Mentally Handicapped People

[Hemidakota]

What do you mean by "parents"? Are those who ended up with abusive parents the less valiant? Or is it the billions of parents who are not LDS? Or . . . what?

Elphaba

Elpha, look into the past [spirit world], it may give you further truth of those who did not desire the Plan of Salvation and wanted the easier path. It wasn’t a few spirits who choose this but the ‘many’.

As I am in harmony with Elder McConkie viewpoint no matter what others have stated in the church concerning what is term fence sitters. It was something I had to ask for myself in why many were given the better or lesser portion of this life and may not have the opportunity to receive the gospel.

Those handicapped from birth whom I have met personally, are the most precious spirits of FATHER. Now, if you find this is wrong, you need to seek your own answer on ‘why’ they enter life this way and who are they? Ben is right, we are here to be tested [a role or assigned mission] by them. Many of the brethren state the same. Now, this doesn’t remove the importunacy of those chosen from the beginning as Abraham described as the ‘great ones’ in being anything less than those are handicapped. They have a mission or tasking given by the FATHER prior to mortality and are required to accomplish their assigned mission in this world.

Yet, you and I still have agency to choose our path in this life to correct those issues of the past world. Let you know, we knew our mortality path and accepted it prior to birth no matter the fate await us. Receiving a body itself is the greater blessing. Whether the parents choose to be abusive in this physical state, it is still agency they choose and cannot blame their demise on the evil dominion or genetic inherited. Again, we are not left to dominion of Lucifer unless we have chosen it for our own fate.

Perhaps the best remembered phrase in Doctrine and Covenants section 121 is "many are called, but few are chosen" (verse 40). Why are the many not chosen? Section 121 offers three reasons:

(1) "their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world" (verse 35),

(2) they "aspire to the honors of men" (verse 35),

and (3) they "exercise unrighteous dominion" (verse 39).

We could add others to the list but being bright intellect sister, you already know the answer… this is just a representative sample but noticed a common pattern. The three reasons are all clear departures from the ways of GOD. The net effect is that people start going in the wrong direction with an ensuing diminution of commitment to sacred, spiritual things from our age of responsibility. If taken, these departures eventually turn us from the path that leads to the Tree of Life and eventually, we inhabit the building across the murky river as described in Lehi’s dream.

[Hemidakota]

A commonly held fallacy.

There appears to be some words missing from this. But in any case, Traveler's point remains: If we should treat retarded people with special respect, should not we treat everyone else that way, too?

Answer the first one in order to answer the last one.

[stormwitch]

In response:

I think the Savior trumps "the Prophet Seer and Revelator Harold B Lee" on this one.

If this man were born blind, then the only sin he could have committed would have been in the pre-mortal existence--and Christ says straightforward, this man did not sin.

It is quite obvious that it is wrong to conclude that everyone who is born with any sort of disadvantage, be it physical, mental, nationality or otherwise is born so solely as a means of punishment. --However, I will not argue that it may be so in some cases. Every individual will be different. My experiences with the handicapped that I have had contact with is that they are wonderful, amazing and special spirits.

***You took the words right out of my mouth***

I was always told that we are supposed to accept whatever our Prophets say during General Conference or in other situations, when they speak AS A PROPHET, is to be considered word of God. But on the other hand, whatever they write in books is just their personal opinion. In this case I would consider this statement as one of the man Harold B. Lee, and no more.

There are many things that seem to be strange or unfair, any kind of disadvantage, little children dying we do not really understand. We do not really understand why these things exist nor do we understand the reason behind it or the the purpose of it.

Isaiah 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD."

Assuming what He meant by giving some of His children a less perfect body makes absolutely no sense, as we cannot imagine what God's thoughts are like. All we know is that He loves all His children and that we are supposed to love them unreservedly, too.

[Hemidakota]

I did once hear a story of a young man who got his patriarichal blessing and in it stated he was given mental handicaps because he was one of the spirits to escort Satan out of Heaven, and the handicap, so to speak was actually a form of spiritual protection because his spirit was so close to Satan that he'd otherwise have a stronger influence on him.

