Education: Public or Private?

[Backroads]

The spouse and I discussed this for a good hour this morning.

Would there be any benefit to completely doing away with the whole USA public education system as it stands and privatizing education?

I personally like the idea of public education. It allows everyone the opportunity to be educated regardless of personal wealth. Sure, it has flaws, but I think it would be better to fix those than turn to a system where your ability to pay determined whether or not your child gets an education).

Husband thinks a free market education system would allow parents to pick the particulars of their child's education and find a school that meets with their values. He also believes various charities would pick up the tab on those families that simply don't have the money.

Thoughts?

[bytor2112]

My kids went elementary thru middle school at a Charter School and now attend public high school. I like the Charter School model and would have sent my kids to private school if there were any where I live and I agree with your husband. I am also for School choice.........and vouchers.

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

I think going more towards privatization is best. But I'd also agree that everyone should have the opportunity to have an education, so there could be voucher programs and scholarships and such so you don't have to pay much if anything out of pocket (for a "regular" school anyway).

[Backroads]

I'm actually a big fan of vouchers, but I doubt with complete privatization of schools there would be any government funding to give to anyone. Now, I'm all for the power of charity, but there is no guarantee that would be available for every child who needs it. My fear is the system would boil down to two classes: those who can afford to go to school and those who can't. I suppose that would open up the question if official education is a right.

As for everyone having the opportunity, under a private system, everyone technically does the same opportunity for education--they just have to be able to afford it.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Backroads

[annewandering]

There is a reason for our government insisting kids get an education. It levels the playing field for all kids. Education as it stands now has definite problems but it does allow all kids to get an education.

If it were on the same type of system as colleges, namely voluntary and hit and miss on availability, we would have the same kind of diversity in the lower grades as we now have in college: some getting an education and a lot not getting any education at all. Can we afford that in our economic world any more?

Should kids be punished for the rest of their lives because of their parents economic status? At least now, with public schools they do have a chance to rise above their parents economic status, slim though that may be at times.

Private education is going to do the same it does now. Go after the most wealthy and the most intelligent children. So what about those kids with an IQ of 90? They are smart enough to have a decent life but they are certainly not going to be a Noble prize winner or a brilliant CEO. No private school will want them because they will drag their stats down. So who is going to educate them? Or do we just put them on welfare or mental disability? Or do we develop an underclass of uneducated serfs who clean toilets with no chance of anything better?

We need public education to keep our capitalistic system fair game for everyone not just a select few, chosen from an already privileged class.

Education is not a right, it is a responsibility of our society to provide to KEEP the society we have going. Without a all encompassing education system our society will fail.

Edited January 29, 2012 by annewandering

[NeuroTypical]

As y'all argue back and forth and try to set up the best thing, maybe you'll consider giving us homeschoolers a tax credit or voucher or something. Because even though we spend far less per student than you guys, it's all out of our own pockets.

[Blocky]

As y'all argue back and forth and try to set up the best thing, maybe you'll consider giving us homeschoolers a tax credit or voucher or something. Because even though we spend far less per student than you guys, it's all out of our own pockets.

We do home school through a charter school. Basically we get to do school the way we want and pick our own curriculum and they give us $900 a semester. It's not a free pass with the money. We don't actually get the cash, we have our liaison from the school order things for us. I spend most of it on music lessons and art supplies. We also meet with our liaison every 20 school days and tell her what we've been up to.

Sometimes I resent the check ins and occasional testing, but I figure, I can always un-enroll from the charter school.

[lizzy16]

I've had a REALLY amazing education. I went to a charter school k-4th and then for middle and HS went to a public highschool. My HS was an amazing school. And, I really believe I've gotten a top quality education.

And, now I'm going to an amazing college :)

I think public education is great, however our system needs reworked. Instead of 'state standards" we need "nation standards." My HS in NY was above NY state standards..and NY education is already one of the best in the USA.

Going to college with people who went to crappy schools reminds me how blessed I was.

Public education is great for leveling out the playing field, giving everyone the ability to rise above yada yada. However, some inner city schools just really frickin' suck.

I'd rather have all private and everyone be at the same level then how it is now.

[bytor2112]

I am opposed to home schooling.....

[beefche]

I am opposed to home schooling.....

Why?

[annewandering]

Home schooling well is a very hard, challenging job but if done right it can be the very best education a person can get. I would never do it again since I will never be a good teacher but there are a lot of exceptional people out there that should have every support in home schooling their children.

