Can someone please be honest with me?

[Guest lalaonegin]

It's probably worth pointing out that President David O. McKay explicitly prayed for permission to remove the ban--sometime in the late 1950s, if I remember correctly. Permission was denied.

At some point in the late 50's, President McKay asked Church archivists to locate the original prophecy, they couldn't. It was then decided by President McKay that even though it appeared that the original action was not inspired by revelation, they would commence to pray to HF for a revelation to reverse it.

That revelation came in 1978.

[bmy-]

Repeatedly throughout the scriptures, especially Doctrine and Covenants, comes the command to "Say nothing but repentance unto this generation; keep my commandments, and assist to bring forth my work, according to my commandments, and you shall be blessed." (D&C 6:9) Missionaries are to teach the basic principles of the Gospel. They are not supposed to teach "the tough issues." Personally, I think a big reason for that is that there aren't clear answers to "the tough issues" so the answers given by missionaries won't be universal. Heck, take a look around this board and tell me if you can find a cut-and-dry answer on what tea is and isn't allowed by the Word of Wisdom, or whether or not members are allowed to drink caffeine. The missionaries teach the basics, not the pet doctrines/

In order to teach 'repentance' to a broader audience.. being able to adequately answer the tough questions should be mandatory. This Church seems to severely underestimate people. Which is ironic.. given that this Church is built on the principle that every human on this planet of the race of God.

Missionaries should inform their audiences that what they say is not 'officially' doctrine. But they should demonstrate the ability to think for themselves.. the ability to think critically. Remove the brainwashed label and many many doors will open.

I can't begin to express how excited I was when I met my first missionary who had considered these issues. We talked for hours about these topics. I would challenge him.. and he would challenge me. Net result was my baptism.

I had a missionary who did not know that the Church teaches the plurality of Gods. He was either lying or woefully ignorant.

[KeithLBrown]

Lovely,

I too am a Black member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I was baptized a little over 11 years ago (10 March 1998) in Reykjavik Iceland while serving on active duty with the United States Navy.

In the 11 years that I have been a member, I can honestly say that I have felt nothing less than a welcoming spirit and love from my Brothers and Sisters. I have tremendously enjoyed the blessings of the many callings that I have had thus far to include serving as First and Second Counselor in the Bishopric of the ward that I attend and now as High Priest Group Leader. In many ways I feel more at home and at peace in the LDS Church than I did in the Baptist Church (and please understand I am not in any way putting down the Baptist Church).

Actually, it was not until a couple of months ago when I was given the assignment by my Stake Presidency to conduct a Fireside on the 1978 Revelation on the Priesthood, that I actually took a keen interest in the subject. It is a bit ironic I suppose, as I had purchased a book several years before being baptized by Brother Joseph Freeman (the first Black to receive the Priesthood after the 1978 Revelation) that deals with some of the same questions and concerns that you have. Interestingly enough, the title of the book is "In The Lord's Due Time". In explaining the subject of the Priesthood ban, I believe those 5 words are very significant.

During the course of my research for the Fireside that I conducted one of the main points that I came across was the fact that there has never been any official statement made by the Church as to why the ban ever occurred in the first place. From what I was able to glean from my research, there were a couple of things in particular that may have played a factor in the ban taking place and they are the issue of slavery and the persecutions that the Church was already facing at the time of the ban. Now, I am not saying that these reasons are an excuse for the ban taking place, but research shows that they very well may have been key factors.

Please keep in mind as I pointed out during the presentation that there were Blacks that held the Priesthood prior to the ban. One person in particular that very few people know about was Elijah Able who was ordained by the Prophet Joseph Smith himself. Also, keep in mind that part of the reason for the early persecution of the Church was because of the slave issue and the fact that the Church was not in support of slavery, although, research will show that there were some members that owned slaves. I believe that someone has made a comment on this topic that the issue of the Priesthood ban was based more on a prejudice than any factual reasoning. Someone even pointed out during the Fireside that I gave that perhaps the Church was not fully ready at that time to fully accept those of darker skin into Priesthood positions. Again, we are talking speculations. We honestly don't know the reasoning.

