Tattoos

[pam]

There was a young girl I worked with once. She lived for tattoos. Every payday she got another one. So she is pretty much covered. I asked her how she was going to feel about them when she was 80 years old..and she was wrinkled and they were faded.

Her response...Oh I don't plan on being like that. I'm going to work out all my life to avoid that. Uh huh...like that will help at 80 years old.

[lattelady]

Pam, you said something about your dad and your hypothetical tattoo idea being one that had some aviation theme in his honor because he was a pilot. I think that's such a cool idea (hypothetically). :) Some of the neatest tattoos (to me) are the ones I've seen on the forearms and upper arms of elderly men who served in World War Two. The tattoo itself is really faded, but I love to hear the story behind it. Those are some of the bravest men I can think of...

My husband's grandfather was a bomber pilot in WW2, and after the war he flew for PanAmerican Airlines for years. He passed away last year, but what a great man he was. Was your dad a commercial pilot?

[pam]

No he wasn't. He was a flight engineer and an aircraft mechanic in the Navy. He knew more about planes than anyone I know. He will forever be remembered for his airplane stories. Every talk he ever gave in church had an airplane story that he could bring into his talk. So at his funeral...I gave the eulogy and what did it include? Airplane stories.

On his grave stone there is an engraving of a C-130. He passed away in March of this year.

[Jbs2763]

i need to take pics of all mine and throw them up here...

[pam]

No throwing up on this site.

[lattelady]

Pam, I'm sorry to hear about your dad--they're such a huge part of our lives. Sounds like you had an amazing father...thanks for sharing a little about him with me.

[pam]

Thank you. Yes he was an amazing man and I miss him terribly. I certainly didn't think that when I was a teenager though. lol

[Moksha]

I was just thinking that if I had gotten tatoos when I was a young adult, how much bigger they would be today.

[hordak]

There was a young girl I worked with once. She lived for tattoos. Every payday she got another one. So she is pretty much covered. I asked her how she was going to feel about them when she was 80 years old..and she was wrinkled and they were faded.

Her response...Oh I don't plan on being like that. I'm going to work out all my life to avoid that. Uh huh...like that will help at 80 years old.

Works for my hero

(In case people don't know that is Jack Lalanne who don't just sell juicers. Hes done stuff in his 70s most couldn't do in late teens early 20s.)

I imagine your skins condition is one of the last things on your mind at 80.

Besides, some people age pretty gracefully

With the advance of modern science

[lattelady]

WOW...it is shocking how different she looks, then and now--before and after! She aged well! with a great deal of help and money. Is it the Geico commercial she was on awhile ago where she makes fun of herself about her cosmetic surgery? I laugh every time I see it--she has a cool sense of humor about it (I'm sure she's been the brunt of MANY a joke).

[Dravin]

Ignoring any religion prohibition against such for the moment, I'll never get a tat because I'm cheap, I'm allergic to pain, and just don't find them attractive. Oh, and I don't like pain.

I would have mentioned the pain aspect but the ghost of John Wayne forbade me.

[Traveler]

I was certainly not trying to start up a contentious post. I don't really want to hear about people's judgements regarding tattoos--I just wanted to hear about the tattoos that people do have and what they mean to them. It actually hurt my feelings to see a post begin with "Ugh, not another tattoo post..."

I haven't ever seen one on here before--I was just starting my own post hoping to celebrate people's individuality and creativity. I hope people will help me keep it non-contentious and strictly about the creativity of your tattoos. I didn't get mine until last year when I turned 33! It's the greek word for "freedom" on my back----ELEUTHERIA. It comes from a verse in the Bible that says "It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery." (Galatians 5:1)

Thanks to everyone who has shared so far! We're all so unique!

Interesting - just wondering. Why would a person choose to have a tattoo if it did not communicate something to others that can see it? If it communicates something that they did not mean to communicate – should they not be sensitive and open to that possibility?

The Traveler

[HEthePrimate]

I have a large tattoo of the First Vision covering my entire back. It's a great missionary tool! I walk around shirtless (admittedly, though, not on freezing cold days), and inevitably people will ask me questions. You wouldn't believe how many referrals I give the missionaries!

(Probably because it's not true! Heheheh!)

HEP

[ferretrunner]

What is the point of a tattoo? Maybe someone can explain this to me. I promise I won't bash, but I do want to see if anyone can provide a worthwhile answer. What's the long-term benefit?

I think it depends on the individual person. Most people I have talked to who have tattoos got them for a reason; a memorial, a tribute to someone, commemorating an event, etc. Here's an interesting read about tattoos in the Army: Tattoos and the Army: a long and colorful tradition

My tattoo is a memorial for my first three ferrets. It represents their connection to me and that we will meet again. They are gone but not forgotten and they are waiting for me in the next world. Not necessarily a "mormon" belief but it's mine.

The purpose for me is a memorial and an expression of my individuality.

[ferretrunner]

No he wasn't. He was a flight engineer and an aircraft mechanic in the Navy. He knew more about planes than anyone I know. He will forever be remembered for his airplane stories. Every talk he ever gave in church had an airplane story that he could bring into his talk. So at his funeral...I gave the eulogy and what did it include? Airplane stories.

