Can Satan love?

[tubaloth]

I learned some time a go the the real motivated for the gospel is actually Love.

Blogs » Motivation is the real reason » LDS Mormon Network

Fast forward to a fast and testimony meeting a couple of months ago. The lady could not figure out why Satan does what he does. Doesn't satan love her as a brother and sister (something like that).

That got wheel turning if Satan can love?

I don't think the definition of Love should be a problem, but I think there are different degrees of Love. Obviously with this being a trait of God, the initial reaction is that Satan doesn't have any love. I'm not so sure on that.

I think we do have to break Satan's life apart to even inpsect if he EVER did love others?

In the pre-existence Satan was high in authority. I can't see Satan getting that high with out the ability to love others. I honestly wonder if Satan proposed his Plan out of Love? (Did Satan really feel his Plan was the best). I have to lean a little to the yes side. Even though Satan's main goal was glory for his self (love of self) The only thing I can see that actually motivated Satan to propose such a plan is he actually felt it was better then Heavenly Father's. That is would save more spirit children. That is done out of love?

But Satan's plan didn't work, and Satan was cast out. So now does Satan love me that he wants me to follow him? I can't really think Satan does. I would think at this point in time Satan knows (I assume) that he is going to fail. That the best for me (which is what Satan should want if he loves me) is for me to follow Heavenly Father? This much I do agree.

But what of those that do follow Satan, does Satan Love his followers?

For me the opposite of Love is hate. So if Satan has no love, then he would be filled with Hate. I'm not for sure I can say that Satan Hates me? He might hate my choices, but does he Hate me completely? Is that what motivates Satan, his complete hate towards me?

[OmahaLDS]

Why not? Satan is "evil" based on his choices, not inherent evilness. Love is a choice as well. The better question (which you stated at the end) is does Satan love, and that answer is pure speculation.

[Moksha]

In the pre-existence Satan was high in authority. I can't see Satan getting that high with out the ability to love others. I honestly wonder if Satan proposed his Plan out of Love? (Did Satan really feel his Plan was the best). I have to lean a little to the yes side. Even though Satan's main goal was glory for his self (love of self) The only thing I can see that actually motivated Satan to propose such a plan is he actually felt it was better then Heavenly Father's.

In a board room situation, when ideas are suggested, it is best not to demonize any of the proposals or proposers lest that cause freeze in the creativity process and ultimately undermine the health of the organization. It is usually a given that those sitting around the table have their own degree of self love.

[pam]

My answer would be perhaps but we don't know. Personally I think he has a love only for himself if he does love at all.

[Moksha]

If you think of the univeral goodness of God as one pole, then its opposite would be a universal badness represented by Satan.

[Just_A_Guy]

David O. McKay seems to say that Satan was seeking to supplant God from the get-go--at least by the time of the Council in Heaven. He may have justified that action by love for the other children of God. He may have even believed it himself, to some degree. But I agree with Cleon Skousen (yeah, it's Skousen--but the talk itself makes a heckuvalotta sense, IMHO) that Satan's end game was revolution.

[Prodigal_Son]

If God's glory is His power (also Skousen - attributed to John A. Widtsoe), and this is what Satan sought - sounds like a straight-up power grab to me. A get-rich-quick agenda, if you will. Bypass the testing and trials and place yourself at the top of the heap... Doesn't sound terribly loving to me...

[Guest mormonmusic]

I'm pretty sure Satan is capable of love. However, what he loves isn't good.

There are people who love pornography, violence, dishonesty etcetera. The scriptures that confirm that a person can love anything -- both good and bad things:

Rev. 22: 15

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

D&C 63: 17

17 Wherefore, I, the Lord, have said that the fearful, and the unbelieving, and all liars, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie, and the whoremonger, and the sorcerer, shall have their part in that flake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

[bert10]

Tubaloth to answer your question....there are two types of Love...

Unconditional Love and Conditional Love.

God called Conditional Love....darkness. Yes Satan can love if he so desires..his love will the counterfeit of the real thing.

Satan does not possess anymore..."Unconditional Love." Satan is a being of darkness and his nature can only be of the darkness.

