are you kidding?

[dazed-and-confused]

are there REALLY LDS women that think that all they have to do is bare children and keep a clean house to make it to the ultimate blessing?

Women of the Church....where are you?

[Dravin]

I doubt it, if they are LDS they should grasp that Faith in Jesus Christ (and the other first principles of the Gospel) are gonna be involved somewhere.

[prisonchaplain]

are there REALLY LDS women that think that all they have to do is bare children and keep a clean house to make it to the ultimate blessing?

Women of the Church....where are you?

If you really want that kind of thinking, you need to date some of the good women in the Assemblies of God. :D:D

Seriously, there probably is some of that thinking in most conservative groups in most religions...but, as Dravin readily pointed out...it's pretty superficial, and usually misses the deeper, relational spiritual righteousness that Heavenly Father finds so pleasing.

[dazed-and-confused]

thank you.....thank you......i so agree with you.....is it curious or simply a matter of timing......where are the feminine responses?

fact is...too many women depend upon some crap idea of manhood to take charge of their own lives.

WOMEN....YOU ARE DAUGHTERS OF HF........but don't take it for granted......

MEN......YOU ARE SONS OF HF........but don't take it for granted

[Gwen]

if that's what it takes to get to the celestial kingdom then i'm out. once you've had enough kids you can forget keeping the house clean.

i think most lds women actually feel quite a lot of pressure on all the things we are "supposed" to do.

- vt and not just a visit but some gift or service or "special woman's touch" to everything.

- lessons which also have to have that "women's touch".

- taking care of your neighbor.

- being involved in the schools and other community things.

- being the example of what "happy" lds women are.

- never in a foul mood.

- always pleasant to the kids.

- perfectly groomed and pleasant for our husband when he gets home with a smile and a kiss because he has "had a hard day" and needs our "support". we never have a bad day?

- canning, gardening, perfectly rotated food storage.

- emergency kits that include more than the essentials but "fun" things for the kids so they don't feel the anxiety of being in an "emergency" situation.

- making sure you boys get their eagle and the girls get the young womanhood recognition.

- taking food to the the sick, new mom's, elderly.

- making sure the less actives and the potential converts have little "special" tokens to show we care.

- helping the missionaries by letting them bring investigators into our homes (which comes with massive cleaning events).

- feeding the missionaries.

ummmm i know i'm missing something, but that's all i can think of off the top of my head.

Edited May 2, 2010 by Gwen

[dazed-and-confused]

if that's what it takes to get to the celestial kingdom then i'm out. once you've had enough kids you can forget keeping the house clean.

i think most lds women actually feel quite a lot of pressure on all the things we are "supposed" to do. vt and not just a visit but some gift or service or "special woman's touch" to everything. lessons which also have to have that "women's touch". taking care of your neighbor. being involved in the schools and other community things. being the example of what "happy" lds women are. never in a foul mood. always pleasant to the kids. perfectly groomed and pleasant for our husband when he gets home with a smile and a kiss because he has "had a hard day" and needs our "support". we never have a bad day? canning, gardening, perfectly rotated food storage. emergency kits that include more than the essentials but "fun" things for the kids so they don't feel the anxiety of being in an "emergency" situation. making sure you boys get their eagle and the girls get the young womanhood recognition. taking food to the the sick, new mom's, elderly. making sure the less actives and the potential converts have little "special" tokens to show we care. helping the missionaries by letting them bring investigators into our homes (which comes with massive cleaning events). feeding the missionaries. ..... ummmm i know i'm missing something, but that's all i can think of off the top of my head.

my darling gwen...that you SO much. men go to war. you have no idea of the horror...the death.....the blood.

and then there MAY be a REAL woman...a warrior woman......with the sence of life, even as a warrior man may be filled with the sence of death...for survival....and the woman is filled with life...LIFE.......you have no idea how much a warrior encased in death...strives for life.

[Bini]

I wouldn't do a lot of that stuff on Gwen's list. Mostly, because a lot of that just isn't my personality.. I don't see myself canning or feeding missionaries, etc etc.

