AnnieCarvalho

Like most of what's being discussed in this forum is a productive use of time?

I believe that not all Mormons believe the same things. :)

At this point I have not googled any other discussion about this topic so all I have is the information in this thread - but I'm a bit upset right now. I don't want to end up in a huge quagmire of church bashing on the net over this which is why I'm not clicking any further. But I need help understanding - prior to this I wasn't aware that children of polygamous marriages were not allowed to be baptised.  
 
Please help me understand if you can.
 
Isn't this policy punishing children because of the sins of their parents? 
 
Let's say an 8 year old desires to be baptised, and his gay parents agree to let him attend church, primary, etc, (perhaps with member relatives or friends), then where is the harm in that if the parents are ok with it?
 
How does this relate to our 2nd Article of Faith or the principle contained in scripture in John 9:13, where the Saviour says the blind man was not born that way because of the sins of his parents?
 
If the children of gay couples can't be baptised because of their parents' lifestyle, then how is that different to baptising the child of unwed or co-habiting parents who have no interest in the church but are willing to allow their child to be part of it?
 
I'd like to share my own personal example so you know where I'm coming from - I was born into a dysfunctional situation of every conceivable kind of immorality you can think of. In fact, I am the product of a brief sexual relationship between my then teenage mother and my then professional athlete, married with children - father.  He was never in my life growing up. My own mother at one point was into Satanism and when I was 16 she refused permission for me to join the church as she was told it was a cult (oh, the irony). As a child I rebelled against it all (by not participating) and was punished severely for my views. I was naturally drawn to churches - any Christian church. I would walk by myself to local churches where-ever we lived (we moved often) and loved hearing the stories of Jesus Christ and looking at images of the Passion of Christ in some churches I visited. Where did this desire come from? Somehow the light of Christ found me even thought I lived in a situation where spiritual darkness was all around me. I can only praise God in my heart every time I think of how he let me know of the reality of his love in spite of my family background.  
 
So, let's say my mother was gay (she was bi-sexual) and raised me in a lesbian relationship (she didn't, it was much worse than that). As a child I would have leaped at the chance to be baptised into the church if my mother gave permission. I would have been hungry to be around good, solid families and spiritual beliefs that were wholesome and pure. How on earth would it benefit anyone -  if a child like the one I was, is denied baptism and full fellowship in the gospel until they are an adult?
 
I do not want to argue, but I do need some clarity here.

I come from Mormon stock where both maternal and paternal lines have been in the church for generations.  Much of the genealogy is done.  Verification of dates and information is still important.
 
For me personally, I love reading the journals of some of my ancestors.  This brings me closer to them and I can see similarities with their personality and mine.  I feel a kinship and appreciation for them that I never felt before.
 
I have had several deeply spiritual experiences regarding temple work needing to be done for extended family members.  One was a cousin who died when she was 13 years old.  Her family was not active.  And, for those of us who were active we never thought of getting her Initiatory and Endowment work done.  Shortly after my grandfather passed away, when I was meditating about wanting more spiritual experiences, I had a distinct impression come into my mind, (and I knew it was from my grandfather), that this particular cousin needed her temple work done.  I remember jumping up and running to the phone to ask my grandmother if she knew if anyone had done the temple work.  Long story short, I submitted her name for the temple work.  Some 30 plus years later, I was able to be her proxy as we sealed her to her parents who had by then passed away.
 
About one year ago, I attended the funeral of the father of my son's brother-in-law.  So, no blood line for me.  That night after the funeral I could not sleep.  As I lay in bed for hours, trying to sleep, I was going over the funeral in my mind.  This family was also not very active.  Now both parents were deceased of this particular family member, and he also had a brother who had passed away about 2 years before that.  And I got to thinking, I wonder if that son had his temple work done, and now that both parents were dead, we could seal him to his parents.  I got super energized thinking about it, which of course kept sleep further away.  We were able to get permission to have the temple work reserved, and we are working on going to the temple to get it done within a month or two.  I believe the Spirit of Elijah was working on me in this case.  Also, we have come to find out that there is a family connection on my husband's side to the mother of this young man.  So, now my son knows that he is related to his brother-in-law.
 
