prisonchaplain Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 When I came here in '05 my knowledge of LDS teaching and thought was typical of evangelicals. I'd seen the notorious Decker movie, and its sequel. I had read a few criticisms by folks like Walter Martin. Yet, my concerns were doctrinal, not personal. Probably one of the biggest myths I hear LDS believe that evangelicals believe is the allegation that you worship Joseph Smith, or replace Jesus with Joseph Smith, or just give him way too much reverence. So here's my expose...my revelation...you don't. In posts I've read, now counting in the many 1000s, I have observed the occasional reference to his non-canonical writings, but more often than not to either offer insight, or to remind critics that not everything he said was doctrinal. I'm not sure how many evangelicals really believe this particular myth. It was not on my radar screen when I came. However, from my humble observations here, I can say that LDS do not worship or fixate on Joseph Smith--at least not here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I appreciate your insights, PC. Mostly, I appreciate your willingness to judge us for what we actually teach, say, and do, rather than for what Ed Decker and his ilk claim we teach, say, and do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezebel2011 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Before I was am investigator I thought that the LDS Church used the BoM and nothing else in the way of Scriptures! When I first started to investigate the LDS Church the most astonishing thing to me was they didn't! I did mention it to the Bishop whilst the missionaries were present, for them to take that point on board when recruiting members, since it is a point that could well have put folks off. On discussing the Church with non-Mormon friends I discovered that they thought the same thing too. That's maybe why folks think we are more than a little odd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 When I came here in '05 my knowledge of LDS teaching and thought was typical of evangelicals. I'd seen the notorious Decker movie, and its sequel. I had read a few criticisms by folks like Walter Martin. Yet, my concerns were doctrinal, not personal.Probably one of the biggest myths I hear LDS believe that evangelicals believe is the allegation that you worship Joseph Smith, or replace Jesus with Joseph Smith, or just give him way too much reverence.So here's my expose...my revelation...you don't. In posts I've read, now counting in the many 1000s, I have observed the occasional reference to his non-canonical writings, but more often than not to either offer insight, or to remind critics that not everything he said was doctrinal.I'm not sure how many evangelicals really believe this particular myth. It was not on my radar screen when I came. However, from my humble observations here, I can say that LDS do not worship or fixate on Joseph Smith--at least not here. Your post reminds me of the little boy that returned home from his first day at school with a note pined to him. The mother looked at the note and it said, "I promise not to believe everything your boy says happens at home if you promise not to believe everything he says that happened at school".Thank you so much for coming and posting on the forum. Not because I agree with your doctrine - because I agree with your attitude -- 100%. And if the truth be known - I do not need to discuss anything with someone of my same opinion.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Before I was am investigator I thought that the LDS Church used the BoM and nothing else in the way of Scriptures!When I first started to investigate the LDS Church the most astonishing thing to me was they didn't!I did mention it to the Bishop whilst the missionaries were present, for them to take that point on board when recruiting members, since it is a point that could well have put folks off.On discussing the Church with non-Mormon friends I discovered that they thought the same thing too. That's maybe why folks think we are more than a little odd?Interesting how we view "outsiders". When I went off to serve in the military my grandmother (my family is pioneer stock) warned me not to tell anyone I was "Mormon" - she feared that during combat one of my good Christian comrades would shoot me in the back.The truth is that we are most likely to learn to love those we "serve" with than to despise them - that is why I think Jesus asked us to love our enemies - not just in words but honest actions.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 However, from my humble observations here, I can say that LDS do not worship or fixate on Joseph Smith--at least not here. We're (Joseph Smith) glad (Joseph Smith) you (Joseph Smith) think (Joseph Smith) so (Joseph Smith). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Probably one of the biggest myths I hear LDS believe that evangelicals believe is the allegation that you worship Joseph Smith, or replace Jesus with Joseph Smith, or just give him way too much reverence.Thank you, PC. I did want to clarify something. We certainly don't worship Joseph Smith, nor do we put him on the same level as Jesus Christ. We do, however, revere him as instrumental in restoring God's word and church on the earth again.Missionaries, will teach and testify about Joseph Smith. One of the questions in the baptismal interview (the discussion between the potential member and either the missionary, mission president, or bishop prior to baptism) is about Joseph Smith--does he/she believe that he was the prophet who restored the Lord's true church? I don't remember the exact wording of the question, but it is essential that one have at least a smidgen of a testimony of Joseph Smith before one is baptised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 We're (Joseph Smith) glad (Joseph Smith) you (Joseph Smith) think (Joseph Smith) so (Joseph Smith).I'll have to reconsider my OP. Silly me, I figured all the J.S. subliminals meant "Jesus Saves!