[bytor2112]

Why?

I wouldn't want to prevent anyone from choosing to home school. I think that the average parent doesn't have the skill set to pull it off successfully and I also think kids need the socialization.

[Jenamarie]

I wouldn't want to prevent anyone from choosing to home school. I think that the average parent doesn't have the skill set to pull it off successfully and I also think kids need the socialization.

What kind of socialization do you believe is only attainable through public school, and not through being home with family, or playing with neighbors, or participating in youth sports, or church, or Scouts, or other extra-curricular activities?

[Backroads]

I'd rather have all private and everyone be at the same level then how it is now.

But all-private education wouldn't put everyone at the same level. Some schools would still continue to be better than others. Private school does not necessarily equal a good school. And all the private schools would expect money in order to run their schools. Ideally, it would end up with the expensive schools providing the good education while the cheaper schools provide the lousy education.

And what of those who simply can't afford to pay for any schooling? In that case, I could see where homeschooling would be a boon, but you would still have the possibility of a poor education.

[bytor2112]

What kind of socialization do you believe is only attainable through public school, and not through being home with family, or playing with neighbors, or participating in youth sports, or church, or Scouts, or other extra-curricular activities?

The kind they get at school and note, I didn't say only attainable in school. Not all kids that are home schooled, participate in youth sports, attend church or scouts or other extra curricular activities.

I have limited experience with home school kids admittedly, but the ones that I have met are lacking in so many ways. that has likely colored my opinion somewhat. My wife has been in education for over 20 years as a teacher, an administrator , written Algebra text books for Alberta and Brittish Columbia and worked as a private consultant to Title I schools and is not a fan of home schooling and has said adamantly that she would not have attempted it with our children. Same goes with my mother in law with over 40 years of education experience.

As for socialization, well, they get a broad cross section of life in school, good and bad. They are exposed to racial diversity, both the good and bad and various cross sections of society from bullies to prima donas. They learn to adapt and get along and survive. JMO.....

Edited January 29, 2012 by bytor2112

[annewandering]

I have seen kids here ostersized by other kids at school when they are home schooled. Supposedly they can get social contact at church functions but they dont. Hardly anyone will talk to them because they dont know them from school. Its wrong but its a true problem.

[annewandering]

Probably the number one group of people against homeschooling are teachers and admins of schools. Is it any wonder when their whole life has been dedicated to education within the system? Somehow I dont think those people are the best to ask if homeschooling is good.

Have you noticed that the National Spelling Bee champs are almost always homeschooled? From what I have seen these kids also tend to score very highly on standardized tests. They get nearly one to one contact with their teacher for help understanding. All the homeschoolers I know have used a variety of sources for their materials including internet and local homeschooling sources. Also they have support groups to help them out. Some areas have sources within the schools for materials and testing. Idaho has an online computer school set up, free, for homeschooling. Resources and support are out there if you look and most parents doing this do look hard for help. Very few take this upon themselves lightly.

[Jenamarie]

The kind they get at school and note, I didn't say only attainable in school. Not all kids that are home schooled, participate in youth sports, attend church or scouts or other extra curricular activities.

I have limited experience with home school kids admittedly, but the ones that I have met are lacking in so many ways. that has likely colored my opinion somewhat. My wife has been in education for over 20 years as a teacher, an administrator , written Algebra text books for Alberta and Brittish Columbia and worked as a private consultant to Title I schools and is not a fan of home schooling and has said adamantly that she would not have attempted it with our children. Same goes with my mother in law with over 40 years of education experience.

As for socialization, well, they get a broad cross section of life in school, good and bad. They are exposed to racial diversity, both the good and bad and various cross sections of society from bullies to prima donas. They learn to adapt and get along and survive. JMO.....

But are those kids "lacking" in social skills (I assume that's what you're saying they're lacking) because of being home schooled, or where they being home schooled because they were having a difficult time picking up social skills, perhaps due to Aspergers, or just natural shyness? I mean certainly, from my own experience, it's not unheard of to have kids come out of public schools lacking in the social skills department. Some people just seem to be naturally "awkward".

I have a dear friend who home schools her son with Aspergers because he was just being pounded by his classmates. They would *not* accept him as he was: a socially awkward kid with a deep love for Star Wars. He's since begun to thrive being home schooled by his mom, and is beginning to gain more confidence in himself, but he still comes across as "socially awkward", even though he's better than he used to be.

