Righteousness Vs. Self-Righteousness / Humility Vs. False Humility

[Suzie]

What is your personal definition of being righteous and self- righteous? Humility and false humility? I think people have their own definitions of these terms and I would love to read your thoughts (no dictionary definitions) :)

How do you recognize the difference between them? Can a self-righteous person see they are being self-righteous? And most of all, how do you ensure that you are walking in the right path without becoming victim of self-righteousness?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. :)

[FunkyTown]

What is your personal definition of being righteous and self- righteous? Humility and false humility? I think people have their own definitions of these terms and I would love to read your thoughts (no dictionary definitions) :)

How do you recognize the difference between them? Can a self-righteous person see they are being self-righteous? And most of all, how do you ensure that you are walking in the right path without becoming victim of self-righteousness?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. :)

When I correct others, I am being righteous.

When others correct me, they are being self-righteous.

[NeuroTypical]

Whenever I think I'm being righteous or humble, and I can see myself kneeling before my Master and Judge hearing "well done thou good and faithful servant", I figure I'm doing it right.

When I see him saying "ooh - good zinger - I bet you think you nailed 'em with that one", then I know it's the other kind.

I have plenty of experience with both kinds. From what I can tell, real righteousness and humility both tend to happen when nobody notices, a heck of a lot more than in front of people. It's also a lot quieter than the other kind.

LM

[Traveler]

What is your personal definition of being righteous and self- righteous? Humility and false humility? I think people have their own definitions of these terms and I would love to read your thoughts (no dictionary definitions) :)

How do you recognize the difference between them? Can a self-righteous person see they are being self-righteous? And most of all, how do you ensure that you are walking in the right path without becoming victim of self-righteousness?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. :)

This is very simple in thought and almost impossible in practice.

The first step to righteousness is the discipline to sacrifice self for the benefit of others - This is in essence the definition of G-d's love and compassion.

The first step to evil is self indulgence

Therefore seeking the needs of others is the essence of righteousness

Seeking self is the essence of “self” righteousness.

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

Seeking self is the essence of “self” righteousness.

Well, sort of, but I have a somewhat different perspective. My buddy who went to BYU tells me they teach something called "enlightened self-interest", where it's perfectly fine to pursue what is in your own best interest - with an understanding that it pretty much involves doing what God wants.

I think righteousness could be defined as "Acting in accordance with God's desires", and self-righteousness would be "Acting primarily in accordance with your own desires". It's different from what Traveler said, because my happiness and eternal life is so high on God's list of priorities. Our missionary effort - heck - 33% of the mission of the entire church - is all about on letting people know how the Gospel makes things better for us. Many people come unto Christ because they want. They want salvation, peace, blessings, joy.

From where I'm standing, there ain't nothing wrong with that, and it ain't self-righteous to seek it out.

LM

[Moksha]

Can a self-righteous person see they are being self-righteous? And most of all, how do you ensure that you are walking in the right path without becoming victim of self-righteousness?

Not sure of the answer, but you have done an excellent job of framing the question.

[ruthiechan]

Let us go to the wonderful Merriam Webster Online Dictionary.

Self Righteous

convinced of one's own righteousness especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others : narrow-mindedly moralistic

Righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

2 a : morally right or justifiable <a righteous decision> b : arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality <righteous indignation>

3 slang : genuine, excellent

synonyms see moral

That about sums it up for me, especially narrow-mindedly moralistic. Self righteous people are the sort of people who are proud to be humble and think that those who are not righteous the way they are are doing it wrong.

Righteous people act within accordance to divine law. The two greatest commandments, love the Lord your God with all your heart might mind and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. The antipathy (opposite) of love is not hate (we're to hate sin, but love the sinner) but selfishness. "Selfishness. . .is the absence of love. " Henry B Erying LDS.org - Ensign Article - Our Perfect Example

Thus, the self righteous focus more on the self, less on the love, and consequently have a smaller capacity to love.

Edit: So, if you focus more on loving others, ie: the first two commandments, and less on the self, then you are avoiding the sin of self righteousness. :)

[GADBabaganoosh]

When someone goes up to the pulpit and tells a story, and its completely relevant to what they've learned and built their testimony, they are righteous.

