Self Proclaming GAY MORMONS

[Ophiophagus]

Its so funny that there's a thread about Survivor!! Cause I have all the seasons. but one thing that has bothered this convert (me) to the point of abandoning the show is the rampant way the producers try to make Mormons look bad. You may not feel this way but I do. "Gay Mormons" Nudist Mormons." I know the show is not the most spiritually uplifting, I know the profit is not watching it. But that is not my point. To my point (which isn't even the shows degrading of Mormon principles. But my question is about gay Mormons. and especially a SELF PROCLAIMING gay Mormon. But for the record. I dont know what to think about gay people in the first place.

But my question is why would you claim to be part of something that condemns your way of life. Being gay and claiming to be a Mormon implies that you support Mormonism. I just dont get it. you can not claim to be a Mormon but not completely support what the leader of our church proclaims. and to break it down to the nitty gritty. The prophet is the mouth piece of GOD!

if you believe that then you must understand that GOD him self does not support your way of life. of course he supports YOU, bla bla bla just not your actions, bla bla bla.

If God condems it then it is wrong.

if you claim to have no choice about who you are (being gay). Why would God condemn something that you have no control over.

Im not choosing sides here.

[LostSheep]

God doesn't condemn ANYONE for being gay. He condemns them for ACTING on it. I believe that like everyone else, "gay people" have spiritual trials to overcome. I don't believe that saying "It's just the way I am." is a good excuse at all. Everyone has a choice.

[prisonchaplain]

A priest once told me about "cafeteria Catholics." They identify with the church, may attend, but they support abortions rights, consider divorce no big deal, may support the death penalty, encourage birth control, etc. They figure they can just pick and choose what they like in the religion--like a cafeteria. It should be noted that the term is used with a strong dose of derision.

[Bini]

I'm a sympathizer and that's because my nephew is gay.

I don't believe that all people choose to be gay. While it seems to be a trend to experiment with one's sexual orientation, I strongly feel that some people are born that way, for whatever reason. My BIL has said that he felt his son had certain mannerisms at an early age that seemed more feminine than masculine, so it was no surprise when he finally came out last year, when he turned 18. Anyway, he is a baptized member of the Church but inactive. I don't see him very often so I don't know how he currently lives his personal life. What he does is his business. But I'm proud of him for being true to himself and not trying to live a life that is not him.

Having said all that. Everyone has trials to overcome in this life and those trials are disguised in so many forms. In the end, it is the Lord that judges us, not us judging each other. I know that my nephew is a good man and does his best to live a good life. The Lord isn't blind, he knows who we truly are and what is in our hearts. And I know He doesn't abandon his lost sheep.

[Ophiophagus]

LS. So you are saying even if they are truly gay they are not permitted to act on it? Wow, that would suck.

For the record I love women, I mean A woman. And I fully know there is only ONE proper family structure. But to help I need to understand.

Bini. Didn't Gandhi worship cows?

Im kidding!!

Edited October 5, 2009 by Ophiophagus
Fun

[LostSheep]

I'm not an expert on the subject...I'm not gay. lol

[FunkyTown]

Something that might not be taken in to consideration:

The church is a very strongly cultural phenomenon: There are practicing Mormons, non-practicing Mormons, people who are Mormon by their ancestry and people who consider it a part of who they are.

I would suspect it would be like someone who claims to be Jewish while eating bacon double cheeseburgers.

[pam]

LS. So you are saying even if they are truly gay they are not permitted to act on it? Wow, that would suck.

For the record I love women, I mean A woman. And I fully know there is only ONE proper family structure. But to help I need to understand.

Bini. Didn't Gandhi worship cows?

Im kidding!!

Does not the Church hold to the law of chastity? This would include those of SSA. The Church doesn't consider SSA a sin...it's when they act upon it that it is. Same as for heterosexuals.

[LDSVALLEY]

I"ve had gay friends before and have gay relatives. It does not change who the people are. I believe based on experience and conversation that some people are wired attracted to the same sex. people can have an attraction to some degree to the same sex no matter who we are. I also believe this age of tolerance is pushing many of those who could be happy either way over to the homosexual side. Especially the young. Lets face it most people find it easier to understand the same sex when we are first starting out. If it is socially acceptable to be gay then more are going to at least explore it. And for some it is a way to find acceptance in a world they feel they don;t fit into. We are becoming an isloationist society and tecnology and medical issues are increasing that trend.