[bytor2112]

No...they were lacking because there parents did horrible as home school parents. I know that this is a "hot" issue, my kids are in 11th and 12th grade and have done well in their environment. I applaud anyone that does all that is necessary to properly educate their kids through home schooling. For me...just not a fan.....

Note: I abhor the "education system" in our country, it is very broken. I abhor the Teachers Unions and frankly think that we need some serious change in our country. Requiring a kid to graduate Geometry to graduate or is it Algebra II and telling these kids that they all need to go to College??? No wonder so many people are loaded with education debt, have walls of degrees but no job. We have cheapened a bachelors degree to the point that it is near meaningless and we have stigmatized blue collar jobs like plumbing or being an electrician or learning a trade. What can a kid do out of high school...flip burgers, sell drugs? Attend the local college and take, yet some more, English and Algebra and history, etc...that they had been taking during high school. I know, lots of kids take dual enrolled or AP....but not all, nor should they.

Edited January 29, 2012 by bytor2112

[Backroads]

Note: I abhor the "education system" in our country, it is very broken. I abhor the Teachers Unions and frankly think that we need some serious change in our country. Requiring a kid to graduate Geometry to graduate or is it Algebra II and telling these kids that they all need to go to College??? No wonder so many people are loaded with education debt, have walls of degrees but no job. We have cheapened a bachelors degree to the point that it is near meaningless and we have stigmatized blue collar jobs like plumbing or being an electrician or learning a trade. What can a kid do out of high school...flip burgers, sell drugs? Attend the local college and take, yet some more, English and Algebra and history, etc...that they had been taking during high school. I know, lots of kids take dual enrolled or AP....but not all, nor should they.

My husband's point is that with a completely privatized education system individuals could get the education they want; if they find one school is broken, they go to another one. Which is a wonderful idea... I guess I just have to ask about those who can't pay for privatized school yet have no other option.

I agree you about the blue-collar jobs. I wish we could back apprenticeships back in vogue...

[annewandering]

Our district has a rather amazing system as far as tech skills go. Kids can do the AP classes and/or tech skills or just general classes. The tech classes are in a district building for the county. It includes health fields, mechanical skills, carpentry skills, etc. They really do have it pretty well covered. The costs are lower since it is centered in one area and all schools have access with busing included.

When they started it up I feared it would undermine the academic side but it doesnt seem to have done that at all.

Since Idaho has an internet school that anyone can attend instead of regular school there really isnt any reason for home school kids to not have access to all they need. Home school kids can also access the tech school so they dont lack there.

We were at one school in california that had an interesting philosophy on what they called independant study or in other words home schooling. Any kid they saw as a potential problem they got rid of by putting them on independant studies so they didnt affect the schools stats. It was amazing how their stats improved. Of course they never did address the problems the school had with how they taught at least until they were investigated by the state for irregularities.

[Blackmarch]

The spouse and I discussed this for a good hour this morning.

Would there be any benefit to completely doing away with the whole USA public education system as it stands and privatizing education?

I personally like the idea of public education. It allows everyone the opportunity to be educated regardless of personal wealth. Sure, it has flaws, but I think it would be better to fix those than turn to a system where your ability to pay determined whether or not your child gets an education).

Husband thinks a free market education system would allow parents to pick the particulars of their child's education and find a school that meets with their values. He also believes various charities would pick up the tab on those families that simply don't have the money.

Thoughts?

Both are legitamate forms if done right.

[Bini]

I've only known private schooling, except for the last couple years of highschool when my family moved from Asia to a small town in Utah, which didn't offer private schooling. I would like my daughter to attend private schooling but at this point, we haven't researched what's available and what our options are locally. I won't be devastated if it's a no-go but for now, I have my fingers crossed.

As for homeschooling, I would agree that MOST parents are not equipped to handle it. I have a good friend that is a special education teacher (20+ years) and says that although she mainly works with children with developmental disabilities, she does a lot of "catch-up" work with students that were homeschooled and are academically behind. As far as homeschooled kids not being socialised as well, maybe they are and maybe they're not. But certainly there are elements of socialisation they miss out on when being homeschooled versus attending school with peers.

[Vort]

I am opposed to home schooling.....

The ignorant will never become educated until they allow themselves to see what is there to be seen.

[bytor2112]

The ignorant will never become educated until they allow themselves to see what is there to be seen.

Wait....are you calling me ignorant?