Misshalfway

I'm gonna one up this.... Marriage counseling is cool. But in addition, he needs his own therapist and he could use a really good men's group. And you need your own counselor too. The couples therapy may not be effective until he works through some of his stuff.

Well, he's certainly got thought distortions out the whazzoo! Sounds to me like halmarks of addictive problems. He's objectifying women. He's trying to objectify you. And he is convinced that his happiness lies on the other side of realizing his fantasy. And he prolly doesn't think about it when he's having sex with you cause he's too focused on getting an orgasm. Whatever his internal issues are, its clear he is pleasure seeking everywhere! Something isn't right in his "self" department. The fact that he is having some guilt and that he senses his imbalance is prolly a sign that there's a true man in there somewhere. I think you both need therapy.....badly. If he won't go to therapy, then my next question is why is he still living in the house?

I'd love to be involved. I don't have a preference on format. I'd just follow your lead.

Is the victim "obligated" to repair the marriage? This is a hard one to answer because each situation is so different. I will say that in LDS circles there are times that I really think we expect too much on the victimized partner. I'm not sure exactly why. I'd like to see marriages stay together, but pressuring or guilting one party into forgiveness or into trusting when they shouldn't or before they are ready isn't right. I wish there was a lot more focus on pushing efforts of restitution on the offending party. God does command us to forgive. But he doesn't specify when we should do it, and it isn't required that we stay in the marriage in order to do it.

Don't feel dumb. My brain does stuff like that all the time. Why do you think they call me "misshalfway"? LOL. I love the scripture D&C 138:50..."For the dead had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage."

I never really thought about the "group" in the pre-earth life as being divided into thirds. We were taught that 1/3 part rebelled and lost their first estate, but in my mind this refers to two parts. A bigger part and a smaller part. Plus, I've always been turned off by discussions concerning 'classes' of the righteous based upon lineage. I know lots of people have connected some dots and maybe there is some truth to the fact that our life here was somewhat determined by the life there, but most of the time I don't think any of it matters.

I need to why young men where pants that hang below their bums. I need to know why some women wear short, transparent dresses with poorly fitted underpants underneath to the REAL SL games. And I need to know why getting a smaller purse doesn't prevent me from losing my cell phone in the abyss.

I just read them. I don't see anything about being "just". Are you referring to question 9 "Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow man?"

All of the answers given in the temple rec interview, are based on our own perceptions and conclusions. I don't see how this one question is different than the others. If a person wants to misrepresent themselves, they certainly can. And a person can split hairs over technicalities if they want too. The interview isn't a perfect science and doesn't need to be in order to be effective tool.

This makes me want to be friends with your wife! She sounds awesome.

We get determined to change our desires. We get tough and we refuse to get distracted. We get committed to solving our problems and we get creative about doing it. Our eye gets single.....if you know what I mean. And we do it one step at a time. A person "like you"? What does that even mean? Like you are so different from the rest of us....... You do it the same way the rest of us do. By a simple decision to obey.....no matter what you feel like in the moment. You call on others if you need them... like counseling with a bishop....but you don't wait for others to do your work for you or for a magic feeling to help to get there easily. You get empowered. You own your agency. And you take control of the trajectory of your spiritual life. You already know the answer to this, don't you? If you have a testimony, as you say you do, you already know that you have to do the seeking before you can enjoy the finding. Well, talk about what causes you so much fear. Are you afraid of God? Do you imagine He judges you the same way you judge you? Are you afraid God might require something of you and you might actually have to prove yourself? I think it could be very empowering for you if you got honest about what is really going on inside your fears. If you do that, then you can challenge the validity of them. Fear is just a mirage. When we walk directly into it, we learn that it isn't as daunting as we imagined it to be. Stop believing you can't.

When I get warnings from the holy ghost, it usually comes as specific direction such as "don't go that way" or "break up with that person" or "go down another street". It's a little frustrating because there usually isn't an explanation sent with it. But at least I know what it is and where it comes from. And I can have faith in that. I don't know if anyone else's experience is like mine, but I don't think God sends nebulous warnings like "you are in danger! beware!" without some sort of direction. When I get worried like this, I'm pretty sure I'm reacting to anxiety. When the Lord directs there is peace and surety that cuts through my self producing anxiety. That doesn't mean I don't have "bad feelings" about places or people or situations. It just means that when the spirit directs, I can experience a peace that cuts through my fear....helping me to differentiate. One thing I have learned about anxiety and worry is that it comes from a very powerless place inside me. I think the antidote to that is faith and trust in myself. I trust my gut. I trust that I'll make good decisions for myself. I trust God will direct if there is a need. I have faith that if something "bad" does happen, I'll be able to handle it. This helps me fear and worry less. What is it that hymn says? "and should we die, before our journey's through? All is well, all is well.

