SpiritDragon

It undermines the efficacy of the atonement of Jesus Christ to put limits on forgiveness. It is doctrine that the grace of Christ pays our debt in full. However, grace is contingent upon faith and repentance and saving ordinances. The important thing to know is that if you are willing to make it right than it is never too late, but if you love the sin more than God and won't give it up you have a real problem. Repentance is never easy, and relapses are common. Focus on being the best you can each day and try not to let the past haunt you into thinking you can't improve. The adversary would love to have you think you are through and should just give up... Don't give in. With the help of the Lord you can find peace and enjoy the blessings of the gospel again. Let the Lord help you. As for still going on a mission it depends on the severity (I don't want to know) of what you did. The law of chastity has several layers starting with lusting after some one, which often accompanies pornography and masturbation. If this is how you have been breaking the law of chastity you should still be able to repent and go on a mission. If however you have been involved in sexual acts with another individual than your chances of going are not promising (my understanding is that since raising the bar on missionary service and qualification that you would no longer be allowed to go... but talk to your bishop regardless). He will have answers to your questions and he is there to help you.

Any exercise done improperly can cause harm to the body. Warning - this may get a bit technical... if your not into technical skip the following explanation. However sit-ups and crunches do have a lot of top back-health experts speaking out against them. There are are a few reasons for this... first the motion itself puts the spine into flexion with great compressive load pushing the spinal discs posteriorly - this is a prime set-up to herniate discs. Also most people have faulty recruitment of their flexor chain (think all the muscles involved in curling up) and rely too heavily on their hip flexors (ilopsoas and rectus femoris) which have attachments in the lumbar spine which causes spinal extension instead of spinal flexion at the lumbar vertebrae. If the key abdominal muscles are not strong enough or activated with appropriate timing this leads to an even nastier circumstance where shear forces enter into the equation on top of the compressive forces making the sit-up even more hazardous (at least from a scientific perspective). Stuart Mcgill (a leading back health expert/researcher) has shown with various models how it is only a matter of time before the spine is worn out with repetitive spinal flexion. Many exercise professionals have successfully helped their clients/patients out of back-pain problems by using other methods of strengthening the core such as planks or other stability exercises. The key function of the core musculature is to stabilize the spine not to bend forward bringing the ribs and pelvis closer together. They all need to function together as a functional unit. When planks become easy you can progess to to stabilizing your spine while moving such as performing a roll-out with an ab-wheel. Welcome back technical rant over Back to your primary concern - getting abs. It has already been established that spot reduction is a myth. no amount of sit-ups, crunches or ab-wheel roll-outs will get you visible abs if you have too much fat covering the muscles. Cardio is a great way to shed pounds in conjunction with a sound diet. You do not have to confine yourself to treadmill runs or even long out-door runs if that is not your thing. It has been proven that high intensity intervals are more effective than steady-state cardio for shedding pounds. This could mean running sprint intervals or bike sprints, burpees or kettlebell swings. The most vital part is finding some kind of activity that you enjoy enough to do consistently and cutting down the junk food to a minimum. As for training the abs; planks are safer than crunches... and the ab-wheel is a solid core work-out option if you can handle it. Make sure not to let your back arch and return to the starting position if you feel like you are going to lose control. Start from your knees and only progress to doing them from your feet if you feel it is needed. You may not even need to do any direct abdominal work if you are sprinting or doing burpees or any other high intensity exercise that requires total body stability through dynamic motion. Once the fat comes off your abs will show. Good Luck!