The reason I share these two experiences is that we often think, "oh, the genealogy is already done for my family", but there may be recent family members from less active branches of the family who need their temple work done, and often times permission is granted to have the temple work done by less active members.
 
Another way I do Family History is by scanning all the old and new family photos I can find into the computer.  And, then I share them with extended family on FaceBook or in any way I can.  There have been many family members who have been very grateful to receive copies, even if it's only on the computer.  I also have requested the Patriarchal Blessings from Church Headquarters of my deceased Grandparents, G.Grandparents, and so on.  It has been very rewarding to read these blessings.

Jesus Christ was not merely arrested, but convicted, sentenced, and executed as an insurrectionist and an enemy of the state. If Joseph Smith is to be condemned by antiMormons for merely being arrested, he is in excellent company.

I decided that the fellow in the back could just tell the person in front of him the color of his hat, then that person could tell the next one, etc.
 
The only person not knowing the color of his hat would be the guy in the back, and he'd have a 50/50 chance of getting it right. But I think I remember that only 9 out of 10 had to be correct?
 
When I listened to the rest of the tape, it made sense, but it hurt my head. 

Thank you for your explanation. 
I'm sorry people were rude to you.
I hope you find the answers you are seeking.

Thank you for your explanation. 
I'm sorry people were rude to you.
I hope you find the answers you are seeking.

They really need a "laugh" button on this website!   

Thank you for your post.  I hope that in the future that all of us can be a little more kinder and respectful.  That goes both ways.

I am sorry that my questions have caused so much discord on your forum, so I hope to make amends here.
 
After reading a number of posts after I had said goodbye, it seems many of you have made some assumptions about me. But rather than leave things at that I would like to take this time and clear up the misconceptions many have about me.
 
My name is Byron Xxxxxxxx, I am a Canadian teacher currently working and living in China. I am well travelled having visited nearly 30 countries now and though I am not a big fan of the lesser vices of man I do find a form of contentment learning about why people do what they do.
 
I am not a strong Christian, I am not a regular church goer, but I do believe with all my heart that Jesus was the son of God. I was indoctrinated in the Lutheran Church but never really took to the additional things they added to Christianity (similar to how the Catholics do). In my walk as a Christian I have heard uncountable times the branding of faiths like Mormonism or Jehovah Witnesses as being unscriptural cults that hide themselves behind a veil of truth to better disguise their lie. I feared my mind may have been poisoned by man's prejudices and hatred of things he does not understand. Thus I have spoken to people of quite a few faiths now; Muslim's in Dubai and the Philippines, Catholics all over the world, Jehovah Witnesses at my front door (lol), People of the Bahia faith in India, but I had up till now not had opportunity to really talk to Mormons. Perhaps it was the fact that whenever I saw a Mormon, I was too busy, not ready to talk or simply the will of God.
 
I came to this forum with many misconceptions and prejudices, but I sincerely tried to ignore these by simply asking some of the questions I was most concerned with.
 
I understand what it is like to be an apologetic for your faith in the face of adversity. Both China and the middle east are not overly welcoming of Christianity. The constant challenging of my faith can, at times, bring the worst out in me. However after my frustration subsides, I realize that I failed God and man once again.
I pray for forgiveness and if I cannot make amends I move on knowing that Though I may have failed my neighbor, God will not give up on him.
 
I have never been a part of any workshop with an agenda outside of studying the bible. I have never had a secret agenda to debunk Mormonism or any other faith. I trust in the complete word of God (which I believe to rest singularly in the bible). I have no interest in understanding the specifics of other faiths, but I do have interest in understanding the people who believe in other faiths.
 
