What is Virginity Worth Today?

[Dr T]

I don't think so sir. I hear what you are saying based on a human perspective and social conditions etc. We only read about the unpardonable sin (which I see as not accepting of Christ after hearing the Gospel message) but all other sins do seperate us from God as we are sinful and Jesus' work is the only way for resitution IMO.

[bytor2112]

I don't think so sir. I hear what you are saying based on a human perspective and social conditions etc. We only read about the unpardonable sin (which I see as not accepting of Christ after hearing the Gospel message) but all other sins do seperate us from God as we are sinful and Jesus' work is the only way for resitution IMO.

Yes.....all sin separates us from God. The atonement of Jesus Christ ransomed humankind and satisfied the demands of justice on conditions of repentance. Without Christ all humankind would be lost. I believe the unforgivable sin is denying the Holy Ghost, not Christ.

[Maxel]

You're both right.

On the one hand, all sin separates us from God spiritually. Christ's atonement is the only way to overcome that barrier. Without the atonement, stealing a pack of gum would be as damning, in eternal effect, as murder.

On the other hand, there are degrees of severity of sin. It is much easier, and far less time and energy consuming, to repent of a cruel look or word than of punching someone else in the face. This is because the nature of repentance, and what it entails: feeling godly sorrow, making restitution (inasmuch is possible), and apologizing to those you offended.

Simply because God cannot look 'upon the least degree of sin with allowance' does not mean that there isn't different degrees within sin itself.

[Traveler]

I think I shall add some more of my opinion.

Most people think of sin as something that we do to others. I think this is a really bad mistake. The bad thing about sin is not what it does to others because the atonement of Christ completely overcomes everything that is associated with that problem. The problem with sin is what it does to our soul, especially when we do not repent or see need to repent.

The other thing I find interesting is the lengths some go to in order to define "the unpardonable” sin. Do we, in such discussions forget that any sin for which we do not seek forgiveness will not be pardoned? Do we not realize that refusal to repent of any sin is the very essence of denying the atonement of Christ as testified by the Holy Ghost and therefore denying the Holy Ghost as well as Christ?

One other thought from Alma – “Wickedness never was happiness.”

One last thought – wisdom and the joy of wisdom is not in knowledge but in the dedication and effort in which we seek it.

The Traveler

[miztrniceguy]

so i think its just a way to make a buck....i don't think she will even do it. but she's getting publicity in the meantime.

[pam]

I'm ashamed to see she is from San Diego. Oh the horror of it. (Okay in case you don't understand my comment..my favorite city and always my home town)

[Dr T]

Oh so u must be a Chargers fan. Hmmm, yep, LA-LAKERS now do u understand Pammy? hahahaha

[hordak]

Keep in mind making a bid and completing the contract are two different things. Can the bidder actually deliver on the purchase price?

There have been lots of phony bidders on things before. Imagine some guy telling his buddies. "Hey I bid 3.7 million for some chick's virginity".

Ben Raines

That was my thought when i first heard this story. Anyone with enough business sense or luck to amass that much money should have enough to understand it wouldn't be worth the cost.

[Hemidakota]

I'm ashamed to see she is from San Diego. Oh the horror of it. (Okay in case you don't understand my comment..my favorite city and always my home town)

Not unusual.

[Hemidakota]

I don't think so sir. I hear what you are saying based on a human perspective and social conditions etc. We only read about the unpardonable sin (which I see as not accepting of Christ after hearing the Gospel message) but all other sins do seperate us from God as we are sinful and Jesus' work is the only way for resitution IMO.

Sin against the Holy Ghost is one who receives the FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD and reject its later through sins and then fights against the church, the gospel, and the Godhead.

[pam]

I was trying to be humorous Hemi. Said tongue in cheek.

[Hemidakota]

Most of the 50 states, I think 49 of them and most counties in Nevada have laws that make this illegal. It is only allowed in the smallest counties of Nevada. It is a misnomer that it is allowed in all the state of Nevada.