It is also interesting to point out, and extremely important to note, that the Priesthood ban was not based on skin color alone. The decision for denying a Brother the Priesthood aside from being unworthy, was based more on his lineage than his skin color. Any male that was found to be from African lineage was denied the Priesthood. That means, a blond hair, blue eye, white male could have possibly been denied the Priesthood as well, as did happen in some cases, if it was determined that there was African lineage in his family line.

The truly amazing thing is that even during the period of the Priesthood ban there were many people of color who remained true and faithful to the Gospel. Even though they could not hold the Priesthood, they were still able to hold callings in the Church. I admire the Brothers and Sisters that were determined to press forward with the steadfast hope that one day, in the Lord's due time, the ban would be lifted, and every worthy male would be allowed to obtain the Priesthood and enjoy the full blessings thereof. That blessed day came in June 1978.

I am truly thankful and blessed to be counted among the members of the Lord's True Church - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I testify that I know for a surety that I am exactly where the Lord would have me to be, doing exactly what he would have me to do at this time. Whatever the reasons were for the Priesthood ban are known to the Lord. I choose to believe that he allowed the ban to occur for a time and a purpose known only to Him. Perhaps it was a time of learning and preparation for what was yet to come as the Church has experienced tremendous growth in many parts of the world since the 1978 Revelation. I testify that this is the Lord's Church and all things have been, are being, and will be done according to His purpose and plan, and in His due time. The events that took place did indeed happen. We cannot deny that. But, we cannot not let the past stop us from pressing forward by faith. God our Eternal Father lives and Jesus is the Christ.

[Guest Lovely12]

Thank you, Keith, for sharing your testimony with me. I also find your post very helpful. You have given me new things to ponder. Thank you.

[talisyn]

Perhaps.. this is the problem. Our missionaries simply don't know enough. They know the plan of salvation like the back of their hands.. but it seems to me (in general) that they have little to no knowledge of the tough issues.

Are you saying the plan of salvation is easy? 'Cause if it's easy I wanna know why I do so miserably at it

My brother-in-law played football at BYU-Idaho back when it was Rick's college. He wasn't a member then and he had some issues with some totally clueless people who literally had never met a black man before and would do stuff like play with his hair (idk how he could be so polite, I can only guess those were really really cute girls ). Fortunately he joined the Church, married my sister, and is a very happy priesthood holder, despite some things prophets have said in the past.

Point to my story is, prophets are not perfect, people are not perfect, God is perfect, but sometimes we really have no clue why things are the way they are or were. I'm glad you have a strong testimony, Lovely. You sound like exactly the kind of woman we need in the Church. Personal revelation can really carry us when the straight and narrow path seems to have some holes in it.

[Guest Lovely12]

Thank you, Talisyn. You are very kind and your sweet words really touched me.

Me and my family have had many members want to play/feel/touch our hair, too. I was never offended. I knew they were curious and just wanted to learn about us. Some members confessed to us that they had never really been around blacks before and they were very sweet in wanting to know about our culture.

[Justice]

Lovely, these things have never made sense to me either. I am not black, but I want you to know that I have struggled with things like this also, although I'm sure no where near the level you have. Just because I am not black doesn't mean I don't take issue with this.

I attended Jr. High school and part of High School in Vallejo, CA. I was baptized when I was 8, and my parents went to church until I was about 12. I continued going until I was about 16. I started going back about age 22. When I attended church in Vallejo the town and school were around 50% black. Needless to say, the church membership did not reflect this percentage. I didn't think much of it when I was younger, in fact, I didn't even realize that was the case until later. One of my best friends was black. He came to church with me nearly every week because he loved the people. I knew he struggled with being baptized, but I really didn't understand why. I guess I figured there was a doctrine he didn't agre with, but didn't know what.