The human part of me really wanted to lash out at those of you who lashed out at me. The self-righteous part of me wanted to condemn those who condemned me. It was the holy spirit that rests in me that tempered my response and had me pray to God for patience and tolerance.
 
God is good.
 
Still as I told one of you, who did actually send men a very pleasant email,  I was able to look past the unpleasantness to learn that many of my misconceptions were in error.
 
In closing, I would like to remind you all that only people who are hurt seek to hurt others. That if you take things personally, you allow yourself to be hurt. You all have the power to avoid this. And you all have the gift of being able to ask God for strength, understanding and forgiveness. So should someone come to you not just with questions, but accusations and judgments, you can better serve your faith.
 
I do not believe God wants us to fight each other, I believe God wants us to live in his word, deliver his word and love through his word. And that should someone seek to harm us, "we offer up our other cheek."
 
I hope I have made myself clear.
 
God Bless

Someone's feeling vulnerable when his pants are down...

Amateurs.  This is the safe I have just for my bathroom.
 
 
 

I am totally with you on this, Anatess.
 
I honestly do not get the gnashing of teeth over some thin fabric.   Women of the world won't hesitate to wear Spanx in the name of vanity, but sacred garments are just too much to bear?  I guess anything more than a thong is considered oppression these days.  I wonder how some women would survive where I grew up - in the wintertime, it wasn't unusual to wear regular underwear with thermal "long johns" (flowered ones for girls!) over that so you wouldn't freeze your fanny off.
 
I had never heard of garments prior to investigating the church. My initial reaction was...meh...that's kind of weird.  But I come from Orthodox Judaism so I can trump that "weirdness" with other "weird" practices, no problem (pm if you're curious).  Plus, it's not the only religion with some variation of a religious garment, so in both of those contexts it was only weird for about a second and a half.
 
  Indeed, as I spent my year between baptism and endowment preparing for the temple, I came to look on the wearing of the garment as a sacred privilege and was - sincerely - looking forward to that privilege.  I have spoken to other women who felt the same.  My first trip to the distribution center to purchase garments was a special occasion for me.  I took along an endowed friend and between her and the sister at the distribution center and - I know there are some who will roll their eyes - it was a memorable experience with the presence of the Spirit evident.  (As it was buying temple clothing).
 
After a little bit of experimentation with fabrics and styles (I, too, am vertically challenged), I just don't struggle to wear them.  Sure, sometimes I have to give a tug here or make an adjustment there, but they are such a natural part of life that I'm not walking around constantly thinking "Oh, I have these terrible garments on".  I would feel weird without them.  There was actually a day when I was really, really sick and when I was finally able to drag my miserable self into the shower and change into a fresh nightgown, I was still so miserable and non-functional and after a little bit realized something felt wrong but it took me a few minutes to identify it. I hadn't put my garments on.
 
I have health issues (including an exquisite sensitivity to heat) that I know more than a few people would say "excuse" me from wearing garments at least some of the time.  But I would rather focus on figuring out how to make it work, than look for a reason not to wear them.  Again, I feel that it is a sacred privilege and that's always worth trying to do my best.
 
As for wearing panties and garments together?  I was specifically told when I was endowed that that is acceptable.  And my understanding is that there are also men who wear briefs under their garments, as well.
 
A couple of thin layers of fabric isn't going to kill anyone.

My mother works her line and appears to be finding names, so I try to avoid so we don't overlap.  I am trying to work my father's line and we are stuck at my great great great grandfather.
 
We have a record of him and grandma married, but to be the correct person they would have been married at 11 years old, so that isn't correct.
 
The problem, they migrated to the states and three weeks after arriving he passed away.  So he was never on any census record here in the States and finding him in Europe -- London hasn't been easy.  I have spent 20 hours or so alone and still haven't found him -- that is frustrating, and not enjoyable.  
 
