D&c 89:21

[Soul_Searcher]

This scripture came up today and bugged me a little bit. The promise of health and strength if you live the word of wisdom. My FIL has numerous health problems so do many people in my ward, and they are not old either. They quite clearly do not have health in their navel or marrow to their bones.

Why would the Lord say this when it is an un-keepable promise? People will get ill, it cant be fulfilled, so why would he say it??

[Still_Small_Voice]

Doctrine and Covenants 89:21 reads:

"And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen."

Who is the destroying angel? Satan is the destroying angel. Many people who abuse drugs and alcohol fall into temptation and the snares of the evil one. Our minds will be clear and one will find it easier to resist the devil if your mind is not clouded by substance abuse.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Still_Small_Voice
grammar error

[pam]

Let me take this one step further...though I'm not sure it will totally answer your question:

This is what it says in that scripture:

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

N. Eldon Tanner says this concerning this verse:

Too often we think of the promise as pertaining only to observance of the Word of Wisdom, but if you will note the phrase in the first sentence, it states, “walking in obedience to the commandments,” which means that we observe not only the counsel in this revelation, but keep the other commandments in order to obtain the promise.

[qedd]

Interesting question.

There is one other scripture in the LDS standard works that contains similar wording:

Proverbs 3:8: "It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones."

Looking at this verse in context, could it be something other than temporal, physical health that is being referred to? What does "health to thy navel" mean? What is the significance of the navel? What does "marrow to thy bones" mean? What is the significance of marrow and bones? Why no other references to other parts of the body?

Proverbs 3:1-2 says that keeping the commandments will bring a lengthening of days, long life, and peace. Yet, there are many righteous men and women that die young. So what is meant here? What is it that we are to learn?

[pam]

Pres. Faust said that marrow has long been a symbol of vibrant, healthful living.

[Soul_Searcher]

I meant verse 19, to clarify. Pam, the people I know DO live the commandements, they are devoted to the church as are a lot of members. Yet they have health problems and remain ill.

qudd, perhaps you are right, but as it is so specific to body parts it has to be about physical health, does it not?

[pam]

Verse 19 is not necessarily about health issues. It's about finding wisdom and great treasures of knowledge.

“How critically we need greater wisdom and knowledge in these perplexing times—more, even, than we need the greater physical health the revelation promises. Our children are growing up in a world that demands decisions on issues their grandparents never dreamed of. How marvelously reassuring to know that hidden treasures of knowledge are available to help make those decisions the right ones.” (Finding Hidden Treasures, LDS Church News, 1989, 05/27/89)

Dallin H. Oaks

The scriptures demonstrate that we are most likely to hear the voice or know the will of God if we are keeping his commandments. The Savior taught, “If any man will do his will, he will know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” (John 7:17) To cite a more modern example, Saints who keep the Word of Wisdom are promised that they “shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures.” (D&C 89:19.) If we are to be confident in distinguishing between spurious signals and the promptings of the Holy Ghost, we must be receptive to the Spirit. To do this, we must keep the commandments of God. (“I Have a Question,” Ensign, June 1983, 27)

[beefche]

I meant verse 19, to clarify. Pam, the people I know DO live the commandements, they are devoted to the church as are a lot of members. Yet they have health problems and remain ill.

qudd, perhaps you are right, but as it is so specific to body parts it has to be about physical health, does it not?

No, if the scriptures talk literally about a body part, it does not mean physical health. Often, scriptures can mean something literally, but often they are symbols for deeper meaning.

Also, keeping the WoW does not guarantee physical health just as paying tithing does not guarantee financial success.

Followers of Christ are not immune to having temptations, illness, weaknesses, etc. Since we see modern day prophets and know more about their lives than the ancient prophets, let me use one as an example. Pres Kimball suffered from many illnesses, yet I'm sure he was faithful in keeping the WoW. He was the Lord's prophet and mouthpiece, yet had surgery which took alot of his voice from him.

All the commandments are for our benefit--either physical or spiritual or both. We are mortal and do not know or understand all the implications, but that is when we choose our faith to act for us.

[john doe]

I think sometimes we think too specific. Do good people get sick? Absolutely. Do people who obey the Word of Wisdom get sick? Of course. But if we take a slightly longer view, has it not been proven that people who abstain from alcohol, tobacco, and illegal drugs generally live longer, healthier lives? And have health professionals not been telling us to make grains more central in our diets and be careful how much meat we take in? It's common sense.

My dad had cancer, my father-in-law had cancer before he died, my sister died from cancer, my brother has diabetes and is dying from cancer. They all lived the Word of Wisdom. Does that negate it? Absolutely not. One has no relation to the other in all those cases.

Doctrine and Covenants 89:21 reads:

"And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen."