I don't judge people based on their sexual preference anymore then on what religion they are. Nor do I think the church is wrong in its policies on the subject. I am sure with the acceptance of Gay marriages they will face many trials as people battle it does not violate the law of Chastity. But I leave that to the leadership to deal with.

The first "Mormon" I met after joining the church was a coworker. He put down his cigerette and coffee to shake my hand and invited me out for a ***** beer afterward. Not kidding. People can call themselves what ever they want. I Know people who are a particular religion accourding to them but have never set foot in a church since the parents had them baptized as infants. My coworker claimed he was Mormon. Those on TV claim this or that.

The scriputres tell us we are not saved by name only but by our actions and thoughts. If they want to pretend to be what they wish to be fine. If the rest of the world wants to use them as an example again fine. I know what it means to be Mormon and do my best to be one. The Lord will judge me and them accordingly. I don't worry about calling myself a Mormon, I simply am one.

[Guest]

I used to be a cafeteria Catholic... actually, I called it, a'la carte Catholic. I didn't do the rosary and all that. In my case, it wasn't that I didn't want to follow the teachings. It was just that I didn't feel it was right. But, I truly felt at the time that the Catholic church was the one and only church with the proper authority, so I couldn't abandon it. I made the best of it. But, I sure wouldn't go out on TV proclaiming how I'm Catholic and say the rosary is of the devil. But then, that's just me. For what it's worth, I think Survivor just uses gay mormons in that sense for the shock factor and just so they can get curious audience to bump up their ratings. It all boils down to the almighty dollar with these things.

[Hemidakota]

Its so funny that there's a thread about Survivor!! Cause I have all the seasons. but one thing that has bothered this convert (me) to the point of abandoning the show is the rampant way the producers try to make Mormons look bad. You may not feel this way but I do. "Gay Mormons" Nudist Mormons." I know the show is not the most spiritually uplifting, I know the profit is not watching it. But that is not my point. To my point (which isn't even the shows degrading of Mormon principles. But my question is about gay Mormons. and especially a SELF PROCLAIMING gay Mormon. But for the record. I dont know what to think about gay people in the first place.

But my question is why would you claim to be part of something that condemns your way of life. Being gay and claiming to be a Mormon implies that you support Mormonism. I just dont get it. you can not claim to be a Mormon but not completely support what the leader of our church proclaims. and to break it down to the nitty gritty. The prophet is the mouth piece of GOD!

if you believe that then you must understand that GOD him self does not support your way of life. of course he supports YOU, bla bla bla just not your actions, bla bla bla.

If God condems it then it is wrong.

if you claim to have no choice about who you are (being gay). Why would God condemn something that you have no control over.

Im not choosing sides here.

Perhaps, people need five-seconds of worldly fame in demonstrating there underlying agendas to others.

But I do agree, unless we forsake the world, sins, or any agenda that is not of Christ, they will be removed or left to the demise of the Adversary.

Our mortal goal is put away our own will and do the Lord’s will and build the kingdom before there is closure by the Spirit.

[Hemidakota]

I"ve had gay friends before and have gay relatives. It does not change who the people are. I believe based on experience and conversation that some people are wired attracted to the same sex. people can have an attraction to some degree to the same sex no matter who we are. I also believe this age of tolerance is pushing many of those who could be happy either way over to the homosexual side. Especially the young. Lets face it most people find it easier to understand the same sex when we are first starting out. If it is socially acceptable to be gay then more are going to at least explore it. And for some it is a way to find acceptance in a world they feel they don;t fit into. We are becoming an isloationist society and tecnology and medical issues are increasing that trend.

I don't judge people based on their sexual preference anymore then on what religion they are. Nor do I think the church is wrong in its policies on the subject. I am sure with the acceptance of Gay marriages they will face many trials as people battle it does not violate the law of Chastity. But I leave that to the leadership to deal with.

The first "Mormon" I met after joining the church was a coworker. He put down his cigerette and coffee to shake my hand and invited me out for a ***** beer afterward. Not kidding. People can call themselves what ever they want. I Know people who are a particular religion accourding to them but have never set foot in a church since the parents had them baptized as infants. My coworker claimed he was Mormon. Those on TV claim this or that.

The scriputres tell us we are not saved by name only but by our actions and thoughts. If they want to pretend to be what they wish to be fine. If the rest of the world wants to use them as an example again fine. I know what it means to be Mormon and do my best to be one. The Lord will judge me and them accordingly. I don't worry about calling myself a Mormon, I simply am one.

