Can I get my LDS neighbors to be kind?

[Rosemerry]

Hello, I'm not a Mormon, and this is not a question about Mormonism. I just happen to live next to a man, wife, and 3 little children who are active in the LDS church. They have a nice new home and are attractive, friendly, seem happy.

EXCEPT they have a little pet dog who lives alone in the back yard on a rope.

Not licensed, never taken for walks, left out for 10-12 hours in freezing weather (no dog house.) Also left out in summer heat (this is Salt Lake City Utah) with green warm water to drink. Ignored by kids and parents. (The kids are learning that this is ok!!)

I have spoken to them several times, nicely and not so nicely.

Is there anything specifically about animals in the Church teaching that might get them to see? To me, animal neglect / abuse is just as bad as child neglect/abuse. Mean is mean, after all. Any suggestions? Would peer pressure from other Mormons help?

Thanks,

Rose

[LittleWyvern]

I think a better idea would be to call the local animal shelter with your concerns. They're probably well-equipped to deal with claims of animal abuse.

[Madriglace]

I think a better idea would be to call the local animal shelter with your concerns. They're probably well-equipped to deal with claims of animal abuse.

Agreed ... call animal control. They will come out and check out the situation and handle it. To bad the owners can't be tied out and see how they like it.

[Just_A_Guy]

There are some teachings out there about not being excessively cruel to animals, but--with all due respect to Rosemerry--I don't think they'll do much good here. Mormons tend to bristle at non-Mormons explaining Mormon doctrine to them, even if the non-Mormon acts with the best of intentions.

I'm with Little Wyvern and Madriglace . . . Animal Control is probably your best bet here. Although, if I may be blunt, keeping animals outside in all seasons is not exactly abnormal behavior in Utah. If the dog is barking to the point where it's becoming a nuisance to you and the other neighbors, your local police department may be willing to step in.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Just_A_Guy

[talisyn]

You could get a soft-covered Book of Mormon, the kind the missionaries give out, roll it up, and bop them on the nose with it

lol

Video some of what you see and put it on youtube?

Probably best to call animal control. Not as much fun perhaps, but prob a lot more effective.

[Madriglace]

Could the little dog just sort of "run away" ?

[DigitalShadow]

I'm with Little Wyvern and Madriglace . . . Animal Control is probably your best bet here. Although, if I may be blunt, keeping animals outside in all seasons is not exactly abnormal behavior in Utah. If the dog is barking to the point where it's becoming a nuisance to you and the other neighbors, your local police department may be willing to step in.

My neighbor's dogs either bark or yelp nearly all day and night long, I had no idea you could call the cops for something like that. Some people I wonder why they even have dogs, my neighbors just keep them in a cage outside all day and night.

[Just_A_Guy]

Depends on local ordinances, DS. But most places I've lived (in CA and UT) had a noise ordinance that included dogs barking.

Heck, in Utah County, a close relative of mine got hauled into court on a cat-at-large complaint. (Hilarity ensued. The judge hadn't even known the local leash ordinance existed; he turned to the court clerk and basically said "what do we do now?")

Edited April 17, 2009 by Just_A_Guy

[Rosemerry]

Haha talisyn--great suggestion :)

Unfortunately, Animal Control standards are not Humane Society standards. This dog's life is just this side of legal. The dog survives, therefore you are not harming the dog.

The stress and anxiety of separation (dogs are pack animals--the human family is the dog's "pack") can't be measured like injuries/ribs showing from hunger.

I suppose what I want is to make them CARE, and "..teachings...about not being excessively cruel" probably won't do it.

Barking is NOT a problem--the dog is silent, listless.

Silly of me, hoping for a magic Mormon text or something. I certainly appreciate all these answers coming so quickly!

[lincolnhyde]

Actually, I think you might be able to call the Humane Society - their rules require that shelter be available at all times, and they can remove animals if the conditions aren't appropriate.

[cullenh]

Oh man when I hear about situations like that when it comes to animals weather non members or members as owners it get my blood boiling!!!!!!!!!!!! Please do the dog a favor and call the animal shelter or animal control and it can be done with out telling them who is registering the complaint and let them deal with it because that is their job! Again please for the dogs sake call !!!

[Vort]

Hello, I'm not a Mormon, and this is not a question about Mormonism. I just happen to live next to a man, wife, and 3 little children who are active in the LDS church. They have a nice new home and are attractive, friendly, seem happy.

EXCEPT they have a little pet dog who lives alone in the back yard on a rope.

You've been given some very good advice already, I think. I will have little to add except an external viewpoint on the situation, for whatever it's worth to you.

Not licensed, never taken for walks, left out for 10-12 hours in freezing weather (no dog house.) Also left out in summer heat (this is Salt Lake City Utah) with green warm water to drink.

I find it difficult to believe this is legal. You should at least call.

I have spoken to them several times, nicely and not so nicely. Is there anything specifically about animals in the Church teaching that might get them to see?

D&C 49:21 "And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need."

But honestly, I doubt it will change their minds any. Quoting scriptures to them will probably only make things worse.

To me, animal neglect / abuse is just as bad as child neglect/abuse.