We, as a family, index.  The moment our children are on record they begin indexing. We create an LDS account and then get them started. As my older son said, when our bishop 10 minutes before Church invited him to speak in sacrament about indexing, "Do I enjoy indexing -- no." :)

Personally, I prefer ancestry.com (which is free for LDS members) to the Family Search program.
There are several reasons.
 
First, ancestry.com has resources like census records, birth and death records, immigration records, so you can validate your entries. 
 
Second, nobody can come along and change your family tree. My experience with family search has been frustrating. I knew my grandparents, great grandparents, and a couple of the great-great-grandparents personally. I have their information and know it to be true. Several times I have gotten on Family Search to find that somebody has come along and changed my information. An example is an aunt who was born a twin. The twin sister died in infancy. But in the same state was another girl with the same name born the same day, and over and over, I've had people overwrite my tree with this other person's information, which is false. She was no relation. So it's just frustrating. 
 
Third, I have sent my DNA to ancestry.com and have found numerous cousins I didn't know existed, some living quite close. It's been fun connecting to people also working on our family - hearing their stories, etc.
 
And last, via the DNA, we have reconnected with several children who were given up for adoption as babies by various cousins and even second cousins. We've solved several mysteries and they have found their biological families. It's been pretty cool
 
The thing is, in order to do Temple Submissions, I'm having to transfer a gedcom of my Ancestry tree to Family Search, and that's a big job. At some point in the future, I"m hoping Ancestry.com will have the Temple Information available for LDS members. I have heard a rumor that it's in the working, and I hope that's true.
 
If you DO enjoy genealogy and are are LDS, you might give ancestry.com a try. It's very user friendly and a good way to be sure your research is supported by documentation. 

Yeh I know my father uses the ancestry.com resource but before that was super old school. He's a genealogy addict.

He lives in my heart and I live in His.

I love doing family history because I love stories of people, and the wisdom they've gathered through the ages.
 
Family History work is SO MUCH MORE than names and dates- it's a story.  I've the mega-soapbox when I'm teaching people at the family history center that you're not here for "a name" to take to the temple, but a person, and before you go to to the temple with this person, you should get to know them and become friends.

I understand, MormonGator . . . not everyone does.
 
I recently found two distant cousins who had been given up for adoption as newborns.
We found each other via the ancestry.com DNA - 
I knew who the first one was the minute I saw her photo.
The other was a mystery that took some digging, but who we finally identified.
It has really been rewarding.
 
I'm enjoy your blog, by the way.
The title intrigued me.
 
I especially liked the post where you told people not to worry if people called us too passionate about our politics/religion/hobbies, and that the world is lacking passion. 
 
It rang true.

It's a plain text file that can be read by most programs, and is usually used to transfer information from one program to another.  In the case of ancestry.com you make a gedcom file of your tree in order to transfer it to Family Tree Maker. 

I use the neti pot all the time, when I'm exposed to perfumes.
It works really well for me.
Just be sure to use sterile water and a good quality salt.
It takes some getting used to, closing off the throat in the back, but not hard once you figure it out.

1) yes
2) Christ came and taught it to the people in america (as well as people in other places)

I love working on family history. It's been years since i've been able to work on it very seriously. Little kids and homeschool keep a girl busy.
 
My parents do a great deal. They work in the local family history center once a week. And our stake has been encouraging and helping the youth to get more into it. So my oldest has worked quite a bit on indexing and has started going with the grandparents to the center every week to learn and work on family history.

Halloween is a subject in which my family made decisions based on impressions, cultural reactions, the opinions of others in church, and just on our subjective feelings.  It is one of the last issues I would fall on a sword over.  That said, it comes across as treating the spirit realm lightly, and of making the Devil, the demonic, the unrighteous as all trivial, fun, light and, well, just something to drink to.  It comes across like Mardi Gras -- something not really for us.  So, we bless the trick or treaters with generous amounts of candy (and a scripture strip), we go to church-sponsored festivals and 'trunk or treats,' and we avoid the heated debates between the "It's no big-deal" folk and the "You're giving your child to Satan" ones.