wanting to convert...can't get past some things...

[Threeve]

Personally, I do not see an issue with coffee or tea. I love tea, and I find some of them to be very healthful. I have a very different view on the word of wisdom. Things that you are addicted to, probably you would be a lot better off going with out. Addiction is never a good thing, but remember you can be addicted to other things not forbidden such as sugar or caffinated soda. We are suppossed to eat meat sparenly, as it says in DC, but most of us can get a recommend if we eat meat three meals a day.

My husband drinks like 15 Dr. Peppers a week. I think that's worse than having a cup of joe occasionally, or even a glass of wine once a week with dinner. Some bishops will still give you your reccomend, even if you drink coffee or tea, others are more strict.

[Bini]

Personally, I do not see an issue with coffee or tea. I love tea, and I find some of them to be very healthful. I have a very different view on the word of wisdom. Things that you are addicted to, probably you would be a lot better off going with out. Addiction is never a good thing, but remember you can be addicted to other things not forbidden such as sugar or caffinated soda. We are suppossed to eat meat sparenly, as it says in DC, but most of us can get a recommend if we eat meat three meals a day.

My husband drinks like 15 Dr. Peppers a week. I think that's worse than having a cup of joe occasionally, or even a glass of wine once a week with dinner. Some bishops will still give you your reccomend, even if you drink coffee or tea, others are more strict.

I believe you on this. I have worked with some older folks that drank coffee and tea all day long. Many of them active members of the Church and I'm pretty sure a handful of them continued to go to the temple.

[JohnnyRudick]

I believe you on this. I have worked with some older folks that drank coffee and tea all day long. Many of them active members of the Church and I'm pretty sure a handful of them continued to go to the temple.

I wonder as time goes on how many other things will be winked at.

I knew a counselor to a Bishop who kept a well stocked fridge of beer in his garage.

Oh, well:rolleyes:

[beefche]

Ok, people, despite stories to the contrary, anyone who wishes to be baptized into the Church (and be worthy to receive a temple recommend) must commit to the Word of Wisdom, which means one will not consume alcohol of any kind, tea, coffee, or tobacco of any kind.

So, please don't sidetrack the discussion with exceptions that you know or observed.

[Bini]

Sorry, beefche! Noted :]

[JohnnyRudick]

Ok, people, despite stories to the contrary, anyone who wishes to be baptized into the Church (and be worthy to receive a temple recommend) must commit to the Word of Wisdom, which means one will not consume alcohol of any kind, tea, coffee, or tobacco of any kind.

So, please don't sidetrack the discussion with exceptions that you know or observed.

Sorry, I was not making excuses.

I was bemoaning:bawl:

[Threeve]

Sorry, just putting in my two cents. I interpret the WOW a little different, and apparently so do a lot of bishops. lol

[Still_Small_Voice]

DanceintheDark,

I don't know if you are still reading the posts on this subject that you posted. But my knowledge of this church being true does not found on Joseph Smith. I have faith that he was a prophet, but my faith centers on Christ. I have faith that Jesus Christ visited the people on the American continent after His resurrection.

I have faith that Jesus Christ reveals what is needed for us to walk with Him back to the presence of the Father through his modern day prophet. Once you gain a knowledge of this all of the other details will fall into place.

[JohnnyRudick]

DanceintheDark,

I don't know if you are still reading the posts on this subject that you posted. But my knowledge of this church being true does not found on Joseph Smith. I have faith that he was a prophet,

but my faith centers on Christ.

I have faith that Jesus Christ visited the people on the American continent after His resurrection.

I have faith that Jesus Christ reveals what is needed for us to walk with Him back to the presence of the Father through his modern day prophet. Once you gain a knowledge of this all of the other details will fall into place.

This is the whole point of the matter:)

[silvermoon]

You say that you grew up learning to question everything, so why do you have a hard time reading the Book Of Mormon? How can you question something you know nothing of? After you read it would be the better time to ask questions because after you read you are more informed and can know the questions to ask. And no, you are not reading it just because someone told you to. You are reading it because you want answers and information and that is a source you can go to get answers and information.

Remember that the most important part of reading it is also praying to know that it is real and true.

[pam]

Sorry, just putting in my two cents. I interpret the WOW a little different, and apparently so do a lot of bishops. lol

I've been a member for 52 years and I have never known a Bishop that would give a temple recommend knowing you drank coffee or tea.