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thank you, PC. I did want to clarify something. We certainly don't worship Joseph Smith, nor do we put him on the same level as Jesus Christ. We do, however, revere him as instrumental in restoring God's word and church on the earth again.Missionaries, will teach and testify about Joseph Smith. One of the questions in the baptismal interview (the discussion between the potential member and either the missionary, mission president, or bishop prior to baptism) is about Joseph Smith--does he/she believe that he was the prophet who restored the Lord's true church? I don't remember the exact wording of the question, but it is essential that one have at least a smidgen of a testimony of Joseph Smith before one is baptised.Someone explained to me that Joseph Smith is revered much as the Israelites honored their prophets. It makes sense. I cannot imagine an observant Jew who does not have spiritual confidence that Moses was a prophet of God, who brought God-inspired guidance, through his words and writings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 When I came here in '05 my knowledge of LDS teaching and thought was typical of evangelicals. I'd seen the notorious Decker movie, and its sequel. I had read a few criticisms by folks like Walter Martin. Yet, my concerns were doctrinal, not personal.Probably one of the biggest myths I hear LDS believe that evangelicals believe is the allegation that you worship Joseph Smith, or replace Jesus with Joseph Smith, or just give him way too much reverence.So here's my expose...my revelation...you don't. In posts I've read, now counting in the many 1000s, I have observed the occasional reference to his non-canonical writings, but more often than not to either offer insight, or to remind critics that not everything he said was doctrinal.I'm not sure how many evangelicals really believe this particular myth. It was not on my radar screen when I came. However, from my humble observations here, I can say that LDS do not worship or fixate on Joseph Smith--at least not here. Thanks PC...appreciate your comments and opinion.....you mentioned Wally Martin...have not heard his name mentioned for quite awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Well, he did pass away quite some time ago...I believe the book I read was published in the 60s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly200 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Having grown up SBC, I have to say that in our church no one said very much about Mormons at all. We knew about Joseph Smith, but I never thought the LDS worshiped him. Revered him too much, sure. We were taught that. But the SBC is afraid of anyone saying anything nice about anyone other than Jesus, pretty much. :) However, I have heard in my... well, not mine anymore, now it's my mom's... SBC church that Muslims worship Muhammed and Catholics worship the pope. Hmm... Someone should clear that up with the pastor, since he's going around telling his hundreds of congregants lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 When I came here in '05 my knowledge of LDS teaching and thought was typical of evangelicals. I'd seen the notorious Decker movie, and its sequel. I had read a few criticisms by folks like Walter Martin. Yet, my concerns were doctrinal, not personal.Probably one of the biggest myths I hear LDS believe that evangelicals believe is the allegation that you worship Joseph Smith, or replace Jesus with Joseph Smith, or just give him way too much reverence.So here's my expose...my revelation...you don't. In posts I've read, now counting in the many 1000s, I have observed the occasional reference to his non-canonical writings, but more often than not to either offer insight, or to remind critics that not everything he said was doctrinal.I'm not sure how many evangelicals really believe this particular myth. It was not on my radar screen when I came. However, from my humble observations here, I can say that LDS do not worship or fixate on Joseph Smith--at least not here. Thank you for sharing this, i really wish more folks would understand this.Well there are probably some that revere him so much thatd he be turning in his grave... However my rule of thumb in observing others is, who do they pray to, and how often so they do so. And my rule of thumb for a personal indicator, is what do i think of most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Well, he did pass away quite some time ago...I believe the book I read was published in the 60s.I knew he passed away some time ago..... just not heard his name mentioned for quite sometime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipplecutBuddha Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Something Ronald Regan said pertains to this. "Truth is a stubborn thing." I think it's part of why we don't get too wrapped up in what others may/may not think of us as well as what they believe regarding us. The interesting thing is that I think it applies to Christianity in general. Every denomination (including the non-denominational groups) differ in some way or another in doctrinal matters. The truth is...none of it is of immediate consequence really. All of Christianity worships Jesus as Lord and Savior, and that's the most important ingredient anyway. What I wish is that we spent more time rejoicing in our commonality than poking each other over differences that a) won't be resolved any time soon so long as we have to operate on faith. and b) shouldn't affect how we treat each other anyway since Jesus' Gospel was based upon love for fellow man no matter what. It's an amazing experience exploing other faiths and learning about different religious traditions. Most of the time they can be faith-building events for all involved. So long as respect, patience, and clear communication are parts of it, nothing but good can come of it. Hopefully we can cut out most of the discussions lacking these things, since all they breed are hatred, misunderstanding, and division. Edited January 8, 2012 by RipplecutBuddha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Well, if we are worshiping Joseph Smith, we are doing a really bad job of it. I mean, all of our prayers are addressed to Our Father and said in the name of Jesus Christ. In fact, all of our sacraments (ordinances) are done in the name of Jesus Christ or in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahonri Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 While we don't worship