Can one prophet be greater than another?

[seekerw]

I joined the church almost 30 years and have been active in it ever since. I have a testimony of the gospel. I have a strong testimony of Joseph Smith being a prophet and do not wish to detract in the slightest from his accomplishments and character.

However, there is something I struggle with -- D&C 135:3, in which John Taylor wrote that Joseph Smith "has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it". It somewhat bothers me to compare one prophet to another, as if they were in competition with each other and that one should be esteemed any higher than another. It seems more like a worldly mindset than a spiritual one to start comparing and ranking prophets against each other.

Does anybody here have any thoughts on this?

[bytebear]

There are greater prophets and lesser prophets. This has nothing to do with authority, but rather what their role is. The greater prophets are rare indeed. They are the ones who open dispensations or save a people in their dispensation, restoring truth after apostasy. They are Adam, Noah, Enoch, Moses, Jesus Christ (or Peter, depending on how you look at it), and Joseph Smith. There are others we may not know about, for example, Lehi was not known of until the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.

Joseph Smith is the greatest of the great, because he is the restorer of the final dispensation, opening the gospel literally to then entire planet, and establishing temples to pave the way to redeem the dead in a way never before done in history. But he is not greater than Christ, because simply, his goal is to bring people to Christ.

[Just_A_Guy]

It somewhat bothers me to compare one prophet to another, as if they were in competition with each other and that one should be esteemed any higher than another. It seems more like a worldly mindset than a spiritual one to start comparing and ranking prophets against each other.

Well, consider the following scriptures:

Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist:

Matthew 11:11

and

For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist:

Luke 7:28

[Traveler]

I joined the church almost 30 years and have been active in it ever since. I have a testimony of the gospel. I have a strong testimony of Joseph Smith being a prophet and do not wish to detract in the slightest from his accomplishments and character.

However, there is something I struggle with -- D&C 135:3, in which John Taylor wrote that Joseph Smith "has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it". It somewhat bothers me to compare one prophet to another, as if they were in competition with each other and that one should be esteemed any higher than another. It seems more like a worldly mindset than a spiritual one to start comparing and ranking prophets against each other.

Does anybody here have any thoughts on this?

I agree. Sometimes I wonder why some of our great leaders in the Priesthood teach that one calling is not really greater than another then proceed to tell us how they were humbled to be called an Apostle.

The Traveler

[bytebear]

Do some research on "greater and lesser prophets" along with Dispensationalism.

[marts1]

I agree. Sometimes I wonder why some of our great leaders in the Priesthood teach that one calling is not really greater than another then proceed to tell us how they were humbled to be called an Apostle.

The Traveler

Could possibly have something to do with the natural world still having its effect on us all.

[john doe]

There are greater Prophets and lesser Prophets throughout time. This does not mean that the lesser Prophets were any less righteous than the greater ones, but more likely they were foreordained to performed certain things and fulfilled those callings. Some are called to performed huge miracles and bring forth large things, some are called to simply carry on the work started by others. As long as they stay righteous and follow the guidance of God, then they are just as valiant as any other.

As to Traveler's comment about new Apostles being humbled by the calling, maybe they are humbled by the greater expectations placed upon them that come with the calling. I think it may be part of the whole 'much given, much required' thing. Some of those were probably planning on having comfortable retirements with the expectation that they would be able to move about and go places when and where they please, and now they are looking at spending the rest of their lives proclaiming the Gospel and representing Christ and the Church as needed by Him, with family time and rest greatly reduced.

[NeuroTypical]

God's children are not of the same usefulness in forwarding the Kingdom of God. Some are more useful than others.

There's nothing wrong with that.

[mikbone]

Joseph Smith is the greatest prophet in this dispensation. Adam was the greatest prophet during his dispensation. I would love to see them arm wrestle. If I was a betting man I'd put my money on Adam...

[marts1]

You did hear how Joseph took on that town strongman with one arm didn't you.:)

[marts1]

When the people asked Alma to be thier king, he refused giving the reason that one person should not look upon another as being greater. The church teaches this concept as well. I think it was Pres. Kimball who said that his most important responsibilty was that of being a hometeacher.

[Blackmarch]

I joined the church almost 30 years and have been active in it ever since. I have a testimony of the gospel. I have a strong testimony of Joseph Smith being a prophet and do not wish to detract in the slightest from his accomplishments and character.

However, there is something I struggle with -- D&C 135:3, in which John Taylor wrote that Joseph Smith "has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it". It somewhat bothers me to compare one prophet to another, as if they were in competition with each other and that one should be esteemed any higher than another. It seems more like a worldly mindset than a spiritual one to start comparing and ranking prophets against each other.

Does anybody here have any thoughts on this?

yes. I haven't seen any prophets taken up to heaven in a fiery chariot recently so I suppose there can be differences to "How Great" a prophet can be.

I don't think it matters tho, as long as they striving to do their best to be Gods servant, if he's called them there, then he'll provide for them, and they'll be able to do their job with God's strength.

[Danite]

Yes, There are differences in prophets, Joseph Smith was a prophets prophet. Depending on the mission they are called to. Reading the scriptures show's us the many differences in the lives of individual prophets. I hope this doesn't lessen your belief in our modern prophets. I thank Heavenly Father for the fact me have a prophet on the earth to help guide us home.

