect for private property of citizens continues in New York State and will continue as they keep re-electing these people. 
I am glad I do not live in that State anymore.

Maybe. But Cuomo's unabashed hypocrisy in characterizing not paying state income tax as a "subsidy" after he himself pled for help is what gets under people's skin. Well, that along with SP being ridden out of town on a rail after their usefulness had been exhausted.
COVID-19 has not been a real threat, societally. It's the 98-pound weakling of pandemics. But worse will come. And when it does, New York will be left to suffer and die, because it will have wasted all its goodwill capital in fiascos like badmouthing SP because their stance on homosexuality is not sufficiently "progressive". When that day comes, then for the sake of my own soul I hope I don't take any (or at least much) satisfaction in seeing the city of New York get exactly what's coming to it.

I remember years ago when Rush Limbaugh left New York and moved his business to Florida.  He talked on air about New York's efforts to continue to tax him even after he was gone.

@JohnsonJones, in this case the Governor's point is that the Senate Republicans need to bail NY out of its financial crisis. Since they will not, he has no choice but to tax healthcare workers who traveled to NY to help with the crisis. Yes, most were paid, either by the charities they came with, or by the healthcare agencies they worked for. Scripture tells us a worker is worth his/her wages. None of that detracts from the reality that most left the comfort of their homes and their much safer states, because NY needed the help. The governor actually begged for out-of-state healthcare workers to come to the state. He promised they would be taken care of. THEN, to send them packing with a tax bill? This might be legal, but it is outrageous. He is hoping to shame the senate GOP, but will instead bring shame on himself. I doubt any will have sympathy for him and blame the senate. Further, the next time NY calls for help, who's going to answer, given Cuomo's "No good deed goes unpunished" approach.
Here's the governor pleading with out of state workers to come help (March 30): https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrew-cuomo-coronavirus-new-york-health-care-workers-covid-19/

I'm starting to get some work again.  So, I can stop eating food storage. 
One of my biggest clients is still not moving.  Part of it is that his financier came down from Canada to iron out all the details.  Then he went home just before the quarantine -- and before signing the papers.  Now we're waiting for Canada to open up so that we can pick this back up again and hopefully begin the project.
The family is beginning to liven up.  Families are more open to play-dates for the kids.  My wife was happy to get a really good score on a term paper.  She's confident that she will get her degree at the end of May.  And she's beginning to entertain the idea of going back into the workforce.  Our kids are getting bigger and not in need of her on a daily basis anymore.
Most of the kids are about the same except for those who have play dates.
Some bad news.  My mom just died Tuesday night.  It was a heart attack. But it is going to go down as a COVID death because she had it a few weeks back (very mildly).  She was fully recovered, but they heard she had it, so... SMH.  We can't have a funeral because of COVID.  And we're not sure about a virtual service.
I spoke with my sister who lives in Salem, OR.  She said that she's deathly afraid of it.  She's in the age category and has asthma, and lupus, and.and.and...
She also just got out of the hospital about a month ago due to some kind of blood poisoning???  or something???  Her new husband works in the healthcare industry, so he recognized the symptoms and said she had to go to the emergency room.  They said he saved her life.  Another hour and...
So, she has to take the time to wear gloves and a mask everywhere because she's totally and completely in high risk groups.  When she brings her groceries home, she has to wipe everything down with bleach, including the shopping bags and all food containers. But she doesn't know what to do about the food itself.  You can only chlorinize that so much.
I mentioned the news that you posted about what tests were done on the virus.  And I suggested that she get one of those large bottles of alcohol and put a spray nozzle on it.  That will kill it and will evaporate quickly.
She said that she can't because of the run on rubbing alcohol in all the stores.  No one has it.  Her husband can't get it from work because they keep it locked up.  And only a few people have the key.  Can you imagine?  Hospitals lock up alcohol because it is such a hot commodity?
I mentioned the over-reporting of COVID deaths due to co-morbidity.  But she said it's even worse.  They under-report the number of cases because at the hospital they only have so many tests.  And they can't report a case until the test verifies it.  Yet, they pretty much know people have it and have to send them home to save space for verified COVID patients.  And they can't verify it without the test.
So, they under-report the cases, and over-report the deaths.  That means the current morbidity rate is much lower than the statistics we're getting.
I'm beginning to get very blah about everything nowadays.

I'm really not following the logic here.  You'll have to explain the dissonance to me.  Both are saying that the individual has freedom to do things.  And with freedom, comes some danger.  Did I miss something?

Sounds good.  Let's take a closer look at that emergency declaration.  March 13, 2020.
That doesn't really say anything about closing parks or arresting people because they open a place of business.  Was there another one?
He later issues social distancing guidelines.  But I have not yet seen anything where he says such guidelines should be enforceable through fine or imprisonment.  If you know of anything where he said that, I'd be happy to look at it.
Barring that, I don't see how anything Trump did has caused these state and local officials to go to the extreme measures that we hear these (admittedly isolated) incidents portray.

I haven't paid attention to the phases.  The only thing that I was up in arms for was the beach closures.  And that has been opened in Florida for a while now.  School is closed for the rest of the school year which my son is very very unhappy about but he'll survive it.  Some of his classmates have gotten suicidal - this is a group of IB students, super high achievers, and this chaos is driving them insane.

He said... you can take off the mask because the case fatality rate is 0.1 to 0.3 according to USC - he did not say percent, but that's what a rate is, a percent so it's assumed 0.1% to 0.3%.  Its not 1.3. 
The math comes in because the rest of John Robert's statement (that got cut off from the video linked above but is part of the viral version) states that the USC study determined there are upwards of 221,000 to 442,000 infected in LA county.  And the ticker says LA County has had 790 covid-19 deaths.  So math badaboom badabing puts that fatality rate at 0.1% - 0.3% which is significantly much smaller than 1.3% as you noted.
 

Oh my gosh!  You're really bad at math, aren't you?

As have been shown the past month, the government can print $2T+ of money and give it away to whomever they please.  
And, as the "look at the science" shows, your risk assessment on that statement does not bear reality.
 
It is interesting that you cite law (unemployment) whenever it suits you and then ignore law whenever it does.  You DO know that America is not built on mob rule, right?  Because... that, in itself, can be tyranny.
 

It becomes tyrannical when our elected leaders start ignoring the Constitution, and abusing their powers. When people who are in need of various medical treatments for afflictions, such as cancer, but are denied because COVID-19 has suddenly taken precedence over anyone else’s medical needs, there is tyranny. When the livelihoods of hardworking people is shutdown during a roaring economy because of a forced quarantine on healthy people, there is tyranny. When doctors have come out publicly in support of a treatment, and are threatened that if they use it, they will lose their medical license, there is tyranny. 
It doesn’t have to involve shooting people in the streets, or public hangings. However, many, if not most, tyrannical regimes began similarly to what is going on in the U.S. right now. They claim they are trying to protect us, and expect us to give up a little bit of liberty so that we can all be “safe.” They say things, such as “We’re all in this together.”
So, to downplay it by claiming that we don’t know what fascism or tyranny means because we haven’t gotten there, is missing the point. We know exactly what it is, we know exactly how these regimes got that way, and we don’t want the United States to turn into the tyrannical and third-world vile countries that they are.
So, please answer my question - At what point do you think it becomes tyrannical?