[dazed-and-confused]

whatever

[Bini]

whatever

If that's directed to me, why so testy?

My point was that if that's what it takes to get to the celestial kingdom, then I'm out too with Gwen. I just don't ever see myself fulfilling all those "roles".

[dazed-and-confused]

If that's directed to me, why so testy?

My point was that if that's what it takes to get to the celestial kingdom, then I'm out too with Gwen. I just don't ever see myself fulfilling all those "roles".

my sincere apologies......i will admit that i am in a mood....i do beg your pardon.

fact is...i admire women who stand up and don't take crap simply because they are women.

i had a statement here, but it doesn't matter.

[Wingnut]

whatever

If that's directed to me, why so testy?

My point was that if that's what it takes to get to the celestial kingdom, then I'm out too with Gwen. I just don't ever see myself fulfilling all those "roles".

my sincere apologies......i will admit that i am in a mood....i do beg your pardon.

fact is...i admire women who stand up and don't take crap simply because they are women.

i had a statement here, but it doesn't matter.

I guess it's a good thing that you're on here looking for women who "don't take crap," since you're readily giving it.

[mightynancy]

Has somebody been reading Fascinating Womanhood? Oh my.

[dizzysmiles]

Men and Women are made differently but also divinelyfor their roles. I read about how In Israel, Men and Women have to join the army. It's one thing if you WANT to but, I tell you what, I think Id be the first to die. Unless of course someone made me really mad.....I might take a few out but, ya Id still be the first to die. I'm not as strong as my husband even though I like to think I am. I think God wants us to be happy, not just here to be a portal to bare children. He wants us to be able to TAKE Care of the children as well, not just be like the old woman in the shoe. I enjoy and love my children, they bring my husband and I such joy. I also enjoy cleaning the house, so that my husband and I can relax when he gets home and have our friends over and feel refreshed socially too. I can be stubborn (so my husband says) so honestly, I wouldn't be doing anything I didn't want to, and If I did, It's because I knew in my heart there was a bigger picture that I can not yet see.

Edited May 3, 2010 by dizzysmiles

[Elgama]

I know women for who having children and homemaking are an important part of who they are, and why shouldn't it be? I think of the story of Mary and Martha, Martha was only condemned for her way of serving when she said Mary's way of serving was wrong. We have needs of all kinds of women in the church, and for some raising righteous children with a smile on their face is there way of doing it. I'm not so bad at raising the kids but struggle with the smiling clean house bit:)

[dazed-and-confused]

Men and Women are made differently but also divinelyfor their roles. I read about how In Israel, Men and Women have to join the army. It's one thing if you WANT to but, I tell you what, I think Id be the first to die..

the last that i heard, women in Isreal might still have to join the army, but very few (if any) are put into combat because of the men's natural instinct to protect them when they are in danger, moreso that to protect other men, and too many men were being killed as a result of it.

[dazed-and-confused]

I know women for who having children and homemaking are an important part of who they are, and why shouldn't it be? I think of the story of Mary and Martha, Martha was only condemned for her way of serving when she said Mary's way of serving was wrong. We have needs of all kinds of women in the church, and for some raising righteous children with a smile on their face is there way of doing it. I'm not so bad at raising the kids but struggle with the smiling clean house bit:)

i couldn't agree more. thank you very much. my original post was inspired by someone that had a somewhat lesser view of their roles in the home and at church.

[Gwen]

my darling gwen...that you SO much. men go to war. you have no idea of the horror...the death.....the blood.

and then there MAY be a REAL woman...a warrior woman......with the sence of life, even as a warrior man may be filled with the sence of death...for survival....and the woman is filled with life...LIFE.......you have no idea how much a warrior encased in death...strives for life.

reading this i thought of something a friend of mine used to say. life is like giving birth. it's hard work, painful, messy, bloody, and involves a lot of tears. in the end there is joy.

everyone is at war. we may be fighting different battles but some of the details are the same.

[dizzysmiles]

the last that i heard, women in Isreal might still have to join the army, but very few (if any) are put into combat because of the men's natural instinct to protect them when they are in danger, moreso that to protect other men, and too many men were being killed as a result of it.

