Do you HAVE to give up coffee or can you choose it away?

[NightShift]

I have been addicted to.

Cigarettes, Cigarillos, pipe, chewing tobacco, snuff, And now I take snus (a swedish tobacco you put under your lips).

I can live without nicotine and alcohol, but I will have a hard time giving up coffee, I drink around 12 cups a day.

Do you HAVE to stop drinking coffee or is that a choice? You wont go to Hell if you do, right?

[Wingnut]

Technically, everything is a choice. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head at the time of baptism. But coffee is against the Word of Wisdom.

[BenRaines]

So when asked are you willing to live the Word of Wisdom and do you live it then you would answer "No I do not and I can't" and that would keep you from being baptized.

Snus would be a no also.

Ben Raines

[richlittell]

Before coming into the church, I smoked, chewed, dipped and drank one pot (minimum) of coffee every day.

First, you will NOT go to hell. The Word of Wisdom is primarily a health code, although now it is a condition for entering the Temple, and I can't remember, but I'm sure Ben is right that you probably can't get baptized. The Lord has found this a good measure of one's commitment to his gospel, and if one can't conquer this before Baptism, then one would probably soon begin to have much larger issues with the gospel later (or sooner rather than later). The Lord loves all his children, but doesn't want to burden anyone with living standards and principles for which they are not ready. It's like not forcing a child to ride a bike when they are too young and not ready or they could get seriously hurt.

If you are not interested in joining the LDS church, by all means, keep your coffee habit, that is your choice--I would hope you give up the tobacco because there is nothing but universal agreement that tobacco is bad for the body. Coffee, from a non-LDS perspective, has research that makes claims to both its benefits and detriments that are not yet in agreement. So it would be hard for an LDS to convince a non-LDS to quit the habit for health reasons, so I never even try. Of course, we LDS would say God knows best, but that is a spiritual argument based on faith and modern revelation.

[NightShift]

So I have to give it up? Cause I have a strong and good feeling that I should join the LDS. Much stronger than the desire of coffee.

[KrazyKay]

IMHO, I think you should give up the coffee. If it is hard because of the caffeine addiction - perhaps you can go to drinking coke or pepsi for awhile then slowly wean yourself off the caffeinated sodas.

Before my husband and his family joined the church, they drank coffee and ice tea all the time, but stopped when they joined. But my husband went to drinking coke heavily and still drinks diet coke a lot. We are working on weaning him off slowly - 8 years ago he draink 2 liters, and sometimes 3 liters in one sitting by himself and now he is down to 2 or 3 12-oz cans a day. Very slowly getting it down to where he doesn't need the caffeine, lol.

[Wingnut]

The Word of Wisdom is primarily a health code, although now it is a condition for entering the Temple, and I can't remember, but I'm sure Ben is right that you probably can't get baptized. The Lord has found this a good measure of one's commitment to his gospel, and if one can't conquer this before Baptism, then one would probably soon begin to have much larger issues with the gospel later (or sooner rather than later).

First, let me apologize if I sounded insensitive above.

The commitments required for baptism are willingness to live the various laws (tithing, fasting, chastity, WoW, etc.). The commitments required for ordination to the Priesthood (and eventually a temple recommend) are demonstration of living these same laws. I've known a number of new converts to the Church who continue to struggle with various WoW-related habits (although usually smoking and drinking) for a year or more after baptism. I also know that they were not able to advance in the Priesthood, and the one person in particular that I'm thinking of never held a calling before he eventually fell away from the Church after less than two years.

It is important upon committing to baptism that one also commit to the lifestyle outlined by the Lord's laws. When such a commitment is made and taken seriously with honest desire, the Lord will help. I've seen it happen.

As well, there are resources and programs set up within the Church to help with various addictions, whether WoW-related, chastity-related, or anything else. There is a 12-step style program in the Church called the Addiction Recovery Program. It is similar to the basic AA format, but focuses on scripture/doctrine, and overcoming addiction and living a righteous life, as opposed to focusing on the addiction itself. It is very confidential. I believe that most stakes now operate at least one group. If there isn't one active in your stake, there should be one in a neighboring stake.

[Prodigal_Son]

So I have to give it up? Cause I have a strong and good feeling that I should join the LDS. Much stronger than the desire of coffee.

It sounds like you have your answer. And the Lord will bless you for your efforts. The Lord NEVER asks anything of us without a reward being doled out. Our "Word of Wisdom" can be found in The Doctrine & Covenants, Section 89 Here are excerpts:

A Word of Wisdom...Given for a principle with a promise...

...Inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father...

And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly...

And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man...