On his grave stone there is an engraving of a C-130. He passed away in March of this year.

I'm sorry for your loss.

[lattelady]

Traveler, to answer your question: "Why would a person choose to have a tattoo if it did not communicate something to others that can't see it?" I guess there are quite a few reasons people get tattoos. The person I wanted to communicate "Freedom" to was myself. Freedom is a message that is for everyone, obviously; but my tattoo was about communicating "Freedom" to myself. Not "freedom to show off my tattoo," but freedom from alot of things that are personal to my experience. My choice to get a tattoo was to get something on my body that would be a forever-reminder to me--FOR ME. But I don't judge anyone who's desire to get a tattoo is to show it off (unless they're showing off a part of their body that would be inappropriate.

[MsQwerty]

Once upon a time tattoos were the symbols of toughness for sailors or rough, tough men in both legal and illegal professions. My biological father was one of those men of a former generation for whom tattoos were a stamp of toughness. Tattoos were associated with big, bad, bikies and professional boxers - and I suppose it's those historically negative connotations that were partly behind the church's opposition to them. Recently I read a book about women convicts who were shipped off to the colonies from England, and many of them were identified in ship's logs by their tattoos. Most would have the names of their husbands or children tattooed on their bodies, or a special year to mark an event like marriage, that sort of thing. It's interesting to me that tattoos were once something you only got when you were either living outside the moral mainstream of society, or if you were a criminal. Nowadays it's simply an expression of individuality or body-art. I wonder what people of those generations who had to 'earn' their tattoos would think of the purely decorative aspect of body-art today?

Personally, I've never had a desire to mark my body permanently with ink...the very thought actually makes me shiver. I know many people who have lots of tattoos and while I can admire the artwork or the sentiments behind them, I don't actually like the idea of it. Today I saw a girl walking in a shopping center with a large eagle tattooed across her breastbone - I thought it looked horrible quite honestly. Does that make me a very horrible, intolerant person? Am I abnormal for NOT liking tattoos?

Edited September 24, 2009 by MsQwerty
typo

[Guest]

Once upon a time tattoos were the symbols of toughness for sailors or rough, tough men in both legal and illegal professions. My biological father was one of those men of a former generation for whom tattoos were a stamp of toughness. Tattoos were associated with big, bad, bikies and professional boxers - and I suppose it's those historically negative connotations that were partly behind the church's opposition to them. Recently I read a book about women convicts who were shipped off to the colonies from England, and many of them were identified in ship's logs by their tattoos. Most would have the names of their husbands or children tattooed on their bodies, or a special year to mark an event like marriage, that sort of thing. It's interesting to me that tattoos were once something you only got when you were either living outside the moral mainstream of society, or if you were a criminal. Nowadays it's simply an expression of individuality or body-art. I wonder what people of those generations who had to 'earn' their tattoos would think of the purely decorative aspect of body-art today?

Personally, I've never had a desire to mark my body permanently with ink...the very thought actually makes me shiver. I know many people who have lots of tattoos and while I can admire the artwork or the sentiments behind them, I don't actually like the idea of it. Today I saw a girl walking in a shopping center with a large eagle tattooed across her breastbone - I thought it looked horrible quite honestly. Does that make me a very horrible, intolerant person? Am I abnormal for NOT liking tattoos?

Hopefully not, because I feel the same way (even before I became LDS). I guess for me it is like graffitti. Some can be very dashing and artsy. Some can even be Van Gogh quality. But, it's still graffitti. And on a temple... I don't think even Van Gogh himself could make it non-graffitti. What makes it worse than graffitti for me though is the permanence of it. You can always paint over graffitti. Not so much with a tattoo.

I do sport tattoos on certain occassions - like football games, or going to Disney. They usually come off the next day, but sometimes, if I'm careful not to scrub too much on the area, I can wear it for 2 days. Yes, it's graffitti still, but it comes off easy.

My grandfather has a tattoo on his arm. Everybody in his unit got the same design with some number on it when they fought in World War II. A lot of times, soldiers get separated from their dog tags so the tattoo serves as an ID in case they end up dead in a ditch somewhere.

Now to the original subject of this thread... my symbol is a vanda sanderiana orchid. I just decided that right now, this very minute, thinking about what would symbolize my uniqueness. The vanda sanderiana went on the endangered species list some 40 years or so ago. But, with research and care, Filipinos were able to bring it out of the endangered species list. It is one of the things that made me so proud of my country.

I can never make this a tattoo because I am fairly sure if you ask me this question 20 years from now, I'll have a different answer and I'll just be looking at that permanent symbol on my arm wondering, what in the world was I thinking, and now I'll have to live with it.

