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Carborendum

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Posts posted by Carborendum

  1. Coffee as a Prescriptoin

    in Advice Board

    Posted

    I understand that caffeine can be applied by a medical expert for some ailments or conditions.  But to consider that coffee (and no other substitute) can "flush" the body of medication residue makes no sense.

    I get the impression that this is more about something else.  (I honestly hope I'm not violating a forum rule for posting the link).

  2. The Benedictine Option

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Carborendum

    2 hours ago, Vort said:

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/benedict-option-faq/

    Granted that the author and his audience probably would not even recognize the Restored Church as Christian, I nevertheless think there's a lot of good thinking and, probably, truth in that article. It seems to apply quite well to us as Latter-day Saints, though we have the huge advantage of being led by a prophet. I'd like to hear what other Latter-day Saints think about this.

    I took some time to read the whole article.  I'd like to explore in more detail the six tenets mentioned in the article and see what is going on with the Latter-day Saints to see if there is any parallel or comparison/contrast.

    1. Order. Our hierarchy and lay leadership chain of command and even ward level organizations are pretty organized.  Sure there are exceptions, especially where the wards/branches are unusually small or inexperienced.  But that happens with similar circumstances in any organization.  What I appreciate, though, is that there is a centralized system of beliefs.  Most faiths of our size do not have that.  

    Quote

    Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

     -- D&C 132:8
    (See also D&C 88:119; 109:8)

    2. Prayer and work. Prayer and scripture study are the hallmarks of active Latter-day Saints.  And WORK has been called "The Crowning Principle of the Gospel."  See Pres. Benson's statement on work and missionary work. Put Your Shoulder to the Wheel.

    3. Stability. Even through the death of the "founding prophet", we continued. And we continue to grow.  

    4. Community.  I know most of the time we truly try.  But things have changed since I was a kid.  I tend to believe it is modern life that has brought about such change.  Too many people on social media and working all the time don't know how to socialize or be a part of a larger community anymore.  That's not just us.  It seems to be everyone.  But one thing still happens that says we're part of a larger community.  Whenever I meet someone new that is LDS in some non-Church setting, we become fast friends.  That still happens.

    5. Hospitality.  Per the definition given, I think we're "fair-to-middlin'."  But we could do a lot better.  However, I'm going to make an excuse for not doing better.  Accept it or reject it, I don't care.  It's just "a feeling" for me right now.  There is a winnowing going on.  Regardless of how much someone does as far as the mechanics of the Church, the faith and conversion to Christ are much more important.  One would hope that such faith and conversion would lead one to do more work -- and I think it does to a decent degree. 

    What is sad is that I've noticed more and more people actually "doing their duty" but never really being converted.  I find this sad.  On the other hand, I've also seen people with the "All's well in Zion" attitude that prevents them from doing their duty even when they believe they are converted.  Perhaps both are being winnowed.

    6. Balance.  I like the description the article gives for this.  From an outsider's perspective, being led by a single figure is terrible.  But being led by a

    "True Prophet of God" (TM)

    is actually the best way to maintain balance.  Only the Lord can remind us when we've gone too far from center.  And per Amos 3:7, that is going to be through a living prophet.  Man alone will never be able to judge properly when we've gone too far one way or another.  Only a prophet can tell in what aspects it is ok to "change with the times" and what aspects must remain immovable.

  4. The Benedictine Option

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Vort said:

    JAG introduced me to this term in another thread. Here's a FAQ-style writeup about the so-called Benedictine option.

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/benedict-option-faq/

    Granted that the author and his audience probably would not even recognize the Restored Church as Christian, I nevertheless think there's a lot of good thinking and, probably, truth in that article. It seems to apply quite well to us as Latter-day Saints, though we have the huge advantage of being led by a prophet. I'd like to hear what other Latter-day Saints think about this.

    I think it dovetails nicely into the separating into tribes idea that I was talking about earlier.

  6. New Temple Predictions

    in Current Events

    Posted

    23 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

    About the China thing:

    Shanghai and Hong Kong are over 700 miles from each other.  Is Shanghai *really* merely a substitute for the closure of the Hong Kong temple?

    That's kinda where I was going with the "good coming from bad" comment.

  7. The trinity = the family

    in Christian Beliefs Board

    Posted

    On 2/9/2020 at 4:28 PM, e v e said:

    The trinity = the family. 

