Is investing in the stock market gambling?

[bmy-]

Just because you are a skillful gambler doesn't make it any less a gamble. The presence of skill has no bearing on the definition of gambling.

It has everything to do with it. There's an incredibly large difference between matching your skills against another person (or bookie) and coming away victorious.. and betting on whether or not a coin lands on heads or tails. Slots, roulette, etc. That's gambling (and there is a time, place, and attitude for it to be acceptable). Poker, sports betting, etc. are skill based and those who profit from them profit for a reason.. and it's not luck.

Okay, so why is a sports game not the same as a poker game?

Let me present this first: If the money you get from a game of poker comes from people paying you to play poker to provide entertainment to an audience, then you are not gambling. You are earning a living. The entertainment part has value that people are willing to pay for.

This would be the same as showcasing your skill at golf at a tournament. You do not play golf to wager your money that you will win the pot. You play golf to provide entertainment to an audience and you are paid the money in relation to the amount of money people pay (in advertisement or seat tickets) to watch you play. You do not win all the wagers. You get a cut of the ticket/ad sales.

Now, if what you do is put in a wager, then play poker with utmost skill to win all the wagers on the table, then that is gambling. Because, there is no inherent value to a card game. It does not provide a product or service.

It all boils down to (imo) using skills to earn money vs betting on a coin toss. When research, effort, practice, and dedication come into play.. it's sport or work.. and not gambling. I don't really see anything wrong with gambling to begin with, though. Never seen a good argument against it.

Edited February 10, 2010 by bmy-

[hordak]

I would say for many people it is. Many are "motivated by a desire to get something for nothing"

And while you "own" a part of the co it's value is as much as a casino chip. It's only worth something to the other gamblers. It's not like you can jump out of line and go make your own bigmac saying "Its ok people, i own this place. I'm a stock holder"

Unless you spent a lot of money, own a lot of their stock, which might give you some say, much like owning a lot of casino stock (chips) will give you comped rooms, shows, drinks etc.)

It can be safer, It doesn't carry the negative social stigma.

But ultamently you're putting your money on the line in order to make more by outdoing the competition because it is easier "real work"

I don't think there is anything wrong with it, nor do i see anything wrong with regular gambling (unless you are addicted).

[Blackmarch]

Sorry, we should have opened this thread eons ago. We have hijacked the Rated "R" movies thread and it's about time we stop doing that.

So, here is my opening statement.

Stock Market investing is not gambling because by definition, gambling is when you wager money in the hopes of making more money without the benefit of "value". That means, you are buying "chance" which has no intrinsic value of its own.

Buying a stock is not wagering on chance because you actually gain ownership of something that has value. For example - if you buy a McDonald's stock, you are not buying the "chance" that McDonald's will make money, you OWN a piece of McDonald's that you hope will earn money in the future. It is the exact same thing as if you would have opened a McDonald's franchise.

If you wager on a game of poker - there is no value there. What is the product or the service? What did you buy with your wager? Nothing more than a "chance". Because, knowing how to play cards to increase the odds is not a product nor a service that has value outside of "chance".

Okay, anybody remember the dot-com stocks back in 2000? Remember how that bubbled and caused economic chaos? People who IPO'd several of those dot-coms were guilty of gambling. Because, there was no product nor service! A lot of the dot-com businesses was nothing but trying to put a fancy storefront for a non-existent product in the "chance" that people will buy into it!

So, investing in the stock market, in itself is not gambling. But, you can use the stock market to gamble that's for sure.

Here's a link that better explains why Stock Market is not gambling:

The 5 Biggest Stock Market Myths

Okay, let your thoughts be known!

dunno guess it woiuld depend on your methods and motivations.... but for me if I saw a company that I thought was helpful to the economy or society in some way, then donating money to them isn't a problem and if I can get back a portion of that that's modified by how well that company is doing is icing on the cake. The moral quandary for me isn't the investing in stocks- it's going to be about supporting whatever company.

[NeuroTypical]

Gambling involves creating a risk of loss where none would exist otherwise. If you don't gamble, you won't lose your money. Also, professional gambling is designed to force a certain rate of return for the gambling establishment. An occasional person gets lucky, but the community of gamblers lose overall. The purpose of gambling is to win.

