Double Standards Alert!!!

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Today, my wife and I had an appointment with the Bishop. She was not feeling good so I had to go to it alone.

The meeting was with the Bishop and the EQ President. The reasoning? We had asked for food assistance. The premise, to go over our budget we had to do up and now discuss.

First, I understand that when one receives assistance from the Church, one has to perform some sort of "community service". There is no problem there.

Yet, here is the issue.

As the Bishop discussed with me the finances and budget my wife and I had to quickly put together, his tone was very demanding and condescending. He kept insinuating that the Church does not help support a person's lifestyle, but helps them live. He then proceeded to advise me to go out and find a second job, or look for a better job than what I currently have at the moment (I recently started working at Walmart as a Front End Cashier).

He then asked why my wife and I are in the financial distress that we are in. I informed the Bishop that I had worked at a job for a year and a half. We started getting caught up on my bills, discussed how to start chopping down my child support, and even negotiated payment for my defaulted student loan. She went to school to become a Dental Assistant, and we were doing fairly well.

We started going back to Church, started paying an honest tithing, and life seemed good. That changed when I was initially laid off from work and spent three months trying to find work, was denied unemployment due to a false allegation of UIB fraud. With her working and bringing in the money, me trying to find work, we had to cut alot of our expenses.

We further fell behind in debt when my wife ended up having to take maternity leave because of her expecting our daughter. She contacted and worked with her credit card companies to inform them that she was going on maternity leave. They assured her that she would not have to worry about anything, especially since I was unemployed as well.

Megan was born, and I spent my time juggling job searching, schooling, and the care of my wife while she was recovering from her C-Section and my daughter. I had started receiving unemployment benefits at that time, but half of it automatically went to pay child support.

When she started going back to work, we started getting calls from collection agencies that stated we had fallen behind in her credit card payments and that we needed to pay more than what the minimum balance is.

Bringing this back to today's meeting with the Bishop, he stated that our finances are our responsibility (I agree, no disputing there). He then stated emphatically that my wife and I would not be able to go to the Temple to be sealed until my back child support is caught up. He then stated that one of the ways I could do that is take up a second job and put one paycheck from one job toward getting caught up on my child support.

He then stated that if I wanted to be re-ordained as a Melchesizedek priesthood holder, I have to be in good standing with the Church and be current in all my financial obligations.

I was biting my tongue wishing my wife were there because I really wanted to go off and say something to the Bishop. However, I kept my cool, was very polite, explained our situation, explained that we were doing good but now are struggling. We have hardly ever asked for the Church to help us out unless we necessarily needed to, and it was only one time for rental assistance, and a handful of times for food orders so that we could use up what we currently have.

On all of this he demanded that I and my wife go and work 20 hours within the next week at the local DI (We are in Marysville, and the DI is about 45 miles south of us). We are struggling just to make sure we have gas in the car for transportation to and from work. How are we to accomplish this when we can't afford a baby sitter for our daughter?

He also demanded that we give up the cable and internet since it is not a necessity. I do my schooling online and job searching online. At the mention of this, he suggested I could go to the library and worksource. I agreed, and then countered about how would we afford paying for someone to watch Megan? He said that was our responsibility.

It was here that I turned around and said to the Bishop that if we were to cut out the cable and tv, the money we would spend on those two things, we would have to pay for a babysitter (inevitably which will be a week and not a month, tripling the amount we would spend on these two things). He suggested we get rid of our cell phones and stick with the house phone.

I left utterly discouraged and frustrated. When I came home and talked with my wife about it, she got livid. She is frustrated as I am and we are at the point that we are completely done with the Church. We understand there are certain things, but to be told that we have to push ourselves beyond unreasonable expectations is appalling. There was no attempt by the Bishop at empathizing with our current predictament - just a simple if you want this then this is what you have got to do and there is no negotiating it. Do up another budget and let us discuss your plan at the next meeting.

I have left the Church once before, and am ready to leave again, and my wife is having the same sentiments - why bother trying when they do not understand exactly the predictiment we are in.

Namely, what are we to do when we are doing everything we can at the moment?

[Dravin]

Where is the double standard exactly?

[Jenamarie]

I have left the Church once before, and am ready to leave again, and my wife is having the same sentiments - why bother trying when they do not understand exactly the predictiment we are in.

