I hadn't been to a church dance for a while.....

[WillowTheWhisp]

Mainly due to the fact that church dances tend to be held at the Stake Centre which it is difficult for me to reach by public transport and lifts from others are hard to come by, plus not having a partner for several years I have not been to a church dance for quite a while. I remember in the olden days when I used to go with my late husband to a Gold and Green Ball that it was a pleasant, enjoyable, formal dance where people did the waltz and the quickstep, maybe an odd square dance or barn dance here and there.

I was taken by surprise this weekend when our Stake had its first ever Rose Prom. My teenage daughters were both being 'presented' at this Rose Prom by my 'new' husband, their step-father (even though one is 17 a she hadn't been to one before she was still included) and mothers were also invited to attend. The girls were encouraged to dress formally and both of mine chose to wear ball gowns, one which was home made and of suitable standard and one which we adapted to church standard. Fathers were encouraged to wear formal attire. I expected something rather refined and resembling a ball. The girls were brought through a rose arch by the fathers and there followed a waltz where fathers danced with their daughters. My husband shared his time between the two.

However, there then followed a bit of a barn dance and a DJ disco with music blaring so loudly it was impossible to hold a conversation for the remainder of the evening and the dancing was nothing more than boys and girls jumping up and down and moving erotically. When I asked my eldest daughter (who has been to a few church dances) if this was normal she tells me that it is, even at a Gold and Green Ball. I was amazed. I really must be old. In my day such dancing would have been frowned upon and most of the music (with dubious lyrics such as "I kissed a girl and I liked it.") would certainly not have been played on church premises. Is this now the normal standard for church dances elsewhere?

I was also quite shocked at the dress standard of some of the young ladies (particularly in view of the fact that a non-member 12 year old had been reduced to tears at a Youth Activity in our Ward for wearing a dress which had been deemed too short) There were several girls wearing dresses a good 6 inches above the knee. There were off the shoulder, strapless, backless, low-cut and sleevless dresses with just a loose 'stole' draped around the shoulders. This was an activity supported by our Stake Presidency and yet the Stake President had supported our Bishop in his condemnation of the girl in our ward. I cannot understand the double standards here.

One of my girls had a dress which in itself was sleevless but she wore a little bolero top over it and I made sure she pinned it together so that it could not move and show any of her upper back or armpits. I had worried that it might be considered inappropriate even at that following the strictness of our Bishop's recent decision, and yet there were other girls jumping about in these dances in low cut dresses with their bosoms bouncing up and down and the loosly worn wraps over sleeveless backless dresses moving up around there necks to reveal large areas of bare flesh. Nothing was said to any of these girls who were far less modestly dressed than the sobbing 12 year old had been. They were allowed to continue in their 'dancing'. The one which shocked me most was a pale pink corset affair coupled with a net 'skirt' which just looked like she was in her underwear and had forgotten to get fully dressed. My non-member husband remarked upon it and the fact that with some of the girls he didn't know where to look as he was embarassed to look at them.

Is this the usual dress for Church dances now? And is this the normal music for Church dances in other Stakes and in other countries? Quite apart from anything else I came away with a pounding headache and it will be a long time before anyone could persuade me to attend another such event.

Edited March 16, 2009 by WillowTheWhisp
spelling correction

[daenvgiell]

These are all the reasons that I do not like going to church dances, in my opinion, if the dresses aren't church standard they shouldn't be allowed in, I also don't know how it can be called a ball, or a dance when all they do is side step and bop on the spot, if I wanted to dance like that I would go to a club. I have to say that it's the same here in Australia, and I am not at all impressed by it. Sad to say, but I am ashamed of the standards of the music, clothing and style which people dance, I don't really feel like going to them.

[WillowTheWhisp]

How have standards fallen so much in just a few years since I last went to a church ball?

[daenvgiell]

I don't know, but something needs to be done about it! I want it to go back to the way it was when my parents were YSA

[WillowTheWhisp]

It would be lovely wouldn't it?