Well, I lost ALL of the money I invested in Delta Airlines and 99% of the money I invested in GM. I guess, by this definition, my stock investments were indeed gambling.

Well, see, by your take on things, I knew this guy who got food poisoning and died, so I guess eating is gambling too!

See, that just doesn't make sense. You've got to eat. You've got to do something with your money (letting it sit there in a corner is doing something with it). There are risky and safe things to eat, there are risky and safe things to do with your money. If you eat risky food and get botulism, they don't disfellowship you for gambling. If you invest in the stock market and lose big, they don't disfellowship you for gambling.

See what I'm talking about?

LM

[rameumptom]

Just because you pay your money in hopes of winning a large pot does not make it gambling if enough religious people play the stock market. I mean, if they are willing to ante up their chips for a good stock tip, then who are we to complain if the either hit the daily double or come up without a full hand? It's their own fault if they bet the ranch, right?

'Nuff said.

I'm sorry, but this ended up being a bunch of gibberish, at least to me. I couldn't make sense of it. It any group of people invest in stocks, they are working toward investments. No one thinks that their $100 investment will turn into the $60 million lotto winner tomorrow. They are looking for value that will build personal wealth. This is true for the day trader and the individual who holds the stock for decades.

Yes, there are risks. Some stocks are riskier than others. But advisers tell people all the time to diversify their portfolio. Put moneys in stocks, bonds, money market, etc. How often does someone tell you to do that at the casino? It is a very different concept.

An entry fee into a tournament, whether sports or poker, is not the same as gambling. You know the exact amount you are putting up front. You know you aren't going to be tempted to sell your house or car to be able to stay in play. Whether poker tournaments are a savory place for members to spend their time is another question.

Can a person gamble on the stock market? Yes. It is called over-leveraging. When one borrows excessive amounts to place on risky stocks, it is the same as gambling in many ways. Thousands of Americans and banks did this with the housing market. And they lost.

[Suzie]

True story:

Last Christmas, I sent out 5 scratch-off tickets with my Christmas cards. I got reprimanded by several people because of the gambling aspect.

My intent was not for the gambling, but for the fun of surprises. I love scratch-of games. No, not the lottery ticket - the ones that come as inserts with some publications or sometimes from burgers and fries. I love it, not because I can get a free cheeseburger if I win - but I just love hitting that matching pair! It's fun! I was trying to share this same experience with friends and family, hence the scratch-off tickets - I couldn't think of anything else that has scratch-offs.

Now, a lot of these tickets went out of state - so, the only way they could have claimed a prize was if they drive to Florida to claim them. So, obviously, the intent was not to win money. And besides, I was thinking, if it is a gift, then how can THEY be gambling?

Anyway, I got rebuked by several people. Some of them said I supported a gambling establishment, some said something about the appearance of evil. I agreed after a while of debating it. Although my intent was pure, the feelings it invoked was not good. I learned my lesson.

A scratching ticket they usually give you FOR FREE to win burgers or fries is gambling? Nonsense.

I think sometimes like Pharisees we focus so much on the outside but our inside are rottening. "Oh no, I don't drink Coke or use a scratch ticket to win a free burger, those things are very wrong!" "But hey, I haven't done my Home Teaching for the past two years". So silly.

[nbblood]

Well, see, by your take on things, I knew this guy who got food poisoning and died, so I guess eating is gambling too!

See, that just doesn't make sense. You've got to eat. You've got to do something with your money (letting it sit there in a corner is doing something with it). There are risky and safe things to eat, there are risky and safe things to do with your money. If you eat risky food and get botulism, they don't disfellowship you for gambling. If you invest in the stock market and lose big, they don't disfellowship you for gambling.

See what I'm talking about?

LM

You didn't read the post I made after that, did you? Sometimes continuing to read really helps you out.

[NeuroTypical]

You didn't read the post I made after that, did you? Sometimes continuing to read really helps you out.

The post you made after that was your response to Justice about how you think poker is against the gospel. Didn't really have anything to do with my point about the stock market not being gambling.