Hopefully that is not case on being wired...is a serial murder also wired? The answer is NO! Neither will the church or GOD change its eternal course for those who failed to seek correction in their lives. Nor will doctrine ever change for the world or culture sake. This is an eternal law and it will never change. No matter what part of the universe you are located, the eternal laws are the same; no matter the GOD who is the Creator of such , will enforce this same eternal law to its children.

It is when we cave to that weakness that causes to us to fall and make excuses on the why. We are given a probationary period in seeking help from GOD in putting away our natural man. Neither should members seek to cover-up any sin with excuses for others. The judgment is plain and simple. Speaking of the prophets of the past, Joshua, “…seek ye this day to serve God…”

Now, looking on what ordinance was violated during the days of Noah will only return the days of calamities for the church and this nation. It is the turning point on which the Savior unleashes its henchmen [destroying Angels] on the world.

It would be wise for us to listen the prophets [the brethren] today on what is the Lord way and not our way.

[Vort]

But I'm proud of him for being true to himself and not trying to live a life that is not him.

If, as a teen and young man, I were to have been similarly "true to myself" and refused to "live a life that was not me", I would have fornicated incessantly and with many girls, lied and cheated my way through school, and figured out a way to torture and perhaps kill those I didn't like. Instead, I subjected myself to civilization and tried to live by the precepts of the gospel.

Today, I still exert effort to avoid such evils as I mentioned, but I believe I am very much better for having chosen to live by principle rather than "being true to myself."

So why exactly do you feel proud of someone for having chosen the lesser part? I have never understood that line of reasoning.

[Islander]

"Seduction and rationalization are the favorite past times of the devil" grandma' just to say.

The argument here should be mute. People are free to do as they please. There are not however, free to attempt to force their belief system on the rest of us or compel society to accept their philosophical bent.

God has spoken on the subject of sexuality. The doctrine has been laid before us for a long time. It is God whom will judge those that corrupted his doctrine and broken the ordinance and everlasting covenant. It is on their heads.

[Bini]

If, as a teen and young man, I were to have been similarly "true to myself" and refused to "live a life that was not me", I would have fornicated incessantly and with many girls, lied and cheated my way through school, and figured out a way to torture and perhaps kill those I didn't like. Instead, I subjected myself to civilization and tried to live by the precepts of the gospel.

Today, I still exert effort to avoid such evils as I mentioned, but I believe I am very much better for having chosen to live by principle rather than "being true to myself."

So why exactly do you feel proud of someone for having chosen the lesser part? I have never understood that line of reasoning.

We disagree.

Your sense of being "true" to yourself is different from mine. Being promiscuous, a cheat and a premeditated murderer is a choice. I don't believe you are born that way. I see no comparison.

[Vort]

If, as a teen and young man, I were to have been similarly "true to myself" and refused to "live a life that was not me", I would have fornicated incessantly and with many girls, lied and cheated my way through school, and figured out a way to torture and perhaps kill those I didn't like. Instead, I subjected myself to civilization and tried to live by the precepts of the gospel.

Today, I still exert effort to avoid such evils as I mentioned, but I believe I am very much better for having chosen to live by principle rather than "being true to myself."

So why exactly do you feel proud of someone for having chosen the lesser part? I have never understood that line of reasoning.

We disagree.

That much is obvious.

Your sense of being "true" to yourself is different from mine.

How so?

Being promiscuous, a cheat and a premeditated murderer is a choice.

So is engaging in anal sex.

I don't believe you are born that way.

You are wrong. I assure you, it is completely natural to me to want to fornicate with multiple women. It is completely natural to me to want to get maximum return with minimum effort. And it is completely natural to me to want to revenge myself on those who mistreat me. All of these things are completely, utterly natural to me.

I see no comparison.

None is so blind as she who will not see.

[Bini]

You can think what you want.

[Vort]

You can think what you want.

Thanks. Actually, I already knew that.

Still waiting for your reasoned response to what I wrote.

[Bini]

Thanks. Actually, I already knew that.

Still waiting for your reasoned response to what I wrote.

You'll be waiting a long time, Vort.

I have no interest in explaining what I think, feel and believe to you. We agree to disagree.

[Vort]

You'll be waiting a long time, Vort.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured. When you can't defend a proposition or give a cogent, reasoned argument to back up your opinion, just trot out the tired "agree to disagree" line.

