beefche

You're single because....

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I'm with you, checks. I don't believe in the "soul mate" idea. I think very few individuals were ordained to be married to each other (Adam and Eve come to mind).

It is up to us to work at relationships rather than just waiting for "the one" to come along. There is no "the one"--rather several "the ones" IMO.

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Already had a daughter marry the son of a Stake Pres. Boy was a returned missionary and physically abuse, former son in law. :)

Ben Raines

You should be proud of your daughter, getting out of that. I hear it's a nightmare and hard to leave in a lot of cases.

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Ditto to what FunkyTown said (about Ben's daughter).

And to what Ben said about

I believe that the reason most single sisters are not married is because there are very few worthy males to marry.

I know worthy carries a certain idea in LDS thinking, but I'm going to put it as simply as a downright lack of maturity.

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I think from a single guy's POV that some guys are immature. But at the same time, there are a lot of external factors that hinder guys from "moving on with life". For example, in the past 10 years, college tuition and other expenses have skyrocketed above inflation making it more difficult than ever before to complete your undergrad degree in 4 years. Now it's more like 6 or 7 years on average to complete your degree with all the added coursework that some universities require as well guys sometimes going only part time since that's only what they can afford.

So if some RM didn't start school because he had to pay for his own mission by working full time when he was 18 and 19, and didn't start until he was 21, finishing his degree at 28 or 29 is not out of the norm by today's standards.

Meanwhile, a lot of women start school full-time right after high school often with parental support (more so than RMs), so women in the church (who didn't serve their own missions) have at least, on average, a 3 or 4 year head start with schooling and their careers.

That kind of economic imbalance between single guys and women in the church, puts pressure on a lot of guys feeling that they have to finish school before they can seriously begin dating. So some single women feel the guys "are not stepping up " and "honoring their Priesthood", meanwhile some guys lose focus and give up to ease the pressure of inadeqancy they feel, so they go inactive, or don't try much to "move forward", or feel they can never be that perfect provider.

Guys thrive much more on praise, encouragement, and understanding than being brow-beaten by a lot of the single women I see on LDS blogs, in YSA and SA Wards, and also by local church leaders. Just think how many more active LDS guys there would be if such an attitude of praise, encouragement, and understanding in the church actually exists?

Edited by mattai

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I agree with Ben: Don't blame other people for our own failures. The people in church are human. They always have been and always will be. We can't control people who judge, or who say unkind things to us.

We can only control ourselves. If there is a dearth of men(And there are - Single men are 6 times as likely as women to leave the church after the age of thirty), it is not due to the judgmental nature of the sisters(Although, if you -are- judgmental, feel free to stop. You certainly don't help). This is caused by our own weakness. We all have problems. Some might perceive other problems as 'more sinful', but the truth is, we all have difficulties. That doesn't excuse us from standing up to those difficulties and doing what needs to be done.

None of us are perfect. But we don't find our own strength by laying down and avoiding the conflict; We only learn what we are capable of by standing up to the forces that oppose us.

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I think from a single guy's POV that some guys are immature. But at the same time, there are a lot of external factors that hinder guys from "moving on with life". For example, in the past 10 years, college tuition and other expenses have skyrocketed above inflation making it more difficult than ever before to complete your undergrad degree in 4 years. Now it's more like 6 or 7 years on average to complete your degree with all the added coursework that some universities require as well guys sometimes going only part time since that's only what they can afford.

So if some RM didn't start school because he had to pay for his own mission by working full time when he was 18 and 19, and didn't start until he was 21, finishing his degree at 28 or 29 is not out of the norm by today's standards.

Meanwhile, a lot of women start school full-time right after high school often with parental support (more so than RMs), so women in the church (who didn't serve their own missions) have at least, on average, a 3 or 4 year head start with schooling and their careers.

That kind of economic imbalance between single guys and women in the church, puts pressure on a lot of guys feeling that they have to finish school before they can seriously begin dating. So some single women feel the guys "are not stepping up " and "honoring their Priesthood", meanwhile some guys lose focus and give up to ease the pressure of inadeqancy they feel, so they go inactive, or don't try much to "move forward", or feel they can never be that perfect provider.