But since you've offered a stinging barb, I suppose I must now supply a witty rejoinder. Here ya go:

Hope it was as dismissively insulting as your barb was. Sometimes I have a problem with perspective, so it's hard to tell.

LM

[Moksha]

Yes, there are risks. Some stocks are riskier than others. But advisers tell people all the time to diversify their portfolio. Put moneys in stocks, bonds, money market, etc. How often does someone tell you to do that at the casino? It is a very different concept.

Hey, you've convinced me. Know of any good stock bookies to place a hundred on Intel to show in the 2nd? Not much vig for the stock bookie on this bet, but the purse in low.

BTW, I hear you about that gibberish stuff. Betting jargon like derivatives, vig and arbitrage have that scratch-the-head quality.

[nbblood]

lol....I agree. I was just stirring the pot.

The post you made after that was your response to Justice about how you think poker is against the gospel. Didn't really have anything to do with my point about the stock market not being gambling.

But since you've offered a stinging barb, I suppose I must now supply a witty rejoinder. Here ya go:

Hope it was as dismissively insulting as your barb was. Sometimes I have a problem with perspective, so it's hard to tell.

LM

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/30155-investing-stock-market-gambling-2.html#post475739

Sorry, this is the post I was talking about. No it wasn't immediately after the other post. Sorry for the confusion. Really, I wasn't trying to make a "stinging barb" although I certainly agree that's what it appears to be. Sorry.

I'm done with this thread. Have a nice day.

Edited February 10, 2010 by nbblood

[Guest]

It has everything to do with it. There's an incredibly large difference between matching your skills against another person (or bookie) and coming away victorious.. and betting on whether or not a coin lands on heads or tails. Slots, roulette, etc. That's gambling (and there is a time, place, and attitude for it to be acceptable). Poker, sports betting, etc. are skill based and those who profit from them profit for a reason.. and it's not luck.

It all boils down to (imo) using skills to earn money vs betting on a coin toss. When research, effort, practice, and dedication come into play.. it's sport or work.. and not gambling. I don't really see anything wrong with gambling to begin with, though. Never seen a good argument against it.

bmy-, you're missing the point entirely on what makes it gambling. What makes it gambling is not the SKILL to "earn" the money. It is the VALUE that money-exchange contains.

Let me try to clarify it (not sure if I can do a good job of it, so I apologize in advance):

Okay, so let's say there are 3 people playing against each other on a game of poker. All 3 put in say, $100 to the pot overall. All 3 are highly skilled, professional level card players. In a game, eventually, 1 person will win, the other 2 will loose. So, money moves from 2 people to 1 person - 1 person ends up with $300, the other 2 ends up with -$100.

Basically, the other 2 people PAID the winner $100. The winner gained $200.

So, you say, he earned the money through his skill, it is not gambling. Well, yes, it is gambling because that $200 he earned did not have intrinsic value. What does that mean - basically, IF that $200 had value, the 2 players who PAID the $100/each would have retained some form of value for their money.

Okay, juxtapose that with somebody who uses his skill to make thinga-ma-bobs. It cost him $100 to make 2 thinga-ma-bobs - so he paid into it $100 investment. He finds 2 people that is willing to give him $100 for one thinga-ma-bob. So, he "earns" $200. The value of the thinga-ma-bob in that case is $100. The people who PAID $100 got $100 worth of thinga-ma-bob - so they did not LOSE money.

(Okay, just to head off sidetracking of this issue - the value of something is different for everybody - if I am willing to pay $100 for a pretty dress, the value of that dress to me is $100. Somebody else wouldn't pay more than $20 for that dress - so the value of the dress to her would only be $20... make sense? But, since to me, the dress is worth $100, I am willing to pay $100 for it so I still retained the value of that dress).

Back to the card game - the 2 people who spent $100 did not have anything of value in their hands after the game. You might say - the chance to win money is worth $100 to them - that's GAMBLING. The value is psychologically corrupt because it behooves somebody to put more money into the pot for that chance. Well, if you loose, you got nothing for your money. And if you win - you got something without giving anything of value to the person who gave you the money. There it is - gambling. It doesn't care if you are skillful - somebody has to lose.

Edited February 11, 2010 by anatess

[Guest pennystocks]

You have given very good information.......I appreciate you for that....