My family moved to Oklahoma when I was 16. My good friend flew out from CA to stay with us for a couple weeks. It turned into a month. Then it turned out he lived with us during our Sr. year in high school and went to school with me and lived in my room with me. We had many deep discussions, but the reason he never got baptized never came up.

He went home after we graduated. 25 years later (just a couple of months ago) he called me on the phone. It was so good to hear from him. His parents moved to Arizona while he was living with us, so I lost his number. He made the trip out to see me, my brother, and my parents. He came and stayed with my family for a week before he went home. He loved meeting my wife and kids and we relived some very fond memories.

It was then he told me why he could not get baptized. He said it was because he could not get past the race issue.

We studied the issue when he was here with me. He said the only thing that made sense to him was when he realized that only certain "tribes" of Israel were allowed to hold certain rights to the Priesthood. Some tribes, even though they had the same ancestory, were not allowed to hold the same Priesthood as other tribes. He said this line of thinking would move the issue away from race and move it more toward tribe. He said if many of the black people today were descendants of a certain tribe (which is the case) it would make more sense to him.

Oddly enough, he's a minister now for another church, he says largely due to the fact that I took him to the "Mormon Church" all those years. He said he even mentioned me in many of his sermons. :)

Lovely, I want you to know that I love you. Some people have black skin, some have white skin, and all shades in between. We cannot escape it. That does not mean, however, that we can't embrace each other's culture and heritage and love each other. Your skin color and heritage are just as important to me as mine. You ARE a child of God, and judging by your posts here, a very intelligent and beautiful daughter of God. I have no doubt He loves you, and I have no doubt He will help you through this.

I just wanted to offer you my support.

One thing to consider, also, is I believe issues of race can be perpetuated by Satan to bring hatred, division, and even confusion. It can also be a great source of pride to people of all races. If he can use our skin color or race against us in any way, be certain that he will. He will try to lead us astray in any way he can. Don't let him lead you astray because of this.

It sounds like you are winning the struggle. Hang in there, and I'll pray for you.

Edited June 6, 2009 by Justice

[FunkyTown]

I had a missionary who did not know that the Church teaches the plurality of Gods. He was either lying or woefully ignorant.

That's not exactly fair, Bmy. Missionaries come in all shapes and stripes. Most are young and inexperienced. They probably concentrate mostly on the gospel essentials.

And that missionary had a companion. Didn't his companion correct him? If you ambush a missionary with questions when he's alone, it's possible you'll get the wrong answer. Certainly a good reason to send them two or three at a time. :)

[Seanette]

Are you saying the plan of salvation is easy? 'Cause if it's easy I wanna know why I do so miserably at it

The theory is easy, the application is the hard part, at least for me.

[KeithLBrown]

Lovely,

There are three videos that I would personally recommend that you get and watch. All three are very well done and address the subject of Blacks in the Church / Blacks in the Scriptures in an easy to understand manner. In fact, I recommend these three videos to anyone who seeks a better understanding of the subject.

The videos are:

1. Nobody Knows: The Untold Story of Black Mormons (this video is produced by two of my friends, Margaret Blair Young and Darius Gray)

2. Blacks in the Scriptures (this video is co-authored by Marvin Perkins and Darius Gray). Subjects to include the following are discussed: Blacks in the Bible; Skin Color, Curses, Equality, and Blacks and the LDS Priesthood.

3. Pioneers of Africa - An Inspiring Story Of Those Who Paved The Way

(Please click on the titles to be taken to pages where you can obtain the videos)

Notes:

Marvin Perkins of Los Angeles, CA, is a 20-year convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Born and raised in Niagara Falls, NY, just 90 miles west of Palmyra, he had never heard of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints, or Mormons. Marvin is also an accomplished vocal recording artist. When one of his business associates wanted to come out to see him perform, this desire set off the missionary experience that would lead to his Baptism into the LDS Church, 3 months later. He currently serves as Co-Chair for Genesis Public Affairs. a calling out of Salt Lake City, though Marvin lives in Southern California. He teaches throughout the country on the Black and LDS issues. He also serves as a Temple Worker in the Los Angeles, CA Temple, and has represented the Church on numerous news articles, television and radio programs.