At any rate some how I have a hard time believing anyone with a mental illness got it in the form as a punishment. Not to mention, if they were a supposed unvaliant soul, why would the be put into such a childlike state of mind here on earth, seems more like a gift to me Could be wrong, but hey. My Bishop gave some interesting insight that just maybe before we came to earth we may have had a hand in choosing the sort of difficulties and trials we go through. Just a thought.

There are more than one of GOD's henchmen that delivered the rebellious spirits out of GOD's presence and are not handicapped in morality.

Misinterpretation by the few here in reading into President Lee statement as they will not allow room for further light by the Spirit. This is the same cause of difference of opinions, authored by the same crowd who denounce what President Young statement on what is called the Adam God theory without further understanding of why would a Prophet state this. I even have reservation on what President O. McKay stated on Sister Smith (Joseph’s wife) fate in the afterlife. If we want to know for ourselves on what was being stated, we ask with faith and hope in receiving our personal answers.

[Troy4]

I have a question about special spirits... So I was at a football game of mine and this man came up to this group of us on the sidelines and said, "I just traveled a few hours to watch this game I am hear to investigate a person on your team." One of my teammates asked are you like a private investigator? Then the man said no I am from the LDS church and someone called this teammate in for being a special spirit so he is here to investigate him. So what is a special spirit? Because the next thing that happened was we spotted the kid in question and he looked right at us and came up to us and said to us be careful who you talk to and then went on the field and played. He was running back and would break like 7 tackles in a play. This kid was definitely gifted. The investigator after that said he had never seen him before and that the kid had like super ears or something. Anyways we were all watching him and he got like a 70 yard run his next play. The funny thing is this was it was like his second year playing football and not his main talents he is just good at anything he does. So can special spirits be people who aren't handicapped and just have special abilities because this kid had definitely something that was more then met the eye with him.

[pam]

I would say don't read more into it than what is there. Some are just natural athletes.

[Troy4]

I have a question about special spirits... So I was at a football game of mine and this man came up to this group of us on the sidelines and said, "I just traveled a few hours to watch this game I am hear to investigate a person on your team." One of my teammates asked are you like a private investigator? Then the man said no I am from the LDS church and someone called this teammate in for being a special spirit so he is here to investigate him. So what is a special spirit? Because the next thing that happened was we spotted the kid in question and he looked right at us and came up to us and said to us be careful who you talk to and then went on the field and played. He was running back and would break like 7 tackles in a play. This kid was definitely gifted. The investigator after that said he had never seen him before and that the kid had like super ears or something. Anyways we were all watching him and he got like a 70 yard run his next play. The funny thing is this was it was like his second year playing football and not his main talents he is just good at anything he does. So can special spirits be people who aren't handicapped and just have special abilities because this kid had definitely something that was more then met the eye with him.

[Troy4]

Very true and normally I would agree but that doesn't explain why there was a church investigator there. All I know is that there is so many cool things about our church. Many untold things that are mysterious and for the most part secret.

[pam]

Sorry I just don't buy the story about a church investigator.

[Guest]

It was probably just one of the three Nephites. I bet they'd be awesome at football and everything. Lots of time to practice.

[john doe]

I have a question about special spirits... So I was at a football game of mine and this man came up to this group of us on the sidelines and said, "I just traveled a few hours to watch this game I am hear to investigate a person on your team." One of my teammates asked are you like a private investigator? Then the man said no I am from the LDS church and someone called this teammate in for being a special spirit so he is here to investigate him. So what is a special spirit? Because the next thing that happened was we spotted the kid in question and he looked right at us and came up to us and said to us be careful who you talk to and then went on the field and played. He was running back and would break like 7 tackles in a play. This kid was definitely gifted. The investigator after that said he had never seen him before and that the kid had like super ears or something. Anyways we were all watching him and he got like a 70 yard run his next play. The funny thing is this was it was like his second year playing football and not his main talents he is just good at anything he does. So can special spirits be people who aren't handicapped and just have special abilities because this kid had definitely something that was more then met the eye with him.