My girls want to go to EFY this summer. It's a residential week long event which will cost us over £550 which is a lot of money in this present economic climate but I'd expect they would be living by church standards so maybe worth doing without things so they can go. Now I'm kinda wondering.

[talisyn]

Wow that's a terrible experience! Someone really dropped the ball on this one (pun not intended). Here in the hinterlands the dress code is strictly enforced and while the music is usually pop that Kate Perry song would not have been played, nor would any others with questionable lyrics. I love what the wards out here do about the girls' dresses. The Sunday after prom or any other huge dance the guys and girls wear the clothes they wore to the dance, so basically any dress they chose has to be chapel-worthy.

That's terrible though, about the poor 12 year old girl. This sweet spirit, a daughter of Heavenly Father, reduced to tears by people who should know better? The fact that she's a non-member makes it even worse. This incident has the potential of coloring not just her perception of the LDS church, but her family's and future children's views as well. I hope steps were taken to help her feel better.

[Gwen]

i don't think that is common everywhere for church dances. it is up to each stake to enforce church rules and as you point out some do not do that very well. when i was in the youth program such would not have been allowed. when i was stake ysa rep i would not have hesitated to ask ppl who were dressed or dancing inappropriately to leave. that being said i also heard horrible stories from ppl that went to dances where it was not enforced.

as for the 12 yr old girl, i would go to the stake pres and bishop about my concern. making both concerns very clear. that i found the dance to be shameful and the hypocricy that i found after trying to console a yw who was very hurt. get a for streangth of youth pamplet (the large one not the pocket version) and make yourself versed with it before meeting with the bishop or stake pres. find your opinions in the words of the most recent prophet that has said it.... if you can make your comments come from them they can't argue with you.

[NeuroTypical]

My first immediate thought, is that the church in your area is really failing that 12 yr old girl. If she found out about this dance, she would be totally justified before God in calling us a bunch of d*mn*d hypocrites. This is a serious problem, and if I were in that ward, I'd seriously consider going on as much a crusade as necessary in order to correct this state of affairs.

Willow, I would make this an issue. A quiet one at first, bringing things up to Bishop. Then Stake President. If that didn't resolve anything, I'd get louder. I'd go to the area authority. I'd start talking publicly about the situation. Should all the normal channels not work, I might even consider statements that would throw a spotlight on the organizers of this dance which might shame them.

Now, that said, this does NOT happen everywhere in the church. I haven't been to any of our youth dances, but I would hear the Bishopric discuss them while I was an Executive Seceretary. They went out of their way to make sure all youth had a dance card and an interview about modesty and appropriate behavior - even visiting nonmember kids. They often had a story to tell about how they would make a kid go home and put on more clothes, or end up kicking a kid out after several warnings about their inappropriate dancing.

This crap shouldn't fly in our church.

LM

[Elgama]

the music i kind of understand think the chaperones tend not to listen to it, but the dress I agree I would be writing to my Stake President or speaking to him.

-Charley

[Snow]

Report from Southern California:

Standards seem to be holding here.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Willow, I would make this an issue. A quiet one at first, bringing things up to Bishop. Then Stake President. If that didn't resolve anything, I'd get louder. I'd go to the area authority. I'd start talking publicly about the situation. Should all the normal channels not work, I might even consider statements that would throw a spotlight on the organizers of this dance which might shame them.

I dont think right now I have the strength to do that. I'm in a very small minority here and not very good at bringing things to the Bishop. I just end up feeling like I'm wrong because no-one else feels the same. I am too spiritually weak right now to cope with that.

At least I'm glad to hear it isn't normal throughout the world.

[Michael_Newman]

How have standards fallen so much in just a few years since I last went to a church ball?

The youth in past years were required to meet with their priesthood leader and obtain a dance card, which represented what church standards were to be met. This process has ceased in many areas, leaving the dances open.

