Pepsi

[firehotemily]

Okay my brother keeps trying to drink caffeinated drinks like pepsi and energy drinks, but his excuse is "Dad drinks it so why can't I?" I'm frustrated because my family does go to church and believe in it but my brother thinks it's okay to drink this. Help me explain to him how it's bad any advice?

[Vort]

Pepsi is not good for you. Neither is 7-Up or Sprite. Soda pop in general is just bad juju. In that sense, it certainly violates the spirit of the word of wisdom.

However, drinking soda pop is not contrary to the word of wisdom, even if the soda pop is caffeinated. Nasty? Yes. Bad idea? You bet. Contrary to the word of wisdom? No.

Tell him that I had constant headaches while I drank Mountain Death, er, Dew, and went through awful withdrawal headaches getting off of it. Caffeine is not good for you. Better to avoid it.

But it still isn't against the word of wisdom, so don't tell him it is.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I agree with Vort on this one -- it's a matter or personal conscience whether one drinks such stuff. However, there is a ton of research that soda pop in general is terrible for you. I'm not sure about energy drinks; if you want to convince your brother to stop drinking those things, you might be better off going at it from a health standpoint, as it's not considered a worthiness issue in any circles I've been party to as a Christian and a Mormon....

And Vort -- I laughed when I read your post because I've never heard the term "bad juju" before - but you can bet I'm going to assimilate it into my vocabulary....:)

[pam]

Ditto what Vort and mormonmusic said. It's not against the Word of Wisdom. Here is article that was in an Ensign in 2008 that might help.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Energy Drink Epidemic

[Guest buzzsawddog]

You know it's quite interesting that this topic continues to come up in may ways, shapes and forms. No the word of wisdom does not specifically say no caffeine. But it does say many things indirectly. There is no reason for scriptures to spell out every do and don't. If they did it would remove our agency, our precious ability to choose. One of the wonderful things about the gospel is modern day revaluation. So lets take a look at what it tells us.

Take a look in the New Era, Oct 1975 at the question and answer section of Bishop Peterson

LDS.org - New Era Article - Q&A: Questions and Answers

"We know that cola drinks contain the drug caffeine. We know that caffeine is not wholsome nor prudent for the use of our bodies. It is only sound judgment to conclude that cola drinks and any others that contain caffeine or other harmful ingredients should not be used."

Another good resource to take a look at is Ensign December 2008 Thomas J. Boud "The Energy Drink Epidemic" It talks about some of the problems from caffeine.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Energy Drink Epidemic

And now lets take a look at what a prophet of god tells us. On september 9th 1998 president Hinckley was on the Larry King Live show. A caller called in and asked about the word of wisdom, one thing lead to another and Larry king made the comment "No to caffeine?" President Hinckley answered "No to caffeine, coffee and tea."

Each person has to make decisions for themselves. You have to figure out if you want to follow the "Letter of the law" the "Spirit of the law". Or do what is right and follow both the letter of the law and the spirit of the law (i personally don't think there is a difference).

Remember that we do not need to be commanded in all things.

Many times people will come back and say "The church has no official stance on it." This is a cop out and a lie. There is the Word of Wisdom. There are the words of general authorities that say to avoid things that are harmful. And there is the words of the prophet of god.

Hope this helps a little.

[MarginOfError]

You know it's quite interesting that this topic continues to come up in may ways, shapes and forms. No the word of wisdom does not specifically say no caffeine. But it does say many things indirectly. There is no reason for scriptures to spell out every do and don't. If they did it would remove our agency, our precious ability to choose. One of the wonderful things about the gospel is modern day revaluation. So lets take a look at what it tells us.

Take a look in the New Era, Oct 1975 at the question and answer section of Bishop Peterson

LDS.org - New Era Article - Q&A: Questions and Answers

"We know that cola drinks contain the drug caffeine. We know that caffeine is not wholsome nor prudent for the use of our bodies. It is only sound judgment to conclude that cola drinks and any others that contain caffeine or other harmful ingredients should not be used."