    Any thoughts? 

    If you're saying that the Trinity is a model for how the family ought to relate, then I think it's great.  If you're saying that the Trinity IS a family, meh...  Not feelin' it.  If you mean something else, I have no idea what you're getting at.

  9. A fun quarantine game I play with my wife

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Carborendum

    15 hours ago, Vort said:

    For the record: Just kidding. We're having a ball here with all our family.

    I was going to start a new thread.  But I decided it fits with this comment.

    I found the following item in the kitchen today.

    Solo_Cup.thumb.jpg.d2b81aea1e389280312b2bc0ebe79400.jpg

    Apparently it is a "watering can" made by my 8 yo "Bumble Bee." 

    I remarked,"Ok, I guess it would be useful if you dip it into the pond then drop the water into the garden, back and forth."  I noted a weakness in the design due to a hole placed at the level of the hollow handle.

    My wife informed me,"That's not a handle. It's the spout."  I burst out in laughter at a "spout" that holds more volume than the container itself.

    It is just this kind of stuff that I often miss out on when I'm working all the time.  I have the cutest kids.

  10. Not to put too fine a point on it, but CNN sucks

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    25 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

    If there is a sudden drop off right after conference or near our fast Friday, I may be more inclined to attribute it to President Nelson and the miracles of the Lord than to Trump. 

    Everything good always comes from the Lord.  But what tool was used?  How did the Lord do it?

    Our fasting and the blessing from Pres. Nelson will certainly be factors.  No question.  And if the drop off is stark and sudden with little to explain it, certainly even atheists must pause for at least a moment and consider "something unusual" happened.  But if it is a gradual drop off, then it is quite possible that the tools used were what we would consider mundane measures being taken.

    If the cases are increasing, but the deaths are decreasing due to medication and equipment, then certainly the humans that are the Lord's hands deserve some credit for the hard work they've put in.

  11. It's hard to stay non-partisan in a heavily polarized environment

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    21 hours ago, Scott said:

    This isn't true.  Many of the checks on Trump are from Twitter.  Trump tweets a lot more than Obama ever did.  That's why he has more checks.

    You don't read very carefully do you?  I didn't disagree with this -- except for the last statement that I crossed out.

    Since you've apparently bought the MSM line and drunk the Cool-Aid, I'll point out several MSM whoppers:

    CNN Claims that Trump told the public that Chloriquine was "approved by the FDA" for use against Corona.  They point out that he lied because it has NOT been approved. 

    Let's see what he actually said.

    Quote

    The FDA has approved the compassionate use for a significant number of patients.

    This was never meant to say it was a blanket approval for all situations.  This is a step towards total approval.  It was a limited approval for the purpose of gathering data on the effectiveness of the drug to see if it works. 

    Let's see what Trump actually said about the chemical several days before the fish tank couple.

    It started with a question from a reporter and Dr. Fauci gave the technical response.

    Quote

    The evidence that you're talking about is anecdotal evidence...

    We're trying to strike a balance between (making available) something that has a potential to have an effect...(and do a study under proper protocols)... so you can't really make any definitive statements on it at this time.

    Trump then gave his non-technical statement.

    Quote

    I'm probably more of a fan of it ... than anybody.  But we'll see what happens.  We all understand what the doctor said was 100% correct.  It's early.  We'll see.  We're gonna know soon.

    So, what exactly was irresponsible with saying that they're still looking at it, but there appears to be hope? That's the President's job -- to give hope.

    Out of 330 Million people that heard this, only two people were stupid enough to do something unauthorized because of it.  You don't think they could have gotten that idea without the Pres saying a word?  I guarantee you that they would.

    And I again ask what was iresponsible about what he said?

    I think you need to take a hard look at what the MSM has done here.  THEY WERE THE ONES WHO TOOK HIS WORDS OUT OF CONTEXT and plastered it all over every screen on the planet.  You try to scoot around the issue of blame?  I flat out say that the media killed that man, and potentially killed that woman.  THEY gave the soundbite without proper context to all the world.

    But you can go ahead and (not really) blame Trump so you can feel better.  But consider this:

    Chloroquine really does have the potential to help MANY people.  But the media has gotten such Trump hatred, that their rhetoric is causing people to want to RUN AWAY from chloroquine treatments, because it's more important for Trump to be wrong than it is to save lives.