When someone goes up the pulpit and tells a story, pauses, then just bears a quick testimony that has no relevancy to the story, they are being self righteous. (and attention seeking for that matter)

[GADBabaganoosh]

There is also the scripture where it says they become "a law unto themselves". the wicked, those who want things to be their way, and forget about God's way. Often these people fall away because they assume they know better than their God, or their divinely appointed priesthood leaders.

[Suzie]

One of the reasons that made me think of that question is that I think a lot of times in the Church we see this attitude quite often between ourselves. The proud look, the one that can never be corrected, the one who thinks they have all the answers (and they state it in a similar fashion), the one who behave like they are somewhat more special than the rest of the humans, and unfortunately the saddest part is that they don't see these things. That's why I wonder if is possible (at all) for a self righteous person to see these things on their own because in their mind, they are being Christ-like because they read and quote scripture. Maybe each one of us have these issues, how do we know?

[Seminarysnoozer]

What is your personal definition of being righteous and self- righteous? Humility and false humility? I think people have their own definitions of these terms and I would love to read your thoughts (no dictionary definitions) :)

How do you recognize the difference between them? Can a self-righteous person see they are being self-righteous? And most of all, how do you ensure that you are walking in the right path without becoming victim of self-righteousness?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. :)

I think it comes down to judging others. We can be righteous and even proclaim righteousness to others without judging. Unless one has been given authority to do so, telling someone that they are short of where they should be in comparison to what oneself has done is an obvious form of self righteousness but sometimes that can be said with very few words or even in the form of attitude.

Most of my family are not members of the Church and I am constantly reminded of the subtle comments that come across as being self righteous. When I look back at those comments, without intending it to be, they had a component of judging. I remember one example, my sister invited my family to go with them to a Padre's game on Sunday. My comment was something along the lines of "I couldn't break the sabbath by going to a sporting event on Sunday." Instead of saying something like, "Thanks for inviting us, I would love to go but I have other commitments that day, is there another day we can go?" ... I think if we try to avoid comments that entail some kind of judgment of others actions it doesn't come across as self righteous.

[zippy_do46]

There is very little bend in the iron rod.

[NeuroTypical]

On the subject of judging righteously - here is the required reading on the subject. I've carried Elder Oaks' talk around with me for a dozen years now. It really did sort a lot of things out for me.

[Casper]

I agree Suzie, if self righteousness cannot be recognised by each of us personally, we have no way of humbling ourselves. That makes me think of the times when our Heavenly Father needs to humble us. But the good side is when we see self-righteousness and non-humilty in others it can help us reflect on how we may be doing the same thing occasionally.

I think:

Being Righteous is being in-line with the Father's will, as discerned through current revelation/ spiritual prompting.

Self-Righteous is adhering to a view of right or wrong according to your own individual judgments (which are often limited or static).

Humility is comfort with oneself as you currently are (Carnal & Divine). It's about having Heavenly Father's perspective of you as your prime focus (Not caring what others think about you: Good or Bad)

Non-Humilty is self-degradation. It's hiding ones god-given power for fear of appearing prideful or self-aggrandizing.

[Shoot_The_Moon]

Remember, though, what Weiman said: "The greatest enemy of truth is man's tenacity in clinging to unjustified beliefs." You must always be ready to reinterpret your concepts when they fail to pass the test of newfound facts. You must dethrone your prejudices." Someone has said that prejudice is a vagrant opinion without visible means of support.

-Hugh B. Brown, BYU Devotional, 1958

“By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:20.)

“For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

“… Every tree is known by his own fruit.” (Luke 6:43–44.)

To be and to do are inseparable. As interdependent doctrines they reinforce and promote each other. Faith inspires one to pray, for example, and prayer in turn strengthens one’s faith.

The Savior often denounced those who did without being—calling them hypocrites: “This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me” (Mark 7:6). To do without to be is hypocrisy, or feigning to be what one is not—a pretender.

Conversely, to be without to do is void, as in “faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone” (James 2:17; emphasis added). Be without do really isn’t being—it is self-deception, believing oneself to be good merely because one’s intentions are good.