What does it matter if the Bishop understands or not? I'm not saying you shouldn't feel frustrated with the situation, but why leave the church over it? How does the Bishop's misunderstanding (or your misunderstanding of your Bishop, since he's not here to give his side of things) have any baring on your relationship with the church? Has it changed who Christ is, what He did for you in the Garden and on the Cross, what He expects of you as His covenant disciple? Does it change the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon? Does it nullify the witness of the Holy Spirit I assume both you and your wife have recieved?

What purpose would be served by leaving the Lord's church because you don't like the way the Bishop is handling your situation?

[Bini]

I agree with above. Leaving the Church to spite the Bishop and teach him a lesson just isn't effective. You'll lose more than gain anything from this. But I also want to add that sometimes the people we seek help from are not always as tender and hold our hand as we might like. And on top of that, remember Bishops are human beings and sometimes don't execute as well as they possibly could have. Pray about it. Maybe when you're not so livid, consider making another appointment and have a heart-to-heart with the Bishop about how you felt after your last meeting? When you're under stress (you and your wife), things can be overbearing. The Bishop may have not realised you are not only financially overwhelmed but that this issue is also mentally/emotionally distressful.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Where is the double standard exactly?

Being counciled to not let anything interfere with the Family and then being counciled to take up a second job and sacrifice time with my family as well as my health and well-being. Being asked to do something that is outside of our budget and yet being told that we need to redo our budget so that we are not in the red, but the black.

Having someone speak down to me in a very condescending tone and then tell me that they are concerned for me and that they understand when they have not made any verbal or non-verbal communication toward showing any form of understanding.

[mightynancy]

I had a bishop once who was a little like that (different issue). He just told me how wrong I was, and didn't seem to give a rip that one of his ward members was really distressed and struggling. I just kept reminding myself that bishops only last a few years, and then maybe I'd have a priesthood leader with a more-compatible leadership style. The upside? The distress drove me to more prayer and more reliance on my own relationship with Christ.

As for the specifics in your OP, I agree wholeheartedly that you should turn off the cable TV. I see the point of keeping the internet if you're doing hours of schooling on there; the library here limits how much time you can use if someone else is waiting. Working at DI is better than no job at all, and perhaps it will lead to a contact that can get you a better-paying job.

I see church assistance a little like a 0-degree sleeping bag. It will keep you alive when it's 0 degrees out; it probably won't keep you comfortable in those conditions.

[Wingnut]

He then stated that if I wanted to be re-ordained as a Melchesizedek priesthood holder, I have to be in good standing with the Church and be current in all my financial obligations.

What do you mean "re-ordained?" Once you've been ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood, you have it unless you are excommunicated. You may be restricted from exercising it at times, but it isn't stripped from you unless you're no longer a member of the Church.

Being counciled to not let anything interfere with the Family and then being counciled to take up a second job and sacrifice time with my family as well as my health and well-being.

I don't think I've ever been counseled "to not let anything interfere with the family." I think that statement is slightly twisted because you seem to --understandably -- have blinders on right now.

[NeuroTypical]

Namely, what are we to do when we are doing everything we can at the moment?

From your post, the only thing that occurs to me, is to give up cable, and try really hard to not get offended.

FWIW, I had ten-buck-a-month dialup internet when I was out of work. And I wouldn't dream of having a cell phone if I was accepting financial/food aid from someone. Our current cell phones cost about ten bucks a month too.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Dravin]

Being counciled to not let anything interfere with the Family and then being counciled to take up a second job and sacrifice time with my family as well as my health and well-being.

That line of reasoning concludes that any job is interfering with your family.

By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families.

Being counseled that if you aren't making enough money to meet your family's obligations you may need to take a second job is not contrary to the teachings of the Church. Nor would be taking overtime, or working a full time job over a part time job. Or working any job at all.

Being asked to do something that is outside of our budget and yet being told that we need to redo our budget so that we are not in the red, but the black.

The fact that you conceeded that money could be saved on cable and the suggestion about a cell phone (yes I realize in some cases contracts make it worse to get out early then to pay them) suggest there is validity in telling you to do more crunching. Will it magically make you in the black? Probably not, but I imagine most people in first world countries don't quite realize what they can go without (myself included).

Did you bring up the fact that you can't afford the gas money to make it to DI and that you need something closer? It isn't clear if you did so or not. If you did and he still insisted he's being obstinant but that's still not a double standard.

