The Dumbing Down of America

[prophetofdoom]

This is an article I read recently that shows that children are becoming less proficient at history.

History-Test Scores Show Scant Progress - WSJ.com

"No Child Left Behind" has had many consequences. It appears that there is a lack of emphasis on history and that is dangerous in my opinion. I believe an understanding of history is crucial for a Republic like the United States. Kids need to be brought up to understand the history of the nation... the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. A people cannot defend liberty if they are not educated on the principles and history behind it.

[HoosierGuy]

This is an article I read recently that shows that children are becoming less proficient at history.

History-Test Scores Show Scant Progress - WSJ.com

"No Child Left Behind" has had many consequences. It appears that there is a lack of emphasis on history and that is dangerous in my opinion. I believe an understanding of history is crucial for a Republic like the United States.

Democratic Republic.

[mordorbund]

That's to be expected. Every generation gets more and more history to learn.

[FunkyTown]

Democratic Republic.

Hahah. Touche. Well played, Hoosier. Well played.

[rubondfan2]

Democratic Republic.

Disagree with you on that one... and so would most Constitutional scholars. We are a Republic... at least we're supposed to be. That is what the Founders intended when they created the Constitution.

You just helped to emphasize ProphetofDoom's point all the more... you've bought into the education spoon fed to us since birth... that we are a Democracy, when in fact we are supposed to be a Republic. So, we somehow are supposed to feel more secure and justified by saying that we are a "Democratic Republic". (See Germany's history, for an example of a true Democratic Republic.)

This may be what we practice in today's political landscape... but if that is the case, it just goes to the point that our Republic is being destroyed. And unfortunately, the vast majority of American's don't see it nor understand it.

Rather than get into a tit for tat over terminology as a show of some kind of one-up-man-ship, how about commenting on the greater point in the OP's message? That of the opinion that we are experiencing a systematic destruction of our form of government through a diminished emphasis on teaching and learning history.

[Blackmarch]

This is an article I read recently that shows that children are becoming less proficient at history.

History-Test Scores Show Scant Progress - WSJ.com

"No Child Left Behind" has had many consequences. It appears that there is a lack of emphasis on history and that is dangerous in my opinion. I believe an understanding of history is crucial for a Republic like the United States. Kids need to be brought up to understand the history of the nation... the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. A people cannot defend liberty if they are not educated on the principles and history behind it.

I wonder how much of that gap is filled in with social rumor, myth and legend as they age?

[dauser]

Government union schooling installations keep doing exactly what they are designed to do. .

The glory of God is intelligence and that cannot be allowed.

[FunkyTown]

James Madison would disagree with you rubondfan. You don't want to go tit for tat on terminology. I get that. But James "The Father of the Constitution" Madison in his writings discussed the purpose of a Democratic Republic.

Actually, I think this might have to do with a difference in terminology. You don't want to use the term 'Democracy' because a true democracy is a tyranny of the majority, correct? And that a Constitutional Republic is set up as a kind of oligarchy to help prevent that?

You raise a good point. However, while 'One Man - One Vote' isn't the US, meaning it can't be a True Democracy, it does follow the democratic process. And thus, it is a Democratic Republic. You can read Madison's papers on this very thing, side by side with his cautionary tales on the tyranny of the majority.

I respect what you're saying, Rubond. It's important to note that the US is not a true Democracy - It shouldn't be. But calling it a Democratic Republic is not a misnomer. It's completely correct, unless you put the emphasis on 'Democratic', in which case it's completely incorrect. On the other hand, if you term it a pure Republic, that isn't correct either. Plato's Republic is pretty specific on that.

Basically: There are checks and balances to the elected representatives. Everything from the Supreme Court to the Constitution. Because of this, it isn't a true Republic. And shouldn't be.

**************

On topic, however: I think it's important to note that knowledge of history is vital. If you don't understand the historical problems such as:

Tyranny of the majority

Spectral evidence

The divide of Rich and Poor

An oligarchy above the law

Habeus Corpus(Happy Magna Carta day for those who missed on the 11th).

If you don't understand those issues, it's impossible to make intelligent decisions within the republic. Education is vital.

Disagree with you on that one... and so would most Constitutional scholars. We are a Republic... at least we're supposed to be. That is what the Founders intended when they created the Constitution.

You just helped to emphasize ProphetofDoom's point all the more... you've bought into the education spoon fed to us since birth... that we are a Democracy, when in fact we are supposed to be a Republic. So, we somehow are supposed to feel more secure and justified by saying that we are a "Democratic Republic". (See Germany's history, for an example of a true Democratic Republic.)

This may be what we practice in today's political landscape... but if that is the case, it just goes to the point that our Republic is being destroyed. And unfortunately, the vast majority of American's don't see it nor understand it.

Rather than get into a tit for tat over terminology as a show of some kind of one-up-man-ship, how about commenting on the greater point in the OP's message? That of the opinion that we are experiencing a systematic destruction of our form of government through a diminished emphasis on teaching and learning history.

[slamjet]

An there I tout I be edumakated.

[Dravin]

An there I tout I be edumakated.

If you want to be cool and smart you should be 1337 like the Founding Fathers:

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Though in a pinch you can go with text speak:

wen n d corS of hUmN events, it becomes neceSrE 4 1 ppl 2 dissolve d political bands whch hav coNectd dem w anothr, & 2 assume Amng d pwrs of d erth, d separ8 & = statN 2 whch d Laws of natuR & of Naturs God entitle them, a decent rSpect 2 d opinions of mankind requires dat dey shud declare d cazes whch impel dem 2 d separ8ion.