When you read this article in its entirety, you get a somewhat different sense than you do from the snippet you've provided. Bishop Peterson's comments focus on the words "prudence" and "wholesome;" words found in the revelation. He makes an analogy to apple pie and cake, stating that it wouldn't be prudent to eat an entire pie or cake all in one sitting. It's also fairly obvious that apple pie and cake are not particularly wholesome, and so, by the standard you claim he is setting, we should never consume these anyway.

But that isn't what Bishop Peterson was trying to say. The analogy seems to make it clear that we can certainly consume foods and beverages that are not "wholesome" without violating the principle of "prudence." You might want to take a look at his discussion of thanksgiving or gratitude as well.

Another analogy he makes involves watermelon, in which he says that, although watermelon may be more wholesome than pie or cake, to eat an entire watermelon in one sitting certainly isn't prudent, and would thus violate the spirit of the Word of Wisdom.

Another good resource to take a look at is Ensign December 2008 Thomas J. Boud "The Energy Drink Epidemic" It talks about some of the problems from caffeine.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Energy Drink Epidemic

Dr. Boud--who by the way, is not a General Authority, but a consulting physician with the Missionary Department--does not entirely rule out caffeine use and even states that many of the problems associated with caffeine abuse would be avoided if it were used in moderation. His entire article is about caffeine abuse, which is not identical to caffeine use.

And now lets take a look at what a prophet of god tells us. On september 9th 1998 president Hinckley was on the Larry King Live show. A caller called in and asked about the word of wisdom, one thing lead to another and Larry king made the comment "No to caffeine?" President Hinckley answered "No to caffeine, coffee and tea."

While I don't care to open up this discussion again, since it's been discussed ad nauseum on these boards, doctrinally binding statements are not made on Larry King Live. That statement was made in a forum that makes it very difficult to know if it is the voice of the Lord or the voice of a man giving the counsel. To complicate things further, I attended a conference with Elder Bednar where he discussed his family's interpretation of the Word of Wisdom anecdotally. He stopped mid-story to explain that this was his interpretation and his alone, and he did not really care what sodas any of the rest of us drank. So, at best, I think I could only take President Hinckley's statement as very well informed and good advice.

Each person has to make decisions for themselves. You have to figure out if you want to follow the "Letter of the law" the "Spirit of the law". Or do what is right and follow both the letter of the law and the spirit of the law (i personally don't think there is a difference).

The problem with following the spirit of the law is that you have to first define what the spirit of the law is. Since the spirit of the law isn't defined by the letter of the law, you are required to use your own judgment to define the spirit of the law. And now we've entered subjective territory where there may not be a single correct answer.

Remember that we do not need to be commanded in all things.

But according to you, we have been.

Many times people will come back and say "The church has no official stance on it." This is a cop out and a lie.

Actually, that's 100% true

There is the Word of Wisdom.

Which neither encourages nor prohibits caffeine (except in some individual interpretations)

There are the words of general authorities that say to avoid things that are harmful.

Like apple pie and cake

And there is the words of the prophet of god.

And conflicting words of another prophet of God.

Hope this helps a little.

Not really. I think it actually causes more harm when individuals in the Church try to push their own interpretations of doctrine as officially sanctioned, and we should probably avoid doing it.

[bytor2112]

Pepsi Max = Yum....Diet DP = Yum!! But only occasionally.

[talisyn]

I have nothing new to add to this discussion, but I want to appear helpful.

*gets a glass of milk and piece of pumpkin pie instead of cherry coke and pie*

Balance your sugars and you should be good

[Wingnut]

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/21760-lds-net-references-word-wisdom.html

[Saguaro]

I won't touch Pepsi, I'll stick with my Diet Coke, thank you very much.

[rayhale]

This discussion has focused on what is not in the Word of Wisdom, but there is several things that ARE in the Word of Wisdom that most people don’t think of:

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

I’ve modified the text to show that it is confusing, the WoW states that all grain is good to eat several times, but then it makes a statement ‘Nevertheless, wheat for man’ that, for some people have interpreted, that ONLY wheat should be eaten.

One of the prophets, I can’t remember which one, clarified that ‘in the season thereof’ means ripe.

