Worthiness and the Sacraments

[glow_inthe_dark_girl]

Hi everyone

This post is just to see some opinions on the subject. Here are some questions ...

1.- When can someone be consider unworthy to partake of Sacraments?

2.- Is is correct to give children the bread and water?

3.- Do you have to take the sacrament with the right hand?

4.- If a bishop tells someone no to take the sacraments and he notices, this person is taking it, what should he do?

5.- when you see people not taking the sacraments, do you wonder, what "big" sin he commited?

Well, I found this blog about what should we do if we see someone that is not worty partaking of the Sacrament, the author of the blog said that during her mission in a small town, this persons just showed up in the church (wasn´t LDS) and he grabbed the bread, so the branch president, who was also a missionary, said aloud "Drop it", so this guy just dropped it and never came back. The branch pressident argued that it was his responsability and he quoted: 3 Ne. 18: 28-29 28 And now behold, this is the commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall not suffer any one knowingly to apartake of my flesh and blood bunworthily, when ye shall minister it;

29 For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and ablood bunworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him.

I've read that we dont have to do this... If a non member takes the bread and water just let him/her. I was thinking about this cause today my b/f went to church and he was unsure about it. (Not LDS, he is going to get baptized on saturday)

About the kids taking sacraments , I ask this because I see some parents in my ward that grab the bread and water for little kids and they give it to them...

, supposenly they don´t need it, because the purpose of the Sacrament is to renew the convenants of the baptism.

Ok, just a topic

[Just_A_Guy]

1.- When can someone be consider unworthy to partake of Sacraments?

2.- Is is correct to give children the bread and water?

3.- Do you have to take the sacrament with the right hand?

4.- If a bishop tells someone no to take the sacraments and he notices, this person is taking it, what should he do?

5.- when you see people not taking the sacraments, do you wonder, what "big" sin he commited?

My opinions:

1. If they don't feel the spirit right then, they aren't worthy. I've refused the sacrament at times because I was in the middle of a prolonged disagreement with a family member.

2. As long as they have a basic understanding of what they are doing, I don't see a problem. My two-year-old daughter takes the sacrament weekly.

3. The right hand is the hand of covenant (there are quotations out there from Joseph F. Smith backing this up). Using the right hand for the sacrament is preferable, but not mandatory.

4. At the moment, nothing. Later, I'm sure he'll want to have a discussion.

5. The natural man in me does. I try to remind him that it's none of my business.

[Justice]

1.- When can someone be consider unworthy to partake of Sacraments?

When one is unrepentant and unwilling to take upon the name of Christ. Or, when he has confessed a grave sin to the Bishop and was asked to not partake by the Bishop.

2.- Is is correct to give children the bread and water?

It's not wrong to.

3.- Do you have to take the sacrament with the right hand?

The right hand has always been the covenant-making hand. It is also symbolic. It is proper to renew baptismal covenants by partaking with the right hand.

4.- If a bishop tells someone no to take the sacraments and he notices, this person is taking it, what should he do?

My guess is most Bishops would ask to speak to the individual privately and resolve the matter.

5.- when you see people not taking the sacraments, do you wonder, what "big" sin he commited?

No. I have my eyes closed and am only concerned with myself.

[hordak]

Number 3.

Because us southpaws are sinister.

Sinister is originally a Latin term for left or to the left (and by extension, left-handedness), and is used in heraldry to refer to the left of the bearer of the arms, and to the right by the viewer's eyes. It is often used to mean evil.

[Misshalfway]

Hi everyone

This post is just to see some opinions on the subject. Here are some questions ...

1.- When can someone be consider unworthy to partake of Sacraments?

2.- Is is correct to give children the bread and water?

3.- Do you have to take the sacrament with the right hand?

4.- If a bishop tells someone no to take the sacraments and he notices, this person is taking it, what should he do?

5.- when you see people not taking the sacraments, do you wonder, what "big" sin he commited?