Having someone speak down to me in a very condescending tone and then tell me that they are concerned for me and that they understand when they have not made any verbal or non-verbal communication toward showing any form of understanding.

Being condescending is also not a double standard, at least not on his part. Unless he was counseling you not to be condesending but reserving such for himself. Of course only the Bishop knows if he was genuinely being condescending or if it came out wrong. He's probably used to steeling himself for a non-nonsense tone because he probably puts up with a song and dance story quite often about how they need cable, or how we don't need to bother to cancel cable since it'll only be for this month. So his clear cut and non-nonsense may have been read by you as condsending. There is of course the possibly he was being condescending.

I suppose you could call him hypocritical but you aren't actually aware of if he's concerned about you and he failed to communicate that concern, or if he genuinely was lying through his teeth. I'm seeing legitimate cause (from your account) to complain about him hurting your feelings, less so for accusing him of engaging in a double standard.

[Last_Daze]

That line of reasoning concludes that any job is interfering with your family.

Any job does interfere with one's family. Then again, I find that not having money also interferes with one's family.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

What I meant by interfering with one's family is where I work full time at one job, take up a second part time job, and do my schooling and have no time with my family at all. That is what I meant by interefering with the family.

The Word of Wisdom does state that we are not to run faster than we can walk. I take that to mean that we are not to drive ourselves into the ground trying to gain a foothold.

It is not that I am against someone giving me good council, it is the manner in which it is given and how it is communicated.

No, I did not bring up the issue with Gas because I really did not feel comfortable with the way the whole meeting went about. It was not like all the other previous meetings we have had with other Bishops.

Regarding the Re-ordination, yes I was once ordained as a Melchesidek priesthood holder, however, it never got recorded (my grandfather had performed the ordination). Because it was not recorded, my church records show that I currently hold the office of a Priest and not the higher. So, yes, I would have to either have 2 witnesses write a statement and sign in front of their bishop (or a member of the bishopric) or be reordained.

I have made several attempts to speak with my grandmother who has the information but because of her ill health and my grandfather's ill health, I have requested my mother and sister to assist me in locating this information and have gotten nothing but resistance on their part.

As for the Job part, I was making $17.56 per hour working 40 hours a week. I am now working 32 hours and making 10.25 per hour. I also work 10 pm until 7am.

If I were to take up a second Job, I would not get any sleep, and one has to take in consideration that we would have to pay for someone to watch Megan. Since we would have to pay for Childcare, then it is an additional expense (which is about 1000.00 per month for day care expenses) and my taking up a second part time job would essentially be right where we are at financially if I do not take up a part time job.

I have looked at our budget, we are looking at what we are able to do. We have cut out alot of unnecessary expenses and are still seeking ways to bring in additional income. Where it stands, I am not going to find another job that will pay almost 18 an hour here in Washington state. I have looked.

Edited December 13, 2010 by SeattleTruthSeeker

[Dravin]

Any job does interfere with one's family. Then again, I find that not having money also interferes with one's family.

The point being we are certainly not counseled to not get jobs. There are time and health considerations to be considered of course, but "Bishop tells man seeking financial aid to find another/different job to increase cash inflow to meet obligations" doesn't exactly scream double standard.

Now we shouldn't take on excessive extra work just for the sake of toys or prestige* but the Bishop's counsel to cut out everything that isn't necessary (such as toys like cable) kinda shoots the line of thinking that such is his counsel in the foot.

* Though you usually see this directed at working mothers, but I think a case can be made about a man who chooses to work 90 hours weeks so he can have the big house that he doesn't need or the fancy car is probably putting said things ahead of family. That's a different ball game then 'I'm burdened by obligations I can't meet working 40 hours a week'.

[Wingnut]

Regarding the Re-ordination, yes I was once ordained as a Melchesidek priesthood holder, however, it never got recorded (my grandfather had performed the ordination). Because it was not recorded, my church records show that I currently hold the office of a Priest and not the higher. So, yes, I would have to either have 2 witnesses write a statement and sign in front of their bishop (or a member of the bishopric) or be reordained.

I have made several attempts to speak with my grandmother who has the information but because of her ill health and my grandfather's ill health, I have requested my mother and sister to assist me in locating this information and have gotten nothing but resistance on their part.

That makes sense then. Thanks for clarifying.

