New Testament Questions - Devils Cast Out

[Tamrajh]

I've recently begun reading the New Testament for the first time and although I'm finding it quite interesting, I'm also confused by something. There are numerous references to Christ casting out evil spirits from people and even one where the evil spirits took over a herd or gathering of swine (pigs) who then went and drowned themselves.

I have numerous questions about this.

I thought we were protected from this type of thing happening because of the enmity between Satan and us so the only way this could happen was if we invited Satan into our bodies. Have I missed something here?

If it happened so often back then, can't it still be happening now? We dismiss the thought of possessions now and think people are just "crazy" but what if it really is a possession just the same as it was when Jesus walked the earth. Shouldn't there be something done the same as Christ did when he was here to help these people in a religious sense?

Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me. Even though I'm finding the New Testament very interesting, I'm really getting hung up on this possession part because it's very different from how we view things now.

[MorningStar]

Very interesting question! I've wondered the same thing - which problems today could actually be possession? Not that I have a good answer for you, but I'm looking forward to reading what other people have to say.

[prisonchaplain]

Christians cannot be demon possessed since we are filled with the Holy spirit. However, those who are not so protected might invite such into their lives through participation in witchcraft, seances, fortune telling, ouija boards, etc.

[Tamrajh]

But even Christians who have turned their backs on their religion and dabbled in seances, ouiji boards, and the like could be possessed?

Why don't we hear of the evil spirits being forced out and exorcisms like Christ did?

[FunkyTown]

I have heard of exorcisms taking place. Not the head spinning, "Send me a younr priest and an old priest!" one, but yes. I have heard of them. Ask at church. I bet some Elders have a story or two.

[BenRaines]

Possession is something that must be allowed by humans. It may be due to the manner that we live our life. Continual sin, etc. I believe PC's definition of Christian is someone who truly lives their belief and not someone who just professes one.

You may recall as you read of the Lord casting the demons out of the man possessed that the demon spirits communicated with the Lord, they recognized him for who he was and what was about to happen. They requested, in order to possess a body, to be cast in to swine, the most unclean animal in the Hebrew faith and then the swine when possessed were made mad and ran in to the sea to drown themselves.

What we can learn from this is that spirits can possess bodies if allowed and that spirits will do anything to have a body.

Ben Raines

[Tamrajh]

So do you think that curious kids, when they're playing around and don't think it's real, could invite Satan into their bodies or is there some kind of protection over them because they're too young and innocent to be able to do stuff like that.

I remember when I was younger I attended a sleep over and we turned around the picture of Christ and then invited Satan to come let us know if he was real (because we thought all this religion stuff was a bunch of crap). I've often wondered about that and, knowing we couldn't have been the only girls to have done that, I wonder what happens when kids delve into it even more deeply by playing with ouiji boards or doing some satanic worship.

[Tamrajh]

Oh, and yes, he did visit us.

[BenRaines]

I believe it is only after a pattern of unrighteous living. Always remember that we, as human beings, have power of Satan and his minions. It is us who allows them to enter and or to stay. Once under their power it is hard, but not impossible, to turn it around.

Ben Raines

[MorningStar]

Oh, and yes, he did visit us.

AAAAAAGH!!!! That's scary.

[WANDERER]

I find it concerning when you get media coverage of people who have died in situations involving casting out type efforts....of children...for minor misbehaviours.

In the same vein I'm wary of people who attribute demonic possession to the behaviour of others. That can be used in a very wrong way.

In my opinion, way scarier.

While it can and does happen I think PC and Ben and Funkytown have the right of it. I don't think fear and panic is the appropriate response for a Christian...who shouldn't be doing the sorts of things that would invite such things.

Edited August 11, 2008 by WANDERER

[guitarwizard]

Good time to share a friends mission story:

Two zone leaders (i think) got a call late at night and were told they needed to come to a members house quick. They got there and found that a boy was "possessed." The boy came out and started yelling the Elders real names, which they hadn't told anyone. They were freaked out. Then the boy started to tear at their clothes and actually ripped off one of the elders sleeves. They began to pray and as soon as they closed the prayer, the boy looked up and said "hey elders, what are you guys doing here"

oooooooo freaky.

[HiJolly]

I've recently begun reading the New Testament for the first time and although I'm finding it quite interesting, I'm also confused by something. There are numerous references to Christ casting out evil spirits from people and even one where the evil spirits took over a herd or gathering of swine (pigs) who then went and drowned themselves.

I have numerous questions about this.

I thought we were protected from this type of thing happening because of the enmity between Satan and us so the only way this could happen was if we invited Satan into our bodies. Have I missed something here?

I think that's right, though many (most) times, we inadverdently invite Satan or his followers by stupid choices, not by explicit invitation. I think spirits can enter animals without invitation. Makes sense to me.

If it happened so often back then, can't it still be happening now? We dismiss the thought of possessions now and think people are just "crazy" but what if it really is a possession just the same as it was when Jesus walked the earth. Shouldn't there be something done the same as Christ did when he was here to help these people in a religious sense?