Well, I found this blog about what should we do if we see someone that is not worty partaking of the Sacrament, the author of the blog said that during her mission in a small town, this persons just showed up in the church (wasn´t LDS) and he grabbed the bread, so the branch president, who was also a missionary, said aloud "Drop it", so this guy just dropped it and never came back. The branch pressident argued that it was his responsability and he quoted: 3 Ne. 18: 28-29 28 And now behold, this is the commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall not suffer any one knowingly to apartake of my flesh and blood bunworthily, when ye shall minister it;

29 For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and ablood bunworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him.

I've read that we dont have to do this... If a non member takes the bread and water just let him/her. I was thinking about this cause today my b/f went to church and he was unsure about it. (Not LDS, he is going to get baptized on saturday)

About the kids taking sacraments , I ask this because I see some parents in my ward that grab the bread and water for little kids and they give it to them...

, supposenly they don´t need it, because the purpose of the Sacrament is to renew the convenants of the baptism.

Ok, just a topic

1. It seems to me that we have been counseled NOT to decide whether or not to take the sacrament on our own. If there is a question as to ones worthiness or sin is serious enough to make a person stop taking it then, a bishop should be involved. A bishop is a judge in Israel and should judge our worthiness.

2. Yes. It is ok to give children the sacrament. It does not hold the same meaning though.

3. Yes. The ordinance is supposed to be taken with the right hand.

4. What should the bishop do? Well, that would be up to the bishop and the power of discernment given to him thru the Lord.

5. Frankly, I don't pay attention to who is taking it and who isn't. It ain't none of my business. The sacrament is an incredibly sacred and individual thing. I couldn't possibly know what pain or what struggle might be in someone's life. I think if someone isn't taking it and still attending meetings, then it must mean that they are working to come to Christ. Why wouldn't my support go to that person?

[MarginOfError]

1.- When can someone be consider unworthy to partake of Sacraments?

Whenever they feel unworthy or whenever the bishop has counseled them not to take the Sacrament. Elder Bednar visited my stake a couple years ago and counseled the youth regarding the Sacrament, telling them that if on Sunday morning they had a disagreement with their sibling they had best resolve the disagreement before they took the Sacrament.

2.- Is is correct to give children the bread and water?

There is no reason for them not to as they aren't going to take it unworthily. During the early years they may not understand the ordinance and may make a fuss if refused. Such a distraction is just as undesirable as having them take it without baptism (you don't want to disrupt the Spirit for others). Ultimately, it doesn't matter, but only matters that you teach kids the meaning and significance of the ordinance throughout their development.

3.- Do you have to take the sacrament with the right hand?

There are a lot of comments and discussions about this in the Church's history. However, the current handbooks make no mention of which hand should be used to either pass or partake of the Sacrament.

4.- If a bishop tells someone no to take the sacraments and he notices, this person is taking it, what should he do?

Nothing at the moment. He shouldn't do anything that will distract from the Spirit during the ordinance. If someone has been counseled not to take the Sacrament and the person does so anyway, then we should let him drink damnation to his own soul.

5.- when you see people not taking the sacraments, do you wonder, what "big" sin he commited?

I usually worry that they feel embarrassed or ashamed. The people that refuse the sacrament often feel like everyone in the ward is watching them. My first concern is to make their refusal as discrete and unnoticeable as possible for their own comfort.

[HEthePrimate]

Hi everyone

This post is just to see some opinions on the subject. Here are some questions ...

1.- When can someone be consider unworthy to partake of Sacraments?

I wouldn't worry about it... unless that person is YOU! Seriously, though, if you've committed a really bad sin, you may want to talk to you bishop about it. In the scriptures the Lord says that if somebody has a problem with you, to go and make up with that person before making offerings to the Lord. Our relationships with other people are very important to Him. Are you doing your best to be good to people?

Another thing to keep in mind. Sometimes we Mormons tend to be perfectionists and overdo the "guilt thing." You do not have to be perfect in every way in order to be considered "worthy" by the Church.