Penny Stocks

[bert10]

It is more than that. It is to actively participate with Babylon in the subjugation of others thru high profits and interest rates.

The Lord commanded His people to not loan with Usury which is the modern method of enslavement.

Few of us can buy homes outright and pay cash for it...or even buy a good vehicle without requiring a loan with interest rates attached to it. This is enslavement and the "Establishment" will use the full weight of law in collecting what is due to them.

Interest rates are pretty awful, but compound interest rate is devilish in its nature and keeps adding even on the Sabbath. It is of the Devil and anyone participating in this system is working with the Devil.

Those of us who do not make a high salary have to borrow and be made to pay the interest rate there is no other choice. But to invest and incur on others what is done to us...is not correct.

The Dollar says in GOD We trust doesn't it? I sold all my investments and the asset of my house against my debt ratio is good. If I sold my home I would have money left over after all my debts are paid off. As long as I do not go over, So far so good.

But the day is not far off when the merchants of the earth shall mourn because the people do not buy their wares anymore [Revelation] and this will happen when money is not worth more than the piece of paper that it is printed on.

Do not be deceived God is going to cause the monetary system which was founded in Babylon to completely collapse. Babylon is upheld by three legs like a stool. And if one of the legs is taken out...it is become extremely unstable.

The legs that uphold modern day Babylone are the financial system, the Religious system and the government system.

Religion is too far gone in darkness for God to use it, the governments are corrupt so GOD cannot appeal to them...that leaves the financial system which is the right tool at this time to use, to bring down all the corrupt societies and their wickedness such as abortions and so on.

bert10

Sorry, we should have opened this thread eons ago. We have hijacked the Rated "R" movies thread and it's about time we stop doing that.

So, here is my opening statement.

Stock Market investing is not gambling because by definition, gambling is when you wager money in the hopes of making more money without the benefit of "value". That means, you are buying "chance" which has no intrinsic value of its own.

Buying a stock is not wagering on chance because you actually gain ownership of something that has value. For example - if you buy a McDonald's stock, you are not buying the "chance" that McDonald's will make money, you OWN a piece of McDonald's that you hope will earn money in the future. It is the exact same thing as if you would have opened a McDonald's franchise.

If you wager on a game of poker - there is no value there. What is the product or the service? What did you buy with your wager? Nothing more than a "chance". Because, knowing how to play cards to increase the odds is not a product nor a service that has value outside of "chance".

Okay, anybody remember the dot-com stocks back in 2000? Remember how that bubbled and caused economic chaos? People who IPO'd several of those dot-coms were guilty of gambling. Because, there was no product nor service! A lot of the dot-com businesses was nothing but trying to put a fancy storefront for a non-existent product in the "chance" that people will buy into it!

So, investing in the stock market, in itself is not gambling. But, you can use the stock market to gamble that's for sure.

Here's a link that better explains why Stock Market is not gambling:

The 5 Biggest Stock Market Myths

Okay, let your thoughts be known!

[Guest]

It is more than that. It is to actively participate with Babylon in the subjugation of others thru high profits and interest rates.

The Lord commanded His people to not loan with Usury which is the modern method of enslavement.

Few of us can buy homes outright and pay cash for it...or even buy a good vehicle without requiring a loan with interest rates attached to it. This is enslavement and the "Establishment" will use the full weight of law in collecting what is due to them.

Interest rates are pretty awful, but compound interest rate is devilish in its nature and keeps adding even on the Sabbath. It is of the Devil and anyone participating in this system is working with the Devil.

Those of us who do not make a high salary have to borrow and be made to pay the interest rate there is no other choice. But to invest and incur on others what is done to us...is not correct.

The Dollar says in GOD We trust doesn't it? I sold all my investments and the asset of my house against my debt ratio is good. If I sold my home I would have money left over after all my debts are paid off. As long as I do not go over, So far so good.

But the day is not far off when the merchants of the earth shall mourn because the people do not buy their wares anymore [Revelation] and this will happen when money is not worth more than the piece of paper that it is printed on.

Do not be deceived God is going to cause the monetary system which was founded in Babylon to completely collapse. Babylon is upheld by three legs like a stool. And if one of the legs is taken out...it is become extremely unstable.