Guys thrive much more on praise, encouragement, and understanding than being brow-beaten by a lot of the single women I see on LDS blogs, in YSA and SA Wards, and also by local church leaders. Just think how many more active LDS guys there would be if such an attitude of praise, encouragement, and understanding in the church actually exists?

Here's the thing. I agree to some degree with Mattai's statement regarding the "men bashing" (my words, not his). Certainly, the GA's of the church have had some harsh words for the priesthood. And words to the sisters haven't been so harsh. And it gets tiresome on a local level to hear men (especially men of the priesthood) being put down by themselves or others. I hate hearing, "wow, he married up!" or "how did she agree to marry you?!" Stop the bashing!

But, if we want to place the picky blame on anyone, then men and women are to share equally. I think that men are immature in their wish list for women. And I think women are just as immature.

But, I'm not talking so much about YSA as I am about SA. That means men/women over age 30. Shouldn't we at least be more realistic and mature by that age and older? I cannot place blame of my single status on any one thing or person. There are many factors only some of which are my responsibility.

Are there things that the Church can do? Certainly. Are there things I can do? Of course. Are there things that men can do to meet such a wonderful woman as myself? Yep.

I just get tired of people trying to find blame all the time. If a good friend of mine wants to sit down with me to discuss their thoughts, advice, whatever on my single status in a loving manner, then I would welcome it. I certainly hope he/she wouldn't simply say it's because men are immature, or you don't have enough faith, or you want to be single. That just isn't helpful on any level.

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I have a daughter who turns 29 tomorrow. She served a mission, for most guys that scares them off, I can't understand that but oh well. She holds a current temple recommend. Just finished an Associates degree while working full time, now going to start on Bachelors to then go to school to be a Physician's assistant.

Attends all her meetings. Is great with her nieces, can cook, sew, very athletic also and most of the guys she meets are looking for 18 yr old, blond, 105 lb, girls. Notice I said girls. Some of these guys are 30 or older and they are still looking for the little hottie coming out of high school.

I lucked out when I married to marry an 18 yr old hottie who can cook, sew, now has a BA in Spanish and earned it while taking care of me and four small children.

Sorry guys and girls but the two of us are already taken :)

Ben Raines

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It's just like the First-Counciller in the Stake Presidency.

His daughter is 29. She's an RM, funny, athelitc, fetchin beautiful. She's worked with Doctors Without Borders in places like India, parts of Asia and Latin America. However, she's single...and when I first saw her I just thought "Why?"

I think a lot of men are intimidated by someone that awesome...it's true about what Ben said that a lot (Maybe not even most) of young guys are looking for the right out of high school girly girl.

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It's just like the First-Counciller in the Stake Presidency.

His daughter is 29. She's an RM, funny, athelitc, fetchin beautiful. She's worked with Doctors Without Borders in places like India, parts of Asia and Latin America. However, she's single...and when I first saw her I just thought "Why?"

I think a lot of men are intimidated by someone that awesome...it's true about what Ben said that a lot (Maybe not even most) of young guys are looking for the right out of high school girly girl.

Or, perhaps there are not that many 29 year-old single guys that match her "mental mold" and she outgrew the pool of her contemporaries and now placed herself out of the race, so to speak.

She spent several years pursuing other interest, as you mentioned. She prioritize other activities ahead of marriage. Nothing wrong on that per se. But all action has a proportional impact or reaction. Remember Elder Eyring's talk on "Good, better and best..."?

Just some thoughts

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Or, perhaps there are not that many 29 year-old single guys that match her "mental mold" and she outgrew the pool of her contemporaries and now placed herself out of the race, so to speak.

She spent several years pursuing other interest, as you mentioned. She prioritize other activities ahead of marriage. Nothing wrong on that per se. But all action has a proportional impact or reaction. Remember Elder Eyring's talk on "Good, better and best..."?