Do without be—hypocrisy—portrays a false image to others, while be without do portrays a false image to oneself.

-Lynn G. Robbins - April 2001 General Conference

The key is to understand that there are two kinds of judging: final judgments, which we are forbidden to make; and intermediate judgments, which we are directed to make, but upon righteous principles. ...

The Savior also commanded individuals to be judges, both of circumstances and of other people. Through the prophet Moses the Lord commanded Israel, "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour" (Leviticus 19:15).

On one occasion the Savior chided the people, "Judge ye not what is right?" (Luke 12:57). On another occasion he said, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24).

We must, of course, make judgments every day in the exercise of our moral agency, but we must be careful that our judgments of people are intermediate and not final. Thus, our Savior's teachings contain many commandments we cannot keep without making intermediate judgments of people: "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine" (Matthew 7:6); "Beware of false prophets. . . . Ye shall know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:15*16); and "Go ye out from among the wicked" (D&C 38:42).

- Dallin H Oaks - BYU Devotional - 1998

There are a couple different properties of self-righteousness that I can discern from the words above.

One property is that it involves the act of being "positively prejduice" towards one's own righteousness, and making final judgement upon one's own self.

Another property is the act of judging one's own "fruits" based solely on the the tree that it came from, not on the condition and quality of the fruit itself. In a similar manner, judging that the tree cannot possibly turn "wild" in the future, based on history or the current state of the fruit.

There are, however, false accusations of "self-righteousness".

Our young elders are models of young manhood. When they come home, some are criticized as being self-righteous for maintaining a decent appearance and keeping their hair trimmed neatly. I cannot understand why a returned missionary is considered self-righteous if he tries to live the standards and principles he has taught as a representative of the Lord to the people where he has served.

-James E. Faust - April 2000 General Conference

The wicked "take the truth to be hard", so sometimes they will attack the righteous with accusations of "self-righteousness", when they are just showing how hardened their hearts are.

You have to make sure that whatever judgements towards youself and other people are both intermediate, and based on righteous principles / good works, (and because of free agency, are "subject to change at any time without notice".)

[RescueMom]

I guess I'd see it as this..

A self-righteous person would see a heavily tatooed pierced person as not someone they'd want around them...because they weren't up to standards.

A truly righteous person would see a heavily tatooed pierced person as a lost sheep who they would like to help.

That's basically the way I think about things.

Or a self righteous person yells and attacks the woman entering the abortion clinic

The righteous person puts their arms around the woman and tries to love her enough to make her not have the abortion.

Or

the self righteous person kills the gay man because he is evil and sinning

the righteous person loves the gay man but doesn't tolerate the sin of homosexuality

[Shoot_The_Moon]

I guess I'd see it as this..

A self-righteous person would see a heavily tatooed pierced person as not someone they'd want around them...because they weren't up to standards.

...

If the "heavily tatooed pierced person" was actively streaming obsenities, frequently discussed obscene material, mistreating the people around them, using harmful substances around you, or other activities that we are commanded to avoid - would you still want to "be around them", or would judging that wasn't someone you wanted to be around while they were performing those actions be considered self-righteous?

Suppose they weren't pierced or tattooed yet, and was one of your children or a good friend who was a Member. Would you be self-righteous if you tried to start a discussion about the consequence of their actions and shared the counsel from the General Authorities (i.e. the Lord) on this topic before they went to get their first one? Would judging the action of getting a tattoo or extaneous piercing as against the will of the Lord be self-righteous?

Would they think you were being self-righteous for trying to talk them out of it, or because you were "better than them" for not having any body modifications?

...

Or a self-righteous person yells and attacks the woman entering the abortion clinic ... the self-righteous person kills the gay man because he is evil and sinning

...

I think whoever you are talking about may be confusing "righteousness" with "assault" and "hate crimes"...

...

The righteous person puts their arms around the woman and tries to love her enough to make her not have the abortion. ... the righteous person loves the gay man but doesn't tolerate the sin of homosexuality.

True. But, are they self-righteous for living up to their own standards, and trying to help other understand the words of the Lord and the promises given by him to help to ease the burdens of these forms of bondage or unrighteousness?