If I were to take up a second Job, I would not get any sleep,

When my mom was pregnant with me (I'm the oldest), she worked a part-time job at a credit union. My dad attended school nearly full-time. He also worked two full-time jobs and taught Seminary. It's not fun or easy, but it's doable.

and one has to take in consideration that we would have to pay for someone to watch Megan. Since we would have to pay for Childcare, then it is an additional expense (which is about 1000.00 per month for day care expenses) and my taking up a second part time job would essentially be right where we are at financially if I do not take up a part time job.

I see a big discrepancy here. Isn't there anyone (or multiple anyones) in your ward who would be willing to help out in this situation? I wouldn't expect anyone to do it for free -- I wouldn't do it for free -- but certainly there must be a trusted friend who might be willing to care for your daughter during the day for a reduced rate, considering your circumstances and the very reason that you are seeking care for her. Do you have family in the area?

Speaking of family, have you sought financial (or other circumstantial) assistance from them before going to the Church?

[Elphaba]

I don't get the impression you're asking for help you don't genuinely need, and if that's the case, you may just have to let your bishop not like it. I believe you that he's being condescending, and that's unfortunate, but what's really important is that you get the help you need to take care of Megan.

If you can't find a job that provides a profit after daycare costs, then it's not worth it. If you can't afford to pay for a quality daycare, then it's not worth it. If you can't afford the gas to go work at the DI, then it's not worth it. (I was confused about that--is it for pay or to volunteer?).

Because of illness I've been in the position where I desperately needed help, and I learned to steel myself for any kind of treatment to get that help. Most of the time it was given graciously, other times it wasn't. A few times it was outright and needless humiliation. Ultimately, I realized what was important was the help itself, not the people who gave it. But I admit, having to subject myself to the whims of others has taken its toll on me.

It's very difficult for people to comprehend our struggles, and IMO, some bishops are better at it than others. You probably can't prove anything to him right now, but in the long run you can by taking only the help you need, and working your butt off to ensure you don't take anymore. However, based on your past posts as well as visits to your blog, I don't get the impression you'd ever do otherwise.

I feel for you. Putting a little baby in daycare is such a scary thing to do. Frankly, I'd probably let some bills slide before I'd do that. That won't be a popular suggestion, but there it is.

Have you applied for government assistance? If you're hungry, you may qualify for emergency food stamps. As far as I'm concerned, there's no shame in it if you truly need it. If you feel differently, so be it, but given you have a little baby to take care of, you need to do whatever it takes.

Good luck.

Elphaba

Edited December 13, 2010 by Elphaba

[Maureen]

SeattleTS, I think your thread title is getting in the way of some posters truly understanding your predicament. I can see where you're coming from. You truly need help and even a little understanding and you're assuming that a church leader would show that but in your case he is not. You're surprised and disappointed in his lack of empathy. You know your situation the best. You know how many hours are in the day that you can legitimately work, study and care for your family without going crazy or becoming ill.

If your frustration with church leaders is going to make you miserable then seek help through government means. We usually don't expect government help to be caring, so go through the motions in getting that extra help and then if somehow you are offered help by the church in a kind way then all the better. But for now don't expect kindness just get the help you need.

M.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

SeattleTS, I think your thread title is getting in the way of some posters truly understanding your predicament. I can see where you're coming from. You truly need help and even a little understanding and you're assuming that a church leader would show that but in your case he is not. You're surprised and disappointed in his lack of empathy. You know your situation the best. You know how many hours are in the day that you can legitimately work, study and care for your family without going crazy or becoming ill.

If your frustration with church leaders is going to make you miserable then seek help through government means. We usually don't expect government help to be caring, so go through the motions in getting that extra help and then if somehow you are offered help by the church in a kind way then all the better. But for now don't expect kindness just get the help you need.

M.

Maureen,

I have actually applied for Food Assistance. The only thing we qualify for is Medical for my stepson and daughter.

I jokingly told my wife that she could quit her job and then we would get all the help we can get and she could be home with our daughter.

And I agree, the title of this thread is throwing people off. Here is how I perceive the double standard.

Let us say that I take on a second job. Hardly home with my wife and kids. Bishop calls me in and counsel's me that working too much is taking away time for me to participate in my role and duty as a father. That is where the double standard is. One of those catch 22 kind of things. Either I work two jobs and miss out on Church activities, family activities and leave my wife to work a full time job and take care of all the household chores and not spend any time with her, or have only one job and spend time with her and have the ability to attend church services so that I can have those blessings.

