Anti-rape campaign that targets men

[Bini]

I guess I just can't get as excited about an ad campaign as many of the rest of you.

Maybe I just never heard any success stories. Has anyone here ever made a major lifestyle change due to a commercial they saw, or a poster, or an insert in the newspaper? Any crises resolved? Any crossroads in life resolved?

What's the biggest impact y'all have had, due to an advertisement?

I can tell you that I didn't become a LV girl from browsing my local mall.. Commercials, billboards, ads, etc, are powerful things.

[Bini]

So the ad isn't rocket science, big whoop. That doesn't dismiss that it may be thought provoking to "some" males. My aunt was raped by a group of 17-year old boys. My mum told me how her sister was so traumatized after it, that she stopped talking and had to undergo intense therapy. My aunt is in her 50's now and has never been the same. Now, perhaps a poster won't stop a violent rapist but maybe, just maybe, it'll stick in the mind of that one individual that chooses to take action and not be a bystander to a heinous crime. My aunt was raped by 3 boys out of 4. It's unfortunate the other boy just went along with it.

[Vort]

But to suggest the campaign as it stands ONLY furthers feminist idealogy is just evil.

Evil, huh?

I interpreted what you said as that only bad extreme feminists are against rape.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but your interpretation is stupid. You perhaps ought to concentrate a bit more carefully on reading what I write rather than twist it into some absurd, nonsensical shape and then blurt, "That there is how I interpret it."

[MarginOfError]

My point is: If we're trying to educate men not to have sex with drunken women because it's "rape" even if they say "yes" (because they can't legally consent), is it not still rape when women bed drunken men? (Answer: Yes.) Then why isn't that part of the campaign? (Answer: Because the campaign is not about preventing rape; it's about furthering feminist ideology, which denies the very possibility of a female raping a male.)

Yes, Vort. It is always as you see it.

[MarginOfError]

When a manufacturing process is out of control, the first thing quality controllers do is identify the sources of variability. They plot them as a Pareto chart (sample given above) where the bars are arranged left to right in the order of tallest to shortest. They then look at the tallest bar and say "let's tackle that source of variability first." After making adjustments, they reproduce the Pareto chart and begin working on the largest source of variability. In so doing, they do two things

1) they maximize the return on their investments

2) they allow for the possibility that correcting the largest source of variability might have some effect on the smaller sources of variability. (Basic science: only change one thing at a time).

Do women rape men? Yes. Do they do it anywhere near with as much frequency as men rape women? No. Might a campaign targeting men and emphasizing how they can prevent rape also have an effect on women? Yes.

Lastly, just because something is feminist doesn't mean that it is bad.

[FunkyTown]

Vort does raise a good point, however:

Why is it that if a man and woman are both drunk and they have sex, the natural interpretation is that the man is at fault?

Not being a drinker, it won't directly affect me ever, but it is something I wonder about.

Personally, I am uneasy about ads like this. It creates a victimization mentality in women and that's something I can't get behind. I hear women saying that they don't feel safe going out at night, that they feel uneasy on public transportation or when alone at home.

That's a bit of a tangent that has little to do with the ads in general, but is tangential to Vort's point. It almost seems like many of these ads are designed to make women feel helpless. I feel that is a disservice to women in general, and I see the consequences of this victimization culture on a daily basis.

[Suzie]

(Answer: Because the campaign is not about preventing rape; it's about furthering feminist ideology, which denies the very possibility of a female raping a male.)

Non-sense. The campaign is specifically targeting men because of the stereotypes, myths and misinformation about this type of rape (men raping women) that people are accustom hearing/reading about in which usually (directly or indirectly) blames the victim of rape as the primary AND the one responsible for what happened to her. The comments such as "she looked for it! Look at how she dresses!" "What was she doing in a bar at 2:00am??" "She sleeps with everybody!" are quite common.