CF is a surprisingly popular method of getting in shape. It is highly controversial in the fitness community and tends to polarize people who are either in favour or adamantly against it. As a fitness professional I tend to be closer to the latter camp of not agreeing with CF as a system. I will try to put forth the pros and cons in the least biased way I can. Pros: Over-all good conditioning programCan lead to fast successCons: Extremely high injury rate (which = lack of success and long-term set-backs)Emphasis on high-intensity as opposed to proper form = increased risk of injuryUse of advanced exercises with steep learning curves is simply thrust upon new recruits again leading to injury.CF is quite expensive compared to other exercise classes/ boot-camps / it is closer to the expense of personal training, but executed much more poorlySo to sum up CF is fine for those who are 18-25 and in fairly good shape and who quickly pick up on exercises and whose bodies can still handle the punishment of grueling exercise with sub-par form and sub-par instruction/supervision. For most others it is a fast track to nasty injuries that will sideline your fitness goals and likely dampen your quality of life. But for those who get away with it, it can produce some pretty impressive body transformations. CF also has a strange cult-like following that advocates following the paleo diet which has some definite drawbacks. However in fairness to CrossFit they have apparently seen the need to improve the quality of their instruction and have been taking steps to get their act together and hopefully reduce the number of wash-outs (injured and sidelined participants). In closing CF is intense and effective so long as you are not injured by it, which is extremely likely. There are much safer ways to get in shape that can lead to just as impressive results.

I do not pretend to know how much or how little the Book of Mormon has been used through-out church history, however I would venture a guess that if it is used more today than in the past it is because the world is drawing nearer to the end and greater strength and diligence is required by the followers of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Ezra Taft Benson (a former prophet seer and revelator of the church) spoke frequently of our need to enrich our lives with the Book of Mormon. He spoke of our need not to take sacred things lightly in a talk that can be read hear The Book of Mormon—Keystone of Our Religion - general-conference The world has been under condemnation for nearly two centuries for taking the Book of Mormon too lightly. If it is being used more now than ever, it is a sign that righteousness in the world is increasing. That more of us are having its sacred message planted in our hearts that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the world. It is the most powerful tool for building a testimony of the restored gospel of Christ to the earth in modern times. I know by the witness of the holy spirit that the Book of Mormon is a true record of an ancient people and their dealing with God. From this witness of the spirit I have come to know that Joseph Smith must be a true prophet in order to bring forth this sacred record, and that the church and organization set forth by the Lord continues to this day with Thomas S. Monson as the prophet to continue the pattern of prophetic witness to the reality and divinity of Jesus Christ. So it makes perfect sense to me that a great emphasis is placed on reading the Book of Mormon. Because it clearly connects the dots that lead to the kingdom of God on the earth. I love the bible as well, but as a stand alone record it simply is not as clear what path we are to follow... hence all of the different Christian denominations and doctrinal disputes. While the BOM itself does not neccesarily clear up all disputes, a witness from the spirit that it is true leads one to the Church the Jesus Himself established and guides through revelation. Revelation from God does clear up disputes and His word is final.

Great thought! I work for an organization that believes that equality can only be achieved by having women in equal (or greater) numbers than men in all positions in the social sphere otherwise women are not going to be represented properly. At one particular meeting they were basically speaking out against motherhood as taking time away from dealing with the important issues of the day. I am glad to be in a relationship and part of a more important organization that understands that motherhood is a power position with greater potential to change lives than any other pursuit. I have nothing against women assuming non-traditional roles, but I find it sad when they form organizations to fight for women's rights and in turn war against themselves accomplishing some of the most important and fulfilling aspects in life.

I know in this age of text messages and emails and quirky relationship games the idea of actually talking to the person directly to communicate has become somewhat forgotten. However, it is likely the best method to actually communicate feelings... and I would say pre-requisite to any kind of real relationship. So if you guys are actually in some kind of relationship than talk it out. If you are not actually in a relationship, but wish you were, it might help to drop some hints. You should also be aware of the fact that guys often don't pick up on what girls consider subtle hints, it may seem more like dropping a piano on his head, but with caution at the same time so as not to scare him away. However, if he reciprocates interest he shouldn't scare too easily. So if he does run you just saved yourself some time. Also, if you are not in a relationship yet and other guys come calling, it is probably a good idea to test the waters and see what they have to offer. Anyway I don't know enough about you or the situation to give any great help. Pray about it... personal revelation can work wonders in the hunt for an eternal companion.