[Guest]

Hi Seattle...

Finances... man. It's a tough thing. I suck at it as well.

The really good thing that happened to me though that taught me very important lessons about finances is - I lived in the Philippines. My mother comes from a small fishing village. I have told people about it here, I think.

True story: My great-uncle and I went out fishing very early in the morning. Now, let me explain this a bit more - in that fishing village, a lot of the fishermen are dirt poor - literally. They would go out before sunrise to fish. If they come home with a fish, they eat for the day. If they don't catch anything, they starve that day. In a society this poor, women drop babies almost every year... they don't know any better.

Anyway, I was out fishing with my great-uncle (my mom's family is poor but not dirt poor - my mom's sister and her husband work at the one and only significant business in town - an engineering firm that builds roads and such). Anyway, my great uncle and I came home without a fish that day. On our way home, we met a fisherman who was carrying 3 good-sized fish. He saw our empty fishing poles and invited us both to his house for lunch. Of course we said yes. We went to this guy's house and I tell you, the clothes I'm wearing and my nike shoes probably cost more than his little bamboo house. The guy had small kids running around and he laid the 3 fish on the table and invited us to eat. That was a reality-slap on my face. 3 fish, a bowl of rice, for his entire family plus my great-uncle and me... and I have a very strong feeling that that's gonna be all that they're having that day. And the guy and his family were happy people - they were smiling, laughing, and acting like they were rich people - didn't even think twice about sharing his meal with us (especially me who, obviously, was relatively well-off with my nike shoes and all).

Whenever I get into a financial bind, I think of those people. I look at my bills and start thinking - ok, do I REALLY need this. I can come up with a million reasons on why I need my TV. I can come up with a million reasons on why I need my cellphone. Then I think of that guy and how happy he was with his 3 fish... and every reason on the planet goes out the window.

I'm a mother of 2 little boys, with a full-time job, and going to college for 6 credits a semester. So, I know what you mean about not having time for anything else. Family always come first - before church even. But sometimes, we take on extra work that take us away from the family BECAUSE family come first. I'll do anything to make sure my children will not starve. But, it's a balancing act. Do I take on an extra job to pay the credit card bill or spend 12 extra hours of the week being with the famly and hope the collectors don't take me to court? That kind of thing.

We can't tell you how to run your household - how you decide to answer those questions. And I don't think your bishop should tell you how to run your household either. He can offer advice, give you options... the word that BUGS me about your OP is the word DEMAND. Your bishop shouldn't DEMAND anything. Yes, you should be financially black. But, the way you are describing your bishop is - he is demanding that you stay in the black OR ELSE... then holding Milchezedek priesthood like a carrot. That leaves a sour taste in my mouth...

But, don't leave the church because of it. We can choose to be offended, and we can choose NOT to be offended. I would take the 2nd route... choose NOT to be offended and just love your bishop like the fallible human that he is...

Edited December 13, 2010 by anatess

[Just_A_Guy]

STS, I would be flabbergasted to find out that an LDS bishop had called someone on the carpet for not spending enough time with his family when he was trying to dig out of a financial mess like the one you describe.

A few other observations:

1. You mentioned in your OP that your bishop won't let you get your ordination while you're not meeting your financial obligations. There may have been a miscommunication there--this may be true with regard to domestic obligations like child support; but at least as a matter of church policy it does not apply with regard to your consumer debts. I've handled bankruptcy cases for a number of LDS families, and none of them caught any ecclesiastical grief over their decision. In fact, if you're anticipating filing for bankruptcy, then the best thing you can do right now is stop paying on your credit card bills. It will free up the cash flow for the stuff you really need.

2. Twenty hours at the DI at minimum wage ($8.67) would be $173.40. In all likelihood, that's a bargain for the amount of groceries you'll get via the bishop's storehouse.

3. If your wife recently gave birth, I don't see why she and your kids wouldn't qualify for WIC. If you applied and were denied, I'd raise some heck at the state offices until they changed their mind.

4. I don't know how much your wife's making. But re the second job--if you can't make ends meet any other way, you're just going to have to suck it up and do it. That just goes with the territory of being an LDS male--you've got to make it work, period.