You can see this in the real world and it is the reason why divorces is so high. So all marriages that are based on "Conditional Love" will result sooner or later into a living hell on the earth and so are doomed by the very nature of its foundation is Conditional Love...and divorce will come.

Peace be unto you

bert10

I learned some time a go the the real motivated for the gospel is actually Love.

Blogs » Motivation is the real reason » LDS Mormon Network

Fast forward to a fast and testimony meeting a couple of months ago. The lady could not figure out why Satan does what he does. Doesn't satan love her as a brother and sister (something like that).

That got wheel turning if Satan can love?

I don't think the definition of Love should be a problem, but I think there are different degrees of Love. Obviously with this being a trait of God, the initial reaction is that Satan doesn't have any love. I'm not so sure on that.

I think we do have to break Satan's life apart to even inpsect if he EVER did love others?

In the pre-existence Satan was high in authority. I can't see Satan getting that high with out the ability to love others. I honestly wonder if Satan proposed his Plan out of Love? (Did Satan really feel his Plan was the best). I have to lean a little to the yes side. Even though Satan's main goal was glory for his self (love of self) The only thing I can see that actually motivated Satan to propose such a plan is he actually felt it was better then Heavenly Father's. That is would save more spirit children. That is done out of love?

But Satan's plan didn't work, and Satan was cast out. So now does Satan love me that he wants me to follow him? I can't really think Satan does. I would think at this point in time Satan knows (I assume) that he is going to fail. That the best for me (which is what Satan should want if he loves me) is for me to follow Heavenly Father? This much I do agree.

But what of those that do follow Satan, does Satan Love his followers?

For me the opposite of Love is hate. So if Satan has no love, then he would be filled with Hate. I'm not for sure I can say that Satan Hates me? He might hate my choices, but does he Hate me completely? Is that what motivates Satan, his complete hate towards me?

Edited December 28, 2009 by bert10

[Mahonri]

Unreciprocated love eventually ends in separation.

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Satan's "love" if he ever had any, was a lie.

He wanted everybody to be saved, and he wanted to be the reason, just like BO wants everybody to have health care. No difference in my opinion.

[pam]

Oh my heck. Can we not have a conversation without bringing politics or the current administration into it?

Edited December 28, 2009 by pam

[Hemidakota]

I learned some time a go the the real motivated for the gospel is actually Love.

Blogs » Motivation is the real reason » LDS Mormon Network

Fast forward to a fast and testimony meeting a couple of months ago. The lady could not figure out why Satan does what he does. Doesn't satan love her as a brother and sister (something like that).

That got wheel turning if Satan can love?

I don't think the definition of Love should be a problem, but I think there are different degrees of Love. Obviously with this being a trait of God, the initial reaction is that Satan doesn't have any love. I'm not so sure on that.

I think we do have to break Satan's life apart to even inpsect if he EVER did love others?

In the pre-existence Satan was high in authority. I can't see Satan getting that high with out the ability to love others. I honestly wonder if Satan proposed his Plan out of Love? (Did Satan really feel his Plan was the best). I have to lean a little to the yes side. Even though Satan's main goal was glory for his self (love of self) The only thing I can see that actually motivated Satan to propose such a plan is he actually felt it was better then Heavenly Father's. That is would save more spirit children. That is done out of love?

But Satan's plan didn't work, and Satan was cast out. So now does Satan love me that he wants me to follow him? I can't really think Satan does. I would think at this point in time Satan knows (I assume) that he is going to fail. That the best for me (which is what Satan should want if he loves me) is for me to follow Heavenly Father? This much I do agree.

But what of those that do follow Satan, does Satan Love his followers?

For me the opposite of Love is hate. So if Satan has no love, then he would be filled with Hate. I'm not for sure I can say that Satan Hates me? He might hate my choices, but does he Hate me completely? Is that what motivates Satan, his complete hate towards me?

He does not now have the capacity to love in a true sense. He lost it when he was not only thrown out of God’s presence but lost the priesthood and the Spirit that enlightens us as spirits or members of the Gospel. As I don’t believe he knew he was going to fail at any given point until that moment of the council of selection for a Savior. GOD selected Jehovah as being the chosen Savior when he began the journey of being perdition.