The legs that uphold modern day Babylone are the financial system, the Religious system and the government system.

Religion is too far gone in darkness for God to use it, the governments are corrupt so GOD cannot appeal to them...that leaves the financial system which is the right tool at this time to use, to bring down all the corrupt societies and their wickedness such as abortions and so on.

bert10

I re-read it twice and still... don't get it.

God is going to use the collapse of the financial system to punish his people for their wickedness? Is that what you are saying? I somehow miss how this is relevant to the stock market and gambling...

[bert10]

Do not get it?

IF you try it will take time but understanding concerning what I said will come. The law is if we seek we shall find.

Babylon stand for the "world" and it also means.... mystery (as in doing in the dark), deception and confusion.

If you do not understand what is Babylon how could you heed the call of GOD to leave her so that you do not receive of her plagues?

Revelation 18:4 - And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Babylon is all wicked societies that make the world. How can we determine what is a wicked societies? ..the previous post is a help and I will add more here.

Over time, Since the Renaissance, Little by Little Satan manipulated men's view point on morality on what good and evil so now they have fulfilled the prophecy...and today have Call good evil and evil good. Our society is based on wickedness. We justify homelessness, poverty, abortion, same sex marriages and make war on other nations under the guise of freedom...Even pornography is now legal. The Divorce rate is a great abomination. Sins that are manifested before men for example... gluttony is the norm in all things. Gluttony with food cannot be hidden. This sin is on the people for all to see. The punishment is obesity, heart diseases, high blood pressures, strokes, diabetes cancers etc.

Such societies have forsaken God and God is going to burn them as he did Anciently with such societies. It is only a matter of time. The Gathering is not finished yet.

Societies cannot become this wicked if the Religions within it would oppose all the Abominations that societies have legalized today. GOOD GOVERNMENT would see for example the HARM those things do to families and would pass righteous laws. But it does not happen as they continue to legalize and justify great Abominations unto GOD.

Money is what sustain such abominations and makes it work. Money is used to corrupt the officials and to enslave the majority. So you see how the societies we have today would not exist if the majority of the people said no. Today no one can survive unless he deals with money...and whomever control money can use it to reward and to punish any individual. It also a great tool to keep everyone in line.

Right now the number one priority for all nations is the Economy and this will be used as an excuse to pass legislation to force people into accepting and doing what they do not want to do. Does this help?

bert10

I re-read it twice and still... don't get it.

God is going to use the collapse of the financial system to punish his people for their wickedness? Is that what you are saying? I somehow miss how this is relevant to the stock market and gambling...

[MarginOfError]

I'd be curious to see what the market portfolios of the general authorities look like.

[Wingnut]

bert, you seem to have a great knack for going on and on about anything but the topic in any given thread.

[mrmarklin]

The stock market is certainly not gambling as a value is received on one's investment. Of course this is predicated on people making actual investments. Most people in the market don't understand it, nor the companies that they invest in. So they lose money, and call it "gambling". Likewise those who trade in commodities and derivitives and understand the purposes of these tools are also not gambling. These can be useful tools to LOWER risk, not increase it. But since the average investor does not understand the fundamentals of trading in this area it is also called gambling.

By anatess:

Okay, so let's say there are 3 people playing against each other on a game of poker. All 3 put in say, $100 to the pot overall. All 3 are highly skilled, professional level card players. In a game, eventually, 1 person will win, the other 2 will loose. So, money moves from 2 people to 1 person - 1 person ends up with $300, the other 2 ends up with -$100.

This is simply a completely false statement that I cannot let stand. Poker is a zero sum game. Three equally skilled professionals would play "forever" and eventually come out equal. A professional poker player plays against people that are not at his skill levels in understanding the mathematics or psychology of the game. His superior understanding of these areas are his profit margin. Over time, this is a mathematical certainty, there is no luck involved. The random dealing of the cards can appear to have the effect of luck, but a professional player understands how to minimize the effects of "bad" cards and maximize the outcome of "good" cards. I realize you probably don't play poker, but this is the kind of thinking that allows the pros to make money!

[bert10]

Not my problem.