This strikes too close to home for me, because I find myself in a very similar situation. I may even be guilty of saying similar things. I think it is important to withhold judgment when we are not the involved party. It is very difficult to put up with a disorganized trash hole of a home when you work hard all day and come to find your wife still in her PJ's playing facebook or watching movies and knowing that nothing has been accomplished all day at home. A guy really hopes his wife would be doing something with herself. It is not fair to expect a husband to work full-time and put himself through school and also try to keep up with the dishes and laundry and sometimes even the meal preparation. However, it also important to try to find out why the wife is struggling and not attack her either. Either way I think it is not innately right or wrong for a husband to talk to his wife that way, but I think it could be done more lovingly and sound less like he is issuing ultimatums. But I feel for the guy.

This is a fascinating topic. I was unaware that the NT makes no reference to musical instruments in worship. However, the absence of reference is far from condemnation of musical instruments. I would say that without scripture condemning the act of using musical instruments the burden of proof rests with the church of christ and you have nothing to defend... your peer is the one in the position to defend that musical instrumentation is a violation. Jesus taught that he came to fulfill the law but not to do away with it. The old testament is full of musical instruments involved in praise. Did Christ do away with the use of musical instruments? If so why is there no mention of it? That is the angle I would argue myself, but arguing isn't always as useful as backing up to a testimony of the restoration.

Scenario 2 - I believe it shows a lot about a persons heart if they are willing to give their life for another. Moroni 7:45-47 talks about the importance of charity as one possible reason that this kind of act would have an extremely potent exaltation factor... since charity is a requirement. I certainly can't guarantee that giving your life for some one guarantees exaltation, but their is the story of the three young men that helped the willy and martin hand cart companies across a river by carrying them through the freezing water. They all died young from exposure to the cold and later it was said of them that this act alone ensured them exaltation and worlds without end. As a side note I really liked a talk years ago about giving our lives by being there for someone as opposed to giving our lives by dying for someone. I think in a lot of ways dying for some one is easier than living for some one, and not always more useful to them. There are so many variables surrounding why a person would give their life and I'm confident that the Lord looks on the heart of those doing such heroic actions. I certainly don't think it would ever work as a get out of jail free card for the unrepentant person who dies for a loved one, but wouldn't for others. Now more specifically to scenario one - I do not think we are required to give our lives for family or friends unless acted upon by the spirit to do so. I do believe we are supposed to help and support people to the best of our abilities through our walk in mortality. For instance if I was to take a bullet for my wife in the hope that it ensured she lived on (which frankly I would rather do than watch her die) I would be trading my life for hers so to speak. Perhaps however the spirit would restrain me from doing so because of some unfinished business that the Lord has in store for me. So I really think it all depends.

Tough Grits you aren't the only one! I read your post and thought to myself I have a lot of markings in alma 5 and so I opened up my triple combo from my mission and found that starting with vs 14 it is all marked in yellow with various other colors for extra emphasis. I have always been touched by this particular passage of scripture. I love the questions that cause pause and reflection. It is kind of like a personal conversion inventory interview. I remember seeing an actual change in my appearance after I gained a testimony of the book of mormon and turned to my Saviour for forgiveness of my sins. I remember feeling like "sing(ing) the song of redeeming love." I also remember times I have read this and felt pricked because I no longer felt to sing the song of redeeming love and I no longer felt that I had His image in my countenance... I have been called to repentance by these verses several times. I love that they don't focus much on the "motions" but the intents of the heart. This is a more true indicator of our conversion and commitment to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