I don't know about "unrighteous dominion". "Misguided dominion" maybe....

What I love is that you are catching this at such a young age. And I know it's scary to talk about these things with other people....especially the bishop. I remember being afraid to talk to the bishop about my own issues when I was younger. I think a lot of people feel like that. What I have learned is that talking to the bishop is never as scary as I think it will be. In general, I leave feeling so much better about things and certainly more hope. Also, having issues with porn/mb is so common for young men (and some young women too.) This isn't something to be afraid of or ashamed about. It just means you are a little stuck. So, my hope is that you'll talk to someone about it. I don't know what kind of parents you have or if the relationship is a safe one, but in general I might advise starting there. And then certainly talking to your bishop can help. The church has such a great way to help with these problems. Most people I know who struggle with this problem use a combination of church support and therapeutic support. They might attend a church 12 step group, for example, or perhaps get involved with a therapist or a SA recovery program such as CANDEO or LIFESTAR or INNERGOLD. All have a slightly different approach, but all report good success in helping people. Best wishes. So impressed that you are seeking help early.

I don't know if adding another voice to the discussion will be helpful or not. But I wanted to address the concerns you had about coming from a church that sought to control emotions, behaviors, minds, etc etc. (forgive me. I can't remember where I read the quote.) One of the things I appreciate the most about LDS doctrine and church culture is the concept of Agency. Other groups might use the term "free will". In general, we are talking about a similar concept. LDS doctrine can be very demanding. It requires it's members to live higher laws concerning the what they put in their bodies (diet, substance), how they govern their sexual lives (inside and outside of relationships), what they do with their money (tithes and offerings), and even how they manage their weekly schedule (church service, meetings, assignments). The combination of doctrine, ordinances, and commitments, COULD make someone feel that they were being dictated to, controlled, or micromanaged. But this is NOT what the LDS way is about in the least. You see, Agency fixes all that. We are invited to live a higher law.....like giving up alchohol and coffee for example. And in return, we are promised blessings such as more spiritual knowledge from Heavenly Father and a healthier body. We pay tithing, and the Lord says "prove me now herewith if I will not pour out a blessing." Instead of being a coersive governing force, the church simply invites people to try living a disciplined, clean way of life where we practice sacrifice, which is to give up something in exchange for something better. In my experience, there is great spiritual growth in such a disciplined way of living. It has opened up lots of perspectives and capacities inside my character and mind that wouldn't have otherwise been developed. I hope I've made my point clearly. On these forum's I'm not always sure. But I hope to emphasize the difference between being "controlled" and using the discipline of obedience/sacrifice in "learning to control oneself." For those who govern with the need to control others, there is no reward or glory other than gathering up some meager human power for a short time. In the LDS paradigm, we don't conceptualize a God, or an earthly leadership, who needs control to govern a lot of people because gaining and protecting power isn't the goal. Rather, the glory of God and the joy of his followers come from the from the development of the individual!! This is why we prize gaining knowledge, even spiritual knowledge from the Holy Spirit, above following because of some well worded sermon or from someone who "proved" it was right. If one is compelled by self and the workings of the holy spirit inside that person, then there is not controlling or being controlled. He/she offers devotion out of their own free will and choice.

My nieces and a nephews are on the autism spectrum. The early years are really hard. Could thinking out of the box help? Is there a way to sit next to trusted friends....like an older couple that love kids or a family with older teen aged kids? I know my kids are so good with their cuzzins. Are there any friends like that you'd feel comfortable involving that could sit with some while you go out or who could take your son to give you a break to hear the speakers?

I packed a toilet seat. I don't care where I have to go, but this bottom is going to be comfortable doing it.

I am very rarely offended by any work that comes from a different religious or non religious paradigm. Especially when the work is fiction. I'm not offended in the least that the author was an atheist or that his beliefs filtered into the story, even if he did want to "stick it to the man" a little. In fact, the question never crossed my mind. A neighbor the other day said he didn't like the Hunger Games because it never referenced God. I didn't understand that view. I didn't read the book to find God in it. I read it because I wanted to experience the story just as it was.