2.- Is is correct to give children the bread and water?

Even though children under 8 have not yet been baptized, and therefore have no need to partake of the Sacrament in order to renew their baptismal covenant, most parents allow their children to partake of the Sacrament, or give it to them, in order to get them used to the idea, to train them. This is seen by the Church as appropriate.

3.- Do you have to take the sacrament with the right hand?

No. The left and right hands did have symbolic significance "in olden days," as evidenced by the Latin words for "right" and "left," "dexter" and "sinister." As a result, being left-handed was frowned upon, and teachers attempted to get left-handed students to write with their right hands. This thinking is somewhat outmoded, and no, one is not required to take the sacrament with the right hand, though you may occasionally meet a Mormon who thinks you do!

4.- If a bishop tells someone no to take the sacraments and he notices, this person is taking it, what should he do?

In a situation like that, the Bishop should jump up, dash down into the audience, and knock the sacrament out of the offending person's hand!! Just kidding. In reality, the bishop would probably not do anything at the time, but later remind the person not to take the sacrament in the future.

5.- when you see people not taking the sacraments, do you wonder, what "big" sin he commited?

Well, people shouldn't wonder such things--it's none of their business--but I'm sure they sometimes do! Hey, we're just human and get curious.

Peace,

HEP

[martybess]

Hi everyone

This post is just to see some opinions on the subject. Here are some questions ...

1.- When can someone be consider unworthy to partake of Sacraments?

2.- Is is correct to give children the bread and water?

3.- Do you have to take the sacrament with the right hand?

4.- If a bishop tells someone no to take the sacraments and he notices, this person is taking it, what should he do?

5.- when you see people not taking the sacraments, do you wonder, what "big" sin he commited?

1- If they are not in a sincere penitent way or if the Bishop request they don't. I really wish there were more acceptance for those who feel unworthy. Many partake unworthily because they don't want to hurt parents/spouse/children or they dont wont the ward thinking/talking.

2-Yes

3- Handbook does not indicate.

4- Talk to them later.

5- I think to myself what a BIG person they are! I don't look around though.

The newest handbook of instructions (book 1 2006) say this about what the bishop should do if a nonmember partakes. There's a guy in my ward who partakes every week and has for years and he's a non-member.

"Although the sacrament is for Church members, the bishopric should not announce that it will be passed to members only, and nothing should be done to prevent nonmembers from partaking of it."

[Mirium]

Just curious, if someone was not keeping the word of wisdom but repented each week or if they were trying but failing to keep the word of wisdom and repented this week would they still be able to take the sacrament?

Also what if they struggled to be repentant about it and knew they were not ready to change their ways, could they then take the sacrament?

Finally, I was told word of wisdom issues were things you could repent of alone and did not require seeing the Bishop. Is this correct?

[Hemidakota]

Repentance means to FORSAKE THE SIN; not a continuance at ones will.

The answer is NO, NO, YES & NO. In some cases, it will require a supported helping hand from the Bishop/Branch President.

Let me read again to you from Ezekiel 33, which outlines three main steps of repentance: (1) commitment, (2) restitution, and (3) forsaking sin. "If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity: he shall surely live, he shall not die." (V. 15.)

[MarginOfError]

Just curious, if someone was not keeping the word of wisdom but repented each week or if they were trying but failing to keep the word of wisdom and repented this week would they still be able to take the sacrament?

Also what if they struggled to be repentant about it and knew they were not ready to change their ways, could they then take the sacrament?

Finally, I was told word of wisdom issues were things you could repent of alone and did not require seeing the Bishop. Is this correct?

Repentance means to FORSAKE THE SIN; not a continuance at ones will.

The answer is NO, NO, YES & NO. In some cases, it will require a supported helping hand from the Bishop/Branch President.

I have to disagree Hemi. Repentance requires forsaking the sin, but I am fairly certain that worthiness to partake of the sacrament is dependent on one having a repentant heart, and not on having completed repentance.