[HoosierGuy]

What's really scary are stories of companies, like we talked on this forum about a few months ago, who want to write part of history text books and put in how wonderful the coal companies etc... are to society. If you are going to put that in text books then make sure you include how those companies make billions while over charging the American consumer every month.

To get back on focus - I'm a lover of history. I heard a professor say the founding fathers did not write the Constitution using common sense. Common sense would tell us we could find a good person to make king. Common sense would tell you we could make an official church/region for the U.S. but it would never force itself on any person.

The founders knew common sense would lead us all wrong. Religion has in the past been used to control people in bad ways. Kings have gone bad and been horrible. They looked at history and said - never again.

[FunkyTown]

What's really scary are stories of companies, like we talked on this forum about a few months ago, who want to write part of history text books and put in how wonderful the coal companies etc... are to society. If you are going to put that in text books then make sure you include how those companies make billions while over charging the American consumer every month.

I call shenanigans, Hoosier. I know of no history textbooks that glorified the coal companies. I will accept I am incorrect, however, if you can quote source.

Which textbook glorifies the coal companies?

[trubludru]

What's really scary are stories of companies, like we talked on this forum about a few months ago, who want to write part of history text books and put in how wonderful the coal companies etc... are to society. If you are going to put that in text books then make sure you include how those companies make billions while over charging the American consumer every month.

To get back on focus - I'm a lover of history. I heard a professor say the founding fathers did not write the Constitution using common sense. Common sense would tell us we could find a good person to make king. Common sense would tell you we could make an official church/region for the U.S. but it would never force itself on any person.

The founders knew common sense would lead us all wrong. Religion has in the past been used to control people in bad ways. Kings have gone bad and been horrible. They looked at history and said - never again.

I guess that depends on what you think "common sense" is. To me common sense is the opposite of what you seem to be putting forth. Does it make sense to entrust a single individual or institution with totalitarian powers and not expect things to go bad at some point? The desire to have a king/dictator I would argue would be an emotional response rather than a logical/common sense approach. We want to look up to somebody, to have a hero we can rely on, it makes us feel good. Look at about any dictator in history, they all tend to build up a cult of personality where they portray themselves as infallible, strong, and able to solve all the problems of the people. And oh wouldn't it be nice if we could just put somebody in charge that would solve all our problems and "make the trains run on time".

Common sense I would argue is to see the underlying truths of life and make responible choices based on those truths. Things like: "don't put all your eggs in one basket", "life isn't fair", and all individuals have inalienable rights like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" (not the guarantee of happiness).

Edited June 20, 2011 by trubludru

[HoosierGuy]

I call shenanigans, Hoosier. I know of no history textbooks that glorified the coal companies. I will accept I am incorrect, however, if you can quote source.

Which textbook glorifies the coal companies?

There was a discussion on this board a few months ago about energy companies out west, maybe Utah. They were wanting to write or strongly influence what was in school history books. They were going to push how wonderful the energy business has been to the U.S.

[Just_A_Guy]

Please find it.

[Traveler]

I believe that removing the effects of religion in history is even a greater problem. But the real problem is that the US education has also fallen behind in math and sciences. In fact I am not sure I know what our kids are excelling in no days - maybe the arts? Especially if we count video games and TV with arts?

The Traveler

[HoosierGuy]

Please find it.

Courtesy of the Utah Moms for Clean Air!

Dirty Coal finds a friend in Scholastic Books? | Utah Moms for Clean Air

"Teachers are told that the curriculum aligns with national standards because it teaches children the advantages and disadvantages of different types of energy. But while the lessons do extol the advantages of coal, they fail to mention a single disadvantage."

And I can't find it using the search even though it was discussed on this forum.

[pam]

There was a discussion on this board a few months ago about energy companies out west, maybe Utah. They were wanting to write or strongly influence what was in school history books. They were going to push how wonderful the energy business has been to the U.S.

I don't remember any conversation that was about this.

[FunkyTown]

I don't remember any conversation that was about this.

Nor do I. But kudos to him for pointing out that a company did discuss coal in an exclusively positive light.

I still feel that there's not enough information to go on. What age group was this overview for? Did they discuss the downsides of nuclear, wind, solar and hydro power? Was it intended to be a thoughtful discussion, or was it for grade 2 kids saying 'This is where electricity comes from!'

It's important to reduce the corporatization of knowledge. Propaganda is bad. Unfortunately, we have no intelligent information on this particular issue. Panicking on incomplete information seems premature. I'd want to see the lesson plans myself. Any way to find them online, Hoosier?

[pam]

Scholastic Books has pulled these teaching tools due to a conflict of interest.

Controversy Over Scholastic Sponsorships Goes Beyond Coal

[FunkyTown]

Scholastic Books has pulled these teaching tools due to a conflict of interest.

Controversy Over Scholastic Sponsorships Goes Beyond Coal

Yeah. I read that. I'm still not convinced the lesson plan was scrapped over its bias so much as its perceived bias.

As a student who followed the arts, I can honestly say private individuals sponsoring the arts has made a huge difference. Sponsored lesson plans aren't necessarily bad so long as the actual lesson plans aren't decided by corporations. Heck - Boosters have long supported the arts, athletics teams and such. While I disagree with propaganda, I fully endorse and support private individuals sponsoring schools.

Allowing the public to do things like buy school uniforms or new textbooks shows caring within the community.

[pam]

Supporting the arts and booster clubs is much different than a company going into cahoots with a publishing company and passing it off as teaching tools.

My point in bringing up the article was to show the next chapter in HG's post. What ever reason they chose to pull them, they did pull them.