SpiritDragon

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  1. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to Vort in Long fasting: My first three experiences   
    THIRD LONG FAST
    I had an abortive fast attempt that began on March 9 and ended less than two days later. I had to make a trip a few hundred miles away, and on the way to the airport, my wife wanted to eat at an authentic Neapolitan pizzeria in the Seattle area that I had eaten at many years before when working in that area, and that I had told her how great it was. I barely remembered it until we got there, but it was indeed very good. For the sake of a date with my wife, I stopped the experimental fast after only about 46 hours. I thought that I may not do any long fasting in March. Turns out the opportunity presented itself later that month.
    DAY 0: Sunday 21 March 2021
    I began fasting after talking with my daughter-in-law over some specific concerns she had. My goal in this fast was to implore the Lord that his hand be shown and certain changes be effected in people's lives. I had no specific goal for how long the fast would last. I last ate between maybe 7 pm and 10 pm, so when I started keeping track a few days later, I estimated 8:30 pm as the approximate starting time. For the first 24 hours or so, this was a full fast, neither eating nor drinking anything.
    I did not weigh myself at the start of the fast, though I estimate my weight was something close to 98 kg (216 lbs). My mind and spirit were focused on the matters at hand, and not with weight loss or the effects of fasting or any such thing. Nevertheless, after a few days I started keeping some track of my weight. I think the spiritual aspect of my fast suffered when I started examining my reactions closely. I do not believe that such self-awareness per se necessarily works against the spiritual effects of fasting. I do, however, think that my own strength and ability in fasting is immature and undeveloped enough that pulling my attention away from the declared purpose of my fast even just to see how much I weigh and ask myself how I'm feeling is apparently enough to disrupt my "fasting mindset".
    This is a valuable insight for me long-term. I don't want to lose the self-aware, self-examining aspect of fasting, but I even more don't want to lose out on spiritual growth and insight and other blessings because I'm so busy navel-gazing or distracted with unimportant trivia that I miss the actual spiritual blessings of the fast. So this is something I will have to think about going forward.
    DAY 3: Wednesday 24 March 2021
    This was the first day I weighed myself: 94.6 kg (208.6 lbs) at 7 pm. By this time, I had been drinking water. In retrospect, I was not drinking enough. This was the fast where I figured out that I had been dehydrated in previous extended fasts. So future efforts at extended fasting will include drinking a lot more water, even if I have to drink it on a scheduled regimen.
    Effects: By Wednesday, I had entered the period of feeling relaxed/a bit weak. Less overall feeling of discomfort or hunger. Making a list of foods I found myself wanting seemed to lessen or eliminate some of the obsession I had previously felt about food in general and certain dishes in particular. Toward the end of my fast, I found myself not really caring about eating specific foods. So I think that was a small breakthrough of sorts in this fast.
    DAY 4: Thursday 25 March 2021
    93.6 kg (206.4 lbs) at 7:00 pm.
    Effects: Nothing in particular
    DAY 5: Friday 26 March 2021
    92.6 kg (204.2 lbs) at 5:00 pm. Losing about 1 kg per day. I did some moderate yard work for about an hour in the early evening, moving wheelbarrows full of dirt (probably about 250 pounds per wheelbarrowfull, enough that I had to work at it) and shoveling stuff around to prepare for grass seeding the following week. It wasn't easy, and I was weaker than usual and had to rest a lot, but I was surprised by how much I could do. I thought I would be weak as a kitten and not be able to do much. That's not how it was.
    Effects: Nothing substantial. Even after my hour of yardwork, I felt good. It was at about this point that I began suspecting I had been dehydrated during this and previous long fasts.
    DAY 6: Saturday 27 March 2021
    My son and his family flew home on this day. I continued fasting for another day. At 11:00 pm I weighed 91.8 kg (202.4 lbs).
    Effects: Honestly, I felt fine. Relaxed, a bit tired, but not bad at all.