Most of us, those who are here to promote LDS beliefs, believe that what she is doing is a sin. Robbing a bank is too among many other things. Judging unjustly is a sin too.

What this girl is doing is wrong in our eyes. I have not seen the Glen Beck interview. If this girl does not have the same beliefs, upbringing etc, is it a sin for her? Knowledge is required to sin.

I feel that there are more and more people willing to call what we call sin inconsequential. An old saying from the 1960s was "If it feels good, do it".

Wrong is wrong and right is right.

I don't believe that you can plan to commit a sin with the intent or plan to repent afterwards. "Oh I can do this because there is repentance and I can get it straightened out later." Where is the remorse for sin committed?

Ben Raines

Depending on the Light of Christ receive, she will merit justice based on what she already knows.

[NeuroTypical]

I just want to state openly that although I'm generally a loudmouth with firm, entrenched convictions, I just don't know what I think on this issue. I've got little girls to raise, and I want to raise them right, so I appreciate everyone contributing to the conversation. In this case, I'm an empty vessel trying to be filled with living water.

You may be perceived as a virtuous person, but did you really get your virtue back? Or have you only repented of the sin of losing your virtue?

Interesting thought. So, let's take a few examples:

Saul went about trying to destroy the Church. He repented and became Paul the Apostle.

A boozing, gambling, promiscous man repents and realizes the complete change of heart that comes from availing oneself of the atoning sacrifice of Christ. He sets his shoulder to the wheel with all his might. He may be bishop some day.

A prostitute reforms, repents, and puts her old life behind her. But she will never be anything more than a "former prostitute" - carrying that taint throughout her life.

It just doesn't seem right.

Virtue, chastity, and virginity. I found this little gem a while ago on another board, and I read it often. What do you folks think about it?

Virtue, chastity, & virginity are often used interchangeably, but they aren't the same. Virginity is a physical condition; technically it means you never had sexual intercourse. Chastity is more a state of mind or an attitude of being free of sexual sin, not having sexual activity outside marriage or being overly preoccupied with sex, & applies to more than just a specific set of body parts. Virtue is even broader. I think of virtue, integrity, & moral righteousness as similar things. It can include not only chastity but also honesty, fairness, kindness, & the other traits we associate with our Savior & Father.

You can "lose" your virginity but still be chaste, such as someone who is raped & has no control over what was done to her/him. You can retain your virginity but not your chastity; we've all heard of "technical virgins" & know that all it means is Part A has not yet been attached to Part B, but Part A, Part B, & all the other parts have been everywhere else. Someone who is not a virgin, & perhaps not even entirely chaste, can still have other virtuous qualities that make them a good person.

As for "losing" one's chastity or virtue, I have to take exception to those terms too. One can lose one's virginity (IOW, have it taken away)--and one can also give it up. But chastity & virtue cannot be lost & no one can take them away, because they are personal characteristics. They are part of us--or they are not. The only way we "lose" them is to voluntarily let go of them.

[Hemidakota]

I was trying to be humorous Hemi. Said tongue in cheek.

I know...I am glad I am not her parent.

[Dr T]

Sin against the Holy Ghost is one who receives the FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD and reject its later through sins and then fights against the church, the gospel, and the Godhead.

From where do u extrapolate all that sir? Thanks :)

[Hemidakota]

My own book: "The Second Comforter, Jesus the Christ". Referencing the whole notion how Joseph Smith received the fullness and from servant to being called a 'friend' by the Savior. There is more that links to biblical references, LDS links, and first-hand experiences of those who are witnesses.

Later I found out the Denver Snuffin wrote the same material and already published his works. At that point, it was not needed to publish the material. :)

[bytor2112]

Saul went about trying to destroy the Church. He repented and became Paul the Apostle.

A boozing, gambling, promiscous man repents and realizes the complete change of heart that comes from availing oneself of the atoning sacrifice of Christ. He sets his shoulder to the wheel with all his might. He may be bishop some day.