Does your leg hurt? Because it sounds like he was pulling on it pretty hard.

[searching_questioner]

-a-train

This is a comment in response to the original question/comment that started this discussion. I really don't think you can say much more on this question than what a-train said when he quoted John 9:1-3, and Elder McConkie's comment on these verses:

By this act of giving sight to a blind beggar Jesus, in a dramatic and irrefutable manner, proclaimed himself as: (1) The Light of the World; and (2) The very Son of God. Incident to its performance he also: Confirmed the disciples' belief in pre-existence; rejected the belief of some that physical handicaps result from ante-mortal sin; taught that his own work was assigned him by the Father; reaffirmed that he stands in judgment upon the world; and taught that rejection of light and truth bring condemnation.

John 9 33. Men are not born with physical deformities as a punishment for sins committed in pre-existence. Parents may bequeath physical ills to their offspring as a result of sins committed during mortality, as when children are born blind because of venereal disease suffered by the mother. Or physical deformities may result from conditions wholly beyond the control of any individual, as when children are born with imperfections due to atomic radiation. Or yet again, the handicap may be one allowed, as here, to fulfil the Lord's own peculiar purposes.

Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Volume 1, page 479.

I also think that any good answer to this question needs to take into account the situation of those who were born without any kind of disability, but later acquired such a disability through accident or illness. Most people with some kind of handicap were not born with that handicap but acquired it later in life.

[Blackmarch]

Why are some people on this earth mentally handicapped? I was in a gas station last night. A van pulled up and let some mentally handicapped people out to get drinks.

Are these people this way because they were so righteous in the pre-life that Father made them this way so they would not have to experience all the horrors and sadness of this life? Are some of them made that way because they were great warriors during the war in the pre-life and received wounds so bad that they carried over to this life?

God allows consequences.

Perhaps a more correct form of the question would be why does god allw spirits to inhabit such bodies? I dont know. Perhaps they were great individuals... i think joseph smith held a similar view like that, in regards to children that passed away before the age of accountability.

As for carrying wounds over i have no idea if there were actual spiritual interaction that could be accounted as violence, or if a spirits mental wellbeing would affect the physical growth of a body.

Perhaps the trials they need to face are drastically different than the ones we need to.

[Just_A_Guy]

I have a question about special spirits... So I was at a football game of mine and this man came up to this group of us on the sidelines and said, "I just traveled a few hours to watch this game I am hear to investigate a person on your team." One of my teammates asked are you like a private investigator? Then the man said no I am from the LDS church and someone called this teammate in for being a special spirit so he is here to investigate him. So what is a special spirit? Because the next thing that happened was we spotted the kid in question and he looked right at us and came up to us and said to us be careful who you talk to and then went on the field and played. He was running back and would break like 7 tackles in a play. This kid was definitely gifted. The investigator after that said he had never seen him before and that the kid had like super ears or something. Anyways we were all watching him and he got like a 70 yard run his next play. The funny thing is this was it was like his second year playing football and not his main talents he is just good at anything he does. So can special spirits be people who aren't handicapped and just have special abilities because this kid had definitely something that was more then met the eye with him.

Sounds like a college football recruiter was having a little fun with you.

[applepansy]

Sorry I just don't buy the story about a church investigator.

In 5 decades I've never even heard of a church investigator.

[john doe]

In 5 decades I've never even heard of a church investigator.

Not to be picky, but we have heard of investigators. In fact, we often talk about people who are actively taking missionary discussions as 'investigators'. What we have not heard of is the LDS Church sending out 'investigators' to look into possible supernatural occurrances or people.

[Sharky]

Or are some this way so that we can learn to be more understanding of others who are a little different than we are. Do we walk the other way when we see them? Do we give them a smile and try to be friendly?

Personally I think it is more of a test for us than for them.

Ben Raines

Someone once said to me concerning their eye sight: "It's a little difficult to miss something you never had".

I see a man everyday & I watch as he gradually looses his faculties, his abilities. That is a test for both Him & those of us around him.

Mentally &/or Physically Handicapped that were born that way or suffered sometype of injury early on in life, yes, they learn fom their challenges .... but more important we learn from them!