One thought on this... I'm not sure it's the sexlessness that is the problem. I think it's a symptom of the problem. The problem is disconnection. Couples need to realize that it is quality emotional intercourse that leads to quality sexual intercourse. (Notice I am not saying communication. I'm talking about something broader than that.) One other observation..... Sexlessness is not always the manifestation of sustained porn use. Many engage in sex with their wives regularly. Many "use" their wives in various degrees such as getting a fix or getting comfort. And then there are others who see to use their wives and the marital relationship to fulfill their sexual fantasies. This can be a particularly destructive manifestation. My experience with this is that what you illustrate here happens almost routinely. She confronts, he dodges or blame shifts. I think these scenarios demand a lot of compassion. It's not like porn addiction (not necessarily porn use) is obvious. You can't do a urine test. So when dude is in the bishopric or looking like super great guy, and she confronts with no evidence or shaking evidence, and then he lies, what is left but self doubt? Anyone would self doubt in that circumstance.

Yeah. I think you are right about that Ben. I think I remember my bishop telling me once he couldn't recommend divorce, but that he could recommend that people act to keep themselves safe. I want to check the handbook for wording just to see if there is any wiggle room in that mandate.

I think with the LDS church its more complicated because we have the temple sealing to deal with. As you probably know, this means that when people marry in the temple they choose to stay with their partner forever. When one has made these convenants with another person and with God, it's not easy to come to terms with breaking them. And it's particularly shocking to LDS folks when someone breaks their covenants with infidelity because we expect high things from each other. When infidelity happens (or other marital disruptions), people tend to labor agonizingly over the decision to divorce because it has so many implications in both the earthly and eternal situations. And then there is the question of the sealing itself. A person can get a divorce but remain sealed to their first spouse. They must get a letter from the church releasing them from the sealing before they can be sealed to another person. I do want to say that I think how it person is counseled also comes from the bias/experience of the priesthood leader. Some have bias against divorce and will push for reconciliation. Others who are healthier and more wise, IMO, offer balanced counsel by helping the person make decisions out of safety and best interest and agency. I know of one case where I felt the stake president acted poorly. A man had retained a secret affair for many years. The wife was finding it very difficult to forgive. The stake president withheld her temple recommend until she agreed to reconcile. His logic was that the inability to forgive quickly was an equal sin to infidelity. She was being told she was the cause of the breech in the marriage. IMO, this was a terrible position to take and I think the SP was in the wrong. I would have felt better had he helped the husband focus on making restitution for all the years of pain. I think that would have helped promote forgiveness more than such a painful ultimatum.

All parents have bad days. I'm glad we're not filming and scrutinizing every mistake parents make.

Well, if you don't want to support companies who exploit women and sexualize children, then you'd better ban everything associated with movies and hollywood. Cause pretty much everyone is doing it....to the girls AND the boys. Except that there is nothing of the sort in the Lion King OR in Brave. Just two cute little movies that both have good moral endings.

Well, being confused about religion is ok. I'm just not sure you've really made a decision for yourself. When you say that you "don't know if it's a social thing or an attention thing", well, that sounds to me like maybe you do know but aren't letting yourself fully own it. Having missionaries come and pay attention to you can be a nurturing thing. If that is what you want/need, then your visits aren't about religion and you are using them. Religious discussion is perhaps the currency by which you get your needs met. You aren't the first to fall in love with the missionaries and the attention. I guess I'm wondering how serious you are about finding answers to religious questions. If you are, you don't need the missionaries. You can attend church, study, and make a decision independent of them. There is not "nail in the coffin" here.

Well....let's just set the record straight. Men gossip as much as women do. That was one of the first lessons I learned on my mission. Lol. And women use porn. Perhaps the numbers aren't as high, but the numbers are growing, alarmingly so. (And it's happening with younger populations which is alarming too.) Women act out sexually probably as much as men but they act out differently....even if they are using online methods. For example, they would visit chat rooms or engage in flirtatious sexual conversations rather than go to the visual source first. Guys want the orgasm, women want the connection. I'm not sure what to say about the comparison of porn use to having an affair. From all the research I've done on porn problems/sexual acting out, there is quite a large range of behaviors and lots of in between stuff that could very well be considered "cheating" even if it didn't involve intercourse with another person. So, I really think each case is different and I hope bishop's and stake presidents view it that way. Maybe you can weigh in on this scenario. Let's say the husband uses porn multiple times a week for a period of 15 yrs while neglecting his wife emotionally and sexually. Let's add some manipulations, deception, and resentment in there just for fun. Now, let's say the wife hits a breaking point and sleeps with a coworker because she finally felt wanted and nurtured. Who is more at fault here? But if you ask the husband, he'd tell you that the wife's sin was far worse. If you ask the wife, her indulgence was once compared to years of similar but safer indulgence. And if it wasn't for the porn using husband, she'd probably never have done it.