Given, the self-righteousness that is usually discussed has components of arrogance, hypocracy, and pride.

Here is one for you ... Does a man need to be perfect in living a particular commandment to teach, counsel, and share his understanding about that commandment with others? Is he being self-righteous if he is trying to teach others while struggling to be diligent in his obedience but still makes mistakes and repents?

I think if you are honestly trying to practice what you preach and not be "double-minded" as Elder Maxwell would put it, you are going a long way to fight against self-righteousness in yourself, and if you are humble enough to accept Gospel-centered correction from others no matter how hard it is, you will be much less likely to falsely accuse others of self-righteousness. (Even then, doesn't accepting true doctrine instruction from those who may be self-righteous fall under the whole "turn the other cheek" thing?)

Edited June 20, 2011 by Shoot_The_Moon

[RescueMom]

I do hang out with those people. And most of them know I will call the police if they get violent. Most of them won't curse in front of me..but sometimes they do. That doesn't mean I am not their friend or try to set a good example for them. It doesn't mean that I condone their actions, or accept their sins, but I can't turn my back on them.

As for if it was my children or member friend...I would gently remind them of the GA words, and hope they would do what the Lord wanted them to, but I would not stop loving or caring about them if they did modify their body. I sure wouldn't break my bonds of friendship or family over a tatoo or a peircing, I could never do that.

I believe that we are all sheep, even though some try to be wolves, deep down we are all sheep. And that some people need to be loved before they can be taught correct principles. People have to feel Gods love before they can change, truly in their hearts. I have found that I can not teach the rest of the gospel doctrine to a person who can't feel that love...for me the foundation of the Atonement must be there, then the rest can be added later. So I find it, for myself, to be better to be as gentle and as Christlike as possible with all of our brothers and sisters, and once that light of Christ has been reinstilled then..and only then can I move on to other doctrines.

OK the best way I can put this is sometimes it's better to tell the sinner God loves them, period, no strings attached instead of God wants you to do this this and this to get back to heaven. Most times the heavily tatooed body modified drug addict abortionist has forgotten that God loves them and that is what they need the most, right then, not to be told you have tatooes and curse like a sailor so you ain't worth my time. They have to be told in a gentle kind manner, with humility that God does love them, not only in word, actions and deeds but also in example. What's the worst that can happen? Well that happened two thousand years ago to our oldest brother, thats the worst that could happen. And he suffered what he suffered, died on the cross, for those heavily tatooed sinners as much as he did for me. He knew that his all of his Fathers children were wanted to come home, provided a way and that even one lost soul was one to many. I can't keep people from sinning, I can keep myself from sinning (do a pretty lousy job of it most times) I can't make people not do wrong, but that doesn't stop me from loving them and praying and helping them in ways that doesn't make them draw farther away from God, repentance and forgiveness.

When we teach in righteousness it is always with humilty and hope for the other person. When we teach in self righteousness it always with the thought that we are improving only ourselves, that it will glorifiy us instead of heal the other person.

[Dove]

Hello,

I appreciate this thread being picked up again after a year. I feel it's worth discussing more.

As I've read the most current posts some scriptures come to mind; Mosiah 3:2 and 5~ "And they had viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying; O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth and all things; who shall come down among the children of men." (5) "For behold, if the knowledge of the goodness of God at this time has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness, and your worthless and fallen state....."

Also, Moroni 7:12-14~ " Wherefore all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against Him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin and to do that which is evil continually. But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which invitheth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve Him, is inspired of God. Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil."

What I glean from these passages are a couple of answers to the question posed in this post. To me, humility is never forgetting/taking for granted my nothingness before God. That I am "less than the dust" comparatively. I like what was posted earlier; how important it is to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit in my daily decisions rather than my preconceived notions of what I think is right or what I would judge to be wrong. Daily sincere prayer and scripture study are wonderful tools in becoming more "in tune" with the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

Then, to me, self-righteousness would be giving myself one iota of credit for having done something "good" rather than giving the credit to Father-in-Heaven and the grace of the atonement. Self-righteousness is presuming that I did it of myself. It is a form of pride.