[Irishcolleen]

People have different gifts. Even those with intellectual disabilities have something to offer the world. We had a gentleman with a severe learning disability in our church. He served through prayer, especially for the youth. After he passed away, our pastor found his prayer journals. He prayed for hours a day for the youth of our church. We won't know this side of heaven everything those prayers accomplished, but I'm sure it was huge.

Ephesians 2:10 says, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

People with disabilities don't need pity. They need acceptance, to be treated with dignity and respect, just like anyone else. They are here for the same reason we are, because God has work for them to do!

[Guest]

I've had the blessing in my ward of knowing 2 fantastic boys with Down Syndrome. The family of one of them is in the process of adopting another. Even in pictures you can see what a precious, fun little guy he is. . . and his country of origin has just discarded him.

[Traveler]

People have different gifts. Even those with intellectual disabilities have something to offer the world. We had a gentleman with a severe learning disability in our church. He served through prayer, especially for the youth. After he passed away, our pastor found his prayer journals. He prayed for hours a day for the youth of our church. We won't know this side of heaven everything those prayers accomplished, but I'm sure it was huge.

Ephesians 2:10 says, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

People with disabilities don't need pity. They need acceptance, to be treated with dignity and respect, just like anyone else. They are here for the same reason we are, because God has work for them to do!

I like the idea you express that we each have gifts. One thing I find quite interesting is that we tend to discard anyone that is different. As near as could be determined a study found that over 50% or the genus in the USA is discarded in our education system grades k-12.

However I tend to think in the terms of gifts in association with genus. And I think we often discard others because their gift or genus is different than our own.

Many years ago - in another life - I thought to become a teacher but was rejected by the educational system. The reason as it turns out, I am dyslectic and cannot spell. So I had to become an engineer - which seems to me to have turned out quite well.

Perhaps our educational system needs more mentors and fewer tormentors - or perhaps that is a social issue not unique to education.

The Traveler

[Seminarysnoozer]

Why are some people on this earth mentally handicapped? I was in a gas station last night. A van pulled up and let some mentally handicapped people out to get drinks.

Are these people this way because they were so righteous in the pre-life that Father made them this way so they would not have to experience all the horrors and sadness of this life? Are some of them made that way because they were great warriors during the war in the pre-life and received wounds so bad that they carried over to this life?

I think the irony of this question is to ask yourself who in this world is not mentally handicapped?

We are in a fallen state, we have taken on corrupted bodies (brains), all of us. How far fallen are we?

It must be a lot, to not remember thousands if not millions of years of training in the presence of God. To me, that qualifies as being mentally handicapped!

Realize that the whole purpose of the second estate is to prove where the heart is, not the intellect. This would be a horrible test of intellect but is a wonderful way to test and to show to ourselves where the true desire of our heart lies. We don't need another test of intellect, that was done with the first estate test. We all passed it.

[Joshua9er]

I definitely agree with seminarysnoozer. We are all in some way mentally handicapped. I saw this comment right before the presidential debates and after watching Mitt Romney in debate 1 I have to say some of us are capable of incredible things. We must push ourselves to our potential. The pressure that Mitt handled to be in front of millions with no teleprompter is just nuts. We may be in corrupted bodies but we are still capable of many things and we must remember that.

As to Troy's comment the word special spirit is used as a name for handicaps and a Utah word that Mormons say to one another when they are sweet to one another. I also have heard of patriartcle blessings where they call them special spirits. Where there is a hidden meaning to it I don't know but I think it would be really cool to find out?

[Convert55]

Wow! This thread started in 2008. There is a lot of good stuff in here.

Having had two children born with the same debilitating genetic disorder I have gone through most all the thought processes you have covered in this thread and I must say that I have had a ton of why questions over the years. And to reveal my selfishness, when my son was born and his condition was immediately apparent my first question was, “Why me? What did I do to deserve this?” Then after a few years and having a boy and a girl with the same genetic defect and finding out what exceedingly special spirits were inside them, and I had charge of raising them when I myself was closer to the other end of the spectrum from what they were I said to myself, “Why me? What did I do to deserve this?”