Yes if you are a very orthodox Jew you can omit going into the army, male or female. I think this would be true even in America. Women aren't allowed on the front lines, and I honestly think its good thing.A. too distracting. B. If a woman gets shot a man is more likely to go run to her to help her. That's my two cents anyways lol

[dizzysmiles]

reading this i thought of something a friend of mine used to say. life is like giving birth. it's hard work, painful, messy, bloody, and involves a lot of tears. in the end there is joy.

everyone is at war. we may be fighting different battles but some of the details are the same.

I used to wonder when all the horrific things would happen here, because before the second coming we know it will get much worse. It wasn't until recently I thought that it doesn't have to be physically horrific. Rightnow the attack is on the family, and although it can't always be seen, it's horrific, and if Satan wins, he hasn't just tortoured and killed someone here on earth, he has ruined an eternal round

[Tarnished]

This post topic makes me think of this poem:

The Girl in a Whirl

by ‘Dr. Sue’ (a.k.a. Vickie Gunther)

Look at me, look at me, look at me now!

You could do what I do

If you only knew how.

I study the scriptures one hour each day;

I bake,

I upholster,

I scrub,

and I pray.

I always keep all the commandments completely;

I speak to my little ones gently and sweetly.

I help in their classrooms!

I sew all they wear!

I drive them to practice!

I cut all their hair!

I memorize names of the General Authorities;

I focus on things to be done by priorities.

I play the piano!

I bless with my talents!

My toilets all sparkle!

My checkbooks all balance!

Each week every child gets a one-on-one date;

I attend all my meetings (on time! Never late!)

I’m taking a class on the teachings of Paul,

But that is not all! Oh, no. That is not all .

I track my bad habits ’til each is abolished;

Our t-shirts are ironed!

My toenails are polished!

Our family home evenings are always delightful;

The lessons I give are both fun and insightful.

I do genealogy faithfully, too.

It’s easy to do all the things that I do!

I rise each day early, refreshed and awake;

I know all the names of each youth in my stake!

I read to my children!

I help all my neighbors!

I bless the community, too, with my labors.

I exercise and I cook menus gourmet;

My visiting teaching is done the first day!

(I also go do it for someone who missed hers.

It’s the least I can do for my cherished ward sisters.)

I chart resolutions and check off each goal;

I seek each “lost lamb” on my Primary roll.

I can home-grown produce each summer and fall.

But that is not all! Oh, no. That is not all .

I write in my journal!

I sing in the choir!

Each day, I write “thank you’s” to those I admire.

My sons were all Eagles when they were fourteen!

My kids get straight A’s!

And their bedrooms are clean!

I have a home business to help make some money;

I always look beautifully groomed for my honey.

I go to the temple at least once a week;

I change the car’s tires!

I fix the sink’s leak!

I grind my own wheat and I bake all our bread;

I have all our meals planned out six months ahead.

I make sure I rotate our two-years’ supply;

My shopping for Christmas is done by July!

These things are not hard;

’tis good if you do them;

You can if you try!

Just set goals and pursue them!

It’s easy to do all the things that I do!

If you plan and work smart, you can do them all, too!

It’s easy!” she said

and then she dropped dead.

I think that anyone whoever they are and whatever gender they are the best thing they can do to obtain their blessings in heaven is to try their best to be a good person. There are some people who seem to have endless energy and can do all sorts of things. But then there are other people who never will have that level of energy. As long as we try to do the best we can in whatever role we find ourselves in I think we will be just fine.

I know there are women out there who think that they will be fine if they are the perfect little housewife, but it really is not the truth. Any woman no matter where she finds herself in life can gain their eternal salvation. The true key is living our lives so that the Savior would be proud of us. The simple things of reading our scriptures, saying our prayers, attending church all help us to get there. The physical things will come and go, but the spiritual things will last. Jesus will not care if we had a spotless house, but he will care if we allowed ourselves to be drawn away from him. Focus on the spiritual first, focus on your families, and everything else will make do.