Though I write post explaining things. One should always remember...that if one is acting under the Spirit of GOD he is Justified in all things that he is guided in. In Galatians it is written if we are led by the Spirit we are not under the law. That is one reason why we cannot judge the liberties of others by our own individual conscience. It is enough to know what is good and evil for ourselves.

bert10

[MarginOfError]

So basically, if you claim you're acting under the spirit of god, you can do whatever you want?

COOL!

The spirit of god told me to invest in the stock market, bert.

[Guest]

The stock market is certainly not gambling as a value is received on one's investment. Of course this is predicated on people making actual investments. Most people in the market don't understand it, nor the companies that they invest in. So they lose money, and call it "gambling". Likewise those who trade in commodities and derivitives and understand the purposes of these tools are also not gambling. These can be useful tools to LOWER risk, not increase it. But since the average investor does not understand the fundamentals of trading in this area it is also called gambling.

By anatess:

Okay, so let's say there are 3 people playing against each other on a game of poker. All 3 put in say, $100 to the pot overall. All 3 are highly skilled, professional level card players. In a game, eventually, 1 person will win, the other 2 will loose. So, money moves from 2 people to 1 person - 1 person ends up with $300, the other 2 ends up with -$100.

This is simply a completely false statement that I cannot let stand. Poker is a zero sum game. Three equally skilled professionals would play "forever" and eventually come out equal. A professional poker player plays against people that are not at his skill levels in understanding the mathematics or psychology of the game. His superior understanding of these areas are his profit margin. Over time, this is a mathematical certainty, there is no luck involved. The random dealing of the cards can appear to have the effect of luck, but a professional player understands how to minimize the effects of "bad" cards and maximize the outcome of "good" cards. I realize you probably don't play poker, but this is the kind of thinking that allows the pros to make money!

I used to play... long time ago... black jack and mahjong. Before I came to America even. It's a popular thing for engineering students to try to beat the house. If you play "forever" with unlimited amount of cash, of course, money circulates. But, nobody plays forever. You play until your capital runs out or your time runs out. Professional gamblers go broke because when they are on the losing streak, they expect to win later (which, they eventually will) so they throw their houses for capital to keep the game rolling.

But, my case in point is ONE GAME - or in poker, one hand. Only 1 person can win. The others lose. Therefore, they spent their money without receiving any value for it other than the CHANCE of winning money.

[Guest]

Do not get it?

IF you try it will take time but understanding concerning what I said will come. The law is if we seek we shall find.

Babylon stand for the "world" and it also means.... mystery (as in doing in the dark), deception and confusion.

If you do not understand what is Babylon how could you heed the call of GOD to leave her so that you do not receive of her plagues?

Revelation 18:4 - And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Babylon is all wicked societies that make the world. How can we determine what is a wicked societies? ..the previous post is a help and I will add more here.

Over time, Since the Renaissance, Little by Little Satan manipulated men's view point on morality on what good and evil so now they have fulfilled the prophecy...and today have Call good evil and evil good. Our society is based on wickedness. We justify homelessness, poverty, abortion, same sex marriages and make war on other nations under the guise of freedom...Even pornography is now legal. The Divorce rate is a great abomination. Sins that are manifested before men for example... gluttony is the norm in all things. Gluttony with food cannot be hidden. This sin is on the people for all to see. The punishment is obesity, heart diseases, high blood pressures, strokes, diabetes cancers etc.

Such societies have forsaken God and God is going to burn them as he did Anciently with such societies. It is only a matter of time. The Gathering is not finished yet.

Societies cannot become this wicked if the Religions within it would oppose all the Abominations that societies have legalized today. GOOD GOVERNMENT would see for example the HARM those things do to families and would pass righteous laws. But it does not happen as they continue to legalize and justify great Abominations unto GOD.

Money is what sustain such abominations and makes it work. Money is used to corrupt the officials and to enslave the majority. So you see how the societies we have today would not exist if the majority of the people said no. Today no one can survive unless he deals with money...and whomever control money can use it to reward and to punish any individual. It also a great tool to keep everyone in line.

Right now the number one priority for all nations is the Economy and this will be used as an excuse to pass legislation to force people into accepting and doing what they do not want to do. Does this help?

bert10

Okay, so what you're saying is... anything that has to do with money is evil. Stock market is evil.