Nobody is denying the fact that a woman can rape a man. Nobody is denying the fact also that there are many types of rape. This advertisement is just dealing with ONE type.

[MarginOfError]

I guess I just can't get as excited about an ad campaign as many of the rest of you.

Maybe I just never heard any success stories. Has anyone here ever made a major lifestyle change due to a commercial they saw, or a poster, or an insert in the newspaper? Any crises resolved? Any crossroads in life resolved?

Based on a single poster, or a single insert, I would have to say not much. But I can give three specific examples of campaigns that have made a difference.

Growing up, I saw hundreds of posters, commercials, and videos about the importance of buckling your seat belt. As a result, I can probably count on my fingers the number of times a person has entered by vehicle and not automatically reached for their seat belt.

I've seen hundreds of posters, commercials, and videos encouraging me not to smoke cigarettes. I know several people who, as a result of these propaganda, begged their parents to give up smoking (many of whom succeeded) and I know very few people who took up the habit themselves.

I've seen hundreds of posters, commercials, and videos against driving while drunk. Very few people I've known have ever done it, and have looked down upon anyone who has.

Can I point to a single ad in the campaign that made the difference? No. But I can say that the sum of the parts added up to more than their pieces.

[Backroads]

I agree with you, Anne.

My only point was that I didn't find it brilliant. Because it's been done before. I would have found it brilliant if they turned on some lightbulbs and "pushed for more".

It might not be revolutionary, but there is something to be said for repetition.

[prisonchaplain]

My point is: If we're trying to educate men not to have sex with drunken women because it's "rape" even if they say "yes" (because they can't legally consent), is it not still rape when women bed drunken men? (Answer: Yes.) Then why isn't that part of the campaign? (Answer: Because the campaign is not about preventing rape; it's about furthering feminist ideology, which denies the very possibility of a female raping a male.)

The drunken female was one-fourth of the ad. The focus was on encouraging men to be gentlemen. It could even be argued that this call to chivalry harkens back to a less feminist era.

Why the need to pick at our cultural reality (men are far far more likely to coerce to get what they want sexually than women are), and thus deny the needful message against date rape?

[Backroads]

Being against raping women in no way implies that the ads are ok with men being raped. In fact it did address male rape of males. Ok so encourage them to make another ad specifically against women raping men. No big deal to do that and cover all adults. Now how about raping children or teens?

Any ad encouraging and informing people of what is rape is good.

Lets cheer for the positive and push for more. :)

Indeed and well-said.

We could ask them to create ads about every imaginable type of rape.

BUT the wording and the slogan suggests this is merely a male-focused campaign. Doesn't mean the organization are supportive of women raping people. They just chose to focus on a specific problem.

And in consideration that in practicum I would only be seeing on of these posters at a time, I highly doubt my first thought would be feminist ideology.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Backroads

[prisonchaplain]

Has anyone here ever made a major lifestyle change due to a commercial they saw, or a poster, or an insert in the newspaper? Any crises resolved? Any crossroads in life resolved?

What's the biggest impact y'all have had, due to an advertisement?

YES, absolutely YES! The Anti-smoking campaign that began in the 60s took a generation to take hold. Today, smoke in public and be prepared for unkind rebukes. You'll get more love in a church/ward than you will at a bus stop, if you light up.

When I was a kid it was not this way. Smokers looked at you like you were a wimp, an idiot, and a socialist if you suggested they please not light up in front of your kids.

BTW, the same effects are happening in some parts of Asia--and smoking there was even more prolific than here.

You may not find an instant conversion, but these campaigns can build momentum, and over time change public attitudes.

[prisonchaplain]

Nobody is denying the fact that a woman can rape a man. Nobody is denying the fact also that there are many types of rape. This advertisement is just dealing with ONE type.

And that one type likely represents well over 90% of incidences.

[Backroads]

And no, feminist ideology is not only supported by feminists - they're supported by non-feminists as well - doesn't stop it from being a feminist ideology... make sense?