It is completely true doctrine that we are recipients of the grace of Christ through faith and not of works alone. This is because the lord looks on the heart. If we truly come unto Christ and are converted (a powerful change of heart) our love and faith will be manifested by our works. A lot of scripture in the new testament is spent explaining to the jews that they are not saved by the law of moses, but by Jesus Christ. Everyone falls short of perfection in this life, thus none of us can return to our Heavenly King spotless without the cleansing power of the atonement of Christ. The gospel is laid out in easy to understand steps, but not always so easy to experience. We first need faith that Jesus Christ can and will save us. This faith needs to be strong enough that we are willing to change our ways to be disciples of Christ, this is repentance, a turning to Christ, a change of heart. We also require saving ordinances, but faith and repentance are the continual theme of enduring to the end. Now I feel the need to clarify my opening statement a little more. You see the scriptures teach us that if we do good grudgingly it is not counted as righteousness. So if we keep the commandments and live in a socially acceptable (within mormon culture) kind of way, but we hate it and despise all the rules and restrictions, we are on shaky ground. We need to have faith in Christ and love Him and understand and feel how His teachings set us free and we will gladly embrace trying to emulate the master, not simply trying to look impressive by keeping up certain standards that we use for for boasting. At the time of Christ and his apostles this was very much the condition of the various church leadership among the children of Israel. They had made the laws out to be the rule and neglected the spiritual growth that accompanied the rules... thus it was crucial for them to understand that they were not saved by keeping the rule of the law to the letter, but by coming to Christ. Without faith in Jesus Christ we will not reach our potential and fall short of the happiness that His love brings into this life and into the eternities.

It is not exclusive to the South. I have seen this in Northern and Southern Alberta, Canada (home) and on my mission in Utah. In fact it is the very reason that many people are disillusioned with organized religion, because people put too much into being a part of the right church and too little into following the Saviour. As for what it means to be Christian... it all depends on who you ask and what context. Evangelical Christians for instance can become very seclusive in their concept of christianity where not only are latter-day saints not considered Christian, but even Catholics and other groups that practice any form of religion that considers works essential to be un-Christian. I like what the traveler had to say about discipleship over Christianity. I wanted to say more, but I need to go.

Some great thoughts from everybody! I thought I would add a few thoughts as well. First a scriptural defense for the idea that starting out with a perfect knowledge would put us all under greater condemnation; Helaman 14:19 reads Therefore repent ye, repent ye, lest by knowing these things and not doing them ye shall suffer yourselves to come under condemnation, and ye are brought down unto this second death. I agree that we are given the blessing of forgetfulness so that mercy can still lay claim on us. As for God needing to have faith... I love how much this made me think. In "Preach My Gospel" the missionary manual faith is given as a Christlike attribute with scriptural references. Of course when Christ was on the earth he was subject to the same conditions as the rest of us and overcame by faith. I found the comment interesting that in Alma 32 we learn about how faith can cease to exist as it becomes a perfect knowledge, at least in that point or area of concern. We generally accept that God is all-knowing and therefore could draw the conclusion that He no longer needs faith. Yet the hymns are also considered to be doctrinal and in "The Spirit of God" we sing that the knowledge and power of God are expanding. Which is where I suppose things might start to become illogical or pass mortal understanding, but if God is all-knowing and yet has the capacity to expand in knowledge would it not seem highly probable that God still needs faith. It certainly seems like an eternal principle by which the power of the priesthood is directed, and that for God to no longer need faith would be a contradiction to his teachings whereby faith precedes miracles and is sort of a currency of spiritual power. I also find it interesting to remember that as man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become. This leads me to the thought process that our Heavenly Father would have needed faith in something during his walk in mortality and this may need to continue in the eternities. Also, He may require faith in His servants to accomplish His works... and so faith becomes one eternal round. Sorry if my post raises more questions, thanks for getting me thinking.