So... since you are proud of having such understanding that you can recognize Babylon and steer clear of it... let me ask you. Are you okay with receiving a paycheck?

Edited January 4, 2011 by anatess

[bert10]

This liberty in Christ as the Apostles taught meant that the laws could be not used to prevent us from doing good according to How God reveals it to us.

The people who had received this teaching were warned to not teach it to those whom it would become a stumbling block.

also this Liberty in Christ as the Apostles cautioned was not an occasion to fulfill the lusts of flesh.

Being Led by the Spirit means to be LED by the Spirit...and it is not for doing our will.

For example the law of the Sabbath applies fully except when the Spirit commands to do works that would normally not be done on the Sabbath. A person who is led by the Spirit will not go to football games, spend his time idling at the beach nor buying nor selling on the Sabbath unless he was on a mission from the Spirit.

As the apostles said...we do not abolish the law but establish it. Since it is given as a schoolmaster unto Christ. All men are under the law whether they like it or not until they learn to be led by the Spirit. Men are justified by the Spirit.

bert10

So basically, if you claim you're acting under the spirit of god, you can do whatever you want?

COOL!

The spirit of god told me to invest in the stock market, bert.

[MarginOfError]

This liberty in Christ as the Apostles taught meant that the laws could be not used to prevent us from doing good according to How God reveals it to us.

The people who had received this teaching were warned to not teach it to those whom it would become a stumbling block.

also this Liberty in Christ as the Apostles cautioned was not an occasion to fulfill the lusts of flesh.

Being Led by the Spirit means to be LED by the Spirit...and it is not for doing our will.

For example the law of the Sabbath applies fully except when the Spirit commands to do works that would normally not be done on the Sabbath. A person who is led by the Spirit will not go to football games, spend his time idling at the beach nor buying nor selling on the Sabbath unless he was on a mission from the Spirit.

As the apostles said...we do not abolish the law but establish it. Since it is given as a schoolmaster unto Christ. All men are under the law whether they like it or not until they learn to be led by the Spirit. Men are justified by the Spirit.

bert10

But how exactly can you, bert, decipher when I, MOE, am being led by the Spirit and when I am not. Because, seriously, the Spirit led me to invest in the stock market.

[bert10]

That is the beauty of it....It is not my job to judge you whether you are doing good or evil. It is not anybody Job to judge except them that God will appoint as a spiritual leader to you. Do you know why?

Because the motivation is of the heart and mind are hidden. And only GOD knows what is in our heart and mind.

Only those who are put over your head are allowed to judge you since God would also give them the Spirit of Judgment.

Few realize this..but it is not our job to judge others unless God gives to us to do. It is a sin make others walk by our own knowledge of good and evil.

We all know that doing certain works on the Sabbath is Generally a sin and we can say it. But to go and say to an individual doing that very same work that it is a sin...is error on our part. We ought to inquire first and then bring the person to a Judge of Israel. WE need to separate the actions from the motivation behind them.

Israel had not learned this and were condemned by God as God judged them and applied twain to the level they judged others.

For example...GENERALLY we are to do no works on the Sabbath that can be done on other days of the week. And the Jews considered that Healing the sick was a work that could be done on other days of the week. Jesus taught them that works of mercy, love and compassion...was not under the law..because they relate of the Spirit.

There are no laws against works of love, mercy or compassion.

Do you understand now...whether someone invest in the stock market which is dealing with money as an individual it is not my problem but God's.

Doing certain works on the Sabbath is breaking the covenant of the Lord..EXCEPT WHEN GOD says to do it.

The question is now...Who can say if an individual that is cutting the grass on the Sabbath is breaking the Sabbath or that GOD has said it should be done for an old lady on that very day?

The Lord said Judge ye not. Cutting the grass on the Sabbath is transgressing the laws. But no guilt is attached to it if we are following the Spirit...for God shall Justify before the Father all those who are acting according to His will.

bert10

But how exactly can you, bert, decipher when I, MOE, am being led by the Spirit and when I am not. Because, seriously, the Spirit led me to invest in the stock market.