Confused

[Soul_Searcher]

So Im still feeling very confused about the church.

I read the triple in 40 days and prayed about it. I got a temple recommend. I tried to do the right thing.

It hasn't helped, I've done everything Ive been asked to do, I dont feel any differently. I was hoping for and expecting to have some epiphany, or see everything clearer, or feel it was right and have a renewed desire to do right. It hasn't come, I still feel apathetic in most areas, and very passionately against others.

However, I'm kind of in a 'can't live with it, and can't live without it' mind set.

I really hate going to church. It could be my ward, I'll try going to another. When I dont go, I feel a small sense of lacking and think, OK, this is it, Im gonna go for it. But it never lasts.

Maybe its consistency Im lacking but I cant seem to keep any motivation to continue once Ive started.

I feel Im doomed to feel like this forever

[Palerider]

If you got a TR then you stated you had a testimony etc....now again you state you are not sure if you do.....how did you get a TR??? and how do you get a TR if you hate attending church??? did you tell them any of this????

[NeuroTypical]

I read the triple in 40 days and prayed about it.

...

I got a temple recommend.

...

I tried to do the right thing.

...

I've done everything Ive been asked to do

I hear very similar things from people quite often. Variations on the same theme: "So, I [list off works], but I'm not sure that God even exists or the church is true."

Folks tick off their behaviors and actions, yet I don't hear you say anything about your relationship with Christ. I noticed words like submit, or master, or balm of Gilead, or living water, or even atonement are missing from your post.

A testimony does not come from doing what you're supposed to. A testimony is convicted certainty of the reality and divinity of God and Christ, and the reality and goodness of the plan of salvation. It comes from accepting Christ as your savior and redeemer, and acknowledging the necessity of His atonement in your life. A testimony is roughly equivalent of what the rest of Christianity means when they talk about being "born again". You can't "do stuff" until you just one day suddenly have a testimony.

You're not supposed to "read the triple and pray about it" - you're supposed to kneel before your maker, yearning to know the truth, and communicate with Him. "Ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ" - that's what the scripture says.

It's very, very hard to bare your soul to people in general. It can be harder to bare it to God. The epiphany you seek is there - it is usually brings with it a life-changing broken heart and contrite spirit. You have to lower your defenses in order for that to happen.

Am I making any sense? Sometimes I can't tell...

LM

[john doe]

I think people miss the meaning of the part about praying with real intent, and what that really means.

[Jenamarie]

I'll just ditto LM. Your works aren't going to bring you a Testimony.

When I was questioning the church, it wasn't until the weight of my doubts and my desire to believe finally brought me to my knees in tears, crying out "God, where are you?" that I had my "epiphany".

I'd been reading the scriptures, attending the Temple and church meetings, and praying every night, and had felt nothing prior to that. What was the difference?

Humility.

I had felt a sort of sense of entitlement before, to some big "ah-HA!" moment, when I was searching for a Testimony, and my actions were geared more towards testing God and waiting for Him to deliver that moment to me (LOOK! I'm being a good Mormon! Fill me with your Spirit now!), rather than an actual humbling of myself to His will. It's only been in hindsight that I've seen my actions in this way. I would have said I was "humble" until I was blue in the face before I finally had my moment of true submission to the Lord.

I think some of us who seek have to reach a sort of "rock bottom" in our efforts, in order for all of our pride and preconceptions to finally be stripped away, and finally allow the Spirit to work it's wonders in our hearts.

[Soul_Searcher]

I hear very similar things from people quite often. Variations on the same theme: "So, I [list off works], but I'm not sure that God even exists or the church is true."

Folks tick off their behaviors and actions, yet I don't hear you say anything about your relationship with Christ. I noticed words like submit, or master, or balm of Gilead, or living water, or even atonement are missing from your post.

A testimony does not come from doing what you're supposed to. A testimony is convicted certainty of the reality and divinity of God and Christ, and the reality and goodness of the plan of salvation. It comes from accepting Christ as your savior and redeemer, and acknowledging the necessity of His atonement in your life. A testimony is roughly equivalent of what the rest of Christianity means when they talk about being "born again". You can't "do stuff" until you just one day suddenly have a testimony.

You're not supposed to "read the triple and pray about it" - you're supposed to kneel before your maker, yearning to know the truth, and communicate with Him. "Ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ" - that's what the scripture says.

It's very, very hard to bare your soul to people in general. It can be harder to bare it to God. The epiphany you seek is there - it is usually brings with it a life-changing broken heart and contrite spirit. You have to lower your defenses in order for that to happen.

Am I making any sense? Sometimes I can't tell...

LM

I agree, so I have started to read the new testament in hand with a study guide to really get to know Christ as that is what Christainity is all about.

However, the more I read, the more I feel that certain aspects of the church are irrelevant to Christanity, and in a way it makes it even harder to live the Gospel!