At the risk of wasting my time sharing an opinion that will be scorned instantly by those with an opposing view I am adding my thoughts to the mix. As a Canadian I had no ability to vote in this past U.S. election but I was very interested in it. I have no ties to either the rebublican or democrat parties and no prior animosity toward either presidential candidate. Looking at the platforms objectively, I thought both parties were genuinely trying to implement plans that they feel would help the country, yet I believe only one of those plans would actually work. It appears that given Obama's track record he should never have been allowed a second term. Admittedly, I did not follow Obama's first presidential run against John McCain(?) all that much, but it seemed to me it was devoid of substance... empty promises of hope and change. After four years he failed to turn the economy around or accomplish anything of real value to the country and again was running on nothing; a record that doesn't speak for itself and left him playing to the simplicity of the weak minded who are dazzled by smoke and mirrors and miss the real issues. Why people would vote to suppress the very corporations that employ the working class is beyond me, when what they want is a job. Why is it considered radical to believe in personal accountability for actions? Why would some one vote for a president that is destroying the constitution by eliminating religious freedoms? Why vote to make America's economy weak? Obama's economic plan to redistribute wealth is stagnant, it creates no new wealth. Not to mention that with the global economy we have if the united states is not business friendly, business can move shop to other countries in a hurry who will be glad to accommodate them. If voting for an America that is based on printing money instead of earning it, an America without the stability and honour of it's constitution as given by inspiration to the founding fathers, a president who incites racism and sexism to bolster his votes is change for the better than I will never understand your kind of logic.

I've never heard these silly mormon versions before. The first pick-up line I ever remember hearing goes like this, "Baby, if I could rewrite the alphabet I would put U and I together." But I never tried any pick up lines out.

My understanding is that the most common cause of joint pain is an inflammatory response. This makes it fairly important to determine what is causing the inflammation. For some it is because of faulty movement patterns where a corrective exercise professional such as a physiotherapist might be your best bet, for others it is an inflammatory condition such as rheumatoid arthritis. Lots of joint pain also actually has its root cause in the muscles. You might find great relief learning about myofascial trigger points and how to treat them with self massage or implements to apply pressure to specific tender areas. As for herbs, or supplements some pretty good ones have been mentioned. Glucosamine is thought to help increase synovial fluid in your joints and rebuild cartilage or at least prevent further degradation which is particularly useful for osteoarthritis. Boswelia, turmuric, curcumin and devil's claw are supposed to be pretty good anti-inflammatory compounds that should help in a variety of joint pain conditions. Tart Cherry is supposed to help clear out purines and acids that contribute to gout. A great product for increasing circulation to and thereby improving nourishment and waste removal is MSM. It also serves as a mild muscle relaxant and is an effective pain management aid in many cases of joint pain. Fish oils high in omega 3 fatty acids are also anti-inflammatory and may also provide some aid. A more expensive pine bark extract known as pycnogenol is also a very powerful antioxidant that has been shown to be effective in many cases of joint pain as well. I would personally start with MSM and fish oil. I would also highly recommend looking into trigger points, the web is full of information about self treatment as well as having access to books for sale. One such place with products that appear to be good, but I haven't yet purchased anything there myself, is saveyourself.ca. This is website made by an investigative journalist/massage therapist who has dedicated a lot of time and energy into understanding and eradicating joint pain.