Lucifer was more than what is presented in media or books that most can know in this life. If you can look into the pre-mortal world of the past, you find this individual as arrogant and pompous one can be versus the opposite of a soft spoken and patience filled Jehovah. He thought with the aid of the majority of the Spirits help, he would be the one be chosen for the role. We find that is not the case. It doesn’t take the majority of the spirits to be selected as the Savior but one who follows the teachings and the will of the FATHER. This selection among the spirit children has not changed in any creation and again seen in this world where the majority will not choose the church or Christ’s Gospel.

Being the Son of Morning, is a high calling and noble one in being called after the great Creator – The Morning. Being recognized for his talents and gift of speaking, he sought for his own glory and not the FATHER. This was of his own choosing and in know way be blamed for his spiritual creation as same may state; in stating he was born to fail…that is not the case. He choose to fail by his own agency. He had the same capacity in the beginning to repent but failed to act. Reminds me of Cain, who similar had the same problem. If Cain repented in the beginning, he could have walked where Enoch walked.

Though, I used to pray for him to come back to the gospel, I was reminded by a prophet in stop praying for him. Our prayers are heard even on something simple as this….

Edited December 28, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Vort]

In the pre-existence Satan was high in authority.

What makes you say this? I see no real evidence for this idea. The bare fact that his name was "Lucifer", meaning "light-bearer", tells us nothing. Perhaps you were a Lucifer, too. Does that mean you were "high in authority"?

[Dravin]

What makes you say this? I see no real evidence for this idea. The bare fact that his name was "Lucifer", meaning "light-bearer", tells us nothing. Perhaps you were a Lucifer, too. Does that mean you were "high in authority"?

I think it's an assumption that comes from his ability to persuade during the War in Heaven. D&C 76: 25 states he was in authority but doesn't specify how high that authority might have been though. Some think of him almost as a # 3 (Behind God, and Jesus), that is an idea I don't find scriptural backing for.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Dravin

[tubaloth]

He does not now have the capacity to love in a true sense. He lost it when he was not only thrown out of God’s presence but lost the priesthood and the Spirit that enlightens us as spirits or members of the Gospel. As I don’t believe he knew he was going to fail at any given point until that moment of the council of selection for a Savior. GOD selected Jehovah as being the chosen Savior when he began the journey of being perdition.

Do you feel before this time Lucifer loved others? So what is Lucifer's motivation?

Lucifer was more than what is presented in media or books that most can know in this life. If you can look into the pre-mortal world of the past, you find this individual as arrogant and pompous one can be versus the opposite of a soft spoken and patience filled Jehovah.

I don't doubt that these traits in some degree Lucifer grew in (and grew out of love). But I can't see Lucifer gaining that high of position in Pre-mortal life with out the ability to Love. Which is the opposite of what you listed. Makes me wonder how many traits of who I am where developed before I came here?

[tubaloth]

What makes you say this? I see no real evidence for this idea. The bare fact that his name was "Lucifer", meaning "light-bearer", tells us nothing. Perhaps you were a Lucifer, too. Does that mean you were "high in authority"?

It might just be semantics, but thats who Satan was.

President George Q. Cannon, commenting on Satan’s title as a son of the morning, said: “Some have called him the son of the morning, but here it is a son of the morning—one among many, doubtless. This angel was a mighty personage, without doubt. The record that is given to us concerning him clearly shows that he occupied a very high position; that he was thought a great deal of, and that he was mighty in his sphere, so much so that when the matter was debated concerning the earth and the plan of salvation, he was of sufficient importance to have a plan, which he proposed as the plan by which this earth should be peopled and the inhabitants thereof redeemed. His plan, however, was not accepted; but it was so plausible and so attractive that out of the whole hosts of heaven one-third accepted his plan and were willing to cast their lot with him. [ Moses 4:1–4 ; D&C 29:36–37 .] Now, the difference between Jesus and Lucifer was this: Jesus was willing to submit to the Father.” (In Millennial Star, 5 Sept. 1895, pp. 563–64.)

Section 76 - The Vision of the Degrees of Glory

[stormwitch]

I do not like judging people... not even Satan, because I do not know all the facts. Even considering all that has been revealed by prophets or said in other instances leaves a lot of assumptions and mere guesses.