And again, hot drinks [COFFEE/TEA] are not for the body or belly...

...all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man...

Flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly...

All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine...

[AND IF WE OBEY THIS COMMAND, HERE IS WHAT THE LORD PROMISES:]

And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments:

- shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

- shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

- shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

- And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them

===================

The promises are WELL worth the sacrifice.

[Justice]

A bishop once visited the house of a less active member. As he entered his house, the bishop immediately noticed the coffee cup sitting on the table and the coffee maker across the room. This man made no attempt to hide his coffee drinking. During their conversation the bishop asked the man how long he had been drinking coffee. He said he had been drinking it for about a year or so. He commented how it calmed his nerves and how he loved the smell and flavor. He said, "Everyone has sins and addictions." He jokingly added, "Besides, a little coffee won't keep me out of the Celestial Kingdom, will it?"

The bishop responded, "No, but the disobedience will."

[semodex]

There are some great fake coffees out there...Roma is one and I just got a new one from Amazon called Oskri. They are made with barley and can be used to ease away from real coffee. I was a huge coffee drinker before I was baptized and the fake coffee really eased my desire to drink something warm in the morning.

It is wonderful that you are ready to make the change!!

[heartbroken]

If you feel that you want to be baptized pray about it. The Word of Wisdom is part of the commitment. Don't think of it as going without, think of it as gaining SO MUCH more than you can imagine!!

[rastler00]

If you want to join a religion, and they say no coffee, and a couple of other things.... then that is the way it is. You can rationalize it. People can tell you it is the "tannin" that is bad. That this tea is good and that tea is bad.... and it may not make sense. This drug is good and that drug is bad.... and that may not make sense..... and any one of a thousand variations of all of that. But, if you believe in the religion, that is all chump change compared to the core belief. None of that stuff is abuse, or unrighteouse dominion. It is just part of what makes up the faith. There are a lot of religions with similar type things.

[bmy-]

The Word of Wisdom was a serious sticking point for me pre-conversion. Mainly because of it being a requirement for a temple recommend..

I went ahead and got baptized.. i'm doing fairly well. I'll taste one of my moms drinks once in a while and give her a thumbs up/down (she loves 'trying new things').. but that's not 'wrong' for me.

It's up to interpretation. Some members interpret it to mean that all drinks with caffeine are to be avoided.. some say caffeine is okay.

Alot of members seem to say.. It's okay to gorge yourself on Mcdonalds or get hyped up on energy drinks -- you can still go to the temple. But you can't drink a cup of coffee. The Word of Wisdom hasn't always been adherence by abstinence. Moderation was encouraged in the beginning. Most importantly.. take care of your body.

If you're earnestly trying to quit drinking coffee.. they'll let you be baptized.

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

Just pointing out that basically everyone picks and chooses when it comes to the WoW. OP don't stress over the WoW. It's not as strict as it appears. As trav stated below.. make the covenant -- and honor it -- but don't make it until you're ready.

Edited September 10, 2008 by bmy-

[richlittell]

There are some great fake coffees out there...Roma is one and I just got a new one from Amazon called Oskri. They are made with barley and can be used to ease away from real coffee. I was a huge coffee drinker before I was baptized and the fake coffee really eased my desire to drink something warm in the morning.

It is wonderful that you are ready to make the change!!

My vice is diet coke! I'm probably going straight to ****.

I don't like the word coffee substitute, that sets one up to be mentally disappointed when it's nothing like real coffee. I prefer coffee alternatives, which is not an attempt to replace the coffee. These mental games we play with ourselves are silly but important, as you'll just keep going back to coffee if you try to replace it rather than develop a new taste for life--in the which coffee alternatives might just be the thing.

[Traveler]

So I have to give it up? Cause I have a strong and good feeling that I should join the LDS. Much stronger than the desire of coffee.

Make a covenant with G-d that you will give up your coffee to know him on a higher level. The more you know of him the more willing you will become to sacrifice for him and others - rather than for just your blessings and pleasure.

The Traveler

Edited September 10, 2008 by Traveler

[LostInSpace]

I too have a strong feeling I should join the church. So strong I will be baptized on Saturday. I work in IT - very long hours and lots of coffee is part of the culture. However, after only a couple talks with Missionaries and a single Sunday the Spirit was so strong. I gave it all up (smokes, coffee, scotch - cold turkey) and follow the Words of Wisdom. The first few days were hard - I had headcaches all the time and I was a little sleepy. But now, no problem. I find myself going to sleep at night far earlier than before and I wake earlier as well.

Just do it - the headaches will go away, the irritability will go away, your sleep will be better and Heavenly Father will be well pleased.