The Paleo diet has some really good features going in it's favor, however it is far from the ideal diet for health or even weight-loss... and certain versions of it are indeed somewhat in opposition to the word of wisdom. The best thing about the paleo diet is that it gets adherents to clean up their diet; no more processed flours and sugar, chemical laden food-like substances etc. Many people feel fantastic eating this way simply because of the avoidance of non-foods. However, they could feel equally well enjoying grains alongside the other foods proscribed for their use by the paleo mantra. Paleo gurus will try to impress people with all manner of pseudo-science to extol the health benefits and create a make-believe history of people eating this way, and they will also turn around and contradict themselves without even realizing it. For instance Loren Cordain, a founding promoter of the paleo movement, bashes eating grains and uses the thought process that before agriculture standing armies could not exist because of lack of nourishment... hardly a good cause to avoid them. Further the idea is largely promoted based on the theory of evolution stating that prehistoric man ate this way (unproven speculation) and that although we have evolved since then, we have not evolved to eat a different diet... again contradicting themselves at least partially (did we evolve or didn't we?). Interestingly enough modern researchers have shown that across the world all kinds of cultural diets have effectively sustained man through-out the ages and we can adapt extremely quickly to different diets. This is because a much greater amount of our digestion is completed by our internal bacteria than previously thought and the bacterial populations change rapidly in response to the food that is available to them. So within a matter of weeks some one could effectively alter their digestive processes to be set up for ideally assimilating a meat laden Atkins-like diet to effectively breaking down a fiber heavy raw vegan diet, or vice versa (hardly millions of years of evolution). Now as a member of the church I buy into the idea of creation over evolution in the first place, so admittedly I am biased. The bible teaches that agriculture existed as early as Cain who was a farmer. Adam was told that by the sweat of his brow he would eat his bread. So in the world history that I believe there never was a period of neanderthals thumping wild beasts to devour and scraping up bits and pieces of plant food to fill in gaps. Daniel (and friends) in the bible ate pulses (legumes) instead of the kings meat and were healthier than the others. The most common rendition of the paleo diet that I personally hear being talked about is a repackaged take on the atkins diet but cleverly marketed with false history and having the organic only theme added in. This is in direct contrast to the word of wisdom which tells us grains (wheat in particular) are to be the staff of life, and meat eaten sparingly (and preferably not at all). Other interesting points to consider include the fact that diets that restrict carbohydrates do lead to faster weight-loss initially, but at one year out they are no more effective than low fat (meat) diets or diets simply using moderation in all things. Further while a diet such as the atkins or paleo diet can help control the progression of modern diseases like diabetes and heart disease, a diet low in animal products and high in grains such as the Ornish diet or the diet recommended by Neal Barnard where the new four food group would be fruits, vegetables, grains, and legumes actually can reverse heart disease and diabetes and it is clinically proven by real science instead of simply promoted by self-proclaimed gurus. At the end of the day eating the paleo diet is probably healthier than the average western diet, but it is not ideal nor is it necessary. Moderation in all things is a great approach. Minimizing or eliminating junk-food is a fantastic idea, sort of a temporal version of cleaning up our lives. Replacing the junk-food with living foods like fruits and vegetables is even better. I would be very cautious to follow any dietary advice that is extremist and in opposition to the diet God has given his people.

I know in my own experience I have found living around other tenants in rental situations that they can tend to have a lot of annoyingly loud laughter. The laughter does not even have to be audibly loud in this case to annoy, but simply the attitude of mockery that prevails within certain lines of conversation. The Lord is not opposed to a sense of humor. Laughter is generally associated with cheerfulness and happiness that is a blessing. The Lord does however warn against EXCESS loud laughter. If a person becomes devoted to the trivial so that everything is laughable then life becomes a mockery and there is no time to reflect on things of the spirit, no place for reverence, and the laughter chokes out our progression... it becomes too loud to allow the whisperings of the still small voice in to our hearts.

I gave up trick or treating by choice when I was twelve years old because I thought I was too old. I ended up regretting giving it up so young, I think there is no good reason to stop trick or treating until you need to pull your weight on the other side handing candy out.

My sister-in-law has had Crohn's since she graduated highschool four years ago. In that time she has tried various diets such as the restricted(??) carbohydrate diet, raw food diet, gluten free, dairy free, detox cleanses after trying what the doctors suggested for around two years. She still deals with the condition, but she does seem to have a higher quality of life since trying the various diets and natural health alternatives. Avoiding gluten can be particularly difficult because it is not only found in wheat, but also many other grains. Although oats do not contain gluten themselves, they are usually harvested or processed by equipment that also process other gluten containing grains. It is also in most processed foods, so prepackaged convenience foods are out. While gluten and dairy sensitivity and intolerance can cause a lot of problems for some people, I think it is important to get tested for it rather than just cutting it out. These food groups add a variety of nutrients to the diet that are not always easily obtained from other sources. The only reason I can imagine for cutting out legumes is that the fibers can be irritating to the digestive tract and interrupt healing of lesions. Sensitivities to them are less common in my understandings. Cutting out red-meat is likely a precaution because of its correlation with colorectal cancer. Besides it seems to be in keeping with the word of wisdom to keep meat consumption low.