[john doe]

I also have never heard of a bishop since the 1970s knowingly give a temple recommend to someone who drinks coffee or tea.

[prisonchaplain]

I'm sometimes surprised by what does and does not cause people trouble about the church. As much as I appreciate coffee, if Joseph Smith is a prophet of God, and he says God says no, then no it is. It would be somewhat painful for me to give up, but not something that would cause me to doubt. Likewise other common issues: polygamy and gold digging. Just as FYI, for me it would be doctrinal concerns--especially those matters that keep LDS separated from us: The Great Apostasy, Premortal Existence, God's nature, Human nature and the potential for godhood, and the disconnect between the traditional view of Christianity (heaven vs. hell) and that of your faith (3 kingdoms and an outer darkness). In some cases the LDS teachings are more attractive. Irregardless, they are incompatible with traditional teaching, and so are to me great hurdles.

[Threeve]

I think we would be surprised, I personally know of two, and I know some people who drink tea or coffee and have a recommend, their bishop knows. They are out there, rare, but they exist. lol

[john doe]

I think we would be surprised, I personally know of two, and I know some people who drink tea or coffee and have a recommend, their bishop knows. They are out there, rare, but they exist. lol

Why do you think that's funny?

[Bini]

^

I don't find the situation funny but I have no doubt they exist. The biggest hurdle for my husband and me is kicking the coffee and beer habit. I actually haven't had coffee in a bit but hubby likes to unwind with a couple beers in hand every night. It's proven to be a had habit to break but I'm hoping by my interest and example in the Church, that some of it might rub off on him and he'll make the effort in committing to quit, and seeing its importance.

[Threeve]

Am I not allowed to or some thing? O.o

Just reminds me of my old friend, I told her about my bishop's view on tea, and she said he shouldn't be a bishop any more. She thinks if some one isn't 100% honest, or a 100% tithe payer, or 100% strict observance of the Word of Wisdom, should have their temple recommend taken away. Yet, this same person's brother in law didn't have his taken away at his interview, even after he confessed he hit his kid once. His bishop said not to do it again, and let him slide, and signed his recommend. My friend agreed with the bishop.

There are worse things that are overlooked than having a glass of tea, I think. Basically, it comes down to the bishop's decision, some times we don't agree with it, but it's up to them. Every one messes up once in a while.

EDIT: I just wanted to say, all though I have tried this site out and I really don't know if I'll be coming back, I have gone through a lot of every one's posts, here. I have found a lot of thought provoking issues being brought up. Thanks for your views, some really good ideas have been expressed here. I wish you all well.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Threeve

[Vort]

I also have never heard of a bishop since the 1970s knowingly give a temple recommend to someone who drinks coffee or tea.

My grandma died in the mid-1980s and my grandpa in the mid-1990s. They both worked in the temple, and AFAIK they both continued to drink coffee (I think they switched to Sanka in the 1970s) throughout their lives.

Not disagreeing with the spirit of what you're saying -- I would be mightily surprised at a bishop today giving a temple recommend to someone who blatantly violated the word of wisdom by drinking coffee, even Sanka.

[Generally_Me]

Am I not allowed to or some thing? O.o

Just reminds me of my old friend, I told her about my bishop's view on tea, and she said he shouldn't be a bishop any more. She thinks if some one isn't 100% honest, or a 100% tithe payer, or 100% strict observance of the Word of Wisdom, should have their temple recommend taken away. Yet, this same person's brother in law didn't have his taken away at his interview, even after he confessed he hit his kid once. His bishop said not to do it again, and let him slide, and signed his recommend. My friend agreed with the bishop.

There are worse things that are overlooked than having a glass of tea, I think. Basically, it comes down to the bishop's decision, some times we don't agree with it, but it's up to them. Every one messes up once in a while.

I thought that if someone isn't 100% tithe payer, WoW observerer and honest, they didn't get a temple recommend? Even those who mess up once in a while need to repent, confess, and do their best to not mess up again.

He hit his kid once, showed remorse and said he wouldn't do it again. I don't see the issue here? Especially since there are a lot of parents who use spanking and slapping as discipline. Is the church going to remove everyone's temple recommend, when they spank? When spanking isn't illegal?