Darius Aidan Gray joined the LDS church in 1964, at a time when black members were not allowed to hold the priesthood and could not enjoy temple blessings. But a remarkable answer to prayer, "This is the restored gospel and you are to join," led him to put aside his strong aversion to the then- current policies and trust in God's goodness. The answer he received was so powerful that it has provided the grounding for his testimony ever since. And it had to be powerful to sustain him through the many challenges he has been called to go through in a life of service that has allowed him to advocate firsthand with prophets and apostles on issues affecting black Saints. He still affirms that his life is "blessed," that "God is in charge."

[susieSA]

Me and my family have had many members want to play/feel/touch our hair, too. I was never offended. I knew they were curious and just wanted to learn about us. Some members confessed to us that they had never really been around blacks before and they were very sweet in wanting to know about our culture.

Not to offend or anything..

But I find that really interesting... I had it the opposite way when going into township areas for Stake callings.

I also find it fascinating that people still think that blacks are so different to white, chinese, indians & coloureds.

I am curious to know how different an African American's culture is to an American.

[Guest Lovely12]

Justice, thank you for being so open minded and compassionate. Your words were extremely uplifting. I love you, too. Thank you so much for sharing your story with me. Words cannot describe how I felt after reading it. Thank you.

Keith, thank you for the links and references. I am actually about to read "One More River To Cross" by Darius Gray. I watched the "Blacks in the Scriptures" last week and was very impressed with the work these two men did. It is a two-disc video and I have not been able to watch disc 2 yet. yes, I hope others will look at it as well.

A friend of mine suggested that I contact brother Marvin Perkins, which I did via email. He immediately wrote me back and has given me his phone number to contact him. I plan to call him today.

Thank you, Keith, for truly caring and trying to help me with this issue.

[Guest Lovely12]

SusieSA, each culture has something unique about it. With Black Americans, it is our "way of life" and history here in America that makes us a unique group. We can understand eachother's joy, pain, acommplishments, ect. Much of this is expressed in our literature, art, music, etc. Our struggles and pain here in American are different than other cultures. We also have customs and traditions that are unique and dear to us. (My father-in-law couldn't wait to have me and his son "jump the broom" at our wedding to symbolize the new start of our life together.)

Black Americans have also suffered much through slavery, segregation, racism etc. Things are better, but unfortunately, racism is still here. Many of us take pride in our heritage and our ancestors that gave their lives so we could have a better life here.

I have it bad on both sides, because I am the ONLY Mormon in my family. I come from a family of Baptist. My uncles are pastors, deacons, etc. They are upset with me for joining the church. Some won't even speak to me. As you can see, I really am having a rough time with all of this.

Our strong faith in the Lord got us through all the horrible things of the past and continues to do so today. God is forever an important part of our lives. Which is why the things of the church have been so hurtful to me.

Also, in our culture we have expressions that only we understand. Have you ever heard, "He doesn't have sense enough to bell a buzzard?" or "you are cutting butter?" My grandmother used to say it often. (Along with many others.)

There was an older black woman that use to work with me a year ago (she as since passed away). During thunder storrms, she would get off the phone and run into a dark closet. My white friends did not understand this and would make fun of her. All the blacks understood.

I was raised by my great grandmother, the daughter of a "mulatto" slave. I am still blessed to have her here at 102 years old. Whenever it stormed, she would quickly turn off all lights, gather us in the living room, and we were not allowed to speak. She would pray with each strike of thunder and tell us that, "The Lord is doing His work." This was very sacred to her. I can still see the seriouness in her face as she prayed. If I tried to speak, she would gently hush me and remind me to be quiet as the Lord does his work. (Can you imagine how we felt in the hot summer with all fans and air conditioning turned off until the storm was over?) Those were the good ole days!

