What is the country coming to!?

[LostSheep]

Anyone see this news story?

Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Tees - NBCBAYAREA- msnbc.com

Yep...Political Correctness in action.

Thoughts?

[Guest]

A side note to this thread:

In the Philippines, it is illegal to wear the Philippine flag as clothing. This is considered defacing the flag and is punishable with the same penalty as treason. Adidas came up with the Philippine Flag jacket design (worn by Manny Pacquiao's team), they got away with it because they purchased it in the US. But, they couldn't come home to the Philippines with them.

The Philippine Flag represents the country. It comes with Philippine pride and national identity. You burn it, wear it, use it other than as a flag, it's treason.

I wish Americans would treat the American flag the same way.

[Dravin]

I wish Americans would treat the American flag the same way.

I do too, but out of respect for what it represents not out of fear of the law. I see the flag as ultimately a piece of cloth, albeit one representing great ideals, owned as private property and thus, like a Book of Mormon, if someone wants to burn it or soak it in urine to make a point they can and should be able to. Until the sentiments behind burning a flag are considered treason here it would be odd to make how you say it, by burning a flag, treason.

[FunkyTown]

Thankfully, from the news article, it looks like the school district disagreed with the administrations interpretation.

Being a somewhat confrontational individual, were I one of the kids, I'd have shown up the next day with a 'Remember the Alamo' hat, a French flag on my right shoulder, an American flag on my left shoulder and 'Santa Anna - Hahah. That's a girl's name' T-shirt.

[talisyn]

Technically we in the USA are not suppose to wear the American flag as clothing. Here I sit with my Faded Glory t-shirt printed with the American flag as a map...but I feel bad about it

[Wingnut]

I knew a LOT of Mexican on my mission. I didn't serve in MX, but I was Spanish-speaking in California's Central Valley area. Ironically, almost none of them celebrated Cinco de Mayo as anything more than an excuse to party and drink tequila.

[Gwen]

does it count as wearing the "flag" if you have clothing that is red, white, and blue, with stars and stripes?

for example this is a photo of our flag....

this is red, white, and blue with stars and strips but is not my country's flag....

am i the only one that sees a difference?

as for the article i had seen that story. if i were the principle i would tell them they are more than welcome to wear the mexican flag on july 4th or memorial day or any other day they so desire.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Gwen

[ADoyle90815]

I think with the bandanna, the student wearing that could have been violating the dress code, as in many school districts, all bandannas are banned, regardless of what design they are as it can be considered gang attire. Cinco de Mayo isn't even a national holiday in Mexico, it's a regional holiday that is celebrated more in the US, but as an excuse to eat Mexican food and drink margaritas.

I do think those students should have been allowed to wear their shirts, as it was their right to do so. The Supreme Court even said once that "a student's First Amendment rights do not end at the schoolhouse door."

[NeuroTypical]

Interesting thing:

Cinco de Mayo is about as noticed in Mexico, as Pearl Harbor day or V-E day is here in the states. Actually, Cinco de Mayo was about that interesting everywhere, until about 30 years ago.

Beer importers were making lots of money - especially German beers. The Corona Beer company in Mexico wanted some of these profits. So they embarked on a big marketing campaign to make Cinco de Mayo a new "party and drink beer" day. It worked so amazingly well, that now have this dumb news story.

(You can almost hear the announcer: ) "Cinco de Mayo - brought to you by ... Beer! Yes, cool, refreshing Beer! Because "Diez y Seis De Septeimbre" is just too hard to say!"

What nonsense.

LM

p.s. - September 16th is Mexican independence day, in case you spoke spanish and were wondering.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[prisonchaplain]

Some observations:

1. Mexican-Americans, especially in light of Arizona's new law, and for the past generation at least, have struggled with the reality that even fourth generation Americans are sometimes perceived at first as illegals.

2. We've all been taught that we have our day coming.

3. Two Mexican-heritage students interviewed said they believed the boys were intentionally slighting their day--that they would not wear Mexican flags on the 4th of July, to distract from its meaning.

4. Regardless of it's history, Cinco de Mayo is a day of pride for Mexican-Americans. In tense political times, the current reality needs to be considered.

BUT...Since when is an a country's flag disrespectful to anyone in that country!!!" Had I been one of the students, and been as brave as I am now, I might have responded to the Asst. Principal, "Sir, we mean no disrespect for your flag, or your holiday. Likewise, I'm not sure why you perceive what is suppose to ALSO BE YOUR FLAG--AND MINE--in that light."