But what about the ‘only in the winter’ statements? Are these statements just for the 1830’s time, with little to no refrigeration technology? Or are they for modern times, with refrigeration, and freezer technology?

[RachelleDrew]

I'm seeing a bigger issue here...

Your brother is okay with drinking soda, and uses your father as an example as to why it's okay. This implies that your parents have allowed him to make that choice himself.

The consumption of soda as a sin is debatable.

A child second guessing and undermining the decision of their parents most certainly IS a sin.

See where i'm going with this? If your parents have okayed it, then it's none of your business. If your brother is an adult, then it's no ones business.

[Wingnut]

This discussion has focused on what is not in the Word of Wisdom, but there is several things that ARE in the Word of Wisdom that most people don’t think of:

Perhaps because this thread isn't intended to be a discussion of the Word of Wisdom as a whole, but rather a discussion on the one part with which the OP has a concern.

[sdorociak]

I'm seeing a bigger issue here...

If your brother is an adult, then it's no ones business.

If we were to follow this premise then anything one did or the choices one made as an adult would be none of anyone elses business. If that be the case then why do we work so diligently to bring the gospel and its teachings to those who are unaware or to those who have wandered away from the church? Are we not our brother's keeper? Is it not important that we not only teach by example, but by word as well? Each soul is important, is it not?

[sdorociak]

This discussion has focused on what is not in the Word of Wisdom, but there is several things that ARE in the Word of Wisdom that most people don’t think of:

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man— Have we forgotten that these wholesome herbs are used for healing as well as flavoring our foods?

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving. - We are being reminded to eat wisely (prudence) and to be thankful that they have been given to us for our sustenance. Have you ever noticed that the vitamin and mineral contents of the fruit of each season does not diminish if eaten wisely throughout their seasons?

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;--- Many of us, myself included overlook the word "sparingly". It is the key to how these items should be taken into our systems to maintain our health.

16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground— Again, the Lord is giving us direction for our health and what is of the utmost importance in our daily diet.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

He has directed us and given us a promise if we hearken to His word.

[RachelleDrew]

If we were to follow this premise then anything one did or the choices one made as an adult would be none of anyone elses business. If that be the case then why do we work so diligently to bring the gospel and its teachings to those who are unaware or to those who have wandered away from the church? Are we not our brother's keeper? Is it not important that we not only teach by example, but by word as well? Each soul is important, is it not?

I would agree with this. But using this idea to lord over other people who are perfectly capable of making a decision for themselves is stupid.

I get really aggravated when other Mormons try and tell me that i'm not temple worthy for buying my Diet Coke. Then they use the "brother's keeper" nonsense whenever I politely tell them to mind their own business. It's a moot point.

Making your stance and concern known to another person is perfectly acceptable. A child telling an adult what to do is not. The OP made it clear that she was trying to force her brother to stop behavior she disagreed with. This is not okay.

[pam]

I have to agree with Rachelle. Yes we are our brother's keeper. But not to the point where we are dictating or pointing out everything WE feel they are doing wrong. That leads us to the point of being judgmental which is a character trait we wish to avoid.

[sdorociak]

I would agree with this. But using this idea to lord over other people who are perfectly capable of making a decision for themselves is stupid.

I get really aggravated when other Mormons try and tell me that i'm not temple worthy for buying my Diet Coke. Then they use the "brother's keeper" nonsense whenever I politely tell them to mind their own business. It's a moot point.

Making your stance and concern known to another person is perfectly acceptable. A child telling an adult what to do is not. The OP made it clear that she was trying to force her brother to stop behavior she disagreed with. This is not okay.

Rachelle, there is a distinct difference in "lording over, "forcing", and caring. And, even though you may not wish to hear this " out of the mouths of babes..." is a very valid and wise quote. I clearly remember my own 4 year old daughter, very wise beyond her years, comforting me because as a very tired and frustrated mother, I had screamed and yelled at her for doing something... normal and childish. Then upon seeing her face I collasped in tears. She, my darling little four year old, crawled up on the couch, kissed me and rubbing the tears from my face told me it was okay. That she and God knew I was just tired and not mad at her. The she said, "It's okay Mommie, I forgive you and I know you won't ever yell at me again, 'cause you love me." Rachelle, my child was teaching me and yes, lovingly chastising me too. Something she did many times before she was called home because she loved me and as many have told me she was closely in tune and knew what I needed to hear and become.