EDIT: Statement wasn't fair.

I'm not sure what you mean by this; so, no, it doesn't make sense. Are you saying the feminist idealogy is that rape is bad or is it that women never rape?

Edited January 5, 2012 by Backroads

[Dravin]

So rape was morally okay until the feminist revolution?

Something tells me that you're missing what is being termed feminist ideology by Anatass. The feminist ideology in question (I'm interpreting, don't shoot the messenger) is that only men rape, not that rape is bad.

[Backroads]

Which is why I edited my post, if you would like to see above. It wasn't the statement I wanted to fairly make.

In the post to which anatess replied, I asked if only feminists saw the situations mentioned in the ads as bad. I was confused by her reply and can't tell if those situations were bad by the nature of them or only because feminists have said so.

[Guest]

Which is why I edited my post, if you would like to see above. It wasn't the statement I wanted to fairly make.

In the post to which anatess replied, I asked if only feminists saw the situations mentioned in the ads as bad. I was confused by her reply and can't tell if those situations were bad by the nature of them or only because feminists have said so.

It has nothing to do with what is good or bad. It has something to do with gender bias. The ad - and I never said it is bad, only that it isn't brilliant - is gender biased to the feminist side.

[Guest]

And that one type likely represents well over 90% of incidences.

If the gay couple was not in the ad, I would unequivocably agree with you. But, gay rape is only 3% of all rape (I don't have a link to the exact statistical evidence, but if you really need it, I'll go look it up) yet they felt inclined to include it in the ad. So, it slightly skews the message to give the impression that only males rape... which is the origin of the "feminist ideology" comment.

[RescueMom]

How about this...

Not only women get raped, they are however the majority. But men can get raped, not just by women but by men. And children can get raped.

This poster is a step in the right direction in making people, yes it is targeting men here, but making people take responsibility for their own sexual actions. That if a person is drunk, or wearing a tank top, or running around in diapers, or has cute pecks, or whatever...it gives no one the right to rape them. period.

And if that is a feminist idea...then it's a good idea. I have to guess it's also a Christ like idea.

[prisonchaplain]

If the gay couple was not in the ad, I would unequivocably agree with you. But, gay rape is only 3% of all rape (I don't have a link to the exact statistical evidence, but if you really need it, I'll go look it up) yet they felt inclined to include it in the ad. So, it slightly skews the message to give the impression that only males rape... which is the origin of the "feminist ideology" comment.

It is a bit odd that they included the male rape of males, but I still do not see this as a feminist ad. My guess is that the thinking went like this:

Let's do an add campaign to discourage date rape.

Great idea. Let's see, there's direct coercion.

Yes, good!

Sometimes guys take advantage when the woman gets drunk.

Right. Sometimes they even plan it.

Then there are those jerks who think that just because they buy a girl dinner they can have their way.

Yeah--what losers!

Hey...let's be real forward thinking here, and mention gay date rape.

Not bad--let's go for it.

END OF PLANNNING...

Seriously, I think they were trying to be cool, hip, "with it" by including the gay angle. It may be only 3%, but it's a high-profile group. Men victimized by their female dates--it happens--it may be higher than 3%--but it's not the group people tend to think of.

I still remember a crime show I saw many years ago. The guy agreed to some "games" with his date. However, when he demanded she stop, she considered it just more of the game and did not.

He decided to press charges, and the end result was his lawyer convincing him that no jury would take him seriously, and he should be happy with a plea agreement to something like the lowest level of negligent assault.

Realistically, the target audience 90%+ of the time is heterosexual men. That's not a feminist bias, it's statistical reality.

[Guest]

It is a bit odd that they included the male rape of males, but I still do not see this as a feminist ad. My guess is that the thinking went like this:

Let's do an add campaign to discourage date rape.

Great idea. Let's see, there's direct coercion.

Yes, good!

Sometimes guys take advantage when the woman gets drunk.