[Whynot]

Although not a member, my wife is, and we've been to our Bishops over the years and my experience has always been a good one. Reading your post it seems you are frustrated with the lack of compassion shown. Maybe both of you were having a less than perfect day. Bishops change every few years, but that doesn't help how you feel right now. It's a matter of how you handle the matter in your heart. The Bishop isn't the Lord, although we all are in dire need to be more like Him. Jesus had compassion when others didn't, and endured criticism of others that was completely unjust and not just a lop-sided opinion.

One of the apostles said if a man will not work, neither let him eat. That's a matter of the will, not the job market. That you are trying is your part, that you accept a job offered is also good and shows willingness to make due with where you were able to get hired. I can understand your points.

If you really are troubled over this, maybe you could get a second opinion and express your concern to the high councelman or stake president if the matter is weighing on your heart and making things harder for your family?

Just a couple of thoughts. Hang in there. Rather than being anxious about the matter it's always good to take it to the Lord in prayer. He wants to hear from us all the time.

[Wingnut]

If you really are troubled over this, maybe you could get a second opinion and express your concern to the high councelman or stake president if the matter is weighing on your heart and making things harder for your family?

A high councilman has no keys nor right to revelation in a matter such as this.

[MorningStar]

Hi STS,

I'm really sorry to hear about the financial struggle you're going through, but please don't leave the church over your bishop's reaction. If he is giving you attitude, I think it has to do with you being behind in child support payments. Maybe he feels like you could have given up luxuries to make those? His line of thinking is probably, "x amount of money spent on cable could have gone towards food for his children." He has probably heard story after story about struggling single mothers whose ex-husbands don't support the children. For instance, my good friend whose ex-husband finds ways to buy himself the latest game consoles and a rottweiler while claiming he doesn't have money to help with the kids.

If you're not locked in a contract, you really should consider switching to cheaper Internet and getting rid of cable. Everything you can cut back on counts. We are also struggling and live in a 2 bedroom apartment with 4 kids. We haven't had cable for over 8 years and I couldn't ask the church to use money I consider sacred (fast offerings) to support me in any luxury. We don't have cell phones either, but my husband's work gives him one.

I have Internet because I make a little extra money writing. I would lose more money if I were to get rid of it. If that weren't so, I wouldn't be justified in keeping it.

Is there another option for working? Our bishop has helped us a few times, stating that my husband and I have done so much to serve the ward as it is. In the past in other wards, we put in volunteer hours at DI. When my husband was working many hours of overtime, that wasn't asked of us. Maybe ask your bishop if you can help out at the cannery in Mukilteo instead or cleaning the church on a regular basis. You could bring your baby with you to clean.

Is your wife working now? If not, maybe she can make a little extra money just watching older children before and after school who need a place while waiting for their parents to get home from work? I've done stuff like that at times so I could still be with my kids. Now that my oldest is babysitting age, I have started teaching piano. Are either of you skilled enough to teach someone or tutor a student?

My husband works really hard and was going to take some side work, but I can actually make more than him per hour, leaving him more time with the kids and time together. I know that is a big concern. My husband was working overtime and going to school for a while. It was pretty rough.

Sometimes it does take pushing yourself to the absolute limit and it is miserable, but keep praying and see what you can come up with. If a member of my ward makes a sacrifice to pay a fast offering, how could I take the benefits from that in good conscience while I have any extras in life? What the bishop is saying is that the church is here to sustain life, not to give you extras. I know, it's depressing to give up the things you enjoy. I got rid of my cell phone and cable, but I don't miss either of them now.

[MorningStar]

Also, I have never heard of a bishop getting on a father's case for working too much and too hard. In fact, they are understanding when a man needs to turn down a calling due to his situation.

[JudoMinja]

While I understand your frustration, I get the impression that your heart is still in need of softening. When we hit hard times we should be greatful for all the help we can get and for all that we have. We should be willing to give up EVERYTHING that is not necessary in order to make ends meet.