Just some thoughts

I'm going to back him up on this. Men probably -are- intimidated by her. Guys in the church have this weird mentality that they can't flirt once they get past a certain age.

Guys? If you don't show any indication that you're interested in a girl, they will be weirded out when you finally ask them out. It's not a crime to let a girl know that you're interested and, if they shoot you down badly, you can just laugh it off. Who -hasn't- been shot down? ;)

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OK, I am not a guy...but if I were, I would much rather spend my life with Ben's daughter. Hands down I would choose a confident, accomplished, educated woman over an eighteen year old "girly-girl"...she would bore me within months.

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Sounds like this 29 year old daughter needs to attend more "Midsingles" activities to find guys in their 30s, than her hanging out in a YSA Ward where most guys in their late 20s typically go for women in their early to mid 20s.

In fact I can direct her to the Midsingles scene in the Boise area if she's interested.

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Thanks for the offer mattai, if she knew I was telling anyone this stuff she would kill me.

YSA guys are not looking for the early to mid 20's girls, they are looking for the fresh girls right out of high school or first year of college.

My daughter has been marriage minded since she went to BYU. I know some are probably saying "This guy is just trying to push his older, homely, can't get a man, daughter off on some poor guy". Not the case. It will be a lucky guy who she marries some day. Oh well on to other subjects.

Ben Raines

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That's why here we invite the older YSAs (27-30) to attend our 30-something Midsingles activities, so someone in their late 20s can socalize with guys in their early to mid 30s, and to help with that transition out of the YSA scene.

Also, some areas (like my stake), don't allow YSAs to attend the YSA Ward until they are 21 so the 30 year old is not dating someone who's 18. They encourage YSAs ages 18-20 to stay in family wards but can attend YSA dances etc.

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I've actually had a (guy) friend tell me that he wouldn't be able to date someone like me because I'm too far above him.

If you watch the TV show Chuck, he followed it up with the analogy that he's Chuck and I'm Sarah. (If you don't watch the show, Chuck is a computer-nerd who works in a retail electronics store and is in love with Sarah, a very beautiful CIA agent.) I told him that on the show, Sarah loves Chuck. (And I'm hardly that beautiful- she is one really gorgeous lady! But I digress.)

Guys, just so you know, ladies like the type that Ben described do not think of themselves like that (being 'above'), so neither should you. If they did, they would not do the sorts of things they do. Rather, they'd act like an entitled Princess. No, these are the loving and caring women of the world - isn't that what you would want in a lady friend?!

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I've actually had a (guy) friend tell me that he wouldn't be able to date someone like me because I'm too far above him.

If you watch the TV show Chuck, he followed it up with the analogy that he's Chuck and I'm Sarah. (If you don't watch the show, Chuck is a computer-nerd who works in a retail electronics store and is in love with Sarah, a very beautiful CIA agent.) I told him that on the show, Sarah loves Chuck. (And I'm hardly that beautiful- she is one really gorgeous lady! But I digress.)

Guys, just so you know, ladies like the type that Ben described do not think of themselves like that (being 'above'), so neither should you. If they did, they would not do the sorts of things they do. Rather, they'd act like an entitled Princess. No, these are the loving and caring women of the world - isn't that what you would want in a lady friend?!

Yeah, well that sounds really good, cute and romantic but the mechanics of such relationships and 100 years of recent social history points to the contrary. Not that it could not work, but on the average it does not. Who wants to get married with those odds? I could do better in Vegas, if I were the gambling kind.

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[you bet cha !!!!!!!

Being single beats being married to the wrong guy any day!]

Thanks for that, can't be said enough...may I add " ladies" aswell. I have never been on a date with anyone whom I've known less than a year, I was raised pentecostal, by my Grandparents.

So now that I have this internet thing, I wanted to see why LDS people are so content with their lot.Its been my pleasure to know a few ka-billion,hehe.

I have been drawn to your lovely spirits and will find out why soon. Thank you all, for providing this forum, and your inputs :)

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Or, perhaps there are not that many 29 year-old single guys that match her "mental mold" and she outgrew the pool of her contemporaries and now placed herself out of the race, so to speak.