[JohnnyRudick]

I think we would be surprised, I personally know of two, and I know some people who drink tea or coffee and have a recommend, their bishop knows. They are out there, rare, but they exist. lol

I am alarmed that you may be right and I don't find that funny one little bit:eek:

[JohnnyRudick]

I thought that if someone isn't 100% tithe payer, WoW observerer and honest, they didn't get a temple recommend? Even those who mess up once in a while need to repent, confess, and do their best to not mess up again.

He hit his kid once, showed remorse and said he wouldn't do it again. I don't see the issue here? Especially since there are a lot of parents who use spanking and slapping as discipline. Is the church going to remove everyone's temple recommend, when they spank? When spanking isn't illegal?

I really don't have a problem with what I will call "proper spanking".

That is when you are not "mad at the kid" and both of you know why

this sessin of the "laying on of hands" is being administered.

But your logic does not follow.

Yes "spanking" is not (strictly speaking) illegal, but neither is coffee or Sanka.

I figure you did not mean that exactly as stated. Well, yes and no but. . .

[Threeve]

Sorry, guys I promise to leave. xD I was just checking my mail box... but for the record.. I never said "spank" or a little "slap". I said hit, and I mean hit, the child had a bruise. His wife also made him confess, that didn't seem to be remorseful to me. No time to think about what you did, no weeks repenting, no suspension of the temple recommend, "just don't do it again."

It angers me that it was taken so lightly, maybe as much as it angers some of you that some one had some coffee and got into the temple. That's silly to me, too, but we all have different opinions, I guess. But coming from an abusive family, maybe I'm just more sensitive to abusive situations.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Threeve

[JohnnyRudick]

Sorry, guys I promise to leave. xD I was just checking my mail box... but for the record.. I never said "spank" or a little "slap". I said hit, and I mean hit, the child had a bruise. His wife also made him confess, that didn't seem to be remorseful to me. No time to think about what you did, no weeks repenting, no suspension of the temple recommend, "just don't do it again."

It angers me that it was taken so lightly, maybe as much as it angers some of you that some one had some coffee and got into the temple. That's silly to me, too, but we all have different opinions, I guess. But coming from an abusive family, maybe I'm just more sensitive to abusive situations.

It is all too bad:mellow:

I am very sorry for your frustration but one thing wrong

does not make a different thing OK.

To hit a child or anyone else out of anger is close to unexcuseable

and if true he should have been examined very closely.

I am not sure he wasn't.

You don't really know

what you think you know about this I am very certain.

I have to give the Bishop the benefit of his position.

It will work out.

You just have to give it time.

I too have seen a lot over time and have seen the

outcome a couple of times also.

God does run this Church.

[marshac]

As a convert, I can say one thing. You don't have to know it all/have a testimony of it all to join. Joining is the first step, and it is a lot easier to learn with the Holy Spirit as a guide than without. I used to think I had to know it all

What you say is so true. When I first joined, I thought of the book of mormon as allegorical and Joseph Smith as a very charismatic guy who liked women.... I had done a lot of research on the church and spent days (months?) researching. I had problems with certain things, but even still, I went ahead and joined.... despite everything else, it just felt right.

Inspiration was slow to come- Baptism? I felt wet. Confirmation? I felt absolutely nothing. Receiving the Aaronic priesthood? Zilch.

The first glimmer I had was when I bought my first quad and brought it home- upon opening it and feeling it in my hands, I just had this feeling that Joseph Smith was a prophet... it was a nice warm peaceful feeling. Interesting.

The second happened much more recently when I received the Melchizedek priesthood- not so much during, but (about a day) after. Now I have this overwhelming desire to be 'worthy' of my priesthood- something I never gave a second thought to before. Also, when I think about my membership in the chruch, i'm just overwhelmed with joy. My radioactive biohazard zombie wallpaper has been replaced with a photo of a closeup of the words found on a temple- "HOLINESS TO THE LORD THE HOUSE OF THE LORD". For reasons I can't explain, i've gone all in.

President Uchtdorf's talk during this Sat AM session was exactly what I needed to hear. Keep trying. For reasons I can't explain, and really don't care to even try to explain anymore, I am trying.

So yeah- I certainly did not have a complete testimony before. Do I now? Who knows. I do know that it didn't come all at once, and that joining was simply the first step.

[ladykemma2]

honestly, i joined the church anyway, and didn't worry about quitting coffee until like ten years later when i finally was ready to go to the temple.

I'm still here.