Looking at it one way, if we had to have repented to be worthy to take the Sacrament, none of us would ever be able to take the Sacrament. To repent we must forsake the sin, and therefore, never do it again. But we can't say we've truly repented and never done the sin again until we've died (or beyond). But, we can have a repentant heart and seriously be striving to achieve this goal.

Besides, the people that have a sincere desire to repent and are still struggling with their sins are the people most in need of the Sacrament.

[glow_inthe_dark_girl]

Just curious, if someone was not keeping the word of wisdom but repented each week or if they were trying but failing to keep the word of wisdom and repented this week would they still be able to take the sacrament?

Also what if they struggled to be repentant about it and knew they were not ready to change their ways, could they then take the sacrament?

Finally, I was told word of wisdom issues were things you could repent of alone and did not require seeing the Bishop. Is this correct?

it depends, if it has happened just once you dont Have to ( but u could) talk to your bishop, but if it has become an issue or a constant problem you should confess so you can get help..

[Prodigal_Son]

2.- Is is correct to give children the bread and water?

You know what would happen if you tried to refuse them?

5.- when you see people not taking the sacraments, do you wonder, what "big" sin he commited?

I'm not looking around at that time, but even if I DID notice - I've got more issues than National Geographic. Why on earth would I care about someone else's?

Well, I found this blog about what should we do if we see someone that is not worty partaking of the Sacrament, the author of the blog said that during her mission in a small town, this persons just showed up in the church (wasn´t LDS) and he grabbed the bread, so the branch president, who was also a missionary, said aloud "Drop it", so this guy just dropped it and never came back. The branch pressident argued that it was his responsability and he quoted: 3 Ne. 18: 28-29 28 And now behold, this is the commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall not suffer any one knowingly to apartake of my flesh and blood bunworthily, when ye shall minister it;

29 For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and ablood bunworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him.

That's just sad. Shnikes! Look at David and the shewbread! And that was under the Mosaic Law!!!

WWJD? I doubt he'd holler "drop it".

[Hemidakota]

I have to disagree Hemi. Repentance requires forsaking the sin, but I am fairly certain that worthiness to partake of the sacrament is dependent on one having a repentant heart, and not on having completed repentance.

Looking at it one way, if we had to have repented to be worthy to take the Sacrament, none of us would ever be able to take the Sacrament. To repent we must forsake the sin, and therefore, never do it again. But we can't say we've truly repented and never done the sin again until we've died (or beyond). But, we can have a repentant heart and seriously be striving to achieve this goal.

Besides, the people that have a sincere desire to repent and are still struggling with their sins are the people most in need of the Sacrament.

The key here in answering the question: a continuous of sin is not repentance. Yes! We do make mistakes but not deliberately every week or everyday and them partake of the sacrament. It does defeat the purpose of renewing our covenants with GOD.

[pam]

If while taking the Sacrament we are concentrating more on who's taking it and who isn't...we ourselves would not be taking the sacrament in the Spirit in which it should be.

[martybess]

If while taking the Sacrament we are concentrating more on who's taking it and who isn't...we ourselves would not be taking the sacrament in the Spirit in which it should be.

I always close my eyes and try to think about it. I'm starting to get a greater reverence but it's taking me years really. The only problem I'm having now is sometimes because my eyes are closed I drift off to la-la land. LOL

[pam]

I totally understand that one martybess.

[its_Chet]

As an investigator, I took the discussions at the house of a friend's parents. They bore testimony to me and taught me about the Gospel, to the point that when the missionaries showed up, it was basicly just Q & A. Their testimony of Joseph Smith Jr. was the "deal closer" for me, and I have been in awe of the man ever since.

Anyway, my friend's father, whose teaching had the single most profound effect on me, and whom I love like he was my own father, had a bit of a rigid policy about the sacrament while I sat with them as an investigator. When he held the tray out to me, he would never turn loose of it until I had taken the sacrament, and he never held it out to me before I got baptized. Prior to my baptism, he passed it by me, which I thought nothing of. I assumed that prior to baptism, an investigator should not be taking sacrament. Other religions have similar customs and it didn't bother me.