the Prophet Joseph, I have learned that truly, the only way we will ever come TO KNOW our SAVIOR again, is to come to know Joseph Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Having grown up SBC, I have to say that in our church no one said very much about Mormons at all. We knew about Joseph Smith, but I never thought the LDS worshiped him. Revered him too much, sure. We were taught that. But the SBC is afraid of anyone saying anything nice about anyone other than Jesus, pretty much. :)However, I have heard in my... well, not mine anymore, now it's my mom's... SBC church that Muslims worship Muhammed and Catholics worship the pope. Hmm... Someone should clear that up with the pastor, since he's going around telling his hundreds of congregants lies.I like reading your posts and would like to comment more but life is not always about doing what we want. Your last statement:Someone should clear that up with the pastor, since he's going around telling his hundreds of congregants lies.caught my attention and reminded me of a quote from the Steinfelt (apology for spelling) TV comedy where George when confronted with inaccurate statements responded with something like: "It is no a lie if you really believe it." Going along with this sometimes we think something to be a lie just because we do not believe it.I started a thread a while back about what we each consider as worship. What I found interesting is that a person could be involved in the exact same kind of responses of respect and because one time was in respect for what they think is G-d - then that is worship. But when doing the same thing associated with other lesser powerful individuals - then it really was not worship. For example love. If love is part of your worship of G-d - why is loving others not also a form of worship of others?And so many times word games are played in efforts to justify truth ourselves while at the same time condemn what is true to others as a lie -- which is far easier than just being a good example of what is good, true and right.The Traveler Edited January 8, 2012 by Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted January 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Sometimes we pastors get lazy. We think we know a group is sufficiently wrong. It is theologically dangerous in our eyes. Thus, we accept and sometimes pass along any accusation or claim we run across. Or, we simply mangle something we read years ago. The key is that we permit ourselves this sloth because we figure the group is surely false, so any warning is good, even if it is not quite accurate. When we do this we are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 · Hidden Hidden I'm not sure how many evangelicals really believe this particular myth. It was not on my radar screen when I came. However, from my humble observations here, I can say that LDS do not worship or fixate on Joseph Smith--at least not here. Of course we don't worship Joseph Smith. He's been dead too long. We now worship Mitt Romney! Link to comment
rameumptom Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Someone explained to me that Joseph Smith is revered much as the Israelites honored their prophets. It makes sense. I cannot imagine an observant Jew who does not have spiritual confidence that Moses was a prophet of God, who brought God-inspired guidance, through his words and writings.This is true. However, we do not honor him as much as Catholics honor their saints. But then, the view is different in that they believe the saints can help them gain access to blessings.Could we perhaps have you go on a few national television shows and explain to the unwashed masses what Mormon really believe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Shelly, Sadly, there are many Christian Churches, including many in the SBC, who do not mind using false or wrong concepts to malign other religions. Many of these actually will have a few weeks a year where they talk about "cults" and evil churches. Depending on the pastor, this will always include Mormons, and sometimes include Catholics. For some reason, many think that Catholicism is evil and anti-Christ, and I think that is entirely wrong-headed. And whenever I hear a Mormon make that claim, I make certain they understand I disagree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 This is true. However, we do not honor him as much as Catholics honor their saints. But then, the view is different in that they believe the saints can help them gain access to blessings.Actually, I would argue that through the efforts of the Prophet Joseph Smith, we have gained access to a great many blessings. We do indeed honor Joseph Smith as the greatest prophet of the dispensation of the fullness of times. It's not for nothing that we have "Praise to the Man" as one of our Church hymns.But your larger point is correct. We do not worship or pray to Joseph Smith or expect he will act as an intercessory in any sense as the Catholics view Mary and the Catholic Saints. Joseph, great as he was, was a mortal man afflicted with the sin and vicissitudes common to mortal men, and we do not worship or pray to any mortal man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 This is true. However, we do not honor him as much as Catholics honor their saints. But then, the view is different in that they believe the saints can help them gain access to blessings.Could we perhaps have you go on a few national television shows and explain to the unwashed masses what Mormon really believe? Perhaps it is us that need enlightenment to better understand others and compare the good that they seek to that which we seek. That Catholics honor their saints for the good they did is not, in my mind to be ridiculed any more than when LDS sing the hymn “Praise to the Man” - in particular the words “Mingling with G-ds he can plain for his brethren”. Let us rather rejoice in reorganization of good - it is quite likely that many of those Catholic saints are already currently numbered as saints among us and not against us. Let us show the way rather than expect others to do it for us and thank and honor everyone for sharing their sacred understandings with us. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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