Right. Sometimes they even plan it.

Then there are those jerks who think that just because they buy a girl dinner they can have their way.

Yeah--what losers!

Hey...let's be real forward thinking here, and mention gay date rape.

Not bad--let's go for it.

END OF PLANNNING...

Seriously, I think they were trying to be cool, hip, "with it" by including the gay angle. It may be only 3%, but it's a high-profile group. Men victimized by their female dates--it happens--it may be higher than 3%--but it's not the group people tend to think of.

I still remember a crime show I saw many years ago. The guy agreed to some "games" with his date. However, when he demanded she stop, she considered it just more of the game and did not.

He decided to press charges, and the end result was his lawyer convincing him that no jury would take him seriously, and he should be happy with a plea agreement to something like the lowest level of negligent assault.

Realistically, the target audience 90%+ of the time is heterosexual men. That's not a feminist bias, it's statistical reality.

And hence the need for a brilliant ad! What's a brilliant ad for but to bring something that people are not generally aware of to light - not bring to light something everybody already knows! The STOP-WHEN-SHE-SAYS-NO has been hashed and rehashed before hence people of dating age are already aware of it in some form or the other.

Sure, Budweiser has been in existence for decades and every year they come up with a new ad... but, Budweiser is Budweiser, there's only so many new things you can say about it that people may not be aware of. The LDS Church, on the other hand - the mormon.org campaign is brilliant - it's something people may not know about us Mormons.

Then we can solve the problem of juries not taking a man-crying-rape-against-a-woman seriously giving more teeth to consequences of rape to women and not just men... because, you can always sue a guy for rape and juries will take it seriously.

I mean - it's so crazily un-messaged that you find idiots suing Justin Beiber for paternity without any awareness whatsoever that that's statury rape! Because - who thinks of statury rape when it's a guy getting raped?

Can you get a little glimmer of what I'm trying to say here? I feel like I'm not expressing myself too clearly.

Edited January 5, 2012 by anatess

[prisonchaplain]

I'm not sure I agree. By the early 70s most knew that smoking was bad for health. The brilliantly repetitive anti-smoking ads did not change awareness, but rathered nudged society towards a consensus against smoking in public.

Likewise, if these ads begin to move us towards viewing date rape is criminal and despicable, rather than a matter of miscommunication and "boys being boys," then it will earn the label brilliant.

[Backroads]

The problem is, anatess, is that while YOU may know date rape is bad, there are plenty of teenagers who don't. Or, that's it's not a big deal. The Chaplain is correct. The logic might be there, but the consensus still points in the other direction.

[Guest]

I'm not sure I agree. By the early 70s most knew that smoking was bad for health. The brilliantly repetitive anti-smoking ads did not change awareness, but rathered nudged society towards a consensus against smoking in public.

Likewise, if these ads begin to move us towards viewing date rape is criminal and despicable, rather than a matter of miscommunication and "boys being boys," then it will earn the label brilliant.

There's nothing in smoking that is not addressed by the ads though. The ads were never biased towards any demographic. But... if you remember, the new ads about the effects on smoking on the lungs was brilliant - because, it shows something that people may not know about smoking.

Yes, based on your responses, I don't think I'm expressing myself clearly because I don't think you get what I'm saying at all.

My point was merely that the ad is not brilliant because once again, like the jillion ad campaigns before it, it is still gender biased. I keep on waiting for that ad that validates that guy's experiences with getting raped by several women - or that scenario you presented about a guy having to drop a case because the jury will never take it... but, they NEVER come! When I saw the gay picture, I thought - see, they show that one, completely solidifying the gender bias. It's very frustrating.

Edited January 5, 2012 by anatess

[Backroads]

okay, anatess, is this what you're saying?

Create an psa movement that addresses the cruelty of rape in its entirity.

I think the communication problem is that some of us are interpreting your words as downplaying the severity of what these ads do mention.