Many of the younger generation do not practice things like this, but I am just trying to give you an idea of just how we differ.

I think what has been so difficult for me is that people outside my culture really do not understand and so they get frustrated with me. To them it seems very simple. But, I have learned after talking to other Black LDS (and other minority groups) that many feel the way I do and some have gone inactive. It's too hard for many of us and we feel "safer" worshipping and being around our own kind.

I have a strong faith in God and the Love of Jesus Christ. My faith has gotten me through much. I believe if I can overcome this huge obstacle in my life, I will be able to help other blacks understand as well. I think God has a plan for me to shine my light on others and bring them to the gospel. This struggle I have is great, but I am certain it is meant to make my testimony stronger so that I can serve in the Lord's kingdom.

Thank you, SusieSa, for wanting to learn about me. I think it is great how our Heavenly father made us different so we can share good things with one another and learn from eachother.

Edited June 24, 2009 by Lovely12
grammar/additional info/clarity

[foreverafter]

How do I know what teachings from the prophets are true from God or what is from man?

Lovely,

It's all about having the Holy Spirit as your guide to teach you the real truth of all things. Only those who do & aren't deceived by all the falsehoods that abound in & out of the Church, will make it to the Celestial Kingdom. I have had to come to terms with this same question on another issue just as confusing. I have come to learn that Prophets are not infaliable & we are told by the Prophets that it is vital we pray about what the Prophet says to know if it is true or not & then IF we have this Spirit of Discernment we will not be lead astray. That puts alot of responsibility on each of us but that is the test of this life - to see who has the Spirit of Discernment & won't be deceived by wrong philosophies & who will.

But since both the wicked & the righteous & everyone in between usually feel they are right, it can be very trickly. Thus we need to make sure we have the right Spirit - "The Holy Spirit" guiding us & not the Adversary whispering deceptions that so many fall for cause they sound easier. Plus we judge our revelations against what the living Prophet especially, is saying to have 2 witnesses, the Spirit & the Prophet.

It has been thought by some that we are to be obedient to church leaders even when we feel they are wrong & if we do we will be blessed, that is not what the Prophets teach. While Heavenly Father might save us a few times while learning our errors in following wrong counsel, we are ultimately responsible to know if a leader is speaking truth or not to us & to only follow if what he asks of us or counsels us to do is right. If we follow wrong counsel we will have to suffer the consequences of that wrong counsel, so that we may learn to be wiser the next time. The only exception to this is the President of the Church. The Prophets have said that he is the only one who we should follow even if we feel he is wrong & we will be blessed & all will turn out. All others from Apostles on down we must make sure they speak the truth before we follow & the way to know is if what they say agrees with the Presidents of the Church & the Spirit within us. If any leader (Apostle, Stk. Pres., Bishop, etc.) says something that is not in agreement with the Presidents of the Church or the current President, then we are told to assume that is his opinion & to discard it & only follow what the President of the Church says.

I personally believe that the withholding of the Priesthood from the AA people was mostly, if not entirely because the majority of the white men in & out of the Church could not accept their black brothers as equals & thus to protect the Church from losing much of its membership or bring persecution down on the Church God had black men wait (which almost surely in the pre-existence they consented to this wait & will be blessed because of their patience with their brethern) til it was safer & enough white men repented & could accept the equality of their black brothers before he could bless the black people with the Priesthood. I believe in many cases black congregations were more humble than white & were very worthy but had to wait until their white brothers & sisters matured alittle in the Gospel. It is & was the same issue with women's equality, rights & station too & one that is still a difficult thing for many men even today.

Above all, your best answers to your questions will come straight from Heavenly Father when you take these questions to him. He will teach you all you desire to know, line upon line as you study what you can in the scriptures & what the Prophets have said & then ask him specific questions. He is your greatest teacher & you can be given understanding that few, if any, have on the subject.