Eventually I took “Me” out of the picture and just asked why must these things be? I believe that there is no one single answer but many valid and true answers according to needs of the Lord.

What is really surprising to me is that no one has gotten around to talking about the atonement on this thread. One of the reasons that these things must be is, I believe, because of the atonement. I will offer a line of reasoning that may be flawed but still may have a thread of truth in it, so bear with me.

In Alma we read:

Alma 7:12

12 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.

If you will allow that “he will take upon him their infirmities” to mean that Christ will take upon him and overcome all things that can go wrong with the body then I think I can show that in the resurrection no one will have to suffer these things because Christ has overcome them.

Lets take a look at 2Ne 9

6 For as adeath hath passed upon all men, to fulfil the mercifulbplan of the great Creator, there must needs be a power ofcresurrection, and the resurrection must needs come unto man by reason of the dfall; and the fall came by reason of etransgression; and because man became fallen they were fcut off from thegpresence of the Lord.

Notice how in verse 6 the main subject is resurrection and now in verse 7 Jacob slips into the atonement almost interchangeably.

7 Wherefore, it must needs be an ainfinite batonement—save it should be an infinite atonement this corruption could not put on incorruption. Wherefore, the cfirst judgment which came upon man must needs have dremained to an endless duration. And if so, this flesh must have laid down to rot and to crumble to its mother earth, to rise no more.

Now let your mind dewll on “infinite atonement. “ for a moment. Seeing how the resurrection and the atonement are closely coupled, I got the idea that among other things this infinite atonement can also refer to all the things that can possibly go wrong with the body.

Now, if Christ had to be baptized in order to fulfill all righteousness then it is obvious to me that it not ok to say, “Oh, he doesn’t need to be baptized because he is perfect.” The Christ’s baptism had to exist; justice demanded it.

In the same vane, if Christ is to take upon him the infirmities of his people then they (everything that can go wrong with the body) must exist and if they must exist, then we must suffer them. Thank goodness we don’t have to suffer them all in one person.

Sorry. I have to go. Conference is coming on. But you can see where I am going

[Seminarysnoozer]

If you will allow that “he will take upon him their infirmities” to mean that Christ will take upon him and overcome all things that can go wrong with the body then I think I can show that in the resurrection no one will have to suffer these things because Christ has overcome them.

Yes, we "allowed" Him to do that by agreeing to God's plan in the first estate test. Christ will overcome all things that can go wrong with the body and in the process we do not die again. Which is to say the major thing that can go wrong with the body is death. This is something we all suffer through by living. Even if one had a really good body in this life, it is still corrupted and broken and starts to decay around the mid twenties in most things. We have all the neurons (for the most part), for example, we are going to have by the time we reach puberty.

This is to also speak of the fact that how we are now is not a direct reflection of our spirit self. This is a tough concept for a lot of people to understand. There, we are not just talking about bad things but possibly also good things, i.e. - God given temporary gifts and talents.

[Traveler]

I wondered about another thought. It is something that has always been of interest and concern to me but I am not sure where to go with the idea. Several years ago I happened to sit on a long airplane ride with an individual that was just returning from a convention as one of the key note speakers. The person was one of the world's leading experts in genetics.

This is a field that I have some interest and questions - so I thought to take advantage of the opportunity to perhaps learn something. My main question had to do with maintaining and improving a strong gene pool in our human population. I voiced the understanding that I had that predators play an important role in populations in that those with weaker genetics are killed. We see this all around us in nature. But in human populations we preserve our weaker individuals seemingly increasing and magnifying detrimental genetics (both mental and physical) in our populations. So my question to the expert is do we have any idea genetically what compassion to "weaker" individuals is having on the gene pool.

He said that there have been some studies but the results so fighting no one has dared to publish the results in fear of public backlash. That made me quite curious so I asked if they would give me some details. They said no - that they did not want to talk about it.

From time to time I have raised this question in discussions like this - I am not sure it can even be discussed without offending someone that should not be offended - or not???

The Traveler