[Generally_Me]

Once upon a time tattoos were the symbols of toughness for sailors or rough, tough men in both legal and illegal professions. My biological father was one of those men of a former generation for whom tattoos were a stamp of toughness. Tattoos were associated with big, bad, bikies and professional boxers - and I suppose it's those historically negative connotations that were partly behind the church's opposition to them. Recently I read a book about women convicts who were shipped off to the colonies from England, and many of them were identified in ship's logs by their tattoos. Most would have the names of their husbands or children tattooed on their bodies, or a special year to mark an event like marriage, that sort of thing. It's interesting to me that tattoos were once something you only got when you were either living outside the moral mainstream of society, or if you were a criminal. Nowadays it's simply an expression of individuality or body-art. I wonder what people of those generations who had to 'earn' their tattoos would think of the purely decorative aspect of body-art today?

Deary, go back a little bit further, and expand your research. There are many cultures and many time periods in this world that have used tattoos. They have represented everything from power and accomplishments, to crimes, to "medicinal healings", to beauty marks, depending on the culture and the tattoo and the time period.

For example, In Filipinno tribes, tattoos used to be a sign of beauty (Not sure if they still are). In Japan, it had spiritualistic backgrounds. I'm sure you've heard of the Samoan tradition, which still is going on after 2000 years. Celts had blue designs based on nature.

Heck, research upper class England during the 19th century, you'll find out about tattoos galore (they were in fashion).

The reason tattoos became known as sailor marks is because back in the day, sailors and the navy would travel to Japan, to the islands, and would get exotic looking tattoos to prove they had been there.

Actually, the only cultures I know of that prohibit tattooing are Islam, Jewish and Christian. Even then most Christians interpret Lev. 19:28 to refer to the self-mutilation mourners used to do when their loved ones passed on.

[Generally_Me]

And no it does not make you a horrible person. There are some very distasteful tattoos out there, and some that have no meaning whatsoever behind them. Also if your culture and your background is, "tatto means tough guy" or "means gang member" or whatever, it is only natural to have an aversion when you see one in public.

[MsQwerty]

Deary, go back a little bit further, and expand your research. There are many cultures and many time periods in this world that have used tattoos. They have represented everything from power and accomplishments, to crimes, to "medicinal healings", to beauty marks, depending on the culture and the tattoo and the time period.

For example, In Filipinno tribes, tattoos used to be a sign of beauty (Not sure if they still are). In Japan, it had spiritualistic backgrounds. I'm sure you've heard of the Samoan tradition, which still is going on after 2000 years. Celts had blue designs based on nature.

Heck, research upper class England during the 19th century, you'll find out about tattoos galore (they were in fashion).

The reason tattoos became known as sailor marks is because back in the day, sailors and the navy would travel to Japan, to the islands, and would get exotic looking tattoos to prove they had been there.

Actually, the only cultures I know of that prohibit tattooing are Islam, Jewish and Christian. Even then most Christians interpret Lev. 19:28 to refer to the self-mutilation mourners used to do when their loved ones passed on.

Don't call me 'Deary' - I find it patronising and rude. Thanks.

Thanks too for the cultural enlightenment - and I might add that as one who works in an exceptionally multicultural field, I am well aware of the significance of tattoos for certain groups. Still, I appreciate you sharing your obviously vast historical knowledge of the subject.

Your comments about the 19th century aristocracy in England have some basis in fact, although tattooing wasn't as common among this group as you'd suggest. The occasional member of royalty and a select few followers who were trying to curry favour hardly consitute evidence that this was common practice among the wealthy. In fact, the majority of men who had tattoos during Victorian times were soldiers and sailors - men who 'earned' their stripes with life experience and travel, so to speak. Tattooing was also also preached against by social commentators of the time who associated tattoos with prostitutes and criminals (like the women and men who ended up being transported to various penal settlements and who were then identified by their body markings).

Either way, I'm not interested in getting into a slanging match based on who can dig up unsubstantiated 'research' from google links. What I was referring to earlier was the more recent western obsession with decorative 'body-art' for its own sake, and the fact that it is no longer considered the domain of stereotypical 'toughness' and masculinity.

Again, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

Edited September 25, 2009 by MsQwerty
typo.

[MsQwerty]

And no it does not make you a horrible person. There are some very distasteful tattoos out there, and some that have no meaning whatsoever behind them. Also if your culture and your background is, "tatto means tough guy" or "means gang member" or whatever, it is only natural to have an aversion when you see one in public.

My 'culture' means the men in the last generation of my family have tattoos as marks of toughness, of military or prison experience. To them it means they are strong, physically and mentally tough, travelled, been through a war or two, done a spell in prison, seen a lot of life, that sort of thing. I've never seen those particular tattoos as anything 'bad', quite the opposite actually.

However I have just never had that desire to decorate myself permanently. There's just nothing in me that wants it and when I've ever thought about it, all I feel is a natural aversion. I feel the same way about eating brussells sprouts.

[Jamie123]

I feel the same way about eating brussells sprouts.

You've gotta have brussells sprouts with your Christmas turkey! It's the law!

[pam]

I guess I have broken two laws then. I don't have brussell sprouts nor do I have Christmas turkey.

[lattelady]

I LOVE brussell sprouts--I grew up eating a ton of them--and cooked cabbage. I really, really love it when we go to Cracker Barrell nowadays with our kids and the veggie of the day is cooked cabbage. Comfort food! (That'd be another good 'General thread'!).