  14. New Temple Predictions

    in Current Events

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Scott said:

    I would have never guessed Dubai...

    As far as the Shanghai temple, that was announced last year (at least on our Church website)...

    I never noticed the announcement on the Church Website.  Around what month was it posted?

    13 hours ago, Midwest LDS said:

    Agreed. Those really surprised me. Especially the one in Shanghai.

    Anyway, 

    It was interesting that the Dubai temple was at the request of their government (at least that is what Pres. Nelson seemed to say.  Did I mis-hear him?).

    But the Shanghai temple was a concession that the Chinese government made because of the condition of the Hong Kong temple (rennovation).  I think this is a good example of how bad things can lead to good things.  Anytime a door is closed, a window opens.

  17. Conditions that make agency possible

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    On 2/25/2020 at 9:59 AM, LiterateParakeet said:

    I'm open to the possibility.  I believe that Adam and Eve were real, and there was a Fall...beyond that, what is literal and what is symbolic isn't totally clear to me.  I am convinced the symbolism IS important for us though, as evidenced by the times its repeated. 

    I'm convinced that were supposed to read it on three levels.

    • Read it as if it were completely literal.
    • Read it as if it were completely figurative.
    • Read it as if it were the skeleton of a literal story with a lot of imagery, symbolism, and figurative storytelling to fill in that skeleton.

    With each of these reads, we get different information and knowledge which I think is all true on some level.  These are like looking through only one eye.  It appears to be a compete picture.  But it isn't. 

    It is then important to see it from a mixture of all three reads.  Like our eyes each see a slightly different picture, using both eyes allows us to see an image with additional benefits such as depth perception and its subsequent effects.

  18. The Restoration Proclamation, April 2020

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Carborendum

    2 hours ago, TheTanakas said:

    What does it mean God the Father has given us the divine birth?

    Emmanuel explained it.  Let me re-format it for you.

    Quote

    God the Father has given us:

    • the divine birth,
    • the incomparable life,
    • and the infinite atoning sacrifice
    • of His Beloved Son, Jesus Christ

    Does that help?

    BTW, I've looked over some of your past threads.  It is considered good manners to come back and give a "Thank you" reaction or respond with a thank you or short post or something just to let those who responded know that you got it and it was helpful or if you're still puzzled.

    Or else, why bother answering you?

  20. I'm so excited!

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Carborendum

    28 minutes ago, Vort said:

    14 years, perhaps?

    As a matter of trivia, I know a certain father-in-law of mine who has studied interesting events that have occurred at regular intervals if counted from 1BC.  Long story short, he believes that the "real" birth year of the Savior is 1BC on our current calendar.  As I understood it, this is a common school of thought.

  21. April 2020 General Conference Discussion Thread

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    If I may wax rhapsodic for a moment:

    It was quite poignant to hear the coordinated hymn at the end.  Y'all know it felt cool for me to hear it in Korean.

    I was quite struck by the Spirit as we heard all the nations change to English at the end.  It dawned on me that the message was that we are fulfilling Joseph Smith's prophecy of the Standard of Truth.  And we are coming together to be unified in the faith.  We are all one people.

    Quote

    ...he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

     -- 2 Ne 26:33

    As the end of the Book of Mormon describes the separation of people into tribes, we see that happening today.  The partisanship in the US is only a small part of what is going on in the world.  The whole world is separating and isolating.  The cancel culture is only a symptom.  But the Church IS OUR TRIBE.  And instead of separating, we are coming together from all over the world.

    I realize that "We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet" is usually aimed at our current prophet ("to guide us in these latter days").  But this particular expression seemed to me as an homage to ALL modern prophets, and particularly to the Prophet of the Restoration.  Did anyone else feel that?

  22. Deconstructing a Testimony

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    On 3/30/2020 at 12:01 PM, priesthoodpower said:

    You are stuck in time and blinded by your own knowledge of the gospel. You try too hard to speak for God 

    Unlike yourself.

    On 3/24/2020 at 5:39 PM, priesthoodpower said:

    "This is a church of progression, you cant sit and be stagnant". This type of thinking is a big part of what pushes lazy or prideful members away whereas these same people would have remained in the church content with the pace that they feel comfortable with.