No Mormons, and vanishingly few non-Mormons, will agree with you on this point. Probably best to keep it to yourself. If someone suggested to me that the value of a dog's life and well-being were equal to my children's, I would laugh at them and subsequently ignore them.

Any suggestions? Would peer pressure from other Mormons help?

Maybe, but it would be problematic to recruit other Mormons to pressure them. In the end, it would probably do more harm than good.

Good luck, Rose.

[Jim108]

I have many LDS neighbors and I can assure you this has nothing to do with this or any religion. It is however a difference of opinion of how a dog should be treated. I agree with you. Its not a great situation. Tell them you will call the authorities if they do not fix the problem in a given time. This will let them know you are serious. I hope you can learn to forgive and love each other. Good luck, Jim

[Moksha]

I have many LDS neighbors and I can assure you this has nothing to do with this or any religion. It is however a difference of opinion of how a dog should be treated. I agree with you. Its not a great situation. Tell them you will call the authorities if they do not fix the problem in a given time. This will let them know you are serious. I hope you can learn to forgive and love each other. Good luck, Jim

I was thinking the same thing and this is great advice. :)

[Just_A_Guy]

Here is Utah's cruelty to animals statute.

Cities in Utah are also empowered to make and enforce their own animal cruelty statutes. If you live in Salt Lake City itself (as opposed to one of the outlying cities), I'd be willing to bet that they have a beefed-up (vegans will please pardon the pun) local ordinance on animal cruelty--politically it's a pretty liberal city.

[LDSVALLEY]

Members of the church are all individuals and different. One member I know of is only feeding their young dog raw meat because they are against what is in dog food. With very very young children in the home this terrifies me. Because our family is very active we decided against a dog and have a large cat instead.

Not everything members do is based on Mormonism, many things each day are based on personal preference and the way we were raised as individuals. The best way to deal with the situation you find is what was said contact the appropriate authorities. We had to do that here over someone who had rabbits and decided it was cruel to keep them in a cage and let them roam free in the woods, which included the road. It actually took two visits by animal control but after a nice fine the second time they smartened up.

[Rosemerry]

Of course in no way is this a religion-related situation, I just thought since they ARE active in their church I might find a religion-related solution!

I asked specifically: a dog outside in 32 degrees for 6 hours-- this is legal. (No food, no shelter, just out, a snowy day.) Dogs are WAY tougher than we are. But I'm thinking of the animal's comfort, not its ability to withstand. This is a 40 pound, short haired, zero body fat dog.

Vort--I would value the life of a person over the life of an animal, yes, but

deliberately causing an animal OR human to suffer

is equal evil! Robbing a rich person is just as bad as robbing a poor person.

I tried Animal Control already, but thinking now of going back.

[prisonchaplain]

Thou shalt not treat dogs like outdoor statuary - 1 Prisonchaplain 14:7. It's not a strictly LDS text, but it does appear at a well-known pro-LDS website. :-)

[Wingnut]

Even if Animal Control won't do anything, doesn't the law require that the dog be licensed?

[Rosemerry]

prisonchaplain, thank you for the perfect phrase!

wingnut, yes, they were told (by Animal Control) 18 days ago they must license the dog. Still waiting. If Animal Control doesn't do their job and follow up, I will. 3 weeks is plenty of time.

Just_A_Guy-- yes, my local laws differ from the state and Salt Lake statutes, but still, "shelter" simply means "appropriate shelter" and "extreme weather" is an opinion, not a temperature. Humane Society recommends regular walks, but the LAW says it's perfectly legal to keep a dog tied up 24/7.

Again, I'm thinking of the dog's quality of life & comfort. I know they're not starving or beating it. The neighbors think it's normal animal treatment--probably because they were raised that way.

I'm very glad the weather is improving at least.

[RachelleDrew]

When you spoke with them about the dog, what did they say? How did they react?

[Rosemerry]

Well, the situation has escalated. (Like situations do!) At first they were apologetic and humble and matter-of-fact--and so was I. But nothing changed -- so I got grumpier and more accusatory and they got a little defiant and cool towards me. But when Animal Control got involved communication stopped--the dog's rope is shorter, and has been moved to the other side of their house, no longer easily visible.

Edit--

1. I see now I should have used the "Advice" column for my sort of question.

2. The title I chose for this thread could be taken as quite insulting--sorry I didn't word it more carefully!

3. I've been sampling the site all over--there are some very very funny very very wise people here.

Edited April 18, 2009 by Rosemerry
Editing to add 3 observations I've made since joining these forums (yesterday).

[prospectmom]

I really feel for you ..... hard situation..... no advice just my prayers and support

[HEthePrimate]

This article by Gerald Jones, in the August 1972 Ensign, is called "The Gospel and Animals," and you can read it online here: LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Gospel and Animals

Jones quotes a number of scriptures (the Bible is big on kindness to animals), and a number of modern-day prophets on the subject. Hope this is helpful!

HEP

[azaware]

With all due respect to Rosemerry. There could have been some other situation to the problem, which we only have one side of the story. I was wondering is there a fence around there back yard? Have you tried to buy a doghouse for the dog? Or even bought the dog. Should they give up the dog to the pound? We know what would most likely happen to the dog at the pound.