Who is the destroying angel? Satan is the destroying angel. Many people who abuse drugs and alcohol fall into temptation and the snares of the evil one. Our minds will be clear and one will find it easier to resist the devil if your mind is not clouded by substance abuse.

__________________

Actually, we talked about this today as well. I think it refers more to the Passover, when the Children of Israel marked their doors so the destroying angel would pass over them. When people think about LDS, one of the first things they talk about is how we don't smoke or drink. This would be a peculiar or distinguishing mark, wouldn't it? After all, it could be argued by some that smoking or drinking alcohol, coffee, and tea really don't have anything to do with worshipping God. Yet He has given us this health code as a principle with a promise. We stand out among religions for this.

[beefche]

john, I've always looked at that verse about the destroying angel as more spiritual. It does refer to the passover when the Israelites marked their doors and posts with the paschal lamb's blood so that the destroying angel would pass by them. But, look at the symbolism. The paschal lamb = Christ: we are covered by His atoning blood, which means the destroying angel will pass us by and we will not suffer the spiritual death sin brings us.

That's why I say that scriptures can be both literal and symbolic. In the OT, the scriptures describing the passover even was literal--the destroying angel did not take the physical life of the firstborn sons of the Israelites but there is also a spiritual message there as well.

So, in the case of verse 21, to me, the destroying angel is referring to both physical and spiritual--we may be spared some of the illnesses that others get who don't follow the WoW. But our obedience to the WoW will also assure us that we will not suffer the spiritual death that the destroying angel can bring.

[MarginOfError]

I don't have an answer that will make you feel good about this. But I'll give my answer anyway.

It is also recorded several times in the Book of Mormon that as long as we keep the commandments, we shall prosper. I also know people who strive to keep the commandments, but yet they find themselves living in poverty. Then there is my sister who has suffered from fibro myalgia since age 14. She too has always kept the Word of Wisdom and all the commandments. Why is she suffering from poor health?

My personal belief is that it is a long sequence of additive effects that we usually refer to as genetics. I'm in the camp that believes that God initiated a system of variables and let nature run its course, and I believe he tries to intervene as little as possible in our lives. I believe when he does intervene, it is either because the intervention would further his causes; he is exceptionally moved by our faith or devotion; or he knows that more growth will come out of our lives and the lives of those around us if he intervenes than if he does not.

In short, I believe that a great many of the things that happen to us are simply random events.

With that view in mind, I tend to look at the promises God makes as baseline promises; the result you could expect for the average person. But when you think about "average" among humans, there is a huge amount of variation. Unfortunately--and I don't mean for this to sound insensitive--your father-in-law appears to be on the shallow end of the health spectrum. His poor luck in genetics and overall health have overshadowed the blessings of living the Word of Wisdom.

I can't offer much in the way of explaining why the Lord simply won't heal this. But I can offer an anecdote. I served with a sister who had a problem with hiccups. It sounds silly, and I teased her about it a lot. Every now and again, she would just hiccup. There was nothing she could do about it. Sometimes it would be hours between hiccups, and sometimes it would be minutes. There was never more than one. She'd had this problem for her entire life. She didn't mind that much, except that it was painful.

After we both returned home I was visiting in her area and stopped by to see her. She hiccuped a couple of times while we were out, and i thought about it and told her that if she wanted, a priesthood blessing could cure her of the hiccups. She took a day or two to think about it, but then told me she that as uncomfortable as her hiccups were, she didn't want them to be taken away. Her sister had much worse health problems, and was usually in much more discomfort. The girl I knew said that she felt that if her affliction--as trivial as it was--were to be taken away, then she wouldn't be able to empathize and support her sister as well. She felt that her hiccups enabled her to better serve her sister through her own health problems.

Now, I don't believe that those hiccups existed because God thought, "Hey, if I give her the hiccups, she'll server her sister better." But I do believe that he recognized how to make the most good out of a less than ideal situation. It's possible that your father-in-law's situation is somewhat similar. While it may utterly suck in the here and now, the blessings and the good that come of a crappy situation may later be understood to have been beneficial for many.

I'm aware that this explanation doesn't offer much solace. All I can do is promise that obeying the commandments brings great happiness and peace, even in sickness and adversity.

[Elgama]

whilst many members keep the commandment of the Word of Wisdom I don't know many members that keep D&C 89 which is not the commandment we keep as members it covers more about what we eat than just avoiding the basic 5.

The members I know who keep D & C 89 to the letter (and they are few and far between) are amazingly healthy.

I have a health condition but I also know that because of the Word of Wisdom i am much healthier than most people who have had my condition as badly as I have as long, I don't have the allergies and other problems that usually develop.