I work 40 hours a week making $7.50 an hour. This is a position at a school, so my paycheck is smaller than it should be so that I will still receive a paycheck during the summer months. My pay comes out to about $850 a month. I live in a two-bedroom apartment with my two-year old son- $370 rent (includes water). My electric is about $50 a month. I am paying my parents for their car $200 a month, because I could not afford any payment plans I would get going through a dealership. Gas for use of that car costs me about $100 a month. I have a home phone and dial-up internet (full-time student at an online university) that costs me about $25 a month. I also have a pay-as-you-go cell phone for texting and emergencies which costs me about $10 a month. I receive child-care assistance from my local workforce center, so instead of child care costing me $400 a month, I am paying $100 a month for my son to be in day care while I work. I pay my tithing- $85 a month. I qualify for WIC, $125 a month in food stamps, and medical coverage from the government. This leaves me no money whatsoever for diapers, bathroom essentials, car repairs, etc, yet I still manage to make ends meet.

Bring your bills as low as you possibly can. Cut out everything you don't need, and even some things you may think you do need but can live without. It may be possible for you to get childcare assitance even if you do not qualify for food stamps or welfare. Locate your local workforce commission and see if they can help. Also, your WIC office and your welfare office should have information on additional resources you may be able to use for assistance.

It may seem that the bishop is being harsh to you, but church assistance is designed to be a last resort to keep us alive in our times of desperate need. We are expected to have exhausted all other options for help before turning to the church. The counsel to redo your budget and cut out the things you don't need is part of the package. Often, you will be given the food you need to survive and nothing else, but if you show that you are making an honest effort to cut expenses and are still struggling, the church may offer additional help paying for a bill.

I received assistance from the chuch for a few months and was told the same things your bishop told you. It may seem like he has a lack of compassion, but he is only making sure church funds are spent wisely. He has to know exactly where your finances are going before he can help pay for anything, because church money is not to support cable or any other extras.

It is hard to be in a tight spot financially. I know. When I was receiving assistance from the church, I was ready to be homeless. When things are hard, it is not time to get angry and bite the hand that feeds us. It is time to soften our hearts and seek humility. It is time to be greatful for the things we have. It is time to recognize that we are in need of help, that we are caught in a situation beyond our control, and to reach out for assistance, willing to sacrifice all that we have in order to keep what is most important to us- family.

[prisonchaplain]

Every day I am thankful for my circumstances. Sometimes I wish we had more, so we could do more. You remind us of the tough situations that many in our families and our churches and wards are in. I know an architect who is doing low-wage security right now (housing bust busted his field). My brother had to take a job in a new field at a one-third paycut. Fortunately, he likes the new job, and may make those wages up in longevity.

I suppose bishops have to be tough-minded, and feel obligated to straighten people out who come for help. LDS culture seems very steeped in "rugged individualism." It's mostly good, but can be humiliating when help actually is needed.

My heart goes out to you, and I pray sincerely that you get the support you need, so that down the road, you can give the support others need.

[bert10]

Some bishops are over zealous with the Lord's Storehouse. Some act as if it is their store house. The Store house of the Lord is meant to help us out of bad situations.

However, you cannot change the Bishop nor the situation that you are in without the help of GOD.

Fears, anger, feelings of resentment etc. are negatives and do rob us of the power of GOD our lives. The best way that I know to banish fears, anger, resentment etc is coming to the sure knowledge that all things work together for the good of them that love God [Romans] also fear and love are mutually exclusive.

And for keeping my thoughts centered on GOD and to remind GOD constantly of my situation.....what we can do is to praise and thank GOD for the problems all the day long if one has to. Most only thank GOD for the the good things in their lives. Few do realize that GOD in the end is the author of all our experiences whether they are comfortable or uncomfortable life experiences. Even when we are the author of our own uncomfortable life experiences God still need to permit it and how much of it we can bear. Every time your situation comes to mind...say and mean it...for example...Thank You GOD for my car being almost out of gas. Or thank You GOD for this red light if we are driving and in a hurry. And you can be sure if we are in a hurry we are going to hit every red light there is out there. At least it seems so to me on some days. And if your thoughts turns to money...okay then say...Thank you Lord for allowing me to be without money at this time. When you pay your bills ...say thank You Lord for this bill. It hurts my budget but I thank you all the same. If you do this with all things...your thoughts will begin to quiet down,,,and you will begin feel a contact with GOD, and even come to feel the hand of GOD in all things in your life. Then you can begin to praise GOD between, your thoughts with your problem.

Sooner or later GOD will act on those praises you thanking Him. How He will act is the fun. In a formal prayer we are asking GOD for specific things even though it is not what we really need. And also we expect GOD to deliver on our prayer according to how we think it should be done.