As for the loud music, I preferred the dances with live bands. The area I participated in was quite large, and there were weekly dances at some ward building through the vast area. A live band takes breaks, which allow for conversations.

Michael

[pam]

Yep even as long ago as when I was a teenager, we were required to have a dance card. We also had live bands. We had pretty much stuck with one band throughout all the stakes where I lived as they were not only good...but played appropriate music.

[LolaBella]

No offense, but it is 2009. Live bands are not what teenagers nowadays, or even 20 somethings and beyond want to listen to. My familys complain when they have these stupid 'barn-dances' at the chapel. Why would I want to go to that?! I would want to go and have a proper dance to up-to-date music. Teenagers would just think these suggestions old fashioned which they are and might not want to come at all.

When I went to YSA dances, they used to have the clothes police on the door. The woman was like a little Hitler and it really put me off going to dances knowing I was being judged and scrutinised for what I was wearing by a woman who didn't know me. I could have been digging wells in Africa the previous week for all she knew, but all she was worried about was sternly telling me my top was too low. I thought we weren't supposed to judge as members???

People really need to get over it.

Edited March 17, 2009 by LolaBella

[NeuroTypical]

I thought we weren't supposed to judge as members???

Of course we're supposed to judge righteous judgements. Here's an article that should help:

“Judge Not” and Judging By Elder Dallin H. Oaks

I'm not quite ready just yet to "just get over it" and accept inappropriate sexual content at a church dance. Not just yet.

LM

[GingerGolden]

I always enjoyed going to the church dances, of course this was back in the early to mid 80's.

We always had a wonderful time!

I love to dance, and enjoy many of them, but I do have to say I do love a good polka!

What fun!

I was really looking forward to attending more of them now.

I am a bit disappointed to hear that in some areas the quality of the dance has fallen somewhat.

I hope this area has good quality dances for us to enjoy!

[talisyn]

The kids should take responsibility for their clothing choices. Yes I know youth is a time of testing boundaries and stuff. Just tell them, 'You wanna push boundaries and be yourself, you can read Karl Marx while staying home'.

There should be some places that are safe for the kids. Places where they don't have to worry about what the world thinks. When my daughter is old enough to go to these dances (5 years, heaven help me) she may be wearing black lipstick and goth clothes, but they will be church standards

[Just_A_Guy]

My girls want to go to EFY this summer. It's a residential week long event which will cost us over £550 which is a lot of money in this present economic climate but I'd expect they would be living by church standards so maybe worth doing without things so they can go. Now I'm kinda wondering.

EFY is administered by the Church Educational System--in other words, paid employees of Salt Lake. I doubt they'd be as lax as your local stake leadership seems to have been (out of curiosity, where are your girls planning to attend EFY?)

I attended EFY at BYU for three years in the mid nineties, and both dress and behavior standards were rigidly enforced (not that we were fox-trotting or anything; but moshing and grinding were certainly not tolerated). Music is now, as it was in the sixties and seventies, a mixed bag.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Just_A_Guy

[Moksha]

I really must be old. In my day such dancing would have been frowned upon and most of the music (with dubious lyrics such as "I kissed a girl and I liked it.") would certainly not have been played on church premises. Is this now the normal standard for church dances elsewhere?

Hey Willow, do you remember this song:

When I was seventeen

it was a very good year.

It was a very good year for small town girls

and soft summer nights -

We'de hide from the lights -

on the village green,

when I was seventeen.

But now the days grow short,

I'm in the autumn of my years

now I think of my life as vintage wine

from fine old kegs

from the brim to the dregs.

And it poured sweet and clear.

It was a very good year.

Things have indeed changed in so many ways.

Of course we're supposed to judge righteous judgements. Here's an article that should help:

“Judge Not” and Judging By Elder Dallin H. Oaks

More changes after Jesus' time. Change must be constant.

:)