    DAY 7: Sunday 28 March 2021
    I broke my fast just before 5 pm, when the missionaries came to eat with us. I weighed myself just before eating, and was at 90.7 kg or 200 lbs, the first time I've weighed 200 pounds in probably 15 years.
    Effects: I was fine.
    Total fast time: 164 hours 30 minutes ± 90 minutes (6 days, 20 hours, 30 minutes ± 90 minutes)
    AFTERMATH
    I avoided overeating when breaking my fast. As I wrote in an entry above, the following day I had some sharp stomach pains that led me to think that I may have developed an ulcer from fasting. But the pain subsided within half a day, and I was just fine after that. So I don't think there was any ulcer. [NOTE: It was a gallstone, so not fast-related.] Still, I may add the occasional glass of baking soda water to my drink when fasting for extended periods. I suspect just maintaining a good hydration level will probably be sufficient to avoid such problems in the future.
    CONCLUSION AND RETROSPECTIVE
    I think my tracking of my weight and general feeling took my mind off of the purpose of my fasting, which is unfortunate. I need to be single-minded in my fasting, not worrying about trivia and nonsense. Not exactly sure how that will factor into possible future extended fasts. If I continue these experiments, I should possibly consider holding a separate spiritual fast once per month, unaffiliated with any "long" fasts, during which I simply give myself over to fasting for however long I feel I should, without worrying about anything else. But despite my personal failings, this fast was a very positive experience, even joyful, something I look forward to repeating.
  2. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to Vort in Long fasting: My first three experiences   
    Very interesting. I had never heard of this. Thank you for sharing your concern. This looks like a very good reason to make sure food intake is restrained when coming off of an extended fast.
  3. Like
    SpiritDragon got a reaction from Vort in Long fasting: My first three experiences   
    @Vort I look forward to reading these posts in greater detail as I get time. I've only skimmed and may have missed some important notes and if so, disregard my desire to help as being redundant. I was noting your stomach pains after eating following not eating for around a week and was wondering if you are familiar with refeeding syndrome. I don't think you've experienced it, but it is a possibility to be familiar with. I personally never fast longer than 48 hours just to be safe since I can't be bothered to do a medically supervised fast. I'm sure most of the time a week or so is great. Anyhow, refeeding syndrome can be fatal and I'd hate for you to pass on prematurely. Some primary concerns are electrolyte imbalances and a cascade of inadequate nutrition to properly metabolize food wherein by introducing food while specific nutrients are low (but the need for them is high to deal with the incoming food) it creates a situation where eating actually creates a greater need for nutrients (a key one being vitamin B1/thiamine) and can begin a cascade of unwanted effects such as organ failure and even death.
    Please undertand I am not trying to dissuade you from long fasts, but just want you to be aware of some risks and possibly work with a trusted advisor/do your own research to take appropriate precautions.... you may not intend to get that close to the Lord from your fasting just yet.
    https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/30/refeeding-syndrome-dont-forget-thiamine-deficiency
    https://www.healthline.com/health/refeeding-syndrome
  4. Like
    SpiritDragon got a reaction from Vort in Long fasting: My first three experiences   
    @Vort I look forward to reading these posts in greater detail as I get time. I've only skimmed and may have missed some important notes and if so, disregard my desire to help as being redundant. I was noting your stomach pains after eating following not eating for around a week and was wondering if you are familiar with refeeding syndrome. I don't think you've experienced it, but it is a possibility to be familiar with. I personally never fast longer than 48 hours just to be safe since I can't be bothered to do a medically supervised fast. I'm sure most of the time a week or so is great. Anyhow, refeeding syndrome can be fatal and I'd hate for you to pass on prematurely. Some primary concerns are electrolyte imbalances and a cascade of inadequate nutrition to properly metabolize food wherein by introducing food while specific nutrients are low (but the need for them is high to deal with the incoming food) it creates a situation where eating actually creates a greater need for nutrients (a key one being vitamin B1/thiamine) and can begin a cascade of unwanted effects such as organ failure and even death.