I'm trying to know Christ. I dont have a REAL INTENT. I don't know how to get it?

[Just_A_Guy]

Folks tick off their behaviors and actions, yet I don't hear you say anything about your relationship with Christ. I noticed words like submit, or master, or balm of Gilead, or living water, or even atonement are missing from your post.

Very true. If my wife says "how do you think our marriage is doing", I don't reply by saying "well, I take out the trash every other day, do the laundry weekly, bring flowers once in a while . . ."

[Palerider]

I guess I see this from a Bishops side....how did the author of this thread go for a TR and answer all questions correctly...and get a TR, knowing full well she has some issues????? How did that happen????

[pam]

I'm kind of seeing things from a different angle as well. I've seen this on numerous threads.

We have those that question. Nothing wrong with questioning...but they wonder why they aren't getting answers.

So we list off the things we are doing. Hey I'm going to the temple, I say my prayers daily, I read the scriptures, I serve others, I do my best to sustain my Church leaders, etc etc. Heyyyy look at all the great things I'm doing. In some ways I see that as being "puffed up" with pride which we have been warned about in the same scriptures that we read and study.

I find myself doing the same thing. But in reality, humility is what it's all about. Not the "I'm such a great person because I do all these things." We need to approach Him with humility and to listen with humility as well.

[ryanh]

I guess I see this from a Bishops side....how did the author of this thread go for a TR and answer all questions correctly...and get a TR, knowing full well she has some issues????? How did that happen????

Perhaps that is part of why the pearl sought is not yet forthcoming?

[Hemidakota]

Palreider - good question...in order to get a temple recommend, this is a core requirement.

[Soul_Searcher]

I guess I see this from a Bishops side....how did the author of this thread go for a TR and answer all questions correctly...and get a TR, knowing full well she has some issues????? How did that happen????

Look, Im trying to get help here and just mentioned it in passing along with other things Im trying to do and you are panicking like Im planning to blow up a building. You wern't there in my interview, you dont know what was said. Its between me, my Bishop and stake president, and GOD. Its not a case of just 'giving the right answer' as Im sure you know. A Judge in Israel assess you and your intent and worthiness, its not just a case of yes sir no sir three bags full sir. Do you really think judging me and getting on ur high horse in this case is going to help my situation????????

If I have to feel humbled then im probably not far off. Im feeling quite overwhelmed with my life at the minute and me and hubby never see each other or have the time or money to do things together, amongst a lot of other things. Quite a lot of stress.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Soul_Searcher

[Palerider]

I wasn't judging...I am trying to understand you and what your concerns are. I don't understand them thats why I am asking how did it happen.

You have a TR and in order to have one I know you have need a testimony....and you are the one who said you don't have one and that you hate church.

[ryanh]

Hummm, if I didn't honestly know better, I might get the idea from reading many of the replies that it isn't at all important to do 'good and right' behaviors when seeking to obtain assurance from God. I could almost infer from the posts that what one singularly needs to do is be humble; and not immerse themselves in scriptures, or attend church, or do whatever else they are trying to believe is right.

Soul_Searcher, keep doing what you are doing. Sometimes all we can do is go through the motions until we begin to catch what it is we might be missing. KEEP going through the motions while continuing to search.

Go back to the BoM and re-read Alma 32 - esp verses 21 through the end. Alma was talking to the people telling them the process of a testimony's beginning and it's growth.

Don't forget to check out articles on LDS.org too! Such as Testimony as a Process

Your efforts are admirable. I can't possibly imagine that Heavenly Father is not keenly aware of your efforts. I don't understand why some have to struggle to get a testimony, and others simply are given a gift to believe the testimonies of others. But I trust the Heavenly Father knows all this, and has a plan for you and your situation. They only way you won't find out what is in store is if you give up before you get to that position. Don't give up!

[pam]

Ryan no one here said that it's not important to do those things. Not ONE person said that. But I see so many times people naming off all the things they do and then wonder why they aren't getting answers. Perhaps humility is the next step in addition to all those other things.

[will227457]

some one get the OP a copy of Jesus the Christ....

[Soul_Searcher]

ryan I will-again. Ive read that so much I could memorise it!

I dont say that Im doing things to be prideful, Im saying that we are often listed off things in talks and sacrament as to how to improve ur testimony/life etc, so thats what Im doing here.

I got a temple recommend to see if it would help me by getting to a point where I could have one. I also thought maybe I would go to the temple, a few people suggested it. My MIL also wants to do work for her parents, and needs us so that was a motivation too.

For anyone here who doubts my 'worthiness' a member of the stake presidency who interviewed me said he always gets a spiritual confirmation as to who should have a recommend or not, and he got that confirmation with me. Who can argue with the spirit of the Lord? Anyone who questions my worthiness questions God himself and one of his servants and perhaps has a weak testimony themselves.