One day he explained this, as he noticed that his behavior puzzled me, even though it did not offend. He told me that sacrament is to be taken with the right hand, and that you do not serve yourself. He said you take sacrament as the person to your side serves it to you, and once you've partaken, you serve the person to your side the same way.

Regarding children, for the longest time I believed that it was improper for anyone who is not yet baptized to take the sacrament. Moroni had strong feelings about baptizing children before the age of accountability, and I still feel that a child under the age of accountability who is offered or coaxed into taking the sacrament by their parents is something similar, because taking the sacrament renews our baptismal covenants and has the effect of removing our sins as if we had just been baptized. And to attempt to wash away the sins of a child without sin, to me, is an offensive idea.

Of course, I have since learned that the official Church policy is that it's okay for unbaptized children and investigators to take the sacrament. My wife insists that they do, whereas with me, if they're not paying attention and it goes by them, I'm more comfortable that way. It's just my personal feeling and I don't expect anyone to agree with me. I don't understand the "why" behind the Church policy on this, but I humbly and cheefully defer on this, despite my lingering sentiments. I believe having a testimony requires this of me.

As far as when to partake or not to partake, I think it's a judgment call we all have to make for ourselves, and for the most part, need to refrain from attempting to make on another's behalf. Sometimes I see my wife take sacrament after having recently said something hurtful to me, and I don't question it. Sometimes I see her not partake, and I have no idea why, but I don't question it.

The story about the Branch President telling the visitor to "drop it" is probably more complicated than it sounds. My understanding is that a Branch President has the same authority that a Bishop has, and a Bishop is a "judge in Israel". Maybe he knew something that isn't revealed here. I'd like to hear his side of it.

[Justice]

I have to disagree Hemi. Repentance requires forsaking the sin, but I am fairly certain that worthiness to partake of the sacrament is dependent on one having a repentant heart, and not on having completed repentance.

Looking at it one way, if we had to have repented to be worthy to take the Sacrament, none of us would ever be able to take the Sacrament. To repent we must forsake the sin, and therefore, never do it again. But we can't say we've truly repented and never done the sin again until we've died (or beyond). But, we can have a repentant heart and seriously be striving to achieve this goal.

Besides, the people that have a sincere desire to repent and are still struggling with their sins are the people most in need of the Sacrament.

Yes, the term is we must have a "broken heart and contrite spirit."

I think early stages of repentance is implied, but, as you said, forsaking a sin is something we may not know until years later. I'd say perhaps a strong desire to forsake that sin might be better wording.

[Justice]

I always close my eyes and try to think about it. I'm starting to get a greater reverence but it's taking me years really. The only problem I'm having now is sometimes because my eyes are closed I drift off to la-la land. LOL

Try opening to a sacrament realted scripture, or a topic or story you are studying. Keep it open on your lap and if you start to drift, pen your eyes and read scriptures until you no longer drift.

[glow_inthe_dark_girl]

thnks foru ur opinions.. now Ill write mine...

1.- When can someone be consider unworthy to partake of Sacraments?

When you feel comfortable taking it and you havent done anything that if Jesus was there you would be able to take it without remorse..

2.- Is is correct to give children the bread and water?

I don't think is wrong, its up to the parents, kids are pure so they dont need it but is not necessary to denied them.

3.- Do you have to take the sacrament with the right hand?

I havent seen any official record on this.

4.- If a bishop tells someone no to take the sacraments and he notices, this person is taking it, what should he do?

Nothing in that moment, but I think later he would call the person and talk about his reasons for doing so

5.- when you see people not taking the sacraments, do you wonder, what "big" sin he commited?

Honestly , I never look around, we are suppose to be thinking about the atonement of CHrist and about keeping the covenants we had made..