    Please undertand I am not trying to dissuade you from long fasts, but just want you to be aware of some risks and possibly work with a trusted advisor/do your own research to take appropriate precautions.... you may not intend to get that close to the Lord from your fasting just yet.
    https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/30/refeeding-syndrome-dont-forget-thiamine-deficiency
    https://www.healthline.com/health/refeeding-syndrome
  5. Like
    SpiritDragon got a reaction from pam in Why is taco seasoning so bad?   
    Too often the yummiest dishes are this way and when following a recipe it just doesn't turn out quite right, there's something magical about the just knowing the right amounts in the moment based on ingredients on hand!
    Hopefully yours transfer well into recipes though! Maybe I'm just not good at getting things written down accurately or following other's directions.
  6. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to Carborendum in The Tolerance of the Church   
    I admitted as much.
    I partially disagree.
    It is not about a single cue.  It is when multiple cues all come together that the level of certainty rises.  Also, see below.
    I'm certain that may be true.  I think you misunderstood my words.
    Never said I was.  I actually said the opposite:  No such thing as 100% certain.
    You may be right that certain signals are simply "rebellion".  But what is rebellion nowadays characterized by?  I'd venture to say that for a conservative, LDS family a major display of rebellion would be to join in with the LGBT lifestyle.  The extreme would be to say "I'm not only supporting them, I AM one."
    Now, I'll prepare a response for the inevitable accusations about people being born that way or not. MY POSITION: I think there is a sliding scale.
  7. Haha
    SpiritDragon got a reaction from mirkwood in President Nelson vaccinated   
    The moderators should really look into this MG/NT sock puppet thing
  8. Haha
    SpiritDragon got a reaction from mirkwood in President Nelson vaccinated   
    The moderators should really look into this MG/NT sock puppet thing
  9. Haha
    SpiritDragon got a reaction from mirkwood in President Nelson vaccinated   
    The moderators should really look into this MG/NT sock puppet thing
  10. Love
    SpiritDragon reacted to Carborendum in Boring General Conference   
    Ahem.  Pres Oaks delivers.
  11. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to Carborendum in The Shame of Elder Renlund   
    The issue I have with the "disease" analogy in this context is that with sin, there is always a choice.  With pathogens, we often don't have a choice.
    On the other hand, there are often more things we can do to better our chances in each side of the analogy than we often realize.
  12. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to Carborendum in Conference Talks   
    First time, I've heard such discussion about the Constitution in GC. (cf Pres Oaks)
  13. Thanks
    SpiritDragon reacted to Carborendum in Youth Fireside - Sinking Titanic   
    I don't know how many of you caught the youth fireside last night.  Brother Brad Wilcox (BYU Religion Professor and Counselor in the Young Men's General Presidency) was the featured speaker.
    I gave the analogy that the world is the Titanic and the Church is the lifeboat.  The details he gave from the research he did on the Titanic was enlightening.
    I had to have a special meeting with my family to discuss it.  I told them that I had never in my many years on this earth heard anything so clear, blunt, & explicit from Church Headquarters that basically said, "This is it, folks."
    I was reminded of the gravest warning I've heard in my lifetime: Ezra Taft Benson's speech "Awaken to our awful situation."  Sadly, I can't seem to find it on Youtube in its unedited, unimbelished form.
    For those of you who remember that... How does it feel to be under martial law in the US?
  14. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to Grunt in President Nelson vaccinated   
    And that's the issue, really.  Norway, as I pointed out, suggested the risk of the vaccine isn't worth the supposed benefit.   It really depends on your age, condition, and potential reactions to mRNA vaccines.  The groups that appear to have less concern from catching the virus also have less concern from the vaccine.  The inverse is also true.  
    Your closing statement is one of the biggest issues I have with this.  Data is hard to find and information that doesn't fit the message is spun or suppressed.  People refuse to be objective, as we've seen in this thread, even.  