IF Satan is capable of loving, imho this love can be only a tainted one considering what he has done and become. In no way it can be the perfect love our Heavenly Father has, the love we are striving for.

[Hemidakota]

Do you feel before this time Lucifer loved others? So what is Lucifer's motivation?

Ask him!

Though a good question. Assumption here, I am sure there was love in the beginning since he was called the Son of the Morning. This is a title only a few received in the spirit world [see Book of Abraham] prior to the execution of the Plan of Salvation.

I don't doubt that these traits in some degree Lucifer grew in (and grew out of love). But I can't see Lucifer gaining that high of position in Pre-mortal life with out the ability to Love. Which is the opposite of what you listed. Makes me wonder how many traits of who I am where developed before I came here?

Read above. Why would those who remain mourn over this lost if he was not in such a high position before his heavenly parents?

[Pianoman216]

I agree with Stormwitch. We dont know all the facts so assuming Lucifer cannot and has never loved is really a form of judgment. When it comes down to it, he is still our brother. We need not respect him and SHOULD not follow his false teachings, but should WE hold a form of unconditional LOVE towards HIM? The Saviour taught that we must love our enemies in Matthew 5:43-44, "Ye have heard that it hath been said, though shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemy, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you." This does not describe anyone more accurately than it does the Adversary. It does not matter whether he can love or not. What matters is that WE unconditionally love all beings, including Satan. Any further views on this?

[stormwitch]

Wow... loving Satan as our brother... I don't know... that's really hard to digest... But on the other hand: God doesn't love sin but he loves the sinner... Can God stop loving one of his spiritual sons?

[Pianoman216]

Exactly. Does God not still love Satan? Is He capable of hate towards Him? I dont think so. Are we not all trying to become more like God? The terms of love can be very different in different situations. I think the love we should have towards Satan is no different that the love God has towards Hitler, Saddam Hussein or Cain. Not loving the sin, but loving the sinner, unconditionally.

[tubaloth]

I agree with Stormwitch. We dont know all the facts so assuming Lucifer cannot and has never loved is really a form of judgment.

The intention is to gather ideas based of what we know. I realize we don't know everything. Some areas we probably are jumping to conclusions.

The real idea is to figure out Satan's motives. To make others miserables doesn't seem to serve Satan much? What does he get out of it? There has to be a reason, not only for why he did what he did in pre-mortal life, but also what motivates him now.

As of this time there isn't anything in Satan to Love. I don't know who he is, what he likes and so forth. I can love him for being a a children of Heavenly Father, but that really isn't much love. For the love we are talking about here, its about lifting others, I don't see a way for me to do that to Satan.

[Pianoman216]

I wasnt trying to say it should not be discussed (if I were I would basically be passing judgment on everyone that has posted in this thread...which would be rather ironic). I see no problem with speculation, I was just trying to emphasize the fact that we need to be very careful in actually believing one side or the other to prominently because of the chance we have to be wrong...might as well not risk it :)

As far as the comment that the love in question is the act of "lifting others", I dont see any way we could do that with Satan either. I, as well, dont see any reason he would do that to us, so, in that sense, I dont believe Satan can love. I do think he at one point could and slowly descended to the point where he is now as we ALL (Satan included) have always had our free agency, even before this world. He was not created evil, but chose to go against the will of God. At this point, he still has his free agency so, theoretically, I believe he has the capacity and the ability to love, but chooses not to. His reasons for choosing hate over love could be very numerous. Perhaps he is bitter that he didnt win in the pre-existence. Maybe he realizes his committing of the unpardonable sin (denying God with a perfect knowledge of Him) has destroyed all chance at redemption and thereby he has no reason to love.

[MarginOfError]

Of course Satan is capable of love. And by the way, God is capable of hatred. The issue here isn't love vs hate. The issue is selfish vs selfless.

Being the intelligent beings that we are, we are capable of a wide range of emotions. I don't believe for a second that a being is incapable of love simply because he makes poor choices.

[fatboys]

In the pre existance did we all have the opportunity to present a plan to God? Suppose that someone came to you with the belief that Lucifer was more than just a spirit brother? That he was not a fallen spirit, but a fallen God? Has anyone ever heard of this? If this has any merit, then he surely had to know how to love.