As to drinking a coke, iced tea (I'm a southerner), a beer, or even a glass of wine. It isn't so much a "law" as a practice at being obedient. I look at it this way, if you can learn to do the little stuff... then when He asked more of us, obeying comes without much thought at all.

None of us can be "forced" to become compliant and if we think we can force someone into a different behavior, we are only fooling ourselves. A person can and will do only what "they" decide to do and not one second sooner. The idea is as my child taught me... to make someone want to change, be it a habit, a behavior, or what ever. It has to be their decision. Force is not part of the equation even under hypnosis.

You might want to reverse the tables so to speak by replying to the "good intentioned", "I know, but giving up something I enjoy so-o-o much and not really understanding where in the WOW it says I mustn't drink a coke. It talks about eating meat sparingly, eating the herbs of the field and grain and vegetables and no strong drink or tea. How do you comply with each part of the WOW?" Ask them to show you where this is written and do so without showing any anger or agitation and be open to what they say. Remember, it is you and only you who can exercise your free agency. We are supposed to be here to help each other home... not to judge.

[sleepless3977]

i think that when it comes to drinking drinks such as energy drinks, pepsi, coke, dr pepper etc it comes down to addiction. simply if you are addicted to these substances then you are breaking the word of wisdom.

I have yet to see an official stance from the church on caffeine, other than it's harmful to the body and that the body is a temple and should be treated with respect.

As to drinking a coke, iced tea (I'm a southerner), a beer, or even a glass of wine. It isn't so much a "law" as a practice at being obedient.

totally agree

[mrmarklin]

Okay my brother keeps trying to drink caffeinated drinks like pepsi and energy drinks, but his excuse is "Dad drinks it so why can't I?" I'm frustrated because my family does go to church and believe in it but my brother thinks it's okay to drink this. Help me explain to him how it's bad any advice?

It IS OK to drink Pepsi. I know several people who are totally addicted. They're temple going Mormons too.........

[john doe]

I would amend that statement. It is NOT specifically against the Word of Wisdom to drink Pepsi, whether it is caffeinated or not. However, studies have shown that drinking pop and cola drinks is not good for your health.

[Wingnut]

It IS OK to drink Pepsi. I know several people who are totally addicted. They're temple going Mormons too.........

It's okay to drink Pepsi. It's not okay to be addicted to anything.

[Carl62]

What I constantly scratch my head over in all of this is how we are told to 'live the spirit of the law', 'soda drinks are in violation of WoW', 'don't drink sodas because of health reasons', yada, yada. Yet nobody seems to say a word about the obese members of our church (250 lbs.+) who will stand up in a Sunday school (as was done last summer) and tell me that I am to avoid my 16 ounce daily favorite drink root beer, but don't seem to have any conflict whatsoever in regards to the WoW over their gluttony of no less than a 4,000 calorie daily intake of pizzas, Big Macs, fries, subs, and who knows what else that will clog their arteries and give them serious health related issues by the time they're 55. Can somebody explain to me how the common sense logic (and living the spirit of the law) continually seems to get thrown out the window in all of this?

[Moksha]

While Pepsi might meet the letter of law in terms of being acceptable, Coke is the real thing. Diet Coke and Pepsi are also good, with a lot less calories.

Now here is an important point for those seeking holiness through their beverages: Red Bull does not give you actual wings. That is merely a marketing slogan.

Hope this helps...

:)

[Mohammad]

I would amend that statement. It is NOT specifically against the Word of Wisdom to drink Pepsi, whether it is caffeinated or not. However, studies have shown that drinking pop and cola drinks is not good for your health.

On the other hand, studies are now showing that tea, especially green tea is good for your health. There are also studies out showing that coffee helps to prevent parkinsons, and other diseases. Studies are now showing that coffee and tea are preferable to drinking soda drinks from a health standpoint.