Don't laugh, but there is a lot of mental illness in my family. We're all a bit paranoid about it

If we took a schizophrenic back 2000 years, they would certainly be declared as 'possessed'. But we do our scientific analysis and say there is a chemical imbalance in the brain that is causing it. Both could be true, but if indeed the evil spirit is causing the imbalance, we'll never know it via scientific inquiry, because that methodology does not allow for spiritual (ie, non-measurable or non-impirical) influences.

Could the priesthood 'heal' a possessed/schizophrenic? Yes, I think so -- though we should remember that some come out only by prayer and fasting. Our faith would be surely tried were we to attempt such a thing. I would not attempt unless God (or a loved one) insisted on it. And only God would be able to assure success, IMO.

Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me. Even though I'm finding the New Testament very interesting, I'm really getting hung up on this possession part because it's very different from how we view things now.

Yep - a definite disconnect.

HiJolly

Edited August 13, 2008 by HiJolly
how DO you spell 'assure'?

[Heavenguard]

There are definitely still modern day possessions, I've heard various stories of exorcisms by Pastors, Reverends and Deacons I know (First hand accounts). I remember hearing the testimony of the youngest member to be baptised in my church: he heard his mother cry out in the basement, and when he went down to see what was the matter, he found his mother laying unconscious on the floor and a spirit hovering over her. He cried out "Jesus, save us!" and the spirit left the house. (Not a possession story exactly, but still compelling.)

But yes, many things considered illness now would have been thought to be possession then, and so I think people in general are disarmed about possession, thinking it all to have been misunderstanding by people in past times. Definitely it takes down the number of "possessions" down quite a bit, as we can now discern that many of them are in fact mental illnesses. But we should never discount the real possessions.

[Tamrajh]

It's makes for an interesting question then, doesn't it. Am I really bi-polar, or am I possessed?

Of course, since the medication is helping me and I am behaving in a "normal" manner (meaning I am not hallucinating and thinking violent thoughts anymore), I believe I am bi-polar and not possessed.

But what of schizophrenia? Might that honestly be possession? I've never been around anyone with that condition, so I am merely guessing what it might be like based on some reading and what I've heard. I hope no one finds my question offensive, I mean no disrespect.

[Traveler]

I personally believe that many greatly misunderstand influences of spirits. I would like to point out the following:

. All temptation is an effort by an unclean spirits to gain influence and advantage over living mortal souls.

. Everyone is open and available to temptation (influence) by unclean spirits. Yes even Christians. I believe to think one is exempt is flawed – even Jesus was tempted. True he did not succumb but he was tempted. If a Christian can say they are no longer influenced (caught) by temptation, I would like to know much more about their faith. I would find a way to come visit them where ever they are in the world and observe this for myself with great hope of forever putting temptation behind me. Often I express to my friends that I am one of the strongest believers I know – that I can resist anything but temptation.

. Even small children can be influenced by unclean spirits. One child from which Jesus cast an evil spirit was said to have had the influence since infancy (birth).

. Possession is not a term used in scripture – it is a false doctrine that is a red hearing to create misunderstanding. For example, no one is ever possessed by the Holy Spirit, we say they are “filled” or influenced. Likewise we should understand that we can be filled or influenced by unclean spirits. I personally doubt that any “unclean” act has ever been committed by any man but that the act was preceded by a temptation (attempt to influence) from an unclean spirit. BTW – I do not know of any talk at general conference that used the term possessed by evil spirits.

. As important as it is to recognize and remove (cast out) unclean spirits, we know from scripture that it is not a permeate solution. It is quite important to seek out and associate ourselves with the influences of clean, holy and divine spirits. This is the purpose of reading scripture, keeping a Sabbath and regular prayer.

. We have been warned about allowing unclean fluencies of immorality, pride, selfish wealth, anger, contention, and evil speaking of the L-rd’s anointed. There are others – I just named a few.

We open our thought to either unclean spirits or clean spirits – there are no other options that I know of. I also believe that we can carry with us and through us “infections” of unclean spirits that reach our friends and family (including children) through us.

The Traveler

[tree]

whOriginally Posted by Tamrajh

Oh, and yes, he did visit us.at did he do when he visited ? my goodness how did you ever get rid of him? EEK!

[tree]

in 1996, my 7 yr old son and his dad and i had just gotten back from church, when i went to my bedroom to change, i reach in for the light switch but couldn't find it, and i thought i saw something run,and as it ran i could feel the pitter-patter of its little feet and i auto-matically thought it was a rat but then it jumped up toward my window which was open but had a screen on it and just vanished out of thin air! so i ran into the living room and said there was some one in the bedroom ( i didn't say exactly what i saw because i didn't want them to think i was nuts !) so my ex-husband ran in there with a knife he had begun using to butterfly some shrimp with and searched the whole house but found nothing. they laughed at me and said that i was seeing things so i just agreed, but suddenly it got cold as ice, we couldn't hardly breath it was so cold, smoke coming from our breath in the middle of August with no A/C in the house, then my son and his dad saw a mass of swirling lights and then i began reading the bible don't ask me what book or scripture cause i don't remember but my ex said it was a demon ( i still don't know what it was )so my 7 yr old rebuked it in the name of JESUS CHRIST and it left out my front screen door. never had any more problem but to be truthful we didn't stay there very much longer. come to find out the owners of the house grew up in that house and used to see and experience things on a regular basis so they moved out and started renting the thing out knowing this. boy i was really upset when i found out. now some lady owns the house and i am so tempted to ask her if anything has ever happened to her? but i am to chicken plus if nothing has happened i don't want to freight en her. if they hadn't witnessed that i would have thought i was going nuts, kinda spooky but true!