She spent several years pursuing other interest, as you mentioned. She prioritize other activities ahead of marriage. Nothing wrong on that per se. But all action has a proportional impact or reaction. Remember Elder Eyring's talk on "Good, better and best..."?

Just some thoughts

She pursued other interest, but did not put them above marriage let me tell you that.

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I've actually had a (guy) friend tell me that he wouldn't be able to date someone like me because I'm too far above him.

Are you quite certain that that was the case? It sounds sorta like some lame excuse/lie to get out of a date to me....

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regarding soul mates--I once asked a girl if she would be interested in marrying me, seeing as I was very interested in marrying her. I had prayed about it and felt good about discussing it with her and the answer to my prayer was that I would be very happy married to her. She said she had thought and prayed about it, but felt strongly that she hadn't yet met the guy that she would marry. So, the Lord did have someone in mind for her to marry, but didn't have anyone specific in mind for me to marry. Some people have a 'soul-mate' and some people don't.

The comment "God does not do random"--as a statistician, I have to say that is entirely false. God is the originator of random. Set the system in motion and let it go...that's the definition of random.

Ben, the second husband that was physically abusive--is he still alive? I can tell you, I wouldn't want to be the guy to meet your rage after hitting your daughter. The thought makes me want to soil my pants.

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The comment "God does not do random"--as a statistician, I have to say that is entirely false. God is the originator of random. Set the system in motion and let it go...that's the definition of random..

An Omniscient God can not possibly do random since He already knows the outcome. We interpret a phenomenon as random because we ignore cause and effect. That doe not make it random. If so (random) then why do we pray for revelation? Why do we pray for favor, safety, clarity if not to discern God's purpose?

We may interpret agency as random, choice, flimsiness, luck or whatever. Our own darkness does not implies absence of light.

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TOO PICKY? What I want a man who has a job, a testimony, isn't abusive, not a pedophile, takes showers, and isn't lazy. Is that too much?

You sound like me except that I'm just getting back into church again and am getting back my faith in Heavenly Father when I thought he left my life but now I know that I walked away from him!

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Or, perhaps there are not that many 29 year-old single guys that match her "mental mold" and she outgrew the pool of her contemporaries and now placed herself out of the race, so to speak.

She spent several years pursuing other interest, as you mentioned. She prioritize other activities ahead of marriage. Nothing wrong on that per se. But all action has a proportional impact or reaction. Remember Elder Eyring's talk on "Good, better and best..."?

Just some thoughts

prioritize other interests? i think that's hardly the case.. some of us are forced to pursue other interests because marriage is elusive..

case in point: i met my ex-bf during college.. he left for his mission and i waited for him.. there was talk of marriage.. when he returned, we came up with a plan - we were to save and he was to build a relationship with my family. i quit my masters so i can focus more on the plan, because i prioritized marriage.. however, things didn't go so well..he didn't stick to the plan..he rarely visited me..i was the one looking for means so we will see each other..he changes his course of action on a whim and it seems he never gives any thought as to how it would affect me, affect us..he quit school..he didn't exert much effort in finding work..bottomline is, i felt like i was doing all the work.. i was devastated.. so what do i do? i break up with him..better get a heartbreak this early than spend eternity with someone who gave me no thought..AND then i go back to my masters..

i am applying for graduate school.. but something is holding me back..

maybe the fear that i would "intimidate" the guys i meet and i end up alone..

i hear feedback from friends and cousins.. they say i'm a spinster in the making with my pursuits.. but is it this hard to meet someone? should i pretend i'm dumb and that i don't have any opinions? should i shortchange myself from improving myself?

will i eventually place myself "out of the race" too? or do i settle instead?

but i hold my case about pursuing interests.. IT IS NEVER BECAUSE MARRIAGE IS IN THE BOTTOM OF OUR LIST.. MARRIAGE IS ACTUALLY ON TOP OF OUR LIST but when a girl remains unmarried, what is there left to do?

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