[hordak]

Vort is spot on. I actually wanted to start an advocacy group for thoughs of us who suffer from MPA (multiple partner attraction). As a "lampoon" but fear people will miss the joke and take it seriously.

[ADoyle90815]

I would think that the only thing worse than being born gay and LDS is being a JW and a fan of vampire stories. (This is meant as sarcasm)

Getting back to the topic, I have a cousin who was born gay, so when he finally came out, none of us were surprised at all. We still accept and love him unconditionally as he is a family member.

Edited October 5, 2009 by ADoyle90815

[Traveler]

I'm a sympathizer and that's because my nephew is gay.

I don't believe that all people choose to be gay. While it seems to be a trend to experiment with one's sexual orientation, I strongly feel that some people are born that way, for whatever reason. My BIL has said that he felt his son had certain mannerisms at an early age that seemed more feminine than masculine, so it was no surprise when he finally came out last year, when he turned 18. Anyway, he is a baptized member of the Church but inactive. I don't see him very often so I don't know how he currently lives his personal life. What he does is his business. But I'm proud of him for being true to himself and not trying to live a life that is not him.

Having said all that. Everyone has trials to overcome in this life and those trials are disguised in so many forms. In the end, it is the Lord that judges us, not us judging each other. I know that my nephew is a good man and does his best to live a good life. The Lord isn't blind, he knows who we truly are and what is in our hearts. And I know He doesn't abandon his lost sheep.

For the record – I believe that humans are intelligent. That is that they are capable of learning and modifying their cognitive behavior. Also during the Vietnam era I was in the military and spent some time attached to an Army Intelligent unit where I learned a great deal about brainwashing. In particular what is called the lowest cognitive level of learning and the next to lowest cognitive level of learning.

It is important to know and understand that any cognitive response of an intelligent species is know and been proven to be capable of modification through various “learning” techniques. There are many “acquired” behaviors that become addictive and are more difficult to modify than others but that does not mean impossible. Also – there is no scientific proof that demonstrates that any cognitive behavior is innate at birth of any intelligent species.

The great objection I have to the debates associated with homosexual (or for that manner most any human sexual behavior) is that such discussions are charged more with fantasy than fact or truth. The arguments seem to be based more in emotions than in reality.

The Traveler

[sixpacktr]

I would like to 'come out' here on this forum. I am a male lesbian. I also have a weakness for free-basing cocaine. It seems unfair to me that I can't act on either of these as it brings me happiness, and I am thereby being true to myself.

It sounds ridiculous when put in this context, and just as ridiculous when put in the context that it isn't 'fair' for gays to act upon their impulses.

We all have impulses. We all have selfish desires. We all have the opportunity to overcome them and become like our Heavenly Father and return to him.

There is a great line in 'Ender's Game' by Orson Scott Card. Colonel Graff and Ender are talking about fairness, and while I don't have the book with me to quote it verbatim, the gist of the idea is that we aren't entitled to happiness, only doing what we are expected to do. Luckily, our HF DOES want us to be happy (his definition, not our very small viewpointed one), but not at the expense of being obedient. And as Lehi said, wickedness never was happiness...

Edited October 5, 2009 by sixpacktr

[Guest]

I would like to 'come out' here on this forum. I am a male lesbian. I also have a weakness for free-basing cocaine. It seems unfair to me that I can't act on either of these as it brings me happiness, and I am thereby being true to myself.

It sounds ridiculous when put in this context, and just as ridiculous when put in the context that it isn't 'fair' for gays to act upon their impulses.

We all have impulses. We all have selfish desires. We all have the opportunity to overcome them and become like our Heavenly Father and return to him.

There is a great line in 'Ender's Game' by Orson Scott Card. Colonel Graff and Ender are talking about fairness, and while I don't have the book with me to quote it verbatim, the gist of the idea is that we aren't entitled to happiness, only doing what we are expected to do. Luckily, our HF DOES want us to be happy (his definition, not our very small viewpointed one), but not at the expense of being obedient. And as Lehi said, wickedness never was happiness...

Sixpack, I love that book! This might be the quote you're referring to.

"Humanity does not ask us to be happy. It merely asks us to be brilliant on its behalf. Survival first, then happiness as we can manage it."

This quote from Ender though is how I've found myself - not necessarily to defeat homosexuality - but to find a way to help them deal with homosexual tendencies, rise above the natural man, and be in-line with HF:

"In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him. I think it's impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves. And then, in that very moment when I love them, I beat them."