    Fortunately, the DOD isn't making this mandatory.  I've opted to pass thus far.  There are just too many variables.  How often will I have to get the vaccine?  How long does it last?  Is it protection from all strains?  Can I stop wearing the mask since I'm immune?   Can I stop social distancing since I'm immune?  Am I even immune?  
  15. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to Anddenex in President Nelson vaccinated   
    I think it was pretty obvious the numbers I was using with regards to the article, which showcased 42,000 vaccinations given in that region with 32 deaths. As with any statistic it all depends on the numbers used. I'm no mathematician either, but I'm sure if you take the percentage of the numbers from the article (given again for your benefit) I think you will come up with the same percentage from that "pool" of people.
    Also notice the general statement -- "Let's say this remains static..." Using, once again, the pool of 32 out of 42,000, which again should have been obvious. I understood there have been more vaccines. Where did you get your number of 35 deaths? I hope you weren't using 35 for 32 for your 71.3 million statistic. Remember that 32 given was from that report of 42,000 vaccines. Surely, since you gave that number 35 you can show the report that specifies 35 deaths out of 71.3 M vaccinations for your math?
    EDIT: and my numbers are off by one it was 33 not 32 out of 42,000.
    I'm pretty sure Covid and the vaccine have about the same risk to my life, so not to worried either way. And the point of my message above wasn't the statistic, which obviously was using a pool of people from the article with a higher death possibility than the one you have given. It was this:
    "This is why I place very little trust in the arm of flesh. Underlying conditions were seen as Covid deaths (all last year), but now with the vaccine they are giving excuses it isn't the vaccine, they had underlying conditions. It would be nice if things were simply reported accurately, rather than spewing the fear one way, while denying it the other way."
  16. Love
    SpiritDragon reacted to Anddenex in President Nelson vaccinated   
    This article is the type of backwards talk that has been inconsistent since the beginning of Covid. In this article, it is interesting how they minimize the death correlated with the vaccine with "underlying conditions" but since last year they have been reporting "underlying conditions" and Covid as -- Covid is the worst virus ever. Imagine if they treated these death correlated with the vaccine as they have treated other deaths with underlying conditions? I mean, if the article (once read a while back) was correct they applied a Covid death of a man who was killed in a motorcycle accident.
    Also, if you calculate 32 out of 42000 death that gives you 0.00076% chance of dying from the vaccine (correlation).
    In Utah we have a population of 3.2 million, with about 1600 deaths total in roughly a year now. The total death percentage and likelihood of death from Covid is 0.0005%. That's not very comforting.
    Let's say this remains static, and everyone in the world decided to give in and obtain the vaccine. This potential deaths would lead us to 5,600,000 deaths correlated with the vaccine. More than what has died in the first year from Covid. Just using the same principle that started with Covid in the beginning of this pandemic. At first I heard it had a 10% death rate. If 100 people were found with Covid 10 would die. Then my brother was all about all the research and family texts of 4-5% (fear, run, scare). Now, with actual statistics it is much, much lower. Should we treat these correlated deaths with the vaccine as they treated Covid correlated deaths in the beginning?
    This is why I place very little trust in the arm of flesh. Underlying conditions were seen as Covid deaths (all last year), but now with the vaccine they are giving excuses it isn't the vaccine, they had underlying conditions. It would be nice if things were simply reported accurately, rather than spewing the fear one way, while denying it the other way.
  17. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to person0 in President Nelson vaccinated   
    I understand data.  When the virus first hit I regularly downloaded the CDC data to do my own statistical analysis.  It appears to me that you may be interpreting more from my words than what is being said, and more than what is meant.  I disagree with the person who made the statement about getting the virus and dying in six months rather than three; I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy.  I think my statement of facts from the beginning is very simple.
    FACT:  Old people have died in response to the vaccine.
    FACT:  President Nelson is within the proper age group to be negatively affected, but as far as we know, has none of the pre-existing issues that would result in an adverse reaction (i.e. death).