[Gwen]

so what about the men that think they don't have to do anything but go to work and church? they think they are "babysitting" their kids when the wife is off at enrichment meeting. which is ever so generous of them because... well... that's not their job. they are giving "service" to the wife. they shouldn't have to come home from work and do anything, they have been at work all day (she has it easy she doesn't go to work), the house is the wife's "role". cook dinner only on special occasions as a "gift". it only makes since that she be responsible for the bills and budget since it's her "role" to do all the shopping for the household.

notice i say it's the woman's "role". she doesn't have a job. if it were called a "job" or "work" then it would kill the entire argument that he gets to come home and lazy all night while she takes care of everything, because he actually works.

i'm not saying this is what i think most men believe. just the opening post of this thread i think reflects the minority of women not the majority and it's mildly offensive to the majority. thought i'd throw the guy version out there.

[Hemidakota]

are there REALLY LDS women that think that all they have to do is bare children and keep a clean house to make it to the ultimate blessing?

Women of the Church....where are you?

Hopefully not...the church would not be where it is at today without the aid of the women in it.

[dizzysmiles]

I think Eve was the first to partake of the fruit because you know how hard it is to get a guy to want to have kids? .. That being said I dunno if Children were the punsishment or not... jk

I honestly think raising children is a HUGE job, bigger than any out there because it affects generations to come. So to the OP What is it exactly you want women to do besides all that listed in the poem tarnished put up?

Edited May 4, 2010 by dizzysmiles

[Guest mormonmusic]

One need I have in marriage is to be spared of the day to day cleaning so I can provide for the family. So, a clean house is something that generates major love for my wife from me. Particularly when I've worked long hours and want to enjoy time with my family. I don'[t feel I can do it when there is 4 hours of housekeeping to be done just to make the place reasonably sanitary, So, while I don't think all those women's roles are necessary for salvation, they are critical to a happy marriage in our situation. Just like enough financial support from myself is critical to my wife's happiness. She has a really high need for financial support and I meet that need, but it takes time. So, in my view, she should keep the house clean to provide similar love in our relationship. If I refused to go to work, was content with poverty-line wages, etcetera, it would definitely hurt our marriage and not meet her needs. It's a two-way street.

My job keeps me really busy, and I have a FT, Part-time job, plus i go to school. I've managed to provide a decent income for the family and have always missed the bullet of downsizing because I had such a broad range of skills. It allows my wife something she wants -- the ability to stay home and take courses so she can reenter the workforce some day, after our children are grown, sleep, watch TV, and be on the computer, puruse activities with her friends, and be involved in school and children's activities,. I couldn't provide all this if I had to put in another 20 hours a week of cleaning and organizing. So, she benefits by taking charge of the cleaning (when she does it).

I don't see this expectation that she does the major parts of the house work as male chauvanism -- we both agree with this arrangement in principle. I see certain roles are critical to the success of marriages, depending on the emotional needs of the husband and wife.

One thing, the Openign post sounds a little bit like you're broaching on man-hating in general as a result of this (correct me if I'm wrong, this is just the impression I received from the limited view of your situation here). I think one has to be careful of this, because not all men are chauvanistic, stereotyping women, etcetera. Many are kind, supportive and respectful.

I've had to learn to deal with the fact that my wife has little interest in keeping our house clean, and its subtracted significantly from the love in our marriage and what it could be. I keep my mouth shut because it upsets her if I harp on it, unless things get so out of control I can't take it anymore. In which I case, I say "If this house doesn't get cleaned up , I'm going to snap. Can you stop facebooking and come and help me???". This happens once every 4-6 months. She usually comes and helps me because I've told her that that statement is a trigger for me to just up and leave and get a hotel for a day or two until they learn to appreciate the hours I put in to provide them with a lifestyle they want and enjoy.

Edited May 4, 2010 by mormonmusic

[Gwen]

i'm not saying this is what i think most men believe. just the opening post of this thread i think reflects the minority of women not the majority and it's mildly offensive to the majority. thought i'd throw the guy version out there.

i don't think the scenario i presented is any more the majority than the op of this thread about women thinking all they have to do is keep house and birth babies is true of the majority of women.