[dazed-and-confused]

tam....i'm sorry...but i find it odd that you are only now reading the new testament...have read the old testament?....sorry.....but ok..your question....i agree with prisonchaplain....if you have the spirit...dont sweat it....and i happen to believe that there are angels to protect children that "investigate".....afterall....you said he (lower case) did visit you at the sleepover....but here you are...where are you...lol

[mnn727]

I personally think that a lot of the "casting out of devils" in the NT was actually curing mental illness. To someone in 30 A.D. a lot of what we know as mental illnesses today would seem like demon possesion. Think of someone with Turets syndrome -- that even sounds like demon possesion to me.

This of course upsets those that claim inerrancy for the Bible - thankfully we don't believe the Bible is inerrant. It was written by men using their worldviews - things that could not be explained were magic or demons or supernatural.

Imagine what they would think of a switch on a wall that when you flip it, it creates light in the room -- magic!! They were not stupid, just didn't have the scientific background modern people do

[mnn727]

tam....i'm sorry...but i find it odd that you are only now reading the new testament

Not that odd, I read it cover to cover years ago but my wife never had, we are reading it this summer and are up to 1st Corinthians now. Studying parts of it - which we have done, is much different than reading cover to cover.

[dazed-and-confused]

yes..it is very different...you're right...

[tree]

I've read both, but it left me with more questions than answers until i was introduced to the book of Mormon when i was 34yrs old.praise HEAVENLY FATHER and Joseph Smith for that! now i have peace of mind and know which path to take. before when i was a pentecostal , some how i knew that there was more i needed to know and do. well that some how was the HOLY SPIRIT telling me.

[Hemidakota]

I've recently begun reading the New Testament for the first time and although I'm finding it quite interesting, I'm also confused by something. There are numerous references to Christ casting out evil spirits from people and even one where the evil spirits took over a herd or gathering of swine (pigs) who then went and drowned themselves.

I have numerous questions about this.

I thought we were protected from this type of thing happening because of the enmity between Satan and us so the only way this could happen was if we invited Satan into our bodies. Have I missed something here?

If it happened so often back then, can't it still be happening now? We dismiss the thought of possessions now and think people are just "crazy" but what if it really is a possession just the same as it was when Jesus walked the earth. Shouldn't there be something done the same as Christ did when he was here to help these people in a religious sense?

Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me. Even though I'm finding the New Testament very interesting, I'm really getting hung up on this possession part because it's very different from how we view things now.

Are you referring to these references?

Luke 11 - ...not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. 5 And he said unto them, Which of you ... offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your ... to them that ask him? 14 P And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came...

Mark 9 - ...that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved ... thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not. 19 He answereth him ... straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; ...

Mark 15 - ...the King of the Jews? 13 And they cried out again, Crucify him. 14 Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more ... put his own clothes on him, and led him out to crucify him. 21 And they compel one...

Matthew 27 - ...crucified. 23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more ... away to crucify him. 32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name ... crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which

Among the miracles Jesus performed on this Galilean tour was the casting out of a devil from a man who was blind and dumb. He also healed the man of his blindness and his inability to speak. (Matthew 12:22.) This great miracle amazed the people of the area and convinced them of Jesus' Messiahship. When word reached Jerusalem, however, the Pharisees came from Jerusalem to explain away the miracle. "Unless this and like miracles are explained away," Elder Bruce R. McConkie wrote, "the priestcrafts of the priests will be replaced by a new order; the scribes and Pharisees must disabuse the public mind or lose their positions of power and influence over the people."

The miracle had been observed; it was an established incident. The Pharisees could not deny the miracle; therefore they had to find another explanation. They chose to attribute it to Satan. Little did they realize that this choice would draw from the Savior the great doctrine of the condemnation that comes upon those who choose to follow Satan, the one whom they were following in making such an accusation. Before presenting this doctrine, Jesus pointed out the absurdity of their accusation.

We have to allow the devils in through the door in order to possessed.

[Flyonthewall]

Christians cannot be demon possessed since we are filled with the Holy spirit. However, those who are not so protected might invite such into their lives through participation in witchcraft, seances, fortune telling, ouija boards, etc.

Though I agree with this in general, "Christians" can do things to drive the Holy Spirit away. If a Christian participates in a seance, how long will the Holy Spirit stay with them?

I believe the Holy Spirit will warn them, and if they ignore the warning, the Holy Spirit will wait at the door, so to speak, and come back when they are ready to listen.