[BenRaines]

Lost in Space. Thank you for your personal comment. Congrats and good luck on the journey.

Ben Raines

[Misshalfway]

So I have to give it up? Cause I have a strong and good feeling that I should join the LDS. Much stronger than the desire of coffee.

Hi Nightshift. I appreciate how hard this all sounds to do. This is the way I look at it.

When I got baptised, it was like saying that I was putting my will aside and opening myself....or in fact committing myself to God's will for my life. What would he have me do with my body, my sexuality, my thoughts, my behavior, my nature.....etc.

When you make a choice to obey a commandment it is like saying yes to all these wonderful blessings the Lord has for you! Yes, there is sacrifice involved. Sacrifice is an eternal principle and without it true faith can't be developed. But it is the blessings that makes it all worth it.

For obedience to the word of wisdom, we are promised health....AND that our minds will be opened to treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures! Pretty cool, eh? And then we are blessed to have the Spirit with us, which I can't even begin to describe in terms of how valuable and powerful it is.

The Lord has so much he wishes to bless us with.....but we must be willing to give our sins away, give our vices away such as our habits and our pride and our need for control sometimes. We give it to God and trust that his way is better. It is a doorway to freedom. True freedom! And a path to deep inner contentment, cleanliness, access to power from on high, and beautiful peace.

Follow that feeling, Night shift. While your inner natural man wants the coffee, let your inner spirit want the things of the Lord. Keep you eyes on that goal....the blessings and open doors of the Lord.

[Maureen]

have been addicted to.Cigarettes, Cigarillos, pipe, chewing tobacco, snuff, And now I take snus (a swedish tobacco you put under your lips).I can live without nicotine and alcohol, but I will have a hard time giving up coffee, I drink around 12 cups a day.

Even if you don't join the LDS church, I'd stop the tobacco completely, unless you're looking forward to mouth cancer. I am a coffee drinker myself, but 12 cups/day is too much. A moderate coffee drinker is more likely to enjoy the health benefits. Cut down on the coffee intake. Remember this lovely proverb: "Everything in moderation. Nothing to excess."

[Moksha]

I have been addicted to.

Cigarettes, Cigarillos, pipe, chewing tobacco, snuff, And now I take snus (a Swedish tobacco you put under your lips).

Lip cancer is so awful. It is easy to understand why tobacco is not recommended.

I can live without nicotine and alcohol, but I will have a hard time giving up coffee, I drink around 12 cups a day.

Do you HAVE to stop drinking coffee or is that a choice? You wont go to Hell if you do, right?

Coffee seems to be much further down on the list than alcohol and tobacco. I would rank it with eat meats sparingly.

[Ironrod47]

Hi nightshift. I am a convert to the Church and I also had to give up some vices to get baptized. All I can tell you is to follow your heart and do what you know is right.

Giving up coffee and chewing tobacco can be very very tough. I know because I gave them up!

I must tell you that after my baptism I slipped up and went back to my old habits. The Word of Wisdom has always been a strugle for me.

If you decide to goin the Church, which I pray that you will, make a commit NOW to stop all of those horrible vices. It will make it easier when you do get baptized to not go back to them like I did.

[Ironrod47]

Oops, just a couple of spelling errors. I am new to this posting thing

[Maureen]

...make a commit NOW to stop all of those horrible vices...

Coffee actually is not a horrible vice but, if you do join the LDS church and agree to follow the WofW, then its only fair to stop drinking coffee. (...even though its good for you in moderation...)

[Iggy]

Coffee actually is not a horrible vice but, if you do join the LDS church and agree to follow the WofW, then its only fair to stop drinking coffee. (...even though its good for you in moderation...)

Disclaimer- Maureen is not LDS.

To those of us who are LDS, who have been in the past drinkers of coffee/tea/alcohol and users of tobacco- and have quit partaking of these things - it is like a horrible vice.

Yes Maureen, coffee was a vice to me. It was the hardest for me to quit, and I suffered the most with headaches, mood swings, vomiting, shakes, etc. I also understand that to you, coffee is none of these things. Good, I am glad that you are not addicted to it.

We were truly addicted to them. It IS a struggle to quit them.

Nightshift- it can be a great struggle to overcome drinking the coffee. I found that I couldn't find a suitable replacement. That is when I changed my attitude about it. If I want a warm/hot drink, and I don't want one that is almost sickenly sweet like hot chocolate tends to be, then I drink Pero and add milk, splenda and a dash of cinnamon.

[Moksha]

It it true that it becomes more pleasing to God when it is in a latte or mochachino concoction rather than say, an expresso?