Good luck in your searching & remember that the Church is true but none of us as members are perfect & Heavenly Father must use us imperfect mortals to bring about his Gospel upon the earth. And possession of the Holy Spirit is the vital key along with holding fast to our current Prophet's teachings (our iron rod) to know what is true & what is false in all our study & researching & learning. Oh, and I see that you homeschool your children so I know you are a smart & strong lady with the Spirit. You will find your answers, just keep praying & studing the scriptures, even if you don't find all your answers there, for just reading them opens your mind to additional revelation somehow, that usually comes later in the day when you are doing something else or in the early morning.

"By the power of the Spirit our eyes were opened and our understandings were enlightened, so as to see & understand the things of God." D&C 76:12

"For they that are wise and have received the truth and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide and have not been deceived, verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire but shall abide the day." D&C 45:57

"They are they who received the testimony of Jesus and ... by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins and receive the Holy Spirit...these are they whose bodies are Celestial." D&C 76:51,53,70.

"They who are of the Terrestrial...who are honorable men who were blinded by the craftiness of men....these are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus." D&C 76:71,75,79.

Edited June 6, 2009 by foreverafter

[Dravin]

I also find it fascinating that people still think that blacks are so different to white, chinese, indians & coloureds.

I think part of it is the sentiment of, "You just don't understand." usually this comes up in the context of racism and being discriminated (and truly, I have no idea what its like to be anything other than lily white in that context), but it seems to be accepted that I could never understand what its like to be a black/Chinese/Hispanic/Indian man, this must mean of course that we're really really different. You have stereotypes (TV sure doesn't help, I have little in common with a lot of the white people on TV let alone others) and fears of offense that play into it as well.

[KeithLBrown]

Lovely said:

"I was raised by my great grandmother, daughter of a "mulatto" slave. I am blessed to still have her here at the age of 102 years old. When it would thunder storm. She would turn off all electricity, gather us all into one room, and we would could not move or speak. The storm was "sacred" to her. She said it was the "Lord's work." I can still see the seriousness in her face as the thunder would strike. She would continuously pray out to the Lord. If I said one word, she would gently hush me, and remind me to be quiet during the Lord's work."

"Many of the younger generations do not practice these things, but I'm just trying to give you an idea of how we are different. It is the way we can relate to one another that others really cannot understand."

Thank you for your examples in your recent post. At 50 years of age I can look back and reflect upon some of the things that were said and done by the "older folk" when I was a boy that I really didn't understand, but I did learn to appreciate them.

My mother was the same as your great grandmother. Whenever a storm was coming up she would go around the house unplugging everything and lighting candles or oil lamps. She would have us all sit quietly in the living room until after the storm had passed. She too taught us that it was the Lord's work and we should have respect for His work by being silent until He was through. Even if a storm came up during the middle of the night, my mother would get up, unplug everything, and sit up until the storm had passed.

Young people today may think that is crazy, but it taught my brother, sisters, and I an important lesson in reverance and respect for the Lord.

[Guest Lovely12]

Keith, I literally laughed out loud reading your reponse! Isn't it wonderful that we have those memories? Young folks do think its crazy, but I tell you, the older generation is very wise in things and they were extremely faithful to the Lord. I am very grateful for my grandmother. Thank you, Keith!

[Moksha]

Lovely, I have tracked down answers for you. Let me preface these answers by noting that the Priesthood Ban was never based on sound reason or religion, but rather sprang from one man saying he heard it straight from Joseph Smith. This was perpetuated for around 150 years by what could best be referred to as a comedy of errors. Good news: The wrong has been righted.

Here are the answers you seek in detail: Blacks and the LDS Priesthood

This marvelous podcast features Darius Grey, Margaret Young and John Dehlin.