[kpatrey]

The key here in answering the question: a continuous of sin is not repentance. Yes! We do make mistakes but not deliberately every week or everyday and them partake of the sacrament. It does defeat the purpose of renewing our covenants with GOD.

I'd have to say that we indeed make mistakes everyday, every week. We will continue to do so until this life is over. I am so incredibly thankful every Sunday that I can partake of the Sacrament. I pray for forgiveness for my many shortcomings and I ask for strength to make better choices in the week to come. Those that are struggling with the word of wisdom, in my opinion, need support and understanding. They need the Sacrament so much!!!

[Guest Alana]

I have never heard the right hand thing. I guess that's what I get for being a convert who hasn't been to the temple, or something....

For kids, my kids take the sacrament, it's a wonderful time for me to whisper in their ear about Jesus and what the bread and water stand for. Talking about blood and body can be a little intimidating for toddlers, but when we talk about it while they are taking it, it seems like they 'get it'

I'll take the sacrament as long as I feel like I'm trying to do what Heavenly Father wants me to. There are times I've taken the sacrament and I hadn't fully repented of something. I was in the process. Taking the sacrament was very important in getting to the end of that process. I've not taken the sacrament when I'd gotten in an arguement with my Gram and had to intention of thinking nice thoughts about her.

As someone who attended church and was unable to take the sacrament for years, I do not let my eyes wander! I know what my sins were, the big and the little and I don't want to know what everyone else is up to. If I do notice something, I'll just assume they already took the sacrament earlier some how;)

[rayhale]

Hi everyone

This post is just to see some opinions on the subject. Here are some questions ...

1.- When can someone be consider unworthy to partake of Sacraments?

2.- Is is correct to give children the bread and water?

3.- Do you have to take the sacrament with the right hand?

4.- If a bishop tells someone no to take the sacraments and he notices, this person is taking it, what should he do?

5.- when you see people not taking the sacraments, do you wonder, what "big" sin he commited?

Well, I found this blog about what should we do if we see someone that is not worty partaking of the Sacrament, the author of the blog said that during her mission in a small town, this persons just showed up in the church (wasn´t LDS) and he grabbed the bread, so the branch president, who was also a missionary, said aloud "Drop it", so this guy just dropped it and never came back. The branch pressident argued that it was his responsability and he quoted: 3 Ne. 18: 28-29 28 And now behold, this is the commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall not suffer any one knowingly to apartake of my flesh and blood bunworthily, when ye shall minister it;

29 For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and ablood bunworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him.

I've read that we dont have to do this... If a non member takes the bread and water just let him/her. I was thinking about this cause today my b/f went to church and he was unsure about it. (Not LDS, he is going to get baptized on saturday)

About the kids taking sacraments , I ask this because I see some parents in my ward that grab the bread and water for little kids and they give it to them...

, supposenly they don´t need it, because the purpose of the Sacrament is to renew the convenants of the baptism.

Ok, just a topic

1. They need to talk to their Bishop, my Bishop said that he knows of plenty of people who judge themselves to harshly and stop partaking of the sacrament when they still could have received the sacrament.

2. I don’t see anything wrong in letting them take the sacrament, but I don’t think it’s good to force the bread or water down their throats, as others have said, you should tell your kids the importance of the sacrament. Beware that bread can be a choking hazard, and a person can drown in as little as a tablespoon of water.

3. As others have said, in the past there has been a lot of symbolism of right and left hands, if you can, you should take the sacrament with your right hand, but if you can’t, you should feel that you are sinning.

4. The Bishop should rebuke in private, I see no need to embarrass anyone in front of the whole ward.

5. Since I’m not the Bishop, I can’t judge others for what they do or don’t do.

On a side note, the people who pass the sacrament, pass it to everyone, including non-members and people who have been excommunicated, they are not to judge, so if you are unsure if you can take the sacrament, don’t ask someone that passes the sacrament, he will just refer you to the Bishop.