I personally am opposed to the idea of "designer babies." I think it is against the way God intends children to come into the world. I also realize that for most people this would set me apart as a religious whacko and my argument would be shot down. I also think it is unethical because overtime it could likely increase the stigma against certain individuals with undesirable features, because they would be "preventable conditions." For instance disproportionately large heads or shortness that add diversity to the world may be looked at as preventable and therefore "inexcusable" attributes. It makes appearance even more like brand name clothes than it already is.

In my observation it is another attack on the family that occurs in society and has unfortunately invaded some aspects of the church as well. Men have been made out to be kind of useless stooges by the media (think Homer Simpson, Archie Bunker, Dan from Roseanne and any other number of tools given as representative of the male gender). These misconstrued notions that men are only sexually driven morons does also unfortunately surface in the church as well. The worst part is that as men we attack ourselves with ridicule. This last conference my stake had pizza before the priesthood session, which is fine, except that it was announced as though we required a bribe to come listen. When I was single I recall hearing countless stories of the need to man up and ask girls out... and I did ask lots of girls out, but more often than not it was the girls that only wanted to hang out and avoid any kind of committed relationship. Not that I am attempting to belittle girls or women in any way either, because the media and society have successfully helped women to belittle themselves into thinking that their greatest contribution to society, which is motherhood, is of little importance compared to career and power and looks and other frivolous pursuits when viewed with an eternal perspective. Anyways my point is that YES I think men can tend to get a bum wrap in the church. However, I know that God operates by helping us to see what we can be and helping make our weaknesses strengths. Thus it is our own weaknesses as humans that lend themselves to us attacking each-other to feel better about ourselves, and it is our own vulnerabilities that blow these attacks out of proportion and leave us feeling victimized. I don't know who the quote belongs to, but I've always enjoyed this saying, "He who takes offense when none is intended is a fool. He who takes offense when offense is intended is a bigger fool." I think there is a lot of truth in this saying, which means I have spent much of my life being a fool by taking offense. Try to remember whose opinion matters (Gods) and work to live in such a way that you are valuable to Him, and try to disregard the extra noise from the world, even the worldly noise that exists within the church.

Marlin1 this is likely the best way of looking at this anyone has ever shared with me, thankyou.

Hi, I am interested in following doctrinal discussions from time to time and asking some questions of my own. I am an active church member who served a mission in the united states a decade ago.

I appreciate the thoughts so far. However, when I read Moses 3:16 and 17 it seems to me that this is very much a commandment. In all things we are free to choose our actions, but the consequences are set forth. Agency is a fundamental part of God's plan. I would tend to agree that Adam would not likely have partaken of the fruit without the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth, but this only serves to reinforce the contradictory nature of the commands. He saw that to keep one he must breech the other. Now it does seem apparent that disobedience was required for man to fall, and the fall was required for the plan of happiness to unfold, but under the conditions of two opposing instructions. My wife just threw an interesting thought at me however, that may be something to ponder upon. She mentioned how sometimes the Lord commands people to kill, even though we are commanded not to kill. This can be seen by the children of israel being commanded to stone certain sinners, such as to kill a killer for killing, so they exact upon the perpetrator a similar act to which s/he committed but it is counted as good to them and not evil. Along the same line of thought that it is better a man should die than a nation should dwindle in unbelief, perhaps it is better for God to create the conditions of the fall so that His plan would unfold... even if it meant giving contradictory commandments. I am still not fully satisfied with this answer at the moment either, but it is a thought provoker.