[Moksha]

I would like to think that had President McKay received a revelation ending the policy and then duly informed the Twelve, they would have fallen into line.

As it was, though, I seem to remember reading that President Kimball's raising the issue before the Quorum of the Twelve in 1978 was carefully timed to take advantage of the fact that one of the Quorum's most strident defenders of the ban (Mark E. Petersen) was out of town at the moment. When he returned to Salt Lake, the policy change was presented to him as a fait accompli.

When one looks back, it is obvious that the truly inspired leader in all of this was Apostle Hugh B. Brown.

[pam]

I, too would like to thank everyone that responded to this thread. For once I saw responses to a thread where someone was struggling that I really felt the love.

I think there are many that have moments of struggling with certain aspects of the Church. Many times it doesn't mean they are looking for a reason to back away...but just have questions that just need to be clarified in their mind. I think this thread did a good job of supporting and helping to clarify.

Thanks to everyone.

[rameumptom]

Not to offend or anything..

But I find that really interesting... I had it the opposite way when going into township areas for Stake callings.

I also find it fascinating that people still think that blacks are so different to white, chinese, indians & coloureds.

I am curious to know how different an African American's culture is to an American.

That's the problem, they don't have just one culture, just as whites in America do not have just one culture. There is a rap/hiphop culture, but then there are many who live like Dr Huxtable on the Cosby show. Take your pick of cultures amongst whites, and you'll find the same.

[skippy740]

I, too would like to thank everyone that responded to this thread. For once I saw responses to a thread where someone was struggling that I really felt the love.

I think there are many that have moments of struggling with certain aspects of the Church. Many times it doesn't mean they are looking for a reason to back away...but just have questions that just need to be clarified in their mind. I think this thread did a good job of supporting and helping to clarify.

Thanks to everyone.

Well, for the smoothness of the thread, I've got to thank Lovely12 for being so articulate with her words.

So many times on a discussion forum, words, meanings and intent are lost because the poster just can't seem to articulate their thoughts. Then it's left up to us to "interpret".

I think she articulated and communicated her thoughts quite well, which made it much easier for us as participants to think of things that can help her.

[john doe]

I think a lot of the way this thread has gone shows the earnestness with which Lovely12 has shown. A lot of times when we go down roads such as this things turn into unfair trashing of people and the church instead of honest, open communication. I believe that she wants to understand these things, and has not gone to the point of attacking because she doesn't fully understand yet. I applaud Lovely12 for her spirit shown here.

[Guest Lovely12]

Thank you, Pam, Skippy740, and John Doe. I want to find answers to my questions with ALL the love in my heart. I am so thankful that many of you felt my pain and sincerely wanted to help. You all have helped me tremendously. I can't thank you enough. I am so thankful that Heavenly Father led me to this forum. He knew the right people would read my words. Thank you.

I wrote brother Marvin Perkins last night of the Genesis group. I woke this morning with an email from him and I am awaiting his call. He said "I live for this work, my sister, and I will call you." It brought me tears of joy.

I would like to ask that you all please keep me in your prayers. Take care and God bless each and every one of you.

[Misshalfway]

To the OP:

If you wonder why people think you are being defensive and/or looking for a way out, it is because you came here sounding defensive. You have been in and out several times already. You have searched this issue several times already. You are not satisfied with the answers you've received. When will you be? You've in the past been satisfied enough to get baptized, and also to be endowed and sealed in the temple. Why are you not now satisfied? I agree with those who say that you need to pray about it and decide whether or not you truly believe the Church is true and that God sets His chosen leaders at the head of it (not that everything they say or do is necessarily always direct from God, but that He will not allow them to lead us astray).

And I don't think it's the least bit out of line for people to "blame" you when you go inactive. It's a choice that you make, that no one forces on you. Yes, people can say and/or do things to influence that decision, but it is your decision and yours only. You can choose to do it or undo it at any time.

You know...I didn't find the original post defensive. I found it heart felt and honest.