My Father is not a member BUT he does a good job of keeping D&C 89 at 70 he can run in half marathons etc.

-Charley

[john doe]

Beefche, the beauty of the Words of God is that they can be interpreted in a variety of ways depending on your personal spiritual needs that day and they can hold different meanings for different people, yet still be true for each meaning. And you can go back and read the very same thing the next day and it will inspire you differently than it does today.

[BenRaines]

And what would be their health if not obedient. I have always felt that health would be, could be a lot worse if not obedient.

Not a personal perfect health guarantee but better than what your normal would be.

Ben Raines

[Just_A_Guy]

The WoW promises that we will receive "health in the navel, and marrow in the bones", but it doesn't say when we will receive it.

My own opinion--based partly on my personal interpretation of elements of the temple ceremony--is that the promise does not pertain to this particular phase of our existence.

[JohnnyRudick]

Interesting question.

There is one other scripture in the LDS standard works that contains similar wording:

Proverbs 3:8: "It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones."

Looking at this verse in context, could it be something other than temporal, physical health that is being referred to? What does "health to thy navel" mean? What is the significance of the navel? What does "marrow to thy bones" mean? What is the significance of marrow and bones? Why no other references to other parts of the body?

Proverbs 3:1-2 says that keeping the commandments will bring a lengthening of days, long life, and peace. Yet, there are many righteous men and women that die young. So what is meant here? What is it that we are to learn?

I believe the navel reference is actually referring to our digestive system.

A healthy digestive system is vital in the proper converting of the foods we eat to useful vitamins, breaking down the minerals to useful combination with the vitamins to useful enzymes for proper growth and mental health.

The Bone marrow produces the blood and immune systems.

Bro. Rudick

[Wingnut]

I've always thought of the destroying angel verse as symbolic, but I like John Doe's take on it...that our "peculiar" behavior as Latter-day Saints is kind-of a mark, a way by which people can identify us. Interesting concept. Thanks for sharing.

[duhgman]

I was led to study D&C 89 over the last 2 years and have had many revelations regarding this section.

One verse in particular is verse 4 which states "....In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation".

I interpret that to mean that there are people who will seek to harm others, but the key word phrase there is "in the last days".

If you look at the history of the world, up until the industrial revolution, what were people doing and eating? Some 90% of the population were farmers and grew their own food and traded with others. They were nearly eating 100% fresh fruits and vegetables and grains, and some were eating meat as well. But the point is, the food was untampered with, and fresh and natural.

Look at how we eat today. The majority of our food is processed with all sorts of preservatives and additives, and genetic manipulation, and other methods to make the food last for weeks or months (or years) on the shelves. All of which are completely unnatural.

If you pick an apple from your fruit tree, you can be pretty confident that you know what you are getting. If you buy any product off the shelf in a store, can you be sure you know everything that has gone into making it?

Recently there was the health scare from China, where some type of filler material was added to the milk products that killed (just under 100 people?) worldwide. Something like that is "bad" because we know it has "bad" and immediate effects. But what about the additives and preservatives that kill people slowly, like over a 50 year period or less. Are those any less "bad" because the effects are not as obvious or are less measurable?

I believe that in the Word of Wisdom that a higher law exists, and those who keep it will receive the "higher" blessings. If you survey 100 active church going Mormons, nearly all will say they keep the Word of Wisdom. On the surface, most will believe that since they don't smoke, drink, etc... that they are keeping the Word of Wisdom. In my opinion, that is the lower law. Whether the higher law includes becoming a Vegan is for you to ponder.

Someone else posted that they know many older Mormons who live the commandments, yet have health problems and are ill. I believe that the promise that they "shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones" is true and that the Lord will always keep his promises.

I'm a "good" Mormon, having kept the Word of Wisdom all my life as I understood it, yet I used to get the flue, or common cold 2 to 3 times a year as is common among the majority of the population. Yet in the last year, having changed my diet in accordance with the answers I have received after pondering D&C 89 in great depth, I have not been sick once in the last year, I have lost 30 pounds, and feel in better shape than ever. I still eat meat a couple times a week but that is a big drop from the couple times a day that I used to do following the SAD diet (Standard American Diet). You know the diet....Bacon or Sausage for breakfast a couple times a week...Hamburger or Hotdog...and don't forget the wonderful dinner dishes like Lasagna (containing beef), the Roast beef and potato dinners, steaks, summer BBQ's, etc. We as Americans eat a lot of meat, but as long as we eat an amount we consider to be "normal" then we feel we are doing OK.

I looked up the word "Sparingly" in Webster's dictionary. One of the many definitions said "To avoid the use of". Which definition do you prefer to use? Which one did the Lord mean? Which law do you want to follow? How do you want your health to be?