    FACT:  It can be reasonably assumed that if President Nelson were to die from an adverse reaction to the vaccine, millions of members would shy away from taking it.  It can likewise be reasonably assumed that the absence of an adverse reaction will soften the hearts of millions who might otherwise be opposed, for whatever reason.
    I haven't said a single thing to suggest the vaccine is bad, or to suggest people shouldn't take it, etc.  You seem to be in some kind of defense mode where every negative sounding statement about the vaccine automatically makes someone an anti-vaxer or something.  I suppose it makes sense given you were part of the trial, but it still seems overblown and inappropriate.
  18. Love
    SpiritDragon reacted to person0 in President Nelson vaccinated   
    Sure, now can you get the people who record all COVID-19 death's to follow that same advice?
    I heard someone put it this way:
    If people are willing to say that about the virus, why change tune when speaking of the vaccine?
  19. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to Grunt in President Nelson vaccinated   
    Sure, BUT there are is a known risk of severe side effects from mRNA vaccines.   A search of VAERS shows there to be death and injury associated with the vaccine.  The Norwegian Health Ministry released a warning regarding it.    People have died as a result of being vaccinated.  
    It's sad to see people picking and choosing when "underlying conditions" matter and when they don't, depending on their bias.
  20. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to person0 in President Nelson vaccinated   
    You all do know that the vaccine is only expected to provide protection for one year, right?
    https://www.verywellhealth.com/length-of-covid-19-vaccine-immunity-5094857
  21. Love
    SpiritDragon reacted to NeuroTypical in 2019 Weight Loss Group   
    Heh - you tell me.  This is what the chart looks like today:

     
    I'm happy to report my awful mostly-vegan diet is still going mostly strong.  That last uptick is about 5 lbs across 6 months - it aligns perfectly with the start of COVID and me getting sent home from work - I lost my exercise classes and gym.  Fortunately, they opened up my favorite mountain hike last month, and I'm doing that weekly now.
     
     
  22. Like
    SpiritDragon got a reaction from NeuroTypical in 2019 Weight Loss Group   
    I'm glad you recovered from your heart attack. Sorry I dropped off the map. I have way less time to spare for checking into this group and I wasn't convinced I was doing anyone any good anyway. Now a year later, have you maintained the weight loss and near vegan diet?
  23. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to Still_Small_Voice in 2A Sanctuary Counties and States   
    I heard the restrictions on full capacity magazines are toothless in Colorado.  Many gun dealers sell sixteen to thirty round magazine parts kits.  They are not assembled so you can buy one legally.  Then one can take it home assemble it and have your own thirty round full capacity magazine.  (Like you could not go to Wyoming or Utah and buy a full capacity magazine and bring it home anyway.)
    It's too bad the Colorado courts ruled against the common citizen owning sixteen to thirty round magazines.  It doesn't matter though.  Most Sheriffs in Colorado refuse to enforce the magazine capacity restrictions and also thankfully the Colorado red flag gun confiscation laws.
  24. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to pam in Reported posts   
    It seems to the moderating team that we are getting more and more posts being reported by "guests."  Yet they appear to be extremely familiar with the forum members etc.  
    Many times we want to communicate with the person who has reported a post if we need clarification or perhaps clear up a misunderstanding.  We can't do that with an anonymous person.  Plus it makes it appear as if perhaps a disgruntled former member just has it out for someone. 
    Going forward:  Except with the case of pornography, vulgar language and spamming the site, we will not take action on a reported post that is done by a guest.  It must be done by an actual named forum member.  
     
  25. Like
    SpiritDragon reacted to Jamie123 in The Hobbit (As you've never seen it before!)   
    Unfortunate it may be, but it's not gone unnoticed that this version does at least make some sense out of the bizarre cover artwork of the original authorized US edition of Lord of the Rings.

    (Emus? What was that artist smoking when he read the books!?)