A prostitute reforms, repents, and puts her old life behind her. But she will never be anything more than a "former prostitute" - carrying that taint throughout her life.

It just doesn't seem right.

I hear what your saying......the prostitute can be as clean as anyone else in the Lord's eyes through repentance. But, will she ever feel clean? Will she ever feel innocent and virtuous? I hope so, but that's my point, can one ever truly forget transgressions and feel as though they never happened?

[bytor2112]

From where do u extrapolate all that sir? Thanks :)

Matt. 12: 31

31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Alma 39: 6

6 For behold, if ye deny the Holy Ghost when it once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny it, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness; yea, I say unto you, my son, that it is not easy for him to obtain a forgiveness.

Edited January 22, 2009 by bytor2112

[Hemidakota]

One of many references....thanks

[lilered]

Should she pay tithing?

[Moksha]

I'm ashamed to see she is from San Diego. Oh the horror of it. (Okay in case you don't understand my comment..my favorite city and always my home town)

You are right. To quote Adrian Monk, "The only way they can fix it now would be to burn it down and build a new clean city". Wonder how high the e-bay arsonists would bid for the right to do this?

[sensibility]

Virtue, chastity, and virginity. I found this little gem a while ago on another board, and I read it often. What do you folks think about it?

I like that quote a lot. We have such a cultural fixation on virginity that it stuns me sometimes. Virginity is not equal to chastity; you can be a virgin and still be unchaste. You can be a non-virgin and still be chaste. (Keep in mind that 99.999% of married people are non-virgins too. All their sexual expression may have been within marriage--but they aren't virgins. If virginity is equal to chastity or virtue, then, well, most married people are unchaste and unvirtuous. That's an obviously ridiculous conclusion, but it's the necessary one if you equate virginity to chastity or virtue)

The Atonement can heal and absolve people of almost any sin; sexual sins are absolutely included, especially if the person isn't a member when the sins occurred. When God has forgiven a sin, then a person has their virtue back. It's impossible to reclaim virginity, but virginity doesn't actually matter at /all/ once God has forgiven the sin. Zero. Not even a tiny bit. In terms of someone's personal worthiness, it's as though the sin had never occurred. That's what the Atonement means.

I think everyone struggles to internalize that truth, but it's nonetheless true. We can never undo any sin--I've tried, and it turns out that ctrl-Z doesn't work in realspace--but we can be made as clean as though it had never happened.

It's harder to repent of sexual sin. Sexual sin can have more devestating consequences than other kinds of sin. But it can be completely, 100% forgiven, and God will remember it no more--and I think we have no right to remember it either (see Mosiah 26:31).

Is she doing something wrong? She sure is. Will she still be eligable to receive forgiveness and exaltation if she repents? Yes. Without question. Exactly as eligable as we are, because we're all sinners together. Remember that in the course of justice, none of us should see salvation.

[NeuroTypical]

When God has forgiven a sin, then a person has their virtue back. It's impossible to reclaim virginity, but virginity doesn't actually matter at /all/ once God has forgiven the sin. Zero. Not even a tiny bit. In terms of someone's personal worthiness, it's as though the sin had never occurred. That's what the Atonement means.

That's put very well, thanks!

I know more than one struggling saint who seeks to believe and internalize this. And I know probably over a dozen former saints who somehow have ended up learning the exact opposite at church and in their LDS families. They figure "if the mormon god will never get over it, why should I".

[BenRaines]

Do I understand the rationalization here that "Oh this is no big deal, she can repent, what is everyone so uptight about it is just her virginity" Is that what I am reading or am I totally misunderstanding?

Ben Raines

[StallionMcBeastly]

Her sister was a prostitute, too.

This sickens me. It further proves the demoralization of our society. What kind of pervert would bid on it? I guarantee she will continue to whore herself - it's hard to break away from making money that easily.

Does she not think of the future? What person would want her to be their wife, or the mother of their children?