In praising and thanking GOD......GOD acts according to our GOOD in his way. The way He shall provide for us...most likely is not the way we expect it..but be sure about this...something will happen...and this is the fun part.

The more things go wrong with us...the more we can use those things to center our thoughts and hearts on GOD. Power always flow thru us, when Contact is made with GOD.

bert10

Today, my wife and I had an appointment with the Bishop. She was not feeling good so I had to go to it alone.

The meeting was with the Bishop and the EQ President. The reasoning? We had asked for food assistance. The premise, to go over our budget we had to do up and now discuss.

First, I understand that when one receives assistance from the Church, one has to perform some sort of "community service". There is no problem there.

Yet, here is the issue.

As the Bishop discussed with me the finances and budget my wife and I had to quickly put together, his tone was very demanding and condescending. He kept insinuating that the Church does not help support a person's lifestyle, but helps them live. He then proceeded to advise me to go out and find a second job, or look for a better job than what I currently have at the moment (I recently started working at Walmart as a Front End Cashier).

He then asked why my wife and I are in the financial distress that we are in. I informed the Bishop that I had worked at a job for a year and a half. We started getting caught up on my bills, discussed how to start chopping down my child support, and even negotiated payment for my defaulted student loan. She went to school to become a Dental Assistant, and we were doing fairly well.

We started going back to Church, started paying an honest tithing, and life seemed good. That changed when I was initially laid off from work and spent three months trying to find work, was denied unemployment due to a false allegation of UIB fraud. With her working and bringing in the money, me trying to find work, we had to cut alot of our expenses.

We further fell behind in debt when my wife ended up having to take maternity leave because of her expecting our daughter. She contacted and worked with her credit card companies to inform them that she was going on maternity leave. They assured her that she would not have to worry about anything, especially since I was unemployed as well.

Megan was born, and I spent my time juggling job searching, schooling, and the care of my wife while she was recovering from her C-Section and my daughter. I had started receiving unemployment benefits at that time, but half of it automatically went to pay child support.

When she started going back to work, we started getting calls from collection agencies that stated we had fallen behind in her credit card payments and that we needed to pay more than what the minimum balance is.

Bringing this back to today's meeting with the Bishop, he stated that our finances are our responsibility (I agree, no disputing there). He then stated emphatically that my wife and I would not be able to go to the Temple to be sealed until my back child support is caught up. He then stated that one of the ways I could do that is take up a second job and put one paycheck from one job toward getting caught up on my child support.

He then stated that if I wanted to be re-ordained as a Melchesizedek priesthood holder, I have to be in good standing with the Church and be current in all my financial obligations.

I was biting my tongue wishing my wife were there because I really wanted to go off and say something to the Bishop. However, I kept my cool, was very polite, explained our situation, explained that we were doing good but now are struggling. We have hardly ever asked for the Church to help us out unless we necessarily needed to, and it was only one time for rental assistance, and a handful of times for food orders so that we could use up what we currently have.

On all of this he demanded that I and my wife go and work 20 hours within the next week at the local DI (We are in Marysville, and the DI is about 45 miles south of us). We are struggling just to make sure we have gas in the car for transportation to and from work. How are we to accomplish this when we can't afford a baby sitter for our daughter?

He also demanded that we give up the cable and internet since it is not a necessity. I do my schooling online and job searching online. At the mention of this, he suggested I could go to the library and worksource. I agreed, and then countered about how would we afford paying for someone to watch Megan? He said that was our responsibility.

It was here that I turned around and said to the Bishop that if we were to cut out the cable and tv, the money we would spend on those two things, we would have to pay for a babysitter (inevitably which will be a week and not a month, tripling the amount we would spend on these two things). He suggested we get rid of our cell phones and stick with the house phone.

I left utterly discouraged and frustrated. When I came home and talked with my wife about it, she got livid. She is frustrated as I am and we are at the point that we are completely done with the Church. We understand there are certain things, but to be told that we have to push ourselves beyond unreasonable expectations is appalling. There was no attempt by the Bishop at empathizing with our current predictament - just a simple if you want this then this is what you have got to do and there is no negotiating it. Do up another budget and let us discuss your plan at the next meeting.

I have left the Church once before, and am ready to leave again, and my wife is having the same sentiments - why bother trying when they do not understand exactly the predictiment we are in.

Namely, what are we to do when we are doing everything we can at the moment?