    Meaning... not moving at all?  Nothing in the statement you quoted demands any specific pace except that it is moving forward.  The only alternatives are being stagnant (no progress) or moving backwards.  So, what is it that you're disagreeing with because I don't see anything in the quote that you disagree with.  Could it be that this person said much more than the quote you gave?  If so, share it.  But I get the feeling that the problem was not with what he said, but how you took what he said.

    On 3/24/2020 at 5:39 PM, priesthoodpower said:

    The tone now from our apostles are "your best is good enough". No doctrine changed but the way we think has, how hard was that?

    This has ALWAYS been the doctrine and always will be the doctrine.  We can only be saved through the Atonement.  Our works never have been enough and never will be enough.

    On 3/24/2020 at 5:39 PM, priesthoodpower said:

    Please remember that church is not Christ. Christ is not a christian, he is THE Christ.

    We are...

    christians that go to church

    mormons that go to church

    catholics that go to mass

    buddhists that go to the temple...etc

    Home centered gospel is taking us in a better direction..."people following Christ", and this is something that EVERYONE can do, not just active mormons.

    You're talking about Universalism.  Are you actually LDS?  If so, explain your interpretation of:

    Quote

    And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually.

     -- D&C 1:30

    If all churches / faiths are equal, what does this verse say to you?

    On 3/25/2020 at 7:16 PM, priesthoodpower said:

    It'll take a generation or two for this old fashion religious elitist way of thinking to disappear.

    I certainly hope not.  It won't die with my children.  And it won't die with their children.  Most people who think like you have few or no children.  Who do you think will win?

    On 3/25/2020 at 7:16 PM, priesthoodpower said:

    Always got the answers but dont care about solutions. 

    I think you misunderstand how the gospel of Christ works, and what the guidance of gospel principles does for us as individuals and families.  This last speech before Pres. Nelson covered it.

    In Paraguay, the Seventy asked all the Stake Presidents something to the effect of (they haven't put up the written text yet)

    Quote

    How many of the members of your stakes who are faithful tithe payers, hold family home evening regularly, make time to study scriptures every day and pray as families and individuals, do their home teaching, etc... How many of them have problems that they themselves cannot solve on their own?

    None of them.

    Living the gospel doesn't mean that we never have any problems. It means that we will have the means to work through them with the Lord's help.

    How often have you studied the Book of Mormon in the past year?  How often do you pray individually and as a family?  When was the last time you paid your tithing? Attended the temple?  Made a ministering visit?  Held family home evening?

    In short, when was the last time you did all the "little things" that we all know we're supposed to do?

    On 3/29/2020 at 7:11 PM, priesthoodpower said:

    ...in LDS culture, when you dont attend "church" you are left out of Gods plan (this is nonsense to me and anyone else who believes in a loving God). We cant create thousands of different ward types to cater to the thousands of different kinds of people and that is why we are seeing the dissolving of our sunday services.

    Again, something was said in General Conference this last session that addressed all this.  I hope you listened to it.

    On 3/29/2020 at 7:11 PM, priesthoodpower said:

    The answer to our problems is the internet, social media, virtualization and automation. This is how we make a gospel that is comfortable to all with out changing doctrine. 

    My understanding is that the Gospel was never supposed to be "comfortable" in the sense you appear to be describing. 

    Quote

    A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has the power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation.

     -- Joseph Smith

    What have you recently sacrificed or offered to the Lord in terms of your time, talents, means, or anything that the Lord has blessed you with?

    On 3/29/2020 at 7:11 PM, priesthoodpower said:

    This corona virus is pushing this world in a direction we never could've imagined, I believe its part of Gods plan.

    On this we agree.  We are simply looking at different portions of the world.  Are you the branch leaning towards the world or towards the roots of the Tree of Life?  One day we all will make a decision about whether our connection to the tree is stronger than the flaxen chords connecting us to the world, or if the flaxen chords are stronger than our connection to the roots.

  24. Sacrament at home Q

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Carborendum

    On 3/21/2020 at 8:39 PM, Fether said:

    Since church was canceled, we started meeting with a few friends from another ward to do Sunday school together. Last week both we and them were given permission to do sacrament at home.

    Would it be appropriate to do the sacrament together prior to our Sunday school lesson even though we are in separate wards?

    Our ward and stake has been talking about it as if it is a given.  There was no "special permission" because it was a no-duh kinda thing. (Meeting with other families).  But the maximum of 10 people kinda limits it for us.