Im going to read some more tonight. I think doing 'little and often' is the key with me to keep some sort of continuity. Trouble is, I'm too torn between my own self and having to submit to someone else. Maybe its a battle Ill always have.

[john doe]

I think that last post says a lot about where you are spiritually. Since you're not here to get advice on how to improve things, what can we do for you?

[Misshalfway]

I love your comments, Loudmouth. I generally do. You speak much truth. But in the OP's defense, we are taught to live the principles of the gospel to know they are true. How many times do people's problems get answered with "well, are you reading and praying and going to the temple?" as if the check list has some sort of power. Even the Lord in the NT tells us that testimony type knowledge comes as we live the principles. As far as I can tell Soul_Searcher is trying from a very sincere place and I can understand her concern as sometimes it honestly feels like we do all we can do and we wonder why God isn't meeting us on the other side of that effort.

I don't mean to say that doing all the important things isn't powerful. It is. But perhaps it is the spirit in which we are doing these things that brings the power.

Soul, I am not sure what is blocking your communication with the Lord. Perhaps the Lord is testing your endurance. I don't know. I think I have learned that answers don't come to me when I am in an impatient and panicky mindset that was bred from doubts and frustrations and not understanding that the Lord's ways were not my ways. I do better, I see the hand of the Lord and I understand His lessons better, when I do so from an attitude of trust and patience. Seeing the results, I try to decide, needs to be immaterial to my devotion. I sometimes have to discipline myself NOT to dispute when the answers don't come. I comfort myself with the lessons and promises from the Spirit. I tell myself that if Enos can get an answer....so can I. And the answers really do come. They really really do and they are the kind of answers that settle questions better than any other kind of evidence or emotion.

But until they do, maybe try to change the reason you are obeying. Don't do it to get anything from God. Do it because you yourself think its the right thing to do. When you read the scriptures and apply their lessons, put them into your life because you have love for yourself and determination in the way you want to form your character. And trust the scriptures to lead you to the best results. Do repent. Do exercize faith. Don't cease to pray over every area of your life. Talk to God like He is your literal and best Father and trust that He is there and involved in every detail. When the doubt comes, sooth it with your faithful thoughts and best sentiments. And then hang on indefinitely until the light comes. It comes. I know it does.

[Jenamarie]

Perhaps I'll expand on my comments:

Works will not bring a Testimony if your heart isn't in the right place. And you may not even realize it's not in the right place; I know *I* didn't at first.

If your heart isn't truely turned to the Lord and willing to submit, all the works in the world won't help you. And on the flip side, if you profess to love the Lord, but don't even try to keep any of the commandments, then you can't expect the Spirit to dwell with you.

Your heart and your actions have to be in harmony with eachother.

Also, I had a Temple Recommend the entire time I was questioning, and even went through an interview. My Bishop knew where I was. He still gave it to me. The Temple was what kept me from completely abandoning the church on many many occasions. Whenever I felt like I had too many doubts to even consider myself a believer anymore, I'd go to the Temple and feel the Spirit in the air around me so strongly I could almost grab it in my hands. It gave me courage to keep plugging in my search for answers. When I didn't have a Testimony of the BoM, when I didn't have a Testimony of Joseph Smith, when I didn't have a Testimony of the Prophet, I DID have a Testimony of the Temple. It was truely my anchor.

[Misshalfway]

I think that last post says a lot about where you are spiritually. Since you're not here to get advice on how to improve things, what can we do for you?

Man you are in a sour mood lately, John. What's wrong with you? You got a jack-o-lantern stuck somewhere?

[john doe]

Are you attacking me now?

[Misshalfway]

Are you attacking me now?

No sweetie. I am not attacking you. I am trying to joke with you while asking if you are having a bad day.

[prisonchaplain]

Soul, imho, it is promising that this whole matter is vexing you. My guess is that many just stumble through life, and stumbling through church is a part of it. I don't know this, but can easily imagine that some even stumble through the Temple, without being intentional about what it represents.

You're not satisfied with such. Whatever you end up with, you want it to be authentic and meaningful, and heart-touching (even emotional). Jesus says Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled. Don't give up on this striving. Jesus also said that if we keep seeking, we'll receive the gift (infilling) of the Holy Spirit.

You're already in the Church. So, perhaps for now, you would do well to reacquaint yourself with the Master. Read your Bible and your Triple--but do so to get ahold of Jesus! Pursue him! Become a Godchaser! You will find that which you seek.

[Soul_Searcher]

All thses responses are what you can do for me John-I just need some encouragement sometimes and a goal to think I can attain and work towards.

The Bishop also knows of my struggles-Ive spent hours with him in his office telling him everything. He still felt I was fit for a recommend.

Your kind inspired words are what I needed to hear :)