I believe that if you are not receiving the blessings you want (ie health, financial prosperity, etc.) that you are not truly following the law upon which those blessings are predicated.

The Word of Wisdom is not by "Commandment or Constraint" which means, the choice is yours. If you want the blessing promised towards the end of D&C 89, then follow the law. If you are not receiving those promised blessings, do some more soul searching to see if perhaps you are not quite following the law. Another thought to consider...perhaps the Destroying Angel is disease and other health problems???

I could go on for many more pages about D&C 89, but that is it for now. Do your own study...

Duhgman

[joheri]

Just one question? What is it to obey the WoW? Is it to pass the Temple recommend question? All that takes is to avoid alcohol, tobacco, coffee/tea or drug abuse of any kind. But the WoW is so much more. Most of us are so used to our western industrialized food production we usually don't reflect on what it does to us. I believe the WoW is there to lead us on a path of finding out what is really good for our body. For instance, if we really think hard, we all know we don't need all that fat and sugar that is usually found in industrially processed food. In addition, there are so many additives in processed food, it is not strange we get sick, or should I say sicker than necessary.

A member in our ward, told me that there is a simple principle most people don't think of, not even medical personell. Our body is mostly water and if you take a water pit and make it acid, bacterias and other harmfull organisms will flourish. On the other hand, if you keep the water neutral or even a bit alcalic bacterias will not prosper. Apply this to our body and eat food that keep your body neutral or just above that. Now, you don't find this out by reading the WoW. One needs to search, ponder and pray. Sugar, by the way, makes your body acid.

How can we expect to have health in our navel and marrow in our bones if we only live the WoW to the point of passing the Temple interview?

IMHO

[john doe]

Spirit of the Law, meet Letter of the Law.

[JohnnyRudick]

Just one question? . . . How can we expect to have health in our navel and marrow in our bones if we only live the WoW to the point of passing the Temple interview? IMHO

But it does get us started in the right direction.

Just look at this world around us.

The Temple recommend minimums are still quite a shocker in this ol' world.

Bro. Rudick

[joheri]

The Temple recommend minimums are still quite a shocker in this ol' world

So true! Living the easier part of the WoW is peculiar in the eyes of the world, and it does provide some health benefits. But if you want more than that....

[ruthiechan]

But it does get us started in the right direction.

Just look at this world around us.

The Temple recommend minimums are still quite a shocker in this ol' world.

Bro. Rudick

I always considered the Temple recommend as the equivalent of the the blood in the archway of the door in today's time.

[Jerbow]

This scripture came up today and bugged me a little bit. The promise of health and strength if you live the word of wisdom. My FIL has numerous health problems so do many people in my ward, and they are not old either. They quite clearly do not have health in their navel or marrow to their bones.

Why would the Lord say this when it is an un-keepable promise? People will get ill, it cant be fulfilled, so why would he say it??

Here goes my first post/reply ever on this site. Be kind:) I have to start off my thought process by first acknowledging that 1) The Lord's words are always eternal and 2) ALL his words MUST be fulfilled.

Let me take a stab at "The destroying angel passing by them and not destroy them" promise. To me the destroying angel depicted in this revelation is addiction. Addiction to drugs, alcohol, tobacco, etc. is "destroying" countless lives in and out of the church. By living the letter and spirit of the Word of Wisdom, we can rely on God's promise that we will not fall prey to the destructive forces of addictions.

I don't know what health in the naval means and marrow exactly means, but one thing is for sure. If we keep God's commandments, including the Word of Wisdom, God will bless us with all the health and strength we need to accomplish all we are personally commissioned to do in this life. Once we die, we then lay claim to the resurrection which most assuredly restores perfect health to every body part. To those who have proven faithful in all things are given more glorified bodies and I'm sure all the Savior's promises will be fully perfectly, and eternally realized then.

[Letrell]

I have read many of the posts, but there are just too many to read them all...I have not been following along with a few of the topics, so catch-up is murder!!!

Here's my way of thinking...

Most people "assume" this strength and health as we would see it, forgetting that it's all relative.

The young woman that has a car accident at the age of 32, left never to walk again. Well...suppose this woman would have died or even worse, have been a parapalegic (sp?) had she not been living the word of wisdon and had she not been living the gospel of Jesus Christ, to include living up to her Temple Convenants?

A father of 8, righteous, living as he should, etc., has a heart attack....he turns to the Lord pleading to spare his life so he might remain on earth to help his wife and raise his children. He is blessed by the Lord and remains here, open heart surgery, heart repair, and must live his life in a more quiet pace. To him, the blessings of health were granted him....

I'm just sayin...... it's all in how we look at things.

Wonderful comments, by the way. I look forward to reading through the rest of them when I have time!

Letrell