[Traveler]

Could possibly have something to do with the natural world still having its effect on us all.

I very much agree. Apostles are not different creations but they are human just like the rest of us. It is interesting to me that a humble calling is not as humbling as a grand calling.

The Traveler

[seekerw]

Thanks for your replies, everybody.

I believe in God's eyes that all prophets are equal, as long as they fulfill their missions faithfully. From the parable of the laborers hired all throughout the day and into the 11th hour, I conclude that all people, prophets or otherwise, are equally important to God as long as they are ready and willing to do the Lord's will, whether he calls them to be a prophet or a ward librarian or whatever.

I believe that Jesus told the Jews that no greater prophet had arisen before John the Baptist to signify that John was every bit as great as Moses and Elijah and other prophets whom the Jews revered. Hence no greater prophet than John had arisen.

The distinction between greater and lesser prophets, in my opinion, has more to do with the length of their respective writings in the scriptures than anything else, but then that's just my perspective.

In men's eyes, some prophets might seem greater, depending on one's perspective and on the prophets with whom one is more personally familiar. But I'm not going to judge anybody else's perspective.

[marts1]

I very much agree. Apostles are not different creations but they are human just like the rest of us. It is interesting to me that a humble calling is not as humbling as a grand calling.

The Traveler

The head cannot stand without the foot..:)

[rameumptom]

I don't think John Taylor was saying Joseph Smith was greater than any prophet, but he had done more for the salvation of mankind, save Jesus.

No other prophet restored the fullness of the gospel and priesthood. No other established a foundation that has led to 1Million missionaries, 150 million Books of Mormon printed in dozens of languages, 133 active temples, 14 million members, and a whole list of other accomplishments. All of these lead to man's salvation, and have opened the door for millions to be saved, both living and dead.

Only Jesus has done more.

[Faded]

I joined the church almost 30 years and have been active in it ever since. I have a testimony of the gospel. I have a strong testimony of Joseph Smith being a prophet and do not wish to detract in the slightest from his accomplishments and character.

However, there is something I struggle with -- D&C 135:3, in which John Taylor wrote that Joseph Smith "has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it". It somewhat bothers me to compare one prophet to another, as if they were in competition with each other and that one should be esteemed any higher than another. It seems more like a worldly mindset than a spiritual one to start comparing and ranking prophets against each other.

Does anybody here have any thoughts on this?

First of all, I think it needs to understood that John Taylor had just lost one of his dearest friends. It is understandable that he's is going to offer the highest possible praise for Joseph Smith.

Now take a moment to consider: There are over 6 billion people living on the earth today, which is far more than sum total of people who were born, lived and died prior to 200AD (roughly the date by which the Apostasy of the original Church of Jesus Christ was complete.)

Today, there are approximately 14 million members of the restored Church of Jesus Christ right now. That number almost certainly represents a larger number of of People of God than there ever has been at the same time in the history of humankind. And it is the mission of this restored Church of Jesus Christ to:

A.) Take the gospel to everyone on this earth, all 6+ billion of them.

B.) Research and do the work for everyone who lived and died without knowledge of the gospel -- and that includes everyone who lived from 200AD till today. It also includes everyone who the Children of Israel and other peoples of God failed to reach with the message of the Gospel. (And in virtually every age of human history, that is almost certainly the vast majority of the people living on the earth.)

Temple work for the dead existed amongst the original Church of Jesus Christ, but they did not have nearly as many resources to accomplish that work. The bulk of all work for the dead for everyone who ever lived throughout human history began with the restoration of the keys to this work through Joseph Smith and finishes sometime during the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ.

Also consider that Joseph Smith Jr. is the first and most important prophet of the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. In plain old English, this is the People of God established to prepare the world for the imminent second coming of Christ.

Taking these facts into consideration, what John Taylor said makes sense. It doesn't mean that Joseph Smith is better than any prior prophets and apostles, but the impact of the work God wrought through him is numerically bigger than anything that came before it. None of the prophets and apostles lived in a time of such unprecedented increase in world population.

[Blackmarch]

I'd also like to point out that there are many different spiritual strengths all of which are great in their own way... and that different prophets are strong in different areas of such and not so great in others, for instance i recall someone (can't remember the name sorry) to have said their son that how they wished their children could have been alive to be able to hear Joseph smith bear testimony, because no one else in their experience had testified with such power... And that was either during Brigham Young's tiem or John Taylor's time as prophet.

Does that mean that JS was greater in ability to testify than BY (or any of the others after JS)? Probably.. Does that mean that BY was less of a prophet or less important? no.

[seekerw]

First of all, I think it needs to understood that John Taylor had just lost one of his dearest friends. It is understandable that he's is going to offer the highest possible praise for Joseph Smith.

...

I understand that John Taylor would want to offer the highest possible praise for Joseph, but the fact that this was accepted into the D&C means that it's official church doctrine. If it was not in the D&C, I never would have given this matter a second thought.

You have a good point about Smith's numerical influence on mankind. From that standpoint, his influence is perhaps greater than any other prophet. I suppose influence doesn't have to equate to greatness of the individual, although I certainly think Joseph was a great individual.

[Moksha]

God's children are not of the same usefulness in forwarding the Kingdom of God. Some are more useful than others.

You mean in terms of paying more tithing, being called to different positions or motherhood?