Humility is also never forgetting that I am never better than anyone else. That we are all children of God with the same infinite worth and value. I think of the words to a hymn; "Who am I to judge another, when I walk imperfectly?" I have often felt so judged by other so called "righteous" members. It tries my character to work on not judging in return out of hurt and subsequent anger.....It's letting go and acknowledging others divinely given agency and ability to choose for themselves who they want to be and how they want to act. It's having the faith that through the atonement I can choose to act differently and through grace, be different....

[Shoot_The_Moon]

I'm reading the book "Bonds That Make Us Free" by C. Terry Warner.

He describes self-righteousness as being a state of "counterfeit conscientiousness".

(Awesome book by the way - a great way to get a lot of insight into one's hidden self and helps one to see their own self-righteousness, self victimization, and see yourself as you really are - and it's all based on Gospel Principles. The author consulted with and got the thumbs-up from various scholars at BYU including Elder Oaks).

Edited June 22, 2011 by Shoot_The_Moon

[Shoot_The_Moon]

The most dangerous thing you can do is to take any one impulse of your own nature and set it up as the thing you ought to follow at all costs. There's not one of them which won't make us into devils if we set it up as an absolute guide. You might think love of humanity in general was safe, but it isn't. If you leave out justice you'll find yourself breaking agreements and faking evidence in trials "for the sake of humanity" and become in the end a cruel and treacherous man.

- C.S. Lewis - "Mere Christianity"

Another aspect can be the thought that one's "impulses" are righteous because one judges themselves to be righteous, and obeys them "at all cost".

Insofar as he has it, where does man suppose he gets his inborn sense of righteous indignation anyway? And if our sense of righteous indignation does not rest on some divine moral absolutes, why should anyone pay any attention to us? When he sees the imperfections all around him, the disciple of Jesus sees such imperfections as an invitation to help. But for those who see life, man, and the universe (without looking through the lens of the gospel), imperfection means rejection. When we hate ourselves, the defects of others loom especially large.

- Neal A. Maxwell - "Family Perspectives" - BYU Devotional 1974

I think this helps to show the line between righteousness and the disproportional "righteous indignation" that is common in self-righteousness, (similar to what RescueMom was describing).

Secularism often seizes upon a single, true principle and elevates it above its peer principles. This act of isolation does not make the principle seized any less true, but it strips that principle of its supporting principles. One can be incarcerated within the prison of one principle.

- Neal A. Maxwell - "Eternalism vs. Secularism" - Oct 1974 Ensign

I think that is a pretty good description - being "incarcerated" within the prison of one's own perceived righteousness, isolated from the humility, temperance, and service for others that must accompany a true disciple of Christ. Edited June 23, 2011 by Shoot_The_Moon

[Shoot_The_Moon]

Of such President Joseph F. Smith warned when he spoke of the "proud and self-vaunting ones, who read by the lamps of their own conceit; who interpret by rules of their own contriving; who have become a law unto themselves, and so pose as the sole judges of their own doings" (Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed. (1939), 381).

- M. Russell Ballard - "Beware of False Prophets and False Teachers" - Oct 1999 Gen. Conf.

[Shoot_The_Moon]

Suppose someone is gaining in "further light and knowledge", and is independently trying to make changes and trying to live up to a particular universal principle/precept/commandment. Is it being self-righteous if that person gains a testimony in that principle, and tries to explain their understanding of the principle to those who are members of their own family, (listing specific counsel given directly from Church GA's or other Gen. Aux. leaders), and expresses their belief that all members of their family should do likewise, without assigning any implied "judgement of righteousness" of themselves or others - focusing instead on the need to be obedient to the principle?

And, is it being self-righteous if they judge that any members of their family who are choosing to not obey the principle are making incorrect choices, while not making a "final judgement" that the person themselves is unrighteous?

Is it self-righteous when disagreements happen between husband and wife dealing with how to handle an aspect of the family, and one of them believes that the preferences and opinions of the others or the (non-Gospel related sources) is superceded by an applicable Gospel principle as they understand it, and is unwilling to agree with the philosophy / technique / process that does not appear to be in harmony or is insufficient according to Gospel standards?

Edited June 24, 2011 by Shoot_The_Moon