[Faded]

To attempt to punish anyone for wearing an American Flag anything is just silly. This case is the equivalent of punishing Mexicans for wearing any Mexican flag designs at a tourist resort on the 4th of July -- just because there's likely to be a lot of American tourists at the resort. If you want to be patriotic in your own country, then by all means, be patriotic.

But I can see where PC is coming from. Mexicans are just one segment of the Latino immigrants and in many ways they are viewed with the same contempt and mistrust that the Irish were 100+ years ago. I guess we never learn, though we're not as bad as we once were.

Here's a blast from the past for you:

----------------------

I do think the most appropriate thing would be to wear both, something like this:

[Wingnut]

I do think the most appropriate thing would be to wear both, something like this:

That might work if the students in question were Mexican-Americans. Though I read the article this morning and don't remember details, I don't believe they were.

[Faded]

That might work if the students in question were Mexican-Americans. Though I read the article this morning and don't remember details, I don't believe they were.

If you mean the Latino kids; Well ... it is a Mexican holiday we're talking about:

Cinco de Mayo (Spanish for "fifth of May") is a holiday held on May 5 that commemorates the Mexican army's unlikely victory over French forces at the Battle of Puebla on May 5, 1862, under the leadership of General Ignacio Zaragoza Seguín. It is celebrated primarily in the state of Puebla and in the United States. While Cinco de Mayo sees limited significance and celebration nationwide in Mexico, the date is observed nationwide in the United States and other locations around the world as a celebration of Mexican heritage and pride. Cinco de Mayo is not Mexico's Independence Day, the most important national patriotic holiday in Mexico.

But as for the non-Mexican kids wearing American flag stuff -- I don't understand why this is offensive, even if they were trying to be offensive. Why did it bother anyone to begin with? Seems like there should need to be something more to it. Something directly slanderous of Latinos or Mexicans. Do they consider the American Flag offensive? If so, why?

[prisonchaplain]

If you mean the Latino kids; Well ... it is a Mexican holiday we're talking about:

But as for the non-Mexican kids wearing American flag stuff -- I don't understand why this is offensive, even if they were trying to be offensive. Why did it bother anyone to begin with? Seems like there should need to be something more to it. Something directly slanderous of Latinos or Mexicans. Do they consider the American Flag offensive? If so, why?

There is an answer to this. I lived in Miami during the Elian Gonzalez controversy. As a quick recap, Elian was a 5-year old boy who, with his mother, escaped Cuba, and made it to Miami. However, his mother drowned, so relatives took him in. The father (separated or divorced from the mother) demanded custody. He lived in Cuba. The result was a year-long political firestorm. As far as the Cuban-American community was concerned Fidel Castro was Antichrist, and Elian's father was not free to express his true feelings. The child should stay in the USA, according to his dead mother's wishes.

During this year there were numerous demonstrations, a crowd of Cuban-Americans always surrounded Elian's Little Havana home...and we federal workers learned to pocket our IDs when we left work. You could tell one's political views on this matter (pro-Cuban-American vs. Pro-Clinton government) by the flags flying from cars. The former flew Cuban flags, the latter American ones. Occasionally people vandalized one another's flags. There were physical altercations that erupted out of political discussions. The atmosphere was beyond tense.

So, my guess is, that to some Mexican students, the American flag might be perceived as a white reaction to their pride. It might seem like an insistance that Mexican-Americans "melt" into the white-American pot, rather than maintaining their heritage and ethnic pride. Taken to an extreme, they might feel the way some African-Americans feel down south, when they see the Confederate flag fly.

So, I do understand where they are coming from. But, I reject their premise. If they choose to make the American flag a symbol of nativism, red-neckism, and antagonism, they perpetuate the difference, and make it ever more difficult for the larger culture to accept them as Americans of Mexican heritage.

[Moksha]

Beer importers were making lots of money - especially German beers. The Corona Beer company in Mexico wanted some of these profits. So they embarked on a big marketing campaign to make Cinco de Mayo a new "party and drink beer" day.

Oktoberfest is more about drinking beer than eating Wienerschnitzel.

[prisonchaplain]

Two updates...a group of 200 Hispanics protested in CA, saying the American-flag wearers had indeed disrespected them on Cinco de Mayo. Disheartening. On the up side, both the school district and the high school principal have backed away from the censor of the students, with the latter actually issuing an apology. http://www.mhu.k12.ca.us/documents/Breaking%20News/News%20Conference_Ltr%20of%20Apology%202010%200507.pdf

[NeuroTypical]

Oh man - that's quite an apology there. "I apologize for the impact of this controversy on our school and our community."? ??!? BTW, the "I'm sorry all you people got upset"-style apology was also Justin Timberlake's apology when he ripped Janet Jackson's top of in front of everyone during the Superbowl. That's not an apology, that's an underhanded way of saying the upset people have the problem.

"I may have moved too quickly in drawing the line of when to take preventative action." This is not an apology - this is admission of the chance that perhaps he might have maybe been possibility wrong. Maybe. Big difference than, oh, say Mel Gibson's "I'm deeply ashamed of my actions and I want to change myself into something better" style apology after his drunken rant about Jews.

At the end of the day, this is about the restrictions on free speech schools can place on the little minds who are required by law to attend. It's about who is at fault when there's a problem. It's about who deserves tolerance, and who needs to just shut up and sit down and smile.

The right answer would have been either to send both the offenders and the offended home - or send neither of them home and let them work it out. That's what non-hypocritical tolerance looks like.

LM

Edited May 8, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Dravin]

Two updates...a group of 200 Hispanics protested in CA, saying the American-flag wearers had indeed disrespected them on Cinco de Mayo.

To which I say get a grip. They sound like Earl ranting 'bout how them 'Mexicans' not learning English is a disrespect to this great nation. Besides, can anything disrespect Mexico more than Taco Bell?

[Wingnut]

To which I say get a grip. They sound like Earl ranting 'bout how them 'Mexicans' not learning English is a disrespect to this great nation. Besides, can anything disrespect Mexico more than Taco Bell?

Clearly, you've never been to Del Taco.

(Said in my best Jack Sparrow voice.)

[Dravin]

Clearly, you've never been to Del Taco.

(Said in my best Jack Sparrow voice.)

Oh I have, I was thinking the commercials not the food... come to think of it I've never seen a Del Taco commercial. Hopefully I don't find myself the victim of a violent protest by admitting it but I rather like my green burrito from Del Taco, though a BRC from Pollo Loco trumps that.

Dang it, this talk of faux Mexican food has left me with a hankering for some Chile Relleno but I don't know anywhere to get a decent version 'round these parts.

[pam]

There's a restaurant I go to specifically for their Chile Rellenos. Really hard to find good ones.

Plus I'll take anything from El Pollo Loco any day.

[zippy_do46]

What happen to American? Do we not see? We do not have to be attacked. We do it ourselves... It is called "Divide and Conquer" In this country where people come to live free they start demanding more and more to take away our freedom. Pretty soon we will not be that country that all want to come.

[Dravin]

There's a restaurant I go to specifically for their Chile Rellenos. Really hard to find good ones.

Is it in the Sandy area? Might be worth the trip.

Plus I'll take anything from El Pollo Loco any day.

I love to take a BRC, crack it open, and liberally apply their hot avocado salsa (I think that is what they call it). Beats sour cream in my book.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Dravin

[prisonchaplain]

Oh man - that's quite an apology there. "I apologize for the impact of this controversy on our school and our community."? ??!? BTW, the "I'm sorry all you people got upset"-style apology was also Justin Timberlake's apology when he ripped Janet Jackson's top of in front of everyone during the Superbowl. That's not an apology, that's an underhanded way of saying the upset people have the problem.

"I may have moved too quickly in drawing the line of when to take preventative action." This is not an apology - this is admission of the chance that perhaps he might have maybe been possibility wrong. Maybe. Big difference than, oh, say Mel Gibson's "I'm deeply ashamed of my actions and I want to change myself into something better" style apology after his drunken rant about Jews.

Look at it from the pincipal's perspective. He probably had some intel. that Mexican students were upset with the t-shirt wearers. The flag-wearing students likely did know their choice of apparel would upset the celebrants, and he may have legitimately feared that fighting would break out. There was indeed a 200-person Hispanic demonstration, even after the fact. So, his admission that, in retrospect, his choice was poor was fair enough. Also, had he gone the other way, and fights had broke out, don't you know the parents of the brutalized victims would be suing the school for negligence?

[DigitalShadow]

I am all for freedom of speech and expression and while I personally tend to think "who cares?" that they were wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo, to put this in perspective, they are high school students who were most likely intentionally being disruptive, refused to stop